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logis
Dec 30, 2004
Slippery Tilde

BaronVonVaderham posted:

Apparently I've been neglecting my cube since last November, so I had quite a few sets to review for potential updates.

Here's the full list of things I'm considering: http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/4787

I'm also seriously considering upping my cube from 600 to 720. These updates just keep getting harder, and I think having more space might help. Then again, it weakens some archetypes if they don't see half of the cube in the draft and never get to pick some key cards.

I could just keep the 600 updated, but run a parallel 720 list and keep the other 120 cards separate, then choose a list when it comes time to draft based on how many people we have, etc.

I've done this with a "powered sideboard" for my legacy cube for if people want to play with Power/etc. Perfect fits have a sticker put on them (2$ circle stickers from Target), so it's easy to identify what's in the SB and what's part of the regular legacy cube.

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BaronVonVaderham
Jul 31, 2011

All hail the queen!
That's interesting. I had actually considered something similar in the past, where I have a curated list of cards that I randomize separately and slip one into each pack along with 14 from the main cube pool, to ensure even distribution of bombs like Power 9, Library, etc. I could do something like that here and include the powerful stuff in that "sideboard".

logis
Dec 30, 2004
Slippery Tilde
Stickers are also useful for color-labeling, for example is Bomat Courier a Red Card or colorless card (I have a red sticker on it, so easy to identify as Red after the draft when I sort and count the Cube). For 2 or 3$ for a bunch of stickers, totally worth it.

Also, big fan of your foiling out the cube. I have part of mine foiled out, but dang it's expensive!! Had a friend foil out his modern cube....at which point he just sold it, heh.

I should mention that my 'sideboard' is probably up to like 70 cards by now. It's all things that I consider 'power'. Obviously, power, but I include Unhinged/Unglued/Unstable as well as Conspiracies, since there's really no other format that they can be played in. Ends up with stories like...

"I passed Black Lotus". "For what???" "Blacker Lotus!!"
"I am at 5 life. All I need to win is to play this Jack in the Mox and not roll 6; 1-5 and I win." <rolls dice> "Hmmm. A six....well, I'm dead!"
"Let's roll a dice to see who goes first. Just kidding, I'll reveal this conspiracy which says I go first!"
"Cool. Took a while to get my basic mana base right." "Why?" <Taps 4 mana> "I'll cast Symbol Status, and make 10 1/1s for 4 mana" "Well then...."

logis fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Aug 28, 2019

Alaan
May 24, 2005

So for heavily archtyped cubes what percentage do you guys leave for just generic good stuff?

WhiteWolf123
Jun 18, 2008

The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Alaan posted:

So for heavily archtyped cubes what percentage do you guys leave for just generic good stuff?

Enough so that the generic aggro/tempo, midrange & control decks can still be competitive. Unfortunately, there's no magic number since there's a multitude of variables involved. You'll just have to playtest it and tinker with the list to get it right.

T-Bone
Sep 14, 2004

jakes did this?
So are there any alternatives to keeping track of (and drafting) from your cube? Cubetutor has been unusably slow for like at least three days now.

BaronVonVaderham
Jul 31, 2011

All hail the queen!
I'm working on one but procrastinating horribly.....

I don't know of any others out there right now.

whydirt
Apr 18, 2001


Gaz Posting Brigade :c00lbert:
CubeCobra.com seems pretty good as an incremental improvement from CubeTutor.

a dozen swans
Aug 24, 2012
Yeah I think cube cobra is gonna be the way forward. Sorry Baron! I think the inventory system will be more lucrative anyway - when you said what stores pay for what they use it absolutely blew my mind

OfChristandMen
Feb 14, 2006

GENERIC CANDY AVATAR #2
I want to proxy a cube for a weekend with friends and in trying to think of a theme, I realized that WotC has recently explored a lot of space between Humans, Vampires, Zombies and Knights overlapping in Black/White (my homer color pair)

I'm thinking a small, 360, aggro focused cube that has good interplay between some of the new strategies and some older legacy tribal mechanics (Lord of the Undead bringing back Nameless Inversion, Mangara of Corondor & Karakas) to give it some grindy interaction.

I'm fully intending to proxy this and have it for one weekend of fun, but open to critique from actual cube builders.

