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capitalism kills another revolution? Surely not!
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Aug 19, 2020 01:43
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Paladinus posted:I hope they can salvage this, I just don't see how. isn't the unifying anger more anti lukashenko than pro tikhanovskaya?
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Aug 19, 2020 01:54
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Rinkles posted:isn't the unifying anger more anti lukashenko than pro tikhanovskaya? Well, yes. But at some point there need to be people who can represent the protest. Tikhanovskaya's council tried to be that. And then they've pretty much discredited themselves even before officially announcing who's on the council. I might be an exception, but reading comments under news articles in non-state-owned media, there are many people who are as baffled as I am. Protests may continue, just like they started, without any leaders, but propagandists will have a field day with smearing all protesters as crazy nazis now, and without someone who can speak for the people with authority, it's impossible to refute it. Maybe someone who helped factory workers organise, and who can clearly distance themselves from the toxic reform package, will emerge as the leader soon. Maybe I'm panicing too soon, I don't know. It's definitely a huge blow, though. All it took was probably one intern in presidential administration who actually clicked through a bunch of links after a whole week of protests! Armando Iannucci was right to step away from political satire, you can't out-satire the reality.
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Aug 19, 2020 02:14
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Rinkles posted:isn't the unifying anger more anti lukashenko than pro tikhanovskaya? If throwing out Lukashenko means unleashing rabid dogs on country's economy, many people would pause and re-think that position. From watching and reading reports, many just want freedom to choose. Not an immediate restructuring of every system under government control.
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Aug 19, 2020 02:17
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If the protests result in elections in the next month would that be enough time for another candidate/party to emerge. You guys got a third party that usually takes a back seat?
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Aug 19, 2020 03:42
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French Canadian posted:If the protests result in elections in the next month would that be enough time for another candidate/party to emerge. You guys got a third party that usually takes a back seat? There is no second OR first party. In some slightly more positive news, local authorities in Grodno are organising some sort of a council of their own to facilitate dialogue. Maybe something will come out of that.
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Aug 19, 2020 04:03
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French Canadian posted:If the protests result in elections in the next month would that be enough time for another candidate/party to emerge. You guys got a third party that usually takes a back seat? Authoritarian regimes breed power vacuums and birth them when they fall. Kinda hard to have a vibrant scene of good candidates when your political landscape is defined by promoting people who slavishly support the current regime, especially one as focused on the individual as Lukashenko's.
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Aug 19, 2020 05:29
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Paladinus posted:Protests may continue, just like they started, without any leaders, but propagandists will have a field day with smearing all protesters as crazy nazis now, and without someone who can speak for the people with authority, it's impossible to refute it. Lukashanka is calling protesters nazis (even showing neonazi tatoos on TV ), uneployed parasites, drunks... from day one. So they will just continue. And probably most of council will end in KGB prison, beaten to submission, so there is no need to be afraid of capitalsm in Belarus. https://tass.com/world/1191079 MINSK, August 18. /TASS/. Creation of the opposition’s Coordination Council is a coup attempt, and adequate measures will be taken against the initiators of this idea, Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko said Tuesday. "They [the opposition] toss us another side. And demand to hand over the power, no less. Thus, we view it unambiguously: this is an attempt of a coup, with all ensuing consequences," Lukashenko said during his meeting with the Belarusian Security Council, according to BelTA news agency. EU didnt recognize Lukashenka as president: https://112.international/politics/meps-announce-lukashenko-persona-non-grata-in-eu-53957.html Canada too: https://www.canada.ca/en/global-affairs/news/2020/08/statement-by-minister-champagne-on-belarusian-presidential-elections.html And already all talking points in State TV: https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1295745995293286400 HorseBodyInspector fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Aug 19, 2020 |
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Aug 19, 2020 06:01
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HorseBodyInspector posted:Rumors that Russia FSB director arrived in Minsk (or at least somebody important from FSB ) "Your escape plane has arrived, Sir."
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Aug 19, 2020 06:15
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Striking state broadcaster employees were not let into the building today. They instead found they’ve been replaced by “two planeloads” of russian media workers now manning their positions.
