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Aug 18, 2020 11:50
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https://twitter.com/momomo_us/status/1295695805383184385
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Aug 18, 2020 13:20
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That would be a fine platform for a "budget" system but apparently AMD won't allow overclocking on that chipset.
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Aug 18, 2020 13:26
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orcane posted:That would be a fine platform for a "budget" system but apparently AMD won't allow overclocking on that chipset. I mean a) people buying barebones boards generally don't care about overclocking, and b) at least with Zen 2 overclocking is kind of a waste anyway.
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Aug 18, 2020 14:34
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orcane posted:That would be a fine platform for a "budget" system but apparently AMD won't allow overclocking on that chipset. Does that also mean no iGPU and memory overclocking? It's not like you get anything from overclocking Zen2 CPUs but maybe that'll change with the next gen.
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Aug 18, 2020 14:47
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sean10mm posted:I mean a) people buying barebones boards generally don't care about overclocking, and b) at least with Zen 2 overclocking is kind of a waste anyway.
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Aug 18, 2020 15:04
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IMHO, should be stacked X570, B570, B550 and A520. B570 should be what B550 is now, and B550 should be better VRM setups but use the A520 chipset w/overclocking. Overclocking the iGPU should really be handled by Adrenaline, if it isn't already, but since A520 does allow memory overclocking, you can get about 90% of your performance with DDR4 3600/3800 and just slapping a decent cooler on it because the Vega iGPU handles very much like the Zen2 cores (the more thermal headroom you give it the more it'll stay at max boost clock, which is 2.1 on the higher end 4750G). A520 will support Cezanne (was this in question?) https://videocardz.com/newz/asus-confirms-a520-motherboards-to-support-cezanne-ryzen-5000g-apus My favorite part quote:Interestingly the slide does not confirm that ASUS will support Zen3 processors on B450 and X470 motherboards. A wide-spread criticism of AMD’s decision to abandon the 400-series platform for Zen3 processors has made AMD change this decision. The company did confirm that Zen3 support will require special BIOS which will be provided to its board partners. Apparently, ASUS does not plan to provide such support. "Offering the Zen3 BIOS for X470 and B450 sounds like work and I won't do it, even though my competitors are definitely going to do so. This is an extremely intelligent decision and I won't regret it"
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Aug 18, 2020 16:08
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Does ASUS seriously think they have a lot of goodwill left to pull something like this? What a weird company.
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Aug 18, 2020 16:15
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Decided to upgrade my 3900x / Aorus Pro Wifi bios. Upgrade completed, screen went black and that's all she wrote. An hour later, bios flashback with a USB stick to the previous BIOS from earlier this year finally worked. Not impressed.
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Aug 18, 2020 17:28
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It sucks and very annoying it failed the first time, but the fact you were able to recover from something like that which would've been a completely unrecoverable failure just a couple