Orzhov Tribal Cube

Archtypes:
Humans: Focused around the tribal "Non-Human" protection and Innistrad Block Cards, with black Human backup
Vampires: Sacrifice enablers, but Innistrad and Ixalan Block BW themed go wide
Zombies: Old Black Zombie Aggro with White additions from Amonkhet Block
Knights: Human cross over with Eldraine and other Tribe specific cardsSacrifice (wb) Non-tribal but go wide token focused with intra-tribe payoffs
Enchantments: Something for control to do

I want Protection to be rarely available since it's such a color-focused cube, with Stillmoon Cavalier being the "True Name Nemesis" of the cube. I'm also having a hard time knowing if my creature types are balanced (certainly not in #s), but few cube sites give that actual creature type breakdown.

GoutPatrol
Oct 17, 2009

*Stupid Babby*

Do you really want to have a TNN-like card in a cube, unless there are other strategies that are really overpowered as well? A Orzhov cube seems almost entirely based around combat. Being able to pick that and "oops I win now" against many other decks seems not fun. I think you have...6 ways of getting rid of it inside your cube?

T-Bone
Sep 14, 2004

jakes did this?
Cube Cobra looks good, thanks! Now if I can get Cubetutor to load to export my list...

BaronVonVaderham
Jul 31, 2011

All hail the queen!
Oof, CubeCobra is an improvement over CubeTutor in that it actually works today, but that's about all I can say for it. It's almost a straight clone with a few minor UI tweaks like having responsive flex containers and dynamic navbars. It looks like most of the work was put into the draft interface, which is a lot smoother and doesn't lag (it shouldn't take 5+ seconds to switch between those nav-tabs at the top).

I still think if I finished mine it would stand out just for being written in a modern framework and being written for performance from day 1.

Also lol the entire draft code is in raw JS and it's SUPER basic color matching and otherwise random numbers, at first glance. I'll tear cube tutor apart all day, but their drafting algorithm was really good. I bet this is still better than Arena's, sadly, but it's not good.

code:
function botPicks() {
  //make bots take a pick out of active activepacks
  for (i = 1; i < draft.packs.length; i++) {
    var bot = draft.bots[i - 1];
    var taken = false;
    //bot has 2 colors, let's try to take a card with one of those colors or colorless, otherwise take a random card
    //try to take card with exactly our two colors
    var ratedpicks = [];
    var unratedpicks = [];
    for (var j = 0; j < draft.packs[i][0].length; j++) {
      if (draft.ratings[draft.packs[i][0][j].details.name]) {
        ratedpicks.push(j);
      } else {
        unratedpicks.push(j)
      }
    }

    ratedpicks.sort(function(x, y) {
      if (draft.ratings[draft.packs[i][0][x].details.name] < draft.ratings[draft.packs[i][0][y].details.name]) {
        return -1;
      }
      if (draft.ratings[draft.packs[i][0][x].details.name] > draft.ratings[draft.packs[i][0][y].details.name]) {
        return 1;
      }
      return 0;
    });
    shuffle(unratedpicks);
    var picknums = ratedpicks.concat(unratedpicks);
    //try to take card that contains exactly <= our colors
    for (j = 0; j < draft.packs[i][0].length; j++) {
      if (!taken) {
        var colors = draft.packs[i][0][picknums[j]].colors;
        if (bot[0] == bot[1]) {
          if ((colors.length == 1 && colors.includes(bot[0])) ||
            colors.length == 0) {
            pick = draft.packs[i][0].splice(picknums[j], 1);
            draft.picks[i].push(pick[0].cardID);
            taken = true;
          }
        } else {
          if ((colors.length == 2 && colors.includes(bot[0]) && colors.includes(bot[1])) ||
            (colors.length == 1 && (colors.includes(bot[0]) || colors.includes(bot[1]))) ||
            colors.length == 0) {
            pick = draft.packs[i][0].splice(picknums[j], 1);
            draft.picks[i].push(pick[0].cardID);
            taken = true;
          }
        }
      }
    }
    //try to take card that at least has one of our colors
    for (j = 0; j < draft.packs[i][0].length; j++) {
      if (!taken) {
        var colors = draft.packs[i][0][picknums[j]].colors;
        if (colors.includes(bot[0]) || colors.includes(bot[1])) {
          pick = draft.packs[i][0].splice(picknums[j], 1);
          draft.picks[i].push(pick[0].cardID);
          taken = true;
        }
      }
    }
    //take a random card
    if (!taken) {
      pick = draft.packs[i][0].splice(Math.floor(Math.random() * draft.packs[i][0].length), 1);
      draft.picks[i].push(pick[0].cardID);
    }
  }
}

whydirt
Apr 18, 2001


Gaz Posting Brigade :c00lbert:
Looking to revive and expand my peasant cube from 360 to the 630-720 range for more variety in drafts. Any case recommendations for a larger cube?