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Aug 19, 2020 09:44
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Edit: accidentally hit "Send Post" button while gathering URLs. Reports now indicating that striking workers at state industries are being targeted by the Lukashenko regime. Media in particular are both being targeted and temporarily replaced with staff from Russia: https://twitter.com/HannaLiubakova/status/1295996848088506370 https://twitter.com/Den_2042/status/1295989499638538240 https://twitter.com/franakviacorka/status/1295987709769637888 Scattered reports of both Russian and Belarusian military mobilizing near the border (which makes sense, honestly--if poo poo does go down, may as well have bodies at the ready), but the little green men this go round are apparently more in newsrooms than military sites. Qtotonibudinibudet fucked around with this message at 09:54 on Aug 19, 2020 |
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Aug 19, 2020 09:46
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HorseBodyInspector posted:Lukashanka is calling protesters nazis (even showing neonazi tatoos on TV ), uneployed parasites, drunks... from day one. So they will just continue. Well, it's not exactly the same as saying 'Trump is going to call Biden a socialist anyway, so Biden might as well do something socialism-adjacent'. Banning Russian media, NATO, creation of a new church, belarusisation, and everything else was in the reform package linked on Tikhanovskaya's website. It's one thing when propaganda creates a narrative out of thin air, and another when they only omit some facts. What state media are spreading is not untrue. Tikhanovskaya's team also understood how toxic it was, deleted the more outrageous parts, but pretended they were never there. How can I trust them after a lie on day zero? I still support the protests, but my strong opinion right now is that the council shouldn't be their face, as it stands.
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Aug 19, 2020 09:51
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Paladinus posted:Well, it's not exactly the same as saying 'Trump is going to call Biden a socialist anyway, so Biden might as well do something socialism-adjacent'. Banning Russian media, NATO, creation of a new church, belarusisation, and everything else was in the reform package linked on Tikhanovskaya's website. It's one thing when propaganda creates a narrative out of thin air, and another when they only omit some facts. What state media are spreading is not untrue. Tikhanovskaya's team also understood how toxic it was, deleted the more outrageous parts, but pretended they were never there. How can I trust them after a lie on day zero? Edit again: I'm doing all sorts of a good job today at accidentally hitting my tab key and enter key in quick succession. Now we enter the more complicated phase of things: the initial "gently caress knows, elections in X days is our only demand" approach is crumbling, and god knows who is trying to seize the situation for their own ends. There's not much ground for Lukashenko to stand on, but also not really a solid platform for any opposition leaders to stand on either, and a lot of players with an interest in trying to co-opt the latter. poo poo's all a mess. The Tikhanovskaya/Tsepkalo/Kolesnikova team is in disarray and pulled in many directions, the protests on the ground aren't entirely coordinated, and the Lukashenko state apparatus is cobbling something together, god knows what. Last week was long, and this week doesn't appear to be much shorter :| Qtotonibudinibudet fucked around with this message at 10:10 on Aug 19, 2020 |
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Aug 19, 2020 09:57
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What do the reform plans that don't involve privatisation look like? Privatisation of at least the media seems kinda unavoidable to me.
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Aug 19, 2020 09:59
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Paladinus posted:Well, it's not exactly the same as saying 'Trump is going to call Biden a socialist anyway, so Biden might as well do something socialism-adjacent'. Banning Russian media, NATO, creation of a new church, belarusisation, and everything else was in the reform package linked on Tikhanovskaya's website. It's one thing when propaganda creates a narrative out of thin air, and another when they only omit some facts. What state media are spreading is not untrue. Tikhanovskaya's team also understood how toxic it was, deleted the more outrageous parts, but pretended they were never there. How can I trust them after a lie on day zero? Lukashenka is lying and beating own people from the beggining, for 20+ years. Anyway Tikhanovskaya is just one person, which he forcefully kicked out of the country. People were continue to protest without her presence, so I doubt it will change anything. If protestets die out it will be because Lukashenka successfully managed to beat poo poo of his own people again. And he will be even more financially depended on Russia/China goodwill then he is now, which will surely not affect how Belarusians feel towards Russia. And: "Both sides are same" is bullshit. Also "Both sides are not same, BUT .... is even bigger bullshit. Plus I really dont care about Biden and comparing USA to Belarus make no sense. And another man died /was killed by police : https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1296005354250272768 edit: CMYK BLYAT! wrote it much better then I ever could. HorseBodyInspector fucked around with this message at 11:08 on Aug 19, 2020 |
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Aug 19, 2020 11:02
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No. There is a very real risk that if the protesters (and the “leaders”) keep taking controversial and divisive positions, the protests can die out without Luka doing much of anything. Anecdotally, it seems there were fewer people protesting on the streets yesterday than the day before. Suka blya, I hope this is not a start of a trend.
