|
Who will you vote for in 2020? This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| Biden |
|
425 | 18.06% |
| Trump |
|
105 | 4.46% |
| whoever the Green Party runs |
|
307 | 13.05% |
| GOOGLE RON PAUL |
|
151 | 6.42% |
| Bernie Sanders |
|
346 | 14.70% |
| Stalin |
|
246 | 10.45% |
| Satan |
|
300 | 12.75% |
| Nobody |
|
202 | 8.58% |
| Jess Scarane |
|
110 | 4.67% |
| mystery man Brian Carroll of the American Solidarity Party |
|
61 | 2.59% |
| Dick Nixon |
|
100 | 4.25% |
| Total: | 2089 votes | ||
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:Possibly, sometime in the future, maybe, after a few different presidential terms and possibly administrations, they might could expand that frame work that might look like something close to m4a into m4a if it indeed ends up being a real policy perhaps I was unclear, I wasn't lauding it, I was noting Biden blowing up the argument against m4a he himself has latched on to (and probably believes?)
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2020 20:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 14:38 |
|
|
plogo posted:They pruned the establishment, not the moderates, in my opinion. Sure, to them Paul Ryan looks like a moderate, but I think its more accurate that he had pretty radical ideas and knew how to keep his mouth shut about the stuff people really don't like. I guess I don't see Neoconservativism as being "the establishment", seeing as it arose during the Third Way years of Clinton as a sort of post-Reagan attempt to gain power through a more moderate approach, and was superficially focused on "worldwide democracy". The Tea Party, to me, seemed much more of a Reaganite revival movement with all the old "Silent Majority" cultural markers.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2020 21:01
|
|
|
TheDeadlyShoe posted:Disney didn't open *because* they didn't get their carveout. And they didn't get their carveout because unions leaned on Newsom to not be an idiot. This is all 5 seconds of googling level facts but you are more concerned with making GBS threads on some Democrat than supporting the point you were supposedly trying to make. My original point was that Democrats have been falling over themselves to protect capital throughout this crisis and even if they controlled everything over 100k people would still have died by now. Gavin "failed" to protect Disneyland but that he even TRIED should have you calling for his head (and that's not even getting into his letting PG&E get away with literal murder). But you can't stop screeching "Trump bad!" long enough to acknowledge the Dems shortcomings, making you, at best, a useful idiot for the lib agenda. You and people like you will be insufferable if Biden wins because you'll spend four to eight years forgiving every war, every policy failure, every police killing with "well, it would be worse if Trump did it."
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2020 21:19
|
|
|
TheDeadlyShoe posted:The CSIS report you link is a meditation on the constitutional dubiousness of having what is effectively a government agency with 0 confirmation requirements from Congress, not any sort of imputation that the pandemic office should be closed as a matter of policy. When you're ready to provide evidence that the report's recommendation of "adopt the House proposal [which is that congress should be able to shrink the NSC by witholding approval]" (instead of something along the lines of "don't adopt any proposal", by the way) would not include reducing the size of the pandemic team, I'll be ready to read it. joepinetree posted:Third, the idea that blue states are handling this better is also a joke. The 4 states with a death rate higher than 1000 per million are NY, NJ, MA and CT. The 5 states with the highest rt right now are HI, SD, MN, WA and WI This is a cool resource, thank you for sharing Also apparently the dems are already amending promises out of their platform https://twitter.com/AlexCKaufman/status/1295812448163962883 Ruzihm fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Aug 18, 2020 |
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2020 21:21
|
|
|
TheDeadlyShoe posted:How it organized is irrelevant to the point. Astroturf or grassroots, the voters were real, and their sentiment was real. You can throw all the billions you want at an election and it gets you nothing if you cannot connect to voters. What the wealthy and their lackeys provided was organization and framework, and you don't need huge piles of money to do that. having well funded organization apparatus is actually a huge loving deal. what in the god drat hell also, you seem to be suggesting that the tea party voted for their candidates and got what they want and the left isn't going to do the same thing. what is giving you that idea?
