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Lamuella posted:How much would you have to be paid to sit in catering? Depends on who I am in this scenario. Me as in myself? Maybe $200k. Cody Rhodes? Like ten million dollars. Mike Bennett? Also $200k.
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Aug 18, 2020 12:26
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Also factor in that plane tickets and hotel rooms have to come out of that pay. And as well as all the duties you listed, you will be yelled at periodically by a senile old man for reasons that no-one but him is able to understand.
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Aug 18, 2020 12:43
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That's a lot of jobs, though.
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Aug 18, 2020 12:44
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Lamuella posted:How much would you have to be paid to sit in catering? If I were a wrestler who had been doing this for like 10-15 years and got a three-year deal when they were still doing those, I could see the appeal of getting a three-year paid vacation to rest my body and occasionally wrestle until my deal was up and I could go back to the indies or something. But as others have noted, you also have to deal with Vince's insanity. Not everybody could skate by somehow unnoticed and probably unbothered for so long like JTG seemingly did. I don't know what the right number would be, but I can definitely see the appeal of it for some very specific situations.
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Aug 18, 2020 14:52
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El Gallinero Gros posted:One of the things that killed him was having a stinker with Waltman fairly early in his run (Hall and Nash buried him to Vince afterwards) so ultimately it might not have helped. In the long run, I doubt that much changes for Shane. If anything he may have fallen apart physically a lot faster. In ECW, he was only working about 5-6 matches a month before he turned to dust in late '97-early '98. In the only month he was on the road full time as Dean Douglas, September 1995, he wrestled (at least; we could be missing results) double that. And when he fell apart, he fell apart HARD, going from one of the best workers in the country to a immobile old man.
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Aug 18, 2020 17:38
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Summerslam questions! 1. How big was Summerslam back when it was the only other WWF PPV after Wrestlemania? Did people lap it up? 2. What is the best Summerslam? 92 and 02 get mentioned a lot. 3. What are the best Summerslam matches? Bret v Perfect 91 Bret v Bulldog 92 Bret v Owen 94 HHH v Rock 98 TLC 00 Austin v Angle 01 HBK vs HHH 02 Rock v Lesnar 02 Lesnar v Angle 03 Punk v Lesnar 13
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Aug 19, 2020 02:04
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Question re: sitting in catering. Do you have to attend all the shows? Surely if you are not booked, they wouldn't require you to fly/drive out, or participate in the loop. I know Vince is insane, and will change matches, and add people on a whim 5 minutes before broadcast, so he probably wants as many bodies there as he can. But surely "I wasn't booked that night/week/month" is a valid excuse to stay home with your family instead of renting your own car to drive around doing nothing. Also, lets say you are in "sitting in catering" limbo and are at a RAW or Smackdown. Do you get in trouble for being late or leaving early? I mean you weren't on the show, nor required to do anything on said show. So why would anyone care?
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Aug 19, 2020 05:21
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if you dare to leave early they try to guilt trip you with "we decided to give you a shot but we couldn't find you!" and then try you in wrestler's court. they tried doing that to paul london before he quit but he just asked two of the agents if there was any truth to it and they told him not at all. if you show up late its usually at least a 4 figure fine. hell even just visiting backstage is a risk. jimmy yang was just backstage hanging out once (this was years after he was let go) and vince decided he was gonna wrestle super crazy. yang told him he didnt work for him and didnt even bring any gear. vince had someone draw up contract papers and told him just go out there as he was. STING 64 fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Aug 19, 2020 |
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Aug 19, 2020 06:00
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justin gabriel was going to be made a huge star on the same day he finally took off
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Aug 19, 2020 06:01
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Cavauro posted:justin gabriel was going to be made a huge star on the same day he finally took off man literally walked out of the WWE before the Royal Rumble to go skydiving, king poo poo
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Aug 19, 2020 06:07
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As I understand it, nobody has any idea who's wrestling who until they get to the venue and see it written on a big white board. And of course, nobody has any idea what the show's format is going to be until the drat thing goes live, because Vince McMahon is a crazy person. With that knowledge, how can anyone do anything other than keep showing up day after day, hoping to see their name on that stupid white board?