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Aug 19, 2020 13:16
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Seems that FSB plane brings new tactics. Russian involvement is becomimg more apparent New pro-russian oposition party emerged: https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1296023905782685702 Border are reinforced to prevent NATO/EU invasion: https://twitter.com/RFERL/status/1296050709159452672 OMON back in full strenght: https://twitter.com/HannaLiubakova/status/1296033739152261120 https://twitter.com/franakviacorka/status/1295994903755923456 https://twitter.com/HannaLiubakova/status/1295978427552538625 https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1296070397352452096
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Aug 19, 2020 14:34
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GABA ghoul posted:What do the reform plans that don't involve privatisation look like? Privatisation of at least the media seems kinda unavoidable to me. gently caress privatization.
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Aug 19, 2020 15:10
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The demonstration ran for 9 days straight, they had to run out of steam eventually, these are also first days of less than perfect weather - it was warm a sunny throughout, up until yesterday. Luka still commands a seizable government apparatus, and it took *9 days* for him to be able to muster any response other than OMON. Now it’s a matter of how well the opposition will rally on the next weekend.
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Aug 19, 2020 15:43
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Sorry to gum up this thread with off-topic poo poo, but would any of y’all who know a lot about Polish commerce be willing to help me out with something? I’m trying to arrange a big purchase from a place in Poland, and I just need to ask a couple of questions. I can take this to PMs if necessary. Time is a major factor, though; ideally I’d like to get all my poo poo figured out in the next few hours, or at least before midnight tonight, but I dunno how possible that is. I. M. Gei fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Aug 19, 2020 |
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Aug 19, 2020 22:58
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I. M. Gei posted:Sorry to gum up this thread with off-topic poo poo, but would any of y’all who know a lot about Polish commerce be willing to help me out with something? I’m trying to arrange a big purchase from a place in Poland, and I just need to ask a couple of questions. Make sure you're buying in Eastern Poland.
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Aug 19, 2020 23:47
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mobby_6kl posted:Make sure you're buying in Eastern Poland. Are Tarnów or Katowice in Eastern Poland? Mostly I just need to know if layaway is a thing in Poland or not. I need to pay for this thing I’m buying using some sort of installment plan, and the guy I’ve been talking to suggested I pay with a credit card, which I...... don’t have. Unless a BBVA debit card has a magical credit card-like payment feature that I don’t know about. I’d like to set up some kind of layaway account for this, but if I can’t do that then probably my only other options would all involve me having to have a very uncomfortable conversation with my bank about loans and poo poo.
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Aug 20, 2020 01:03
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Paladinus posted:Okay, there's a pretty big scandal a-brewing with the council. Lukashenko's fearmongering about nationalists behind Tikhanovskaya wasn't completely off-base. Despite what council members said today about knowing nothing about such weird things for a political platform in Belarus as creation of an independent Belarusian Orthodox church and ban of all Russian media, Tikhanovskaya's official platform actually included a link to the website with this insanity. who could have predicted this
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Aug 20, 2020 01:58
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ing ties with anyone who even as much as touched this political poison could help, including Tikhanovskaya herself if needed. But even then it's not going to be easy to come back from that with the constant barrage of Russian and Belarusian state propaganda just showing screenshots non-stop. Thanks for sabotaging yet another attempt at getting rid of Lukashenko, you toxic nationalist nutters! Going to be such a waste of a historical protest movement, if they just continue lying about it and continue to associate with those idiots. I hope they can salvage this, I just don't see how.
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meanwhile https://twitter.com/golub/status/1296304269256261632
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Aug 20, 2020 05:48
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I. M. Gei posted:Are Tarnów or Katowice in Eastern Poland? I don't recall ever seeing such an option when buying online, but I could've been blind. From what I understand, the issue isn't the transfer of money per se, but that you don't have the full amount available?
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Aug 20, 2020 06:46
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Ghost of Mussolini posted:wow no way Yeah, that's what you get when you systematically marginalize, exile, jail or kill off all realistic political opponents over a period of decades - only the lunatics remain. You see the same poo poo in all "managed democracies" like Russia etc.