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

ドーナツダメ!
Thread reviiiiiiiiiiiiiive!

I just won a Ultra PRO Brainstorm Cub3 from a Commander tournament yesterday and was wondering if any goons have experience with it. I've always wanted to build a cube, so I guess this is my poke-in-the-face to get one done. Mainly, I'm looking to see if this thing can actually handle travel while stuffed with 900-1000 cards and not fall apart on me.

odiv
Jan 12, 2003

My only experience with it was briefly considering it then ruling it out because of the shape and cost. Let us know how it holds up, how the corners wear, how the components fit, etc.

Brownhat
Jan 25, 2012

One cannot be a good person and enforce unjust laws.


AlternateNu posted:

Thread reviiiiiiiiiiiiiive!

I just won a Ultra PRO Brainstorm Cub3 from a Commander tournament yesterday and was wondering if any goons have experience with it. I've always wanted to build a cube, so I guess this is my poke-in-the-face to get one done. Mainly, I'm looking to see if this thing can actually handle travel while stuffed with 900-1000 cards and not fall apart on me.

I have one sitting on my shelf that I never opened. They gave them to VIPs at Eternal Weekend this year.

Man_alive
May 6, 2007

<Insert Witty Phrase Here>
I realise that to change a card in a cube, it takes a lot of consideration, but now that the full list of TBD is out, are there any notable cards that cube curators are eyeing off?
(Apart from the obvious big-hitting rares/mythics?)

BaronVonVaderham
Jul 31, 2011

All hail the queen!
I tend to wait a while on the new sets. I'm just about to sit down and start looking at Eldraine for inclusions this month.

One decision already made though: no loving Oko, that card is just miserable. There's no denying the power level is there, but it's just not a fun card to play against. The fact that it's such a hard card to deal with even in cube should have been a hint that he was a huge design mistake.

logis
Dec 30, 2004
Slippery Tilde
I run a Legacy Cube with a heavy-ish graveyard theme (I really think that UMA was fun and liked the deckbuilding synergy with the graveyard madness/flashback/reanimate/delve/spell count in graveyards matter) as well as a +1/+1 / proliferate theme (white needs to do something besides be aggro).

So, I am 100% interested in the U/G mythic (reward getting cards in your graveyard). Maybe the Red Phoneix as well, since it only requires a small cost to buy it back.

Man_alive
May 6, 2007

<Insert Witty Phrase Here>

BaronVonVaderham posted:

I tend to wait a while on the new sets. I'm just about to sit down and start looking at Eldraine for inclusions this month.

One decision already made though: no loving Oko, that card is just miserable. There's no denying the power level is there, but it's just not a fun card to play against. The fact that it's such a hard card to deal with even in cube should have been a hint that he was a huge design mistake.

I did briefly consider Oko for mine - this would have been as good as the potential to Channel or Tinker into something ridiculous as Blightsteel Colossus or Myr Battlesphere on T2 as it is anyway. (I don't run any of the OG moxen, hence the T2)
Upon reconsideration, Oko would present the issue where Planeswalker removal is just not that strong or present enough to deal with it. Also, with the size of the cube as it is (I run 360+) it wouldnt be guaranteed to be present enough to be a non-issue.

Now that it's been banned, I might consider running my one copy of Mox Opal in my cube instead!

Hooplah
Jul 15, 2006


After many years of telling myself I'd build a cube from my card collection, quarantine has given me the will and time to sit down and do it. It's sitting at about 400 cards, and it's in very active development. a strong artifact theme, with a lot of mirrodin block cards. no power. strongest overall cards are things like skullclamp, kiki-jiki and tinker (but without a lot of the ridiculous tinker targets)

https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/5ebc0deff0b6b969957ffafd

It's gonna necessarily different from a lot of vintage cubes, as I'm lacking a lot of format staples. hopefully i've made up for it with interesting cards. I tend to value archetype, strategy, and synergy over raw power, so I'm reluctant to add generically powerful one-size-fits-all cards like jtms, jitte, the swords, or more recently oko. this might lead me down the path of including cutesy "win more" card combos, but i'm trying to actively fight that.