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Aug 19, 2020 06:12
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Breitbart Is Rightbart posted:Summerslam questions!
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Aug 19, 2020 08:11
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Can we ask for opinions in here? I know you all are far more versed in wrestling history and lore than I am and I want tog get your view on something. What do you think of wrestling even while injured, of maintaining kayfabe even after a real injury occurs in a match? Should the bell just be rung and end it immediately or try to continue to some finish? I know of a few notable instances. Jericho tried to rush to a finish with Neville after the latter rolled his ankle but in another Jericho match, Trips went through everything with his quad torn. Nobody would have faulted him if he did nothing but he refused to just stop it and he did his part for the match. over in WCW, I remember Raven and Kanyon vs. Villano IV & Villano V where Raven and the ref just stopped everything immediately when they realized things went south. Meanwhile the guy's brother seemingly tried to keep up the illusion, half-heartedly attacking Kanyon while Raven looked after his brother's neck. And poor Sid had his leg snapped in half and they didn't just call for a bell, they had to do a finish. I remember when Silver King died and Meltzer talked about how, even though the sort of cultish secrecy and kayfabe obsession has long since died out, they didn't just end things immediately when they realized something was wrong.
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Aug 19, 2020 08:38
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NikkolasKing posted:Can we ask for opinions in here? I know you all are far more versed in wrestling history and lore than I am and I want tog get your view on something. It's an old mindset that needs to go. The approach should be to make wrestling appear more legitimate. Matches can be stopped for injury, and it doesn't hurt kayfabe or storylines. Referees should wear gloves. And if something like Owen's fall happens again, the show should be stopped.
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Aug 19, 2020 14:42
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Sin Cara/Caristico jammed his finger real bad after doing a tope to Alberto Del Rio and waved the match off. Del Rio responded by kicking the poo poo out of him, and I remember a lot of fans online giving Sin Cara crap about being a big crybaby. https://youtu.be/28A2xkJIGys Caristico is notoriously a huge rear end in a top hat behind the scenes, but it still sucks to get legit hurt midmatch and looking back it was definitely the right call, especially for a big nothing-match on free TV.
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Aug 19, 2020 15:46
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Red posted:It's an old mindset that needs to go. 100%. It’s just tough guy nonsense. I like to think things are changing with matches being called off for concussions now, so perhaps in the future that’ll apply to torn quads and dislocated fingers too.
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Aug 19, 2020 16:16
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BodyMassageMachine posted:Sin Cara/Caristico jammed his finger real bad after doing a tope to Alberto Del Rio and waved the match off. Del Rio responded by kicking the poo poo out of him, and I remember a lot of fans online giving Sin Cara crap about being a big crybaby. This ref loving rules, though, for not taking any of Del Rio's poo poo. Drags him out of the ring then shoves him back into a corner afterward. At least the ref and the doctor were trying to look out for Sin Cara. I'd say the continuing a match thing is probably largely subjective and comes down to the person. There's a difference between getting hurt and getting injured, and I'm sure a lot of people continue after being hurt in a match. I'd say as a blanket statement, if you can continue the match or safely go home immediately when a legit injury happens then go for it? Like, if you gently caress up your knee and know you can't work another 10 minutes but can grab a quick roll-up to end the match then maybe do that. Obviously with more serious injuries (or death) everything should take a pause. Thing is, though, it's a culture built on working hurt and I'm sure there's a lot of pride in working through even a major injury in a match like Triple H's quad tear. It's insane that he'd keep working the match after that, but it's probably one of his proudest moments and a reason other wrestlers would do the same if the same thing happened to them.
