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Legendary Ptarmigan posted:If you're generally aware of the Primarchs and Malcador the Sigilite, I think you'll probably be fine. Outside of one of their captains Nathaniel Garro (who's a loyalist who splits from the legion in the first hundred pages of book 4 of the whole series), I'm pretty sure that the Death Guard don't feature heavily in any of the big recurring Heresy arcs in such a way that you'll be missing key details of character development or anything. I really don't know squat about the lore other than very specific things I've picked up from the few codices I've thumbed through (namely DG and Thousand Sons and Orks). Beyond that, my comprehensions of 40K lore is effectively "There is the Emperor who has too many kids and his favorite kid tried to kill him, and now there is only war". I know tidbits about some of the Primarchs, mostly from listening to the Badcast and that's about it 
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Aug 17, 2020 13:26
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Sab669 posted:There was some chat a few pages ago about the ridiculous 50+ Horus Heresy novels and such. I see #54 is about Morty and the Death Guard so I wanna check it out, but how lost would I be if I haven't read a single book before it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyPjE1Sn-Ts This 3 part series, which, admittedly is like 4 hours long, is a really good overview of the events of the 31st millennium. You'll get to know the Emperor, Malcador, Horus, the Word Bearers, etc. pretty well from it. edit-- all of Luetin's lore videos are very good even if they're pretty long.
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Aug 17, 2020 14:00
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Sweet. Long is good because I want something to listen to while painting. Thanks.
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Aug 17, 2020 14:02
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Sab669 posted:There was some chat a few pages ago about the ridiculous 50+ Horus Heresy novels and such. I see #54 is about Morty and the Death Guard so I wanna check it out, but how lost would I be if I haven't read a single book before it? With Death Guard you should be 100% fine to just jump in. They didnt get featured much at all in the HH series, and when they did, they didnt do much. I think they mainly feature in Flight of the Eisenstein and the White Scars books. Other than that, nothing, and you don't get much of them there either.
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Aug 17, 2020 14:07
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Cross post from the mini painting thread. Imgur is being weird, so if you click through the the full gallery the picture will look rotated, but if you click on it to see full size it should be proper orientation. Werix posted:Well I don't know why IMGUR is being all stupid and uploading stuff sideways, but I didn't work this hard not to share my work.
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Aug 17, 2020 16:00
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Aug 17, 2020 16:47
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Absolutely fake but funny. The weapon stat changes would be incredible I would love a modern Carnifex kit though.
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Aug 17, 2020 17:01
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I painted some retributors and wanted to use some of the Tesseract paint. Now looking forward to +2 mm and 2w heavy bolters. http://imgur.com/gallery/ek1BMba MRLOLAST fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Aug 17, 2020 |
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Aug 17, 2020 18:08
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Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but anyone know how the margins are for GW products at non-GW stores? Trying to figure out how to help keep my FLGS open without being into TCGs. I like painting tiny mans and a lot of GW models are pretty neat, but I have no desire to actually play the games they're from. Does me paying MSRP for them actually help the shop pay the bills or should I stick to other products with that in mind?
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Aug 17, 2020 18:36
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Took a break from lesson planning and painted up a Necron Primaris Lt. or whatever they're called:
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Aug 17, 2020 18:48
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I uaed my lunch break to finally get some pictures of my Altansar Eldar, as well as my Zaku inspired XV88 Broadside.     
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Aug 17, 2020 19:36
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DressCodeBlue posted:Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but anyone know how the margins are for GW products at non-GW stores? Trying to figure out how to help keep my FLGS open without being into TCGs. Years ago my understand was the store buys them at 50% off and sells them at max 20% discount. So a box of Intercessors is £35 RRP, so they are bought in at £17.50 and sold for at least £28. Aka £9.50 profit. However there's other considerations. GW tells you that you need to buy and display certain stock I think, and if it doesn't sell eventually they buy it back but its still cash flow problem causing. You also need to consider the type of hobbyists in your area and where you're based. If you're in a small town and your local hobbyists already have big armies, chances are you're not actually going to sell a great deal. Finally, you can only stock so much stuff, and GW can be a bit mysterious in terms of when they will send specific orders, so if someone comes into your store and wants X, you can order it, but they can probably have it delivered online quicker. I'd suggest it's a good way to probably supplement a healthy business but not a great way to generate cash for one that's struggling, as it sort of only pays off long term.
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Aug 17, 2020 20:16
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Minor quibble: Kitchner posted:Years ago my understand was the store buys them at 50% off and sells them at max 20% discount. £9.50 margin. Profit comes after all expenses and there's always way more than this.