I have only five mythic planeswalkers, one each of the ally color pairs:
Huatli, Radiant Champion
Domri, Chaos Bringer
Venser, the Sojourner
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
In my mind, each of them support general strategies, or signal to the drafter to go wide on the walker's gameplan. I'm trying to make them strong enablers without locking the drafter into doing one precise thing, or being so generically powerful it's a mistake not to take them regardless of your other picks.

here's some of the archetypes/themes i'm trying to support, to some degree:
u/w flicker
b/u/x artifacts (duh)
u/b rogues/tempo
w/x tokens/soldiers
g/w weenies
b/g or b/r self-sacrifice and/or reanimate and/or artifact value
r/g hate
g/u counters prolif
g/x ramp
r r/u burn/control/whatever kiki and splinter twin do is called
r/w aggro is pretty bad seeming for the time being, but i have a lot of equip choices and cats that like artifacts
r gobbos (probably need more and better gobs for this one)

obviously not all of these are full decks, but i'm trying to make them all modular to some degree, eg. you can draft the good rogues and maybe splash white for flicker or go big on artifacts. one of my big goals is to make cards work for multiple strategies, so I don't have my half of white that's for flicker, and the other half is for weenies. time and adjustments will tell if i'm actually achieving that. Let me know if you think i'm getting there! Literally any feedback at all would be awesome. I've been putting a LOT of solo time into this lately, so some outside fresh perspectives would be helpful.

This thread used to be so active, I'm sad to see it so dead nowadays now that I finally have a reason to post here!

Hooplah fucked around with this message at 23:25 on May 17, 2020

GoutPatrol
Oct 17, 2009

*Stupid Babby*

Who would you be playing this with? Would they be familar enough with most cards now being over 10 years from their original printing, and most not being staples?

Hooplah
Jul 15, 2006


As of yet, I've only drafted it a couple times with one or two other people. For the most part, I'm building it for myself with the cards I think are interesting. Given that I can't physically go to a shop or tournament right now, i won't be drafting with large groups of strangers. Mainly it'll just be my closer friends that are either very experienced drafters, or that I can spend time with drafting multiple decks so they'll get it over time. Probably if I was drafting with a group who hadn't seen the cube before I'd show off some of the multicolor signpost cards so they're aware what general strategies could work.

I guess I'm not as concerned about that because it'll be more kitchen table, less convention hall full of tourney goers.

uggy
Aug 6, 2006

Posting is SERIOUS BUSINESS
and I am completely joyless

Don't make me judge you
Did a quick draft. It’s super artifact heavy so it makes black and blue sorta tough to draft since they don’t have a ton of answers. Green is a clear winner there.

You also got a ton of cards with tough to cast mana costs. Lots of double or triple colored mana is hard to cast in two, let alone three colored decks, especially since the number of dual lands is really low. You could really use a bunch of mana rocks, talismans would help since it would be more punishing for decks that are greedy. Aggro looks pretty difficult too.

Just a quick look tho. Some cool cards I’m glad to see played.

uggy fucked around with this message at 05:19 on May 18, 2020

Hooplah
Jul 15, 2006


Wow, even just that quick post gave me a lot to think about, thanks! I'm really surprised at your reaction to u/b vs green. My feeling is that blue and black are traditionally the strongest draft colors, so generally experienced drafters will go there first, and I was in fact pretty nervous about blue being too strong. It's possible I went too far in the other direction. I may have to go on the hunt for some blue and/or black cards that mess more with opponent's artifacts. I honestly don't have a ton there right now. I'm interested in any suggestions on that front!

What about it do you think makes green the winner? is it just being able to ramp into the bigger artifacts? here's a shot of all the cube cards that explicitly mention artifacts:

Green is not actually that interested in having artifacts outside of ezuri's brigade and glissa, the traitor.

Regarding mana cost: I haven't actually put a ton of thought into that, but my instinct is it's mostly okay. I'm not really interested in seeing a bunch of three-color decks, and I'd like to think a lot of the desirable cards having double colored cost can help keep that in check. I'm 100% a johnny and tend to draft very greedily, so I guess I'm building the cube that would herd players like me into guilds rather than shards/wedges. Here's a shot of all the double/triple cost cards in the cube:

This is excluding the gold cards. I have 50 of each monocolor. that means each color is sitting at 1/3 -1/2 double/triple colored cost. is this too much for a cube? I haven't seen much online on this subject. Red specifically here looks a bit rough if it wants to not be mono red or gruul. I haven't tried drafting izzet yet, so maybe that guild would have mana issues. right now slith firewalker is sticking out to me as a very blah card. I want to trade that up into a krenko, tin street kingpin. Goblin engineer would be cool, too

And regarding the mana base: I have all ten signets in, and they're already hugely desirable cards outside of an artifacts matter environment, so having those plus all the talismans would be a big headache for me to balance. My land base currently consists of two lands for each guild (a good dual and a ravnica bounce land) plus one of each of the artifacts lands, and a few other utility-type lands. I honestly don't want to drop 100$ on a second cycle of duals plus having to make a bunch of painful cuts. Maybe it'll happen eventually though, as my power level seems to be continually creeping up.