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Aug 19, 2020 16:16
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Ganso Bomb posted:This ref loving rules, though, for not taking any of Del Rio's poo poo. Drags him out of the ring then shoves him back into a corner afterward. At least the ref and the doctor were trying to look out for Sin Cara. It's pretty easily his most badass moment and that's the problem isn't it? The notion of celebrating strength is ingrained in not only the consciousness of wrestlers but in humanity. It's hard to look at what he did there and not think that it was a stunning display of man's mastery over himself, but that's us glorifying suffering. It's an ugly situation and one has to ask themselves things like 'Is this a necessary facet of the human condition'. Maybe I'm getting a little too meta here.
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Aug 19, 2020 16:26
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davidbix posted:...is Shane notoriously full of poo poo, though? Maybe more so after he got clean and mostly retired, but he generally strikes me as pretty honest. Especially since the Clique burial stuff has been corroborated quite a bit in the decades since he initially went public. Shane is notorious for overrating himself and blaming everyone else in the business for his inability to get beyond a certain level career-wise. In the Clique's case he wasn't wrong, but he was enough of an rear end in a top hat to sabotage himself even without them and he was never good enough to compensate for it.
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Aug 19, 2020 16:31
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Red posted:It's an old mindset that needs to go.
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Aug 19, 2020 16:36
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There is no loving reason that the Summerslam '97 match should have continued once it was obvious Owen had broken Austin's neck. Watching his head flop around as he pulls off a weak rollup to end the match is sickening.
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Aug 19, 2020 16:56
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Pope Corky the IX posted:There is no loving reason that the Summerslam '97 match should have continued once it was obvious Owen had broken Austin's neck. Watching his head flop around as he pulls off a weak rollup to end the match is sickening. Yeah, legit injuries should end matches, booking be damned. It's better for the "wrong guy" to have the championship or whatever than for someone to risk further serious injury. This should ESPECIALLY be the case for neck injuries.
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Aug 19, 2020 17:16
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Yeah just call it a no contest and adjust the booking afterwards. KayfabE is dead and people have seen enough stoppages in MMA to be used to them. In fact more matches should be called by refs for cool poo poo like Kayfabe knockouts
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Aug 19, 2020 17:24
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Pope Corky the IX posted:There is no loving reason that the Summerslam '97 match should have continued once it was obvious Owen had broken Austin's neck. Watching his head flop around as he pulls off a weak rollup to end the match is sickening. Yeah, for sure. Plus, and this is very non-important considering the severity of the injury, but it just made the match and finish look bizarre and freakish. Ausin meekly rolls Owen up and can't bring himself to apply any pressure or weight to the rollup so Owen is just laying there like a turtle on its back. It just highlighted the fact that the injury was incredibly serious and made everything worse. I get that one guy was supposed to win but now he has a broken neck, but loving call something on the fly and do the carny thing wrestling has always done – take a real injury/beef/situation and spin it to make money down the road.
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Aug 19, 2020 18:05
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Ganso Bomb posted:Yeah, for sure. Plus, and this is very non-important considering the severity of the injury, but it just made the match and finish look bizarre and freakish. Ausin meekly rolls Owen up and can't bring himself to apply any pressure or weight to the rollup so Owen is just laying there like a turtle on its back. It just highlighted the fact that the injury was incredibly serious and made everything worse. I get that one guy was supposed to win but now he has a broken neck, but loving call something on the fly and do the carny thing wrestling has always done – take a real injury/beef/situation and spin it to make money down the road. they did spin it to make money, and it was glorious 
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Aug 19, 2020 18:21
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Yeah, it should go without saying that if a guy wants to finish the match with a sprained hand, okay, but anything that would get you pulled from a contact sport is right out.
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Aug 19, 2020 18:24
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Yeah. Head/neck/spine injuries should be treated immediately but if someone wants to finish a match with a busted quad or broken hand I say sure, whatever.
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Aug 19, 2020 18:32
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Smoking Crow posted:they did spin it to make money, and it was glorious Oh for sure, they just should have thought a little quicker during the match for Austin's safety. But who knows, he was also very adamant about finishing and wouldn't let anyone stop the match. They didn't have ringside doctors they way they have now, did they? I assume it would've worked out way differently with today's safeguards in place.