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Aug 17, 2020 20:22
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Can an Iron Hands warlord use Target Protocols on themselves, and more specifically can a March of the Ancients/Hero of the Chapter Contemptor use it on its own C-beams?
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Aug 17, 2020 20:31
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Kitchner posted:Years ago my understand was the store buys them at 50% off and sells them at max 20% discount. That's deffo a big enough margin that I'll be grabbing some lil dudes from them instead of sticking to random secondhand finds like I've done in the past. Thanks!
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Aug 17, 2020 20:37
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Okay, big overview of the 30k narrative incoming. After conqueroring Terra with his proto-marine Thunder Warriors, the Emperor created 18 superhuman Primarchs, beings of superior strength and intelligence to be the living genetic templates and leaders of his nascent space marine legions. Before the project could be completed, the Primarchs were scattered across the galaxy by the chaotic inhabitants of the warp. The Emperor set forth with his legions, waging a Great Crusade to conquor the galaxy, bringing the human diaspora under his rule. His forces preached the Imperial Truth: though the warp was an inimicable mirror to reality, it harbored no gods or demons. Soon the eighteen Primarchs were found and, through various means, reunited with their legions. Many experienced conflict between the veteran marines recruited from Terra and the newly-inducted ones from their Primarchs' own worlds, but overall this was a time of triumph. At the peak of their progress, the Emperor retired from the Crusade to return to Terra and complete a mysterious project of his own devices, naming Horus as first-among-equals and Warmaster of the crusade. Unbeknownst to the Emperor, members of his legions were already discovering the lie that he had told. Thousand Sons legionairres were consorting with demons of the warp to unlock and enhance their psychic powers. Word Bearers even allowed demons to possess their physical forms in search of greater power. Schemes hatched by Chaplain Erebus of the Word Bearers saw Horus corrupted by the Chaos gods on the moon of Davin. The erstwhile Warmaster led seven legions into rebellion with him. Word soon reached the Emperor's ear that the Sons of Horus, Death Guard, World Eaters, and the Emperor's Children, had taken up arms against the Imperium. The Emperor sent seven legions to crush this rebellion. The Raven Guard, Salamanders, Iron Hands, Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Word Bearers, and Alpha Legion were dispatched almost in their entirety. Falling upon the traitors on the fifth planet of the Istvaan system, the Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Word Bearers, and Alpha Legion revealed that they had already joined Horus' side, betraying the three loyalist legions and leaving them shattered after what would become known as the Drop Site Massacre. With the Alpha Legion joining Horus for their own mysterious purposes, eight full legions had turned traitor. Having sprung their trap, the heretics also engaged the other loyal legions across the galaxy. Warp storms created by the Word Bearers sorcerers trapped the majority of the Ultramarines, Dark Angels, and Blood Angels near the Ultramarines' capital world Macragge. The Space Wolves were engaged with the Thousand Sons on the latter legion's homeworld of Prospero, having been sent to censure them for continuing their psychic sorceries after the Emperor had outlawed such powers in an Edict from the planet Nikea. The Thousand Sons punishment meant that fully half of the original 18 legions now stood in rebellion. The White Scars were warring in the galactic hinterlands, leaving only the Imperial Fists legion and their Primarch Rogal Dorn to defend Terra. Before being set upon by Leman Russ and the Space Wolves, Magnus of the Thousand Sons breached the psychic shields protecting Terra from the warp in a misguided attempt to warn the Emperor of Horus' treachery. This shattered the Emperor's dream of using the ancient Eldar dimension called the Webway to bypass the warp for faster than light travel and allowed demons to attack the Imperial palace directly through a portal in the Emperor's subterranean laboratory. Psychically repelling this invasion took fhe Emperor's complete attention, so Dorn and Imperial Regent Malcador the Sigillite were forced to take military and logistical control of the rest of the Imperium's scattered resources. Dorn handled the fortification of the Solar System and fought against Alpha Legion infiltration teams attempting to weaken the solar defenses. Malcador used spies, assassins, and other agents to delay or disrupt heretical operations across the galaxy. Having mustered his forces, Horus set sail for a reckoning on humanity's birth planet. The Death Guard, led by their Primarch Mortarion and first captain Typhus would arrive first as the vanguard of his grand invasion. You are now fully caught up to start The Buried Dagger.
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Aug 17, 2020 20:44
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DressCodeBlue posted:It's a shop in a major city that already carries a ton of GW stuff. They're one of those combo FLGS/cafe places that was doing really well before COVID but is struggling now. I went to a place like this in London and whenever I can I buy stuff from them for this reason. I don't buy though when they don't have stuff in stock, which is unfortunately common recently.