Hooplah fucked around with this message at 16:17 on May 18, 2020

Aston
Nov 19, 2007

Okay
Okay
Okay
Okay
Okay

I had a draft of it, I really enjoy these slightly lower power level cubes and I liked the deck I put together, which was B/R sacrifice headed by the tag team duo of Disciple of the Vault and his big brother Marionette Master.

The only points I'd mention from the draft are that I felt like I struggled to get enough artifacts - looking at the list, you have 84 artifacts out of 405 total cards, so about 20%, which feels slightly low for an artifact themed cube. I also saw some cards that seemed a bit out of place, like Rule of Law and Painful Quandary, and I find it hard to envision the deck that would want these.

Having also looked over the list, there's a couple more things that strike me:
Pestermite/Splinter Twin seems a lot more powerful than the rest of the cube.
Having Signets means that signet into four drop is going to be a common play pattern, I personally am not a huge fan of this but it's more of a taste thing
Only three of the Hondens? If I see one of these I'd usually assume all five are in

Also, some cards that you might want to consider:
Bomat Courier, Signal Pest, Weaponcraft Enthusiast, Chromatic Sphere/doubling up on Star, Prophetic Prism, Mycosynth Wellspring, Blinkmoth Nexus, Mishra's Factory, Myrsmith, and +1/+1 counter lords (like Abzan Falconer or Crowned Ceratok)

Hooplah
Jul 15, 2006


Aston posted:

I had a draft of it, I really enjoy these slightly lower power level cubes and I liked the deck I put together, which was B/R sacrifice headed by the tag team duo of Disciple of the Vault and his big brother Marionette Master.

The only points I'd mention from the draft are that I felt like I struggled to get enough artifacts - looking at the list, you have 84 artifacts out of 405 total cards, so about 20%, which feels slightly low for an artifact themed cube. I also saw some cards that seemed a bit out of place, like Rule of Law and Painful Quandary, and I find it hard to envision the deck that would want these.

Having also looked over the list, there's a couple more things that strike me:
Pestermite/Splinter Twin seems a lot more powerful than the rest of the cube.
Having Signets means that signet into four drop is going to be a common play pattern, I personally am not a huge fan of this but it's more of a taste thing
Only three of the Hondens? If I see one of these I'd usually assume all five are in

Also, some cards that you might want to consider:
Bomat Courier, Signal Pest, Weaponcraft Enthusiast, Chromatic Sphere/doubling up on Star, Prophetic Prism, Mycosynth Wellspring, Blinkmoth Nexus, Mishra's Factory, Myrsmith, and +1/+1 counter lords (like Abzan Falconer or Crowned Ceratok)

Getting the artifact % up is The Struggle right now. I really need to keep cutting colored cards, and getting more colored artifacts eg. baleful strix. Turns out I don't have many of the good ones and they tend to be expensive. And I know there's some oddballs in there, but I kinda can't help myself. I want to see someone build something unique, and having weird build-arounds is a big part of that for me. They'll eventually get the boot though if there really isn't anything interesting to do with them.

I added pestermite, kiki, and splinter twin each on their own without realizing i was including a gamebreaking combo. I should really do something about that, but I'm not sure what yet. I like each card individually and enjoy the deckbuilding they encourage, so i'm remiss to just cut. is there a good sub for pestermite?

You're right about signet->4-drop. That's something I'll have to keep in mind and watch for. I don't really have the drafting experience to have a good "feel" for how that might distort the format yet.

I just don't really like the white and blue hondens in the cube. a 4-drop enchantment for lifegain feels boring to me, and giving blue more easily splashable card draw... Actually, i just checked my cube and blue doesn't have any repeatable card draw that's not on a body. maybe that's a good include after all. the white one though, I'm not sure. I don't have any payoffs/synergies for life gain. problem with the hondens is that the more that are there, the better each one individually gets, which could lead to some degenerate drafting strategies (in my mind at least). I don't want anyone to reliably get two-three of them in a deck.