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Aug 19, 2020 18:33
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Halloween Jack posted:I mean it might hurt a storyline, but capitalizing on real stuff that happens is a basic responsibility of booking. I have nothing else to add. You can always spin something as needed, so I'd never worry about an injury hurting a match or story outcome. The Owen/Austin match should have been stopped. The weak rollup actually hurt suspension of disbelief.
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Aug 19, 2020 18:47
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Red posted:Virgil could have had a little more shelf life if they'd moved DiBiase to Money Inc. sooner, and skipped the Repo Man thing, and just plugged Virgil into a tag team. I mean, Virgil still sucked, but they could've milked that feud a little longer. IRS technically debuted as Virgil won the $$$ belt, so I'm not sure why they didn't just connect those dots earlier than they did. I guess they did connect those dots. DiBiase and IRS seemed to debut as a team called 'Money, Inc.' on 10/22/91: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7ni7gb Wikipedia says they debuted in February '92, but this obviously predates that.
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Aug 19, 2020 19:43
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Halloween Jack posted:Yeah, it should go without saying that if a guy wants to finish the match with a sprained hand, okay, but anything that would get you pulled from a contact sport is right out. You know, it makes me wonder if guys who work stiff/snug are just assholes.
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Aug 19, 2020 20:35
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Yeah, there's degrees. Like, Owens finishing his NXT debut even though Juice busted his nose isn't a big deal. But the WWE mentality of not being able to call an audible like in that Neville/PAC incident where Jericho nearly got in a fight with the ref is just dumb.
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Aug 19, 2020 21:49
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Red posted:You know, it makes me wonder if guys who work stiff/snug are just assholes. I mean, it depends on what type of stiff you're talking about. There's a big difference between "Ishii throwing hard chops to heighten the physical struggle of the bout" and "the Steiners dropping jobbers on their heads for shits and giggles."
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Aug 19, 2020 21:49
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My thing with real life injuries in wrestling matches is how the ref doing the X sign is now no longer kayfabe. Back in the olden days, if a ref did an X, then that meant something bad had happened, and it was a sign to doctors/people backstage that help was needed. And hopefully got. But now fans know what the X means, they incorporate it into stories, so the ref does the X, we see it and think "Oh no, he is real life injured", but instead they are just continuing a storyline. Which means if someone is real life injured, there are less ways to communicate that backstage, and for them to get the real life medical help they need. I.E. a wrestler does a bad bump and is really injured, so lies there in pain. The ref does the X, but backstage they think that wrestler and ref are just selling the bad bump. And as such the poor injured wrestler is forced to continue the match and furtehr gently caress up his body and/or get yelled at backstage for being weak when he doesn't do all the moves as scripted by WWE's insane micromanaging agents.
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Aug 20, 2020 02:09
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I would assume anyone who would be barking into headsets and earpieces would know whether or not an injury angle was booked and respond accordingly. Fans can't always be sure when the X is real but for my own sanity I have to believe Vince and whoever else is in gorilla knows.
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Aug 20, 2020 02:29
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also don't refs have mics back to gorilla?
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Aug 20, 2020 02:30
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karmicknight posted:also don't refs have mics back to gorilla? Yeah, which is part of why the X eventually became outdated and used in storylines. Anything the people in the back need to know the ref can relay to them much faster than goofy hand signals.
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Aug 20, 2020 02:33
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I always wondered if refs were miked. I know they have the earpiece but wasn't solid on them having a mic.
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Aug 20, 2020 02:41
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I've been thinking about Kenny Omega's IWGP reign and the perception that many fans thought that it was disappointing/underwhelming (not saying all - if you loved it, that's great. But many didn't). And yet it started with one of the greatest matches of all time and ended with one of the greatest matches of all time. Has any champion had a similar trajectory? Starts AND ends the reign with amazing high points but the actual reign itself is looked at in a negative or mediocre light.
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Aug 21, 2020 13:43
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tetsuya naito.
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Aug 21, 2020 13:46
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