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Lukas speech at the factory went as well as expected; he got booed by the workers. Sheer art. https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1295287751957516294?s=21 Mokotow fucked around with this message at 10:22 on Aug 17, 2020 |
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Aug 17, 2020 09:41
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https://twitter.com/franakviacorka/status/1295283616684085248
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Aug 17, 2020 10:13
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HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1295003032762097665 Russian conservatives/nationalists/chuds have a confused relationship with Poles. Russian right-wing philosopher Galkovsky wrote that the Poles are like a pure version of the Russian race, untainted by asiatic soviet influences  Some E/N poo poo: A few years ago I got infected with a severe case of right-wing rationalism of the brain. Embarrassing. A rival group of Russian chuds doxxed my parents, revealing that they had a Polish last name (and ancestry). Threats followed. Approximately half of my fellow chuds were convinced that they have stumbled upon a Jewish conspiracy to take over Russian liberal nationalism. Back then I felt extraordinary shame and embarrassment for participating in idiot right-wing politics. But looking back at it now, its the funniest poo poo that ever happened to me. Can you imagine a group of chuds so iodine-deficient they lost their ability to do anti-Semitism? Thats like something from Borat the movie. I need to write a Rational Wiki article about this.
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Aug 17, 2020 10:29
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Right wing chudionalism: not even once.
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Aug 17, 2020 10:45
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I went on Stela rally, it was glorious. I especially liked how the crowd roared in joy and greeting when another shitton of protesters emerged from sidestreets and joined in.
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Aug 17, 2020 11:22
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Charliegrs posted:Are there any doubts about the loyalty of the Belarusian military to Lukashenko? I'm asking because I find it odd all the rumors that he might ask Putin to send in the Russian military to put down the protests. Like why doesn't Luka just send in his own military? Unless maybe they can't be trusted to shoot at their own countrymen? (I hope that's the case) I wish there was doubts, however not sure. However veterans association of KGB's elite Alpha unit called on their colleagues to act honorably with restrained and stop with bullshit torture and brutality.
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Aug 17, 2020 11:49
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The government has apparently stepped down. I dont know if this is standard after election reshuffle though, or related to the demonstrations.
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Aug 17, 2020 11:51
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Its standard.
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Aug 17, 2020 11:54
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https://twitter.com/Den_2042/status/1295306195193016321
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Aug 17, 2020 11:58
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Considering there hasn't been any crackdowns on protestors anymore and now (some?) state media is joining the strikes I guess it's just a matter of hours/days before he flees or gets deposed by the military?
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Aug 17, 2020 12:04
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Well they are trying to make isolated examples. https://twitter.com/Den_2042/status/1295304784438853632
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Aug 17, 2020 12:05
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 Lukashenko wants to have a referendum to change the constitution. https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1295316645695705090 
HUGE PUBES A PLUS fucked around with this message at 12:16 on Aug 17, 2020 |
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Aug 17, 2020 12:06
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https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1295327756088115208
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Aug 17, 2020 13:04
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A theater in Grodno took down the national flag and put up the white-red-white flag. The video is on facebook. https://www.facebook.com/zmicier.koscin/videos/3141778362558344/
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Aug 17, 2020 13:07
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https://twitter.com/SKtoTam/status/1295340384512610304 Also "Дэпутаты Еўрапарламента аб'явілі Лукашэнку персонай нон грата ў Еўрасаюзе." HUGE PUBES A PLUS fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Aug 17, 2020 |
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Aug 17, 2020 13:59
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So, what caused this particular rigged election to open the floodgates? Mishandling of COVID? The economy going to pot? There's usually something inciting this kind of collapse of such a long-lasting regime.
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Aug 17, 2020 14:07
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White red white flag on Nesvizh castle
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Aug 17, 2020 14:07
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Darth Walrus posted:So, what caused this particular rigged election to open the floodgates? Mishandling of COVID? The economy going to pot? There's usually something inciting this kind of collapse of such a long-lasting regime. I think there's more than meets the eye. What caused the people to go out and protest is caused by a complex chain of things. If one had to aggregate them I'd say: * Just like during soviet times, people used to think that they can't speak aloud because everyone else around things differently (based on narrative). In Lithuania, it took multiple years where people started gatherings from a few tens, to hundreds, then thousands and eventually hundreds of thousands and eventually - full independence movement. Remember, Belarus is basically the last Soviet country on the planet. * Times have changed. The internet has brought more visibility on the problems and also - the fact that people speak about them aloud. Lukashenko mismanaged the situation by using old methodologies of his, while allowing a glimmer of hope through Tikhanovskaya * Give people the smallest of hopes and they will flood to it. With more visibility on what is really going on - people started to see that there's more of them (who disagree and want something else than the way things are). * Initial reaction of violence - given the points above, instead of people becoming more afraid, they became angry. And they flooded the streets. I think this speeded up the process of protests There are probably more things that affect it. Be it mishandling of COVID, general view of the leaders towards the populace and etc. Hindisght is 20/20 as they say. I'm still eager to see how this will turn out and what the future will bring for Belarus.