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2020 21:25
|
|
|
TheDeadlyShoe posted:
Pressure had nothing to do with it; Disneyland themselves closed because they knew how stupid it was, so Newsom went "okay everything's closed". Which means he also wasn't pressured by Disneyland to let them stay open, he tried to do that of his own volition and they had to tell him that his attempt to bend over backwards for them was stupid. You're just wrong about everything. Also PG&E is still murdering people and he's still letting them get away with it. TheDeadlyShoe posted:Disney didn't open *because* they didn't get their carveout. And they didn't get their carveout because unions leaned on Newsom to not be an idiot. This is all 5 seconds of googling level facts but you are more concerned with making GBS threads on some Democrat than supporting the point you were supposedly trying to make. Seriously, this is 100% wrong, either you're a blatant loving liar or you just have no idea what happened in this state and are making poo poo up because it sounds good in your head. I followed this as it happened because I live here, it was loving appalling. Edit: Oh, I see, you're confusing his attempt to reopen Disneyland early with his initial attempt to never loving close it in the first place. Also Cuomo is the one who Republicans are copying on giving businesses complete liability immunity, so bringing that up is a pretty lovely defense of the blue state response to COVID. Edit again: Oh hey speaking of New York: https://twitter.com/nwmalinowski/status/1295704796779995136 Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Aug 18, 2020 |
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2020 21:32
|
|
|
Famethrowa posted:I guess I don't see Neoconservativism as being "the establishment", seeing as it arose during the Third Way years of Clinton as a sort of post-Reagan attempt to gain power through a more moderate approach, and was superficially focused on "worldwide democracy". I was using establishment, in the sense of the party leaders that decide who runs for office, who gets the campaign money, who campaigns where. The GOP establishment was mixed in ideology, a combination of neocons, movement cons, and evangelicals. I don't particularly like assigning a separate ideology to the tea party, although it did exist to some extent, because I don't really see Jim Jordon or Mark Meadows as being substantially different ideologically from many of their predecessors in the GOP, I see there role as being more important in terms of creating an alternative party hierarchy.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2020 21:33
|
|
|
TheDeadlyShoe posted:No poo poo? None of that contradicts any of what I said. Funding by billionaires ran the organizations that pushed the Tea Party. It didn't materialize voters. It only provided the seeds for what turned into the Freedom Caucus today. Dennis Hastert was a big initial pusher of the Tea Party and of electoral radicalism in general (i.e. the Hastert Rule); but his own son got primaried by them. when the left organizes the democratic establishment crushes it. A recent example is morse. A further example is how the DCCC wouldn't allow progressives that ran primaries to use their vendors. This poo poo only works if you aren't experiencing a landscape that is hostile to you from both sides of the equation.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2020 21:34
|
|
|
Ruzihm posted:When you're ready to provide evidence that the report's recommendation of "adopt the House proposal" (instead of something along the lines of "don't adopt any proposal", by the way) would not include reducing the size of the pandemic team, I'll be ready to read it. On the one hand, this doesn't surprise me. On the other,  that they're actively trying to find the furthest possible right they can go to still squeak out a win.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2020 21:35
|
|
|
“Democrats wouldn’t have handled COVID better” is certainly a hot loving take. P (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2020 21:42
|
|
|
CelestialScribe posted:“Democrats wouldn’t have handled COVID better” is certainly a hot loving take. P Great contentless one liner. But just for your reference, the number of deaths would have to double for Louisiana and quadruple for Florida for them to catch up to NY on deaths/million. And that is assuming not a single additional person dies in NY. NY, the state where nursing homes have immunity for covid deaths.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2020 21:48
|
|
|
CelestialScribe posted:“Democrats wouldn’t have handled COVID better” is certainly a hot loving take. P I have repeatedly said they would have handled it better, but saying that someone would outperform Trump is like saying you can outrun a corpse. Yeah, no poo poo, but beating the literal dead body in a race doesn't mean any time you set is automatically good. The Democratic response to COVID would have been grossly insufficient and heavily marred by concessions to capital. Our evidence is Dem government response nationwide and Biden's campaign marching their supporters out to vote in a pandemic, but all the Biden supporters keep coming back to is "so you think Trump is better, huh????"