Good list of cards for the maybeboard! Some of them were already on my radar (pest/nexus/factory/myrsmith), chromatic sphere i cut early on (but it may need to make a return), and the others look great. ceratok specifically look like an amazing fit!

glad you like the cube, though! I bot-drafted a pretty sick jund sac deck that's kinda similar

uggy
Aug 6, 2006

Posting is SERIOUS BUSINESS
and I am completely joyless

Don't make me judge you
Lot to respond to, fun to talk cube!

But just a quick look at your deck, skullclamp will be by far the most powerful card in your cube, it’s power level is so high above the rest of your cube

Hooplah
Jul 15, 2006


I knew it was powerful, but after doing even a cursory google of clamp in cube makes it pretty obvious it's too good for my environment :sigh:

I didn't realize it's up near the moxen in terms of artifact power. I have been reluctant to add swords because I don't like the way they distort games but then add this, lol

Abhorrence
Feb 5, 2010

A love that crushes like a mace.
There's a non-insane argument to be made that in any environment in which 'play dudes, attack with them,' is a viable strategy, (so everything but vintage) Skullclamp is the best card ever printed.

Brownhat
Jan 25, 2012

One cannot be a good person and enforce unjust laws.


I know it's been a while, cube thread, but what are some themes for each color you think of when you hear the words "Graveyard Cube?"

whydirt
Apr 18, 2001


Gaz Posting Brigade :c00lbert:
White: Bad

BaronVonVaderham
Jul 31, 2011

All hail the queen!
Are you going for more modern cards, all cards?

Red: Discard for card advantage (stuff like Thrill of Possibility), damage-based removal that exiles (to effectively interact with the other colors and kind of be the anti-graveyard one), maybe Fling-like effects that rely on sacrificing your own creatures to deal damage (e.g. Goblin Bombardment, Siege-Gang).

Blue: Looting, flashback, mill

Green: Recursion to the hand (Regrowth effects like Eternal Witness), maybe stuff like Vengevine, Scavenging Ooze, Ground Seal

White: Stuff like Lingering Souls, new Escape Elspeth, the few white reanimation effects out there (Elspeth Conquers Death). I'd probably use lots of embalm stuff from Amonkhet block.

Black: Super obvious reanimation and zombie stuff, sacrifice mechanics

GoutPatrol
Oct 17, 2009

*Stupid Babby*

Yeah every color has good ways to get cards into the graveyard but white. But white could go for the mass recursion like rally the ancestors for value.

whydirt
Apr 18, 2001


Gaz Posting Brigade :c00lbert:
Seriously though, just give white a little extra exile-based removal than usual so it can play the control role while everyone else is up to shenanigans

Brownhat
Jan 25, 2012

One cannot be a good person and enforce unjust laws.


I probably want to keep from going max power level, because black puts everything else to shame. That, or make like half of the cube black to accommodate all the black drafters.

Hooplah
Jul 15, 2006


Green also has undergrowth and putting lands in the graveyard for stuff like world shaper

Remember to include stuff to gently caress with graveyards a la tormod's crypt

white also has really excellent enters/leaves the battlefield triggers plus stuff like afterlife. think luminous broodmoth from ikoria plus afterlife creatures and daxos, blessed by the sun. White also has the cards brought back and rest in peace. Also Sun Titan, obviously

Brownhat
Jan 25, 2012

One cannot be a good person and enforce unjust laws.


Hooplah posted:

Green also has undergrowth and putting lands in the graveyard for stuff like world shaper

Remember to include stuff to gently caress with graveyards a la tormod's crypt

white also has really excellent enters/leaves the battlefield triggers plus stuff like afterlife. think luminous broodmoth from ikoria plus afterlife creatures and daxos, blessed by the sun. White also has the cards brought back and rest in peace. Also Sun Titan, obviously

I think mass graveyard hate might be too powerful, but there are a lot of cool hate cards that were a little too narrow for constructed play.

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Hooplah
Jul 15, 2006


If you haven't checked it out, you should give Arena's amonkhet remastered limited a shot. A lot of really great graveyard interaction. Of course, it's balanced by being a really fast environment, but sometimes you can live the UB self-mill/cycling dream.

don't be too afraid to include premium yard hate, btw. just giving everyone their toys with low interaction opportunity can lead to a very degenerate environment.

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