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Aug 17, 2020 14:17
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It's very much a case of people seeing big protests and feeling safety in numbers. The regime has always thrived on generating fear and keeping the visible numbers of their opponents low. Now they're actively disappearing protesters they can identify but it's far too few and far too late and it's only going to galvanize people against the government. I wouldn't be surprised if Lukashenko flee's the country this week.
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Aug 17, 2020 14:30
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Darth Walrus posted:So, what caused this particular rigged election to open the floodgates? Mishandling of COVID? The economy going to pot? There's usually something inciting this kind of collapse of such a long-lasting regime. To add to what Karmalis said, this time elections were rigged too blatantly. Before that everyone basically thought, well, he might not have 80%, but the majority supports him, so we'll let it slide. Plus the traditional opposition simply couldn't win people over with their often too radical rhetoric. This time around actual moderates tried to run, were jailed or had to leave the country, and Lukashenko really didn't expect Tikhanovskaya to attract any support, which backfired, as her only promise was to organise fair elections. What's also important is that Russia wasn't happy with Lukashenko lately either. His whole shtick was about preserving good relationship with the brotherly nation of Russia, and he's fumbled through the latest round of negotiations about integration with Russia, worsening his standing both with people who want closer ties with Russia, and with people who want to stay more independent. And then there was the whole debacle with Wagner mercenaries that also didn't help him one bit.
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Aug 17, 2020 14:30
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Darth Walrus posted:So, what caused this particular rigged election to open the floodgates? Mishandling of COVID? The economy going to pot? There's usually something inciting this kind of collapse of such a long-lasting regime. Covid for the reason you stated, as well as a ton of workers returnin from Russia when they closed the borders. Also, because Luka and co pretty much done everything in their power to piss people off, there were tons of opportunities to return everybody back to slumber but time and time again they went for the worst possible option. What comes to mind is: 1. Arrest of Sergei Tikhanovskiy. He was sentenced to 15 days back in January but according to the law he does not have to serve immediately and they somehow decided to put him in jail exactly when everyone had 1 week to put themselves forward for elections. This was such petty low bullshit that people went to sign for his wife as a sort of gently caress you 2. Enormous lines for Tikhanovskaya so people realized that we are many 3. Second arrest of Tikhanovskiy over an obvious provocation 4. Arrest of another candidate Victor Babariko, they still werent't able to convincingly explain what the hell did he do wrong 5. First violence started during protests against Babariko arrest 6. Tikhanovskaya almost quit her campaign after receiving anonymous calls that something bad might happen to her children if she doesn't quit. Real lovely move, nobody likes when mother is threatened with well-being of her children 7. Minsk water company hosed up and put some sort of chemical in water works making water unusable for nearly half the city for a few days 8. Usual election fraud 9. Finally 5 days of previously unseen brutality against literally everyone, not just protesters OMON would literally grab and beat everyone they see indiscriminately. This finally pissed of the workers who are normally conservative and apolitical And well, here we have now. Everyone condemns police brutality, government propaganda workers refused to produce and broadcast lies, famous athletes, musicians, various celebrities spoke out against it, even some members of power block seem to think they went too far with the beatings
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Aug 17, 2020 14:31
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I'm having flashbacks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcRWiz1PhKU
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Aug 17, 2020 14:50
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There is a hilarious video from MZKT meeting when he said that to have another election he has to be dead. And than someone in the crowd screams at the top of his lungs ПОШЕЛ НАХУЙ 
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Aug 17, 2020 15:02
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Sekenr posted:There is a hilarious video from MZKT meeting when he said that to have another election he has to be dead. And than someone in the crowd screams at the top of his lungs ПОШЕЛ НАХУЙ
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Aug 17, 2020 15:13
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Forum rules question: would I get in trouble if I wished the head of state of Belarus to die?  Question B: who is going to update this? 
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Aug 17, 2020 16:52
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Nenonen posted:Forum rules question: would I get in trouble if I wished the head of state of Belarus to die? Why would you wish that on Tikhanovskaya !?
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Aug 17, 2020 17:06
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 I guess it's important to notice that Lukashenka said that his murder was the prerequisite of a new election, not of him stepping down. So there is still a possibility of peaceful transition of power to king Joffrey!
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Aug 17, 2020 17:39
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Difficult moments outside the jail in Minsk today where most of the tortures took place and where prisoners are still being held. While a demonstration that marched there wanted to surround the jail and exert pressure on the guards inside to release prisoners, the volunteers and clergy that were staking the jail out and maintained a support village for those being released blocked off access, claiming the demonstrators making noise will embolden the guards to further torture their victims. A standoff ensued, with the clergy and volunteers forming a chain to block the demonstrators off.
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Aug 17, 2020 20:57
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Protesters have evolved their tactics: https://twitter.com/nicolasdepedro/status/1295390507523244032 Lukashenko will be driven out BY loving BAGPIPES.
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Aug 17, 2020 23:13
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How much of this is genuine protest of leadership versus Russia and the US sticking their junk in proxy fight?
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Aug 17, 2020 23:25
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what a take
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Aug 17, 2020 23:28
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Hey everyone just checking in, but are Belarusians real people or some sort of dumb peasant cows that lurch in directions if major world powers will it?