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2020 21:53
|
|
|
Kreeblah posted:On the one hand, this doesn't surprise me. On the other, It's very cool that the logo is actually indicative of this objective 
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2020 21:55
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/1295825792430157826?s=20
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2020 21:57
|
|
|
^ note to mods: this is not photoshopped/deepfaked Whoever set this up must have known what they were doing. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2020 22:02
|
|
|
I wonder if the chair chose to invite her or if this was a forced thing. He even thanked her in the clip for all of her work on behalf of natives but I honestly can't think of anything she did other than ignore DAPL protests.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2020 22:07
|
|
|
i have been assured multiple times by multiple posters in this thread that the only reason people were mean to elizabeth warren was because they were a bunch of sexists that pathologically hated women, so would one of you please return for a brief moment to tell me that this feeling of revulsion im having when i look at elizabeth warren speaking for the native american caucus is actually racist crimethink i would be extremely appreciative could really use a thoughtkiller over here
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2020 22:15
|
|
|
Ruzihm posted:When you're ready to provide evidence that the report's recommendation of "adopt the House proposal [which is that congress should be able to shrink the NSC by witholding approval]" (instead of something along the lines of "don't adopt any proposal", by the way) would not include reducing the size of the pandemic team, I'll be ready to read it. Uh excuse me? I though Joe Biden was totally going to implement the Green New Deal ideals through the unity commission plan that he definitely knew about.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2020 22:20
|
|
|
Malleum posted:i have been assured multiple times by multiple posters in this thread that the only reason people were mean to elizabeth warren was because they were a bunch of sexists that pathologically hated women, so would one of you please return for a brief moment to tell me that this feeling of revulsion im having when i look at elizabeth warren speaking for the native american caucus is actually racist crimethink i would be extremely appreciative oh yeah sorry you're a bad person for thinking that democrats can do a bad thing. i'm so sorry.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2020 22:20
|
|
|
afaik she's done a ton of outreach to various tribes at considerable length and has done a good job hearing their concerns. eg most of the big things you'll hear native/AIM activists support is in https://elizabethwarren.com/plans/tribal-nations somewhere
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2020 22:31
|
|
|
Famethrowa posted:I guess I don't see Neoconservativism as being "the establishment", seeing as it arose during the Third Way years of Clinton as a sort of post-Reagan attempt to gain power through a more moderate approach, and was superficially focused on "worldwide democracy". Neoconservativism arose in the late 60s-early 70s, mostly as a reaction to the New Left, with its major flagship publication being [i]Public Interest[/b]. The term was first used by Michael Harrington in '73, and neoconservatives were all dug into the Nixon, Ford, and Reagan administration.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2020 22:37
|
|
|
Herstory Begins Now posted:afaik she's done a ton of outreach to various tribes at considerable length and has done a good job hearing their concerns. *After she started running for president and the DNA test blew up on her face* http://www.criticalethnicstudiesjournal.org/blog/2018/12/19/syllabus-elizabeth-warren-cherokee-citizenship-and-dna-testing
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2020 22:38
|
|
|
Personally what I would like to see is the moderates like Bernie and AOC actually given the opportunity to enact moderate policy like a living wage. It would materially change millions of peoples lives for the better immediately. Instead we have Joe Biden plagiarizing the policy initiatives of the republican party of the eighties.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2020 22:51
|
|
|
Epicurius posted:Neoconservativism arose in the late 60s-early 70s, mostly as a reaction to the New Left, with its major flagship publication being [i]Public Interest[/b]. The term was first used by Michael Harrington in '73, and neoconservatives were all dug into the Nixon, Ford, and Reagan administration. Nixon and Reagan weren't really neoconservatives though. Nixon had too many social welfare ideas, and Reagan was much more of a culture warrior. I don't dispute that they had representation in their admins, but the real red meat stuff was the racism and culture war poo poo, which neocons aren't as concerned by. GWB was the first mostly neoconservative admin, and even though they had culture war trappings (god, country, patriotism etc.), they were overall fairly moderate and squishy compared to what the evangelical theocratic base wanted.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2020 23:02
|
|
|
joepinetree posted:*After she started running for president and the DNA test blew up on her face* and to think, maybe if all that happened before standing rock, she would have said something about it before the matter was basically already settled
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2020 23:04
|
|
|
joepinetree posted:*After she started running for president and the DNA test blew up on her face* dont worry, i wasn't suggesting a politician did something good unprompted