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Aug 20, 2020 06:50
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I. M. Gei posted:Are Tarnów or Katowice in Eastern Poland? Tarnów yes. I don't think I've ever seen layaway per se but some large online retailers can have different payment plans like buy now pay 3 months later, or pay 30% now etc. If it's a smaller seller just ask them, I'm sure they'd gladly take your money 
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Aug 20, 2020 07:17
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Navalny just got polonied. I wonder who did that 
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Aug 20, 2020 07:43
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mmkay posted:From what I understand, the issue isn't the transfer of money per se, but that you don't have the full amount available? Yyyyyyyeeeeeeaaah, pretty much. This thing I’m trying to buy is gonna run me a little over $2800, and I’ve only got a few hundred in my checking account right now. I have a job that pays more than enough for me to make monthly payments of like $600 or more. I just don’t have the full amount of money at this exact moment, and my credit rating is abject dogshit so I was hoping to avoid anything that’d involve a credit check. Normally I’d just wait to buy something like this until I have enough cash to pay for it entirely, but the item in question is a super limited edition, and one of the last new ones of it’s kind in existence. On top of that, it’s also on sale at a killer price; it’s actually several hundred bucks cheaper than the regular non-limited-edition thing. I need to bite on that if at all possible, and unfortunately I don’t have the option of waiting.
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Aug 20, 2020 08:46
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I. M. Gei posted:Yyyyyyyeeeeeeaaah, pretty much. This thing I’m trying to buy is gonna run me a little over $2800, and I’ve only got a few hundred in my checking account right now. I have a job that pays more than enough for me to make monthly payments of like $600 or more. I just don’t have the full amount of money at this exact moment, and my credit rating is abject dogshit so I was hoping to avoid anything that’d involve a credit check. Huh, I think buying intercontinentally on credit, especially for rare items, is going to be a tough sell. Maybe a friend or colleague can front the money somehow?
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Aug 20, 2020 09:02
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This reminds me of when I tried facilitating an extremely rare collectors item sale to a businessman in Sweden. We had a couple guys physically procuring this WW2 era gate sign in southern Poland but the businessman insisted on paying in three installments so the numb-nuts split the sign in three pieces. Talk about value loss!
Anne Frank Funk fucked around with this message at 09:46 on Aug 20, 2020 |
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Aug 20, 2020 09:16
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Anne Frank Funk posted:This reminds me of when I tried facilitating an extremely rare collectors item sale to a businessmen in Sweden. We had a couple guys physically procuring this WW2 era gate sign in southern Poland but the business man insisted on paying in three installments so the numb-nuts split the sign in three pieces. Talk about value loss! https://i.imgur.com/XS5LK.gifv
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Aug 20, 2020 09:37
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I. M. Gei posted:Are Tarnów or Katowice in Eastern Poland? Layaway/installment plans is a thing everywhere, but you are not gonna get it as an international buyer because the seller/credit bank has no way to enforce it legally in your jurisdiction nor do they have a way to check your credit score. You could just stop paying and keep the product and there would be nothing in the world that they/the bank could do about it. Maybe try paying with paypal? IRC they have an option to settle the payment with a couple months delay(which is basically a short term loan).
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Aug 20, 2020 09:37
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Tafferling posted:Navalny just got polonied. Strange how after facing no consequences for any previous killings abroad or domestically these things keep happening. But hey, can't say no to cheap natural gas and oligarch money from the mafia state!
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Aug 20, 2020 09:45
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I've never used layway but I understood the difference vs installments is that the seller keeps the goods until the full payment is made, you just make sure they don't sell it to someone else in the meantime. Then if you don't pay it in full (or they're just assholes) they can just sell it to someone else.Tafferling posted:Navalny just got polonied.  Maybe he did't want to feel alone?
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Aug 20, 2020 09:48
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Tafferling posted:Navalny just got polonied. One suspicion is that his tea was poisoned, as that was the only thing before his flight. Should have taken coffee.
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Aug 20, 2020 12:06
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Nenonen posted:One suspicion is that his tea was poisoned, as that was the only thing before his flight. Should have taken coffee. Maybe he had fish on the plane? That's always a mistake.
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Aug 20, 2020 13:19
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mobby_6kl posted:I've never used layaway but I understood the difference vs installments is that the seller keeps the goods until the full payment is made, you just make sure they don't sell it to someone else in the meantime. Then if you don't pay it in full (or they're just assholes) they can just sell it to someone else. Bingo! So I guess I’m wondering, what is the Polish word for “layaway”?
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Aug 20, 2020 13:49
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I. M. Gei posted:Bingo! "Zaliczka" is the closest equivalent I can think of, but it's not 1:1. It's just not a widely (or even at all) practiced method of payment in Poland.
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Aug 20, 2020 14:07
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https://twitter.com/SevaUT/status/1296396890133737472 I fear that this is exactly what happened, just as when Chechens murdered Nemtsov in the heart of Moscow
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Aug 20, 2020 15:21
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