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Aug 17, 2020 23:29
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Grape posted:Hey everyone just checking in, but are Belarusians real people or some sort of dumb peasant cows that lurch in directions if major world powers will it? Point taken. Thanks.
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Aug 17, 2020 23:33
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BLM/George Floyd protests are really a proxy fight between China and Japan, if you think about it
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Aug 17, 2020 23:38
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Giving that the benefit of the doubt and assuming it's not a take, the answer is "realistically nobody knows at this point." The US, Russia, and regional powers (probably Poland and Ukraine at least) probably have intelligence personnel doing /something/ in the country, because you'd have to be loving incompetent as a state to not at least have covert officers watching what's going down/talking with sources to try and get an idea of what's going on. You want some perspective beyond what can be seen by watching Telegram channels and press reports from afar because having actionable intelligence is useful when making policy decisions regarding a tense situation that will probably have significant geopolitical consequences regardless of the outcome. Whether they're also engaging in something more than just intelligence gathering, and exactly who's doing what if so isn't really the sort of thing any actor involved is going to shout from the rooftops for a variety of reasons. They may be, they may not be, and regardless the policy decisions aren't exactly something anyone's going to be entirely forthright about at the moment. That said, there are A LOT of ordinary people protesting, and the notion that they're all doing so because they were paid or provoked by outside actors is, well, rather ludicrous. External actors almost certainly have interests and may very well be engaged in more than passive actions in pursuit of them, but the idea that they're puppetmasters able to orchestrate something on this scale in support of them effectively is perhaps giving intelligence services a bit more credit than they're due.
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Aug 18, 2020 00:02
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CMYK BLYAT! posted:Giving that the benefit of the doubt and assuming it's not a take, the answer is "realistically nobody knows at this point." The US, Russia, and regional powers (probably Poland and Ukraine at least) probably have intelligence personnel doing /something/ in the country, because you'd have to be loving incompetent as a state to not at least have covert officers watching what's going down/talking with sources to try and get an idea of what's going on. You want some perspective beyond what can be seen by watching Telegram channels and press reports from afar because having actionable intelligence is useful when making policy decisions regarding a tense situation that will probably have significant geopolitical consequences regardless of the outcome. Thank you
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Aug 18, 2020 00:23
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by Anton Baton ОСВЕНЦИМ. Беларусь. 2020 год. 1. Бьют. Бьют по потери сознания. Отбивают ноги. Руки. Травмируют внутренние органы. Травмируют позвоночник. Разбивают голову. 2. Засовывают в анальное отверстие твердые предметы. (поступают медицинские сводки) 2. Ставят маркером отметки на лице - черным и зеленым маркером. Черный - бить до потери сознания. Зеленый - бить меньше. 3. В камере на 4 человека стоят 40-50 человек. Сесть нельзя. Стоят сутками. Люди пытаются спать стоя. Свет не выключают. 4. Бьют. Требуют назвать клички. Требуют пароли от телефонов. Заходят в телефоны. Смотрят личные фото, переписки. Смеются. 5. Не вызывают скорую даже тем, у кого идет кровь и явно выраженные травмы. 6. Не дают пить, есть и спать. Кладут лицом в пол и запрещают подымать и поворачивать голову. Запрещают подымать глаза. За любую попытку - нещадно бьют. 7. Женщин и мужчин обыскивают вместе, раздевая до гола. Обыски девушек и женщин проводят часто мужчины. 8. Не вносят в списки. Не дают родственникам никаких сведений. 9. Пытают электро-шокером. Пытают огнем. Требуют признать участие в "майданах", требуют сдать каких-то сообщников. 10. Цинизм. Жестокость. Звериная ненависть. Говорят о том, что бьют с улыбками и удовольствием. Смеются над теми кто ходит под себя от боли. 11. Женщины говорят что беременны - не слушают. Не выпускают. Многим женщинам с "критическими днями" не дают средств гигиены. 12. Руки за спиной вяжут пластиковыми шнурами до крови. 13. Ночью начинают бить. Криками будят остальных. 14. НЕ ПУСКАЮТ СКОРУЮ И ВРАЧЕЙ!!! ВРАЧИ СКОРОЙ, РЕАНИМАТОЛОГИ ГОВОРЯТ, ЧТО ОНИ НЕ ВИДЕЛИ ТАКИХ УВЕЧИЙ В СВОЕЙ ЖИЗНИ! Министр внутренних дел Беларуси Юрий Караев заявил (https://www.svaboda.org/a/30782391.html), что берет ответственность на себя за травмы случайных людей на протестах, «попавших под раздачу», и приносит извинения. Караев (фамилия то КАКАЯ) Юрий, думаю, что одними извинениями вы не отделаетесь!
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Aug 18, 2020 03:47
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This is a good interesting thread and I like that you don't just yell at each other.
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Aug 18, 2020 04:08
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Preoptopus posted:by Anton Baton
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Aug 18, 2020 04:27
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What are the major factions in contention for power if the current government is removed? Liberal privatizers? Socialists? Right wing nationalists? Pro Western /pro russians?
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Aug 18, 2020 04:35
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