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2020 23:12
|
|
|
joepinetree posted:The idea that if a democrat was in office the pandemic would have been substantially different is a joke. It is complete wishful thinking.  ", you say. quote:First, the number of people who don't currently wear a mask but have an outsized respect for the office of the president and would wear one if the president said so is minuscule. quote:In February, President Donald Trump released his federal budget proposal for fiscal year 2021, calling for a cut of more than $693 million at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, as well as a $742 million cut to programs at the Health Resources and Services Administration. Overall, the president’s budget proposes a 9% funding cut at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, a 26% cut at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, massive cuts in Medicare and Medicaid spending, and funding decreases for safety net programs such as food and housing assistance. quote:Over the past three years, the Trump administration has drastically reduced a team working in China to identify spherical health threats like Covid-19, which originated in the Chinese city of Wuhan late last year. The initiative’s 11 CDC staffers have been cut to three people, while 39 workers classed as “local employees” have been reduced to 11 people. You are just objectively wrong on this. Trump Admin repeatedly tried to cut funding, then fired people anyway when Congress wouldn't bite. It is hilarious to quote sequestration as the real problem in a post arguing that blue=red. Obviously electing Clinton would not have eliminated the sequestration issue... but the proper response to right-wing nihilism and sabotage of the governments ability to effectively act is Vote Blue No Matter Who. A theoretical President Sanders would face identical obstructionism without a Blue sweep on senate seats. We discussed the NSC office earlier. It's executive-level staff used by the President to mobilize resources & expertise outside the usual boundaries of government departments. Obama admin found a combined office to be wholly insufficient to the challenge of dealing with a pandemic. It's a difference of priorities and tools at hand. A terrorism official is concerned about Jack Ryan bullshit like terrorists importing Ebola to assassinate the president. A pandemic official knows that pandemics don't know borders, and its essential to attack the problem as fast as possible with as many resources as possible. The initial Ebola response actively ran into issues like that, which is why the Ebola Czar was appointed with the sole directive of containing the infection. The experience was formalized as a separate office; it's ridiculous to assert Clinton, a major Obama-era official, would have disbanded it, appointed John loving Bolton, or otherwise acted similar to Trump on this issue. Trump appointed Jared as Ebola Czar. Even leaving aside that Jared & friends are idiots, he also has like 20 other Czar Hats. This would be in contrast to a dedicated office run by people with experience in the field and with this exact problem (pandemic response) who are just looking for an issue to leap on at all times because it is their purview in the first place. Trump admin treated the possibility and actuality of a pandemic with utmost unseriousness at every level: personally, professionally, and rhetorically. 'Jared's got this' then just ignore Jared's lame plan anyway. Even if a theoretical Clinton team organized a response only days earlier, those days would have made a difference! quote:Third, the idea that blue states are handling this better is also a joke. The 4 states with a death rate higher than 1000 per million are NY, NJ, MA and CT. The 5 states with the highest rt right now are HI, SD, MN, WA and WI This is some real lies/damnlies/statistics poo poo right here.You cite four states that were initial epicenters of the infection but are currently engaging in effective containment relative tot he nation, and arguing they're loving it up. You then pivot to another statistic (which shows those four states doing very good or at least decently) that shows mostly red states doing poorly. Every state (excepting NH) that doesn't have a mandatory mask policy is a red state. Many R-governors dragged out conducting any response until forced to. Many bragged that they were not doing anything about Covid and mocked blue states for their responses. Stuff you called for below like free covid healthcare and generous unemployment have been much bigger priorities in blue states than red. I.E. WA state got wrecked by an absolutely enormous amount of fraud because of weak restrictions on unemployment claims. There's a lot of poo poo across the board like this. quote:Fourth, the policies that have been found to actually work are: You'd be on firmer ground if you called out lockdowns as the only thing that works (arguably true). Biden has waffled on that. But the federal government also doesn't actually have that power... at least in theory. Would depend on SCOTUS's opinion. How big a difference would a more serious and faster response made? It's unknowable. However, I am not content to chalk it up to , and pretending that the response would have been the same is asking me and everyone else to ignore how Trump acted. Trump literally didn't care, he belittled the concept of doing anything about it, he claimed victory over the virus and stopped giving a poo poo *multiple times*. Everything he and the government has done he had to be dragged into doing, and his #1 concern was always seizing credit and putting himself front and center.Ruzihm posted:When