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Aug 17, 2020 20:45
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I tend to order exclusively from the boardgame café/game store in town these days because you get 5-10% off the GW price if you order through them and I don't have to pay their obscene shipping too. Which is a nice bonus.
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Aug 17, 2020 20:48
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Legendary Ptarmigan posted:Okay, big overview of the 30k narrative incoming. Wicked, ty for this. I thought there were 20 primarchs or have they retconned it down to 18?
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Aug 17, 2020 21:37
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I wish I had a local place that I liked. The one I used to get stuff from was outed as an unsafe place so I don't really want to keep going there, and the other one was a Games Workshop store, which is fine, but I don't just play GW.
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Aug 17, 2020 21:38
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I think the two missing primarchs are just not talked about anymore. Maybe they're the friends we made along the way
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Aug 17, 2020 21:41
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notaspy posted:I thought there were 20 primarchs or have they retconned it down to 18? There were 20. The fluff now holds that two were "lost;" there are hints about their fate, but everyone is sworn to secrecy.
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Aug 17, 2020 21:45
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notaspy posted:Wicked, ty for this. There were 20 and all 20 of them were found. Two of them hosed up and have been stricken from the records; we don't know what happened to them or to their Legions. This was before the Heresy. I believe there's a short story that involves... Dorn? ...going to Malcator the Sigilite and being "Yo, it looks like somebody hosed with my mind to make me forget the details of the two missing guys, best candidate is you. What the gently caress, who gave you permission to do that?" and Malcator going "Uh you did bro. Tell you what, I'll temporarily restore just enough of your memories so that you get the context on why you proposed the brainwipe to me" and then does that and Dorn is like "Huh. Righto. I'll go now." Details are thin on the ground. (The Ultramarines may be so huge because they absorbed the two missing Legions. Also, there's some mention of Prospero not being the first time the Wolves were set upon fellow Astartes Legions, so they may have been involved in this mysterious clusterfuck somehow.)
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Aug 17, 2020 21:46
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If you're interested about the Chromatic Grey talked about earlier here's a great video by Marco Frisoni talking about why he used coloured ink to paint his Black Templar black (with convenient visual representations of the differences!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyXzfVO2Kdw&t=345s 
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Aug 17, 2020 21:48
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notaspy posted:Wicked, ty for this. Yes, you're right, I forgot about the other two. At some point between the start of the Great Crusade and the Heresy, there was some unknown issue with two of the Primarchs and their legions. Records of them beyond their original legion numbers (2 and 11) were completely struck from Imperial history and discussion of them among the other 18 legions became taboo. The implication is that some deviance lead to their complete destruction at the hands of the Space Wolves in their role as the Emperor's executioners. This comes up tangentially when they are attacking Prospero, as the wolves mention this censure action as "not the first time a legion has gone rogue." At the time of the Heresy there's 18 Primarchs kicking around, each with their Legion. They divide nicely into 9 loyalists and 9 traitors.
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Aug 17, 2020 21:49
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There are also clear hints that they were destroyed by the Space Wolves, but more information - who were they, why were they destroyed - is nonexistent.
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Aug 17, 2020 21:50
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There's also a bit in one book where one Primarch turns to another and goes "You know this whole Heresy thing would be a lot easier to deal with if we had two extra Legions to field against it" and the other one goes "You know that's not an option," and it's not entirely clear from context whether the second guy is just lamenting the impossibility of it or, like, vetoing the idea of reinstating them or something. The degree to which they were destroyed is one of the many things about the situation that's unclear. Could be locked in a stasis vault somewhere for GW to pull out and market as a new thing in ten years.