you're ready to provide evidence that the report's recommendation of "adopt the House proposal [which is that congress should be able to shrink the NSC by witholding approval]" (instead of something along the lines of "don't adopt any proposal", by the way) would not include reducing the size of the pandemic team, I'll be ready to read it. Those talking about the problems with earmarks are definitely trying to eliminate the Happy Animal Friends For Orphans petting zoo, supported solely by earmarks. What? No, it's ludicrous to suggest there's other ways of funding the zoo other than earmarks. The paper you linked is clearly a process argument, arguing the NSC had grown to the point to the point of an agency rather than just being advisory; this does not exclude the existence of a pandemic office. Such an office could have been established as an agency separate from the NSC, or the lion's share of the staff moved from the NSC back to other agencies while the bureaucratic structure(a specific coordinating official for pandemic response) remained intact. Trump endorsed massive cuts because he didn't actually give a poo poo about any of that, Jared was all the NSC he needed or wanted. Trump even confused cuts to the NSC with cuts he made to the CDC staff...which seems somewhat on point. The paper, which i am assuming you did not read, concludes that the correct path forward is to not limit the NSC's size, but instead require congressional approval for the head if the NSC is above 100 personnel. Maybe don't double down in the future without reading your own links. TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Aug 18, 2020 |
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2020 23:15
|
|
|
TheDeadlyShoe posted:O Great Seer, you speak with such certainty. "Why even try, Google better before you dare say anyone is objectively wrong, you dishonest shill.    quote:
4 out of the 5 states with the highest rt right now have democratic governors https://rt.live/ quote:This is some real lies/damnlies/statistics poo poo right here.You cite four states that were initial epicenters of the infection but are currently engaging in effective containment relative tot he nation, and arguing they're loving it up. You then pivot to another statistic (which shows those four states doing very good or at least decently) that shows mostly red states doing poorly. https://joebiden.com/covid19/ quote:Providing Guaranteed Emergency Paid Sick Leave and Care-Giving Leave The above requires 12 months of continuous employment quote:This emergency plan will provide reimbursement to employers or, when necessary, direct payment to workers for up to 14 days of paid sick leave or for the duration of mandatory quarantine or isolation. quote:
Sounds like a democrat wouldn't have made a difference, then, huh? Much like the federal government wouldn't have the power to regulate mandatory masks. quote:How big a difference would a more serious and faster response made? It's unknowable. However, I am not content to chalk it up to A more serious response certainly wouldn't have come from democrats, since in the middle of march Cuomo was mocking the idea of a lockdown order and Biden was telling people to go vote in person It is amazing that you think that citing things unrelated to claims you made make any difference. Edit: like, seriously, half of your arguments for why Democrats would totally do much better are actually about why they wouldn't. Yeah, they couldn't do away with sequestration, and yeah, they wouldn't be able to mandate a lockdown, and yeah they wouldn't be able to mandate masks federally... joepinetree fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Aug 19, 2020 |
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2020 23:43
|
|
|
selec posted:I really do envy your faith about what the master’s tools can accomplish. it doesn't help when the house just sort of bursts into flames and they insist that the tools must be the cause
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2020 23:48
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1295863157018198016?s=21 😬
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2020 00:31
|
|
|
Framing this election as the John McCain v. Donald Trump matchup we never got seems a really good way to lose, but what would I know!
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2020 00:32
|
|
|
lol no way hahahaha
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2020 00:32
|
|
|
the war crimes defender has logged on
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2020 00:33
|
|
|
Lol they keep topping themselves
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2020 00:37
|
|
|
This is legitimately infuriating
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2020 00:38
|
|
|
gwb WILL speak before the convention is over
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2020 00:38
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/MaxKennerly/status/1295867232476684289?s=19
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2020 00:39
|
|
|
Henry Kissinger was too busy? They had to settle for the living secretary of state with the second highest body count?
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2020 00:39
|
|
|
You think democrats are weak kneed Sallys? Cmon man, you know joe bidens the democrat republicans can trust to cover up war crimes, and that's no malarkey.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2020 00:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 14:38 |
|
|
joepinetree posted:Henry Kissinger was too busy? They had to settle for the living secretary of state with the second highest body count? no Hillary is not speaking tonight
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2020 00:40
|
|