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Aug 17, 2020 21:54
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I really hope that the 2 missing Primarchs are never expanded upon because long running franchises have this bad habit of dispelling all the mysteries of the fluff
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Aug 17, 2020 21:58
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I mean, the original intention was probably that you could create your own chapter/Primarch for your army if you wanted to, but I think it's also likely true now that they're obscure about it because they want to leave the possibility open for creating new armies from them themselves. Could even do a Loyalist/Heretic split and a boxed set or whatever. But please stop releasing new Marines
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Aug 17, 2020 21:59
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Part of it goes back to meta decisions (rather than narrative ones) in the 1980s Rogue Trader days when all this was being sketched out. The two missing Primarchs/Legions could have been written in to allow players to imagine their own forces of space marines in the setting before we had the ideas of smaller chapters and successors. It feels "gamey." Likewise, exactly 9 legions going traitor and 9 staying loyal sets up a situation where a player can choose their favorite "flavor" of marine force and then choose loyal or traitor and find a corresponding faction: Generalists - Ultramarines/Sons of Horus Aggressive, close combat focused - Space Wolves/World Eaters Siege Specialists - Imperial Fists/Iron Warriors Stoic, implacable - Iron Hands/Death Guard Mysterious, secret agendas - Dark Angels/Word Bearers Covert Operations - Raven Guard/Alpha Legion Overall humanity (and lack thereof) - Salamanders/Night Lords Psychic Focus (and Non-European theme...) - White Scars/Thousand Sons Angelic, artistic - Blood Angels/Emperor's Children This isn't the only way to match up the legions, but the symmetry feels "gamey" because it literally is; this stuff was originally (and still is) backstory for a game. Fundamentally this is still a setting where the biggest, angriest man is named Angron. It is all very silly of you get down to it.
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Aug 17, 2020 22:05
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Stephenls posted:There were 20 and all 20 of them were found. Two of them hosed up and have been stricken from the records; we don't know what happened to them or to their Legions. This was before the Heresy. Yeah, I've not read the particular books because there are so many books, but from what I've gathered it was implied the two legions hosed up a so much that the Primarchs had their memories erased, and that the Ultramarines and maybe the Imperial Fist absorbed the two legion's astartes. I think it is also implied, if not outright stated (such as with Barabas Dantioch) that the Ultramarines did it again with loyalist Traitor legions, again explaining the sheer size of the Ultramarines at the Second founding. Baku posted:I mean, the original intention was probably that you could create your own chapter/Primarch for your army if you wanted to Though my understanding is also that this was kind of the idea, before there was the idea of successor chapters.
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Aug 17, 2020 22:07
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Legendary Ptarmigan posted:Fundamentally this is still a setting where the biggest, angriest man is named Angron. It is all very silly of you get down to it. Ferus Manus, Primarch of the Iron Hands!
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Aug 17, 2020 22:24
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Baku posted:I mean, the original intention was probably that you could create your own chapter/Primarch for your army if you wanted to, but I think it's also likely true now that they're obscure about it because they want to leave the possibility open for creating new armies from them themselves. It's totally one of these two - the freedom to either introduce new stories or models later for thenselves, and the ability to give some creativity to players for their special Legion that was totally cool and didn't play by the RULES and are secret and forbidden OC
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Aug 17, 2020 22:26
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Stephenls posted:Ferus Manus, Primarch of the Iron Hands! Sanguinius, Primarch of the Blood Angels! They're all dumb but we accept that with this silly hobby haha
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Aug 17, 2020 22:31
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Stephenls posted:Ferus Manus, Primarch of the Iron Hands! Ferus Manus, roughly latin for Iron Man, who has iron hands, who leads the chapter called the Iron Hands. The iron man with iron hands leads the Iron Hands.
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Aug 17, 2020 22:41
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Werix posted:Ferus Manus, roughly latin for Iron Man, who has iron hands, who leads the chapter called the Iron Hands. The iron man with iron hands leads the Iron Hands. It's worse than that.
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Aug 17, 2020 22:46
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Corvus Corax (Latin name for the common raven) of the
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Aug 17, 2020 22:57
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Guilliman and Lion remember the two missing primarchs. Guilliman made a huge table on Ultramar with 21 seats for when the Great Crusade was over. When he showed it to Lion after the great rift he said he couldn't bring himself to change it.
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Aug 17, 2020 23:07
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DressCodeBlue posted:Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but anyone know how the margins are for GW products at non-GW stores? Trying to figure out how to help keep my FLGS open without being into TCGs. My LGS gets product at 60% MSRP and max discount allowed by GW is 15%.
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Aug 17, 2020 23:29
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On Space marines and silly names Ultramarine is a shade of blue. Konrad Curze is just a refference to Apocalypse Now/Heart of Darkness, Joseph Conrad wrote Heart of Darkness with the character Kurtz as the deranged warlord to who is killed, with his own consent, by an assassin. Of course in the film apocalypse now that assassin was played by Martin Sheen, and in 40k by M'Shen. Lion El'Johnson, primarch of the Dark Angels is a reference to the poet Lionel Johnson who wrote the poem Dark Angel. I think all the others that I know have been mentioned, Mr Iron Hands chief of the Iron Hands with his hands made out of Iron is the best though.
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Aug 17, 2020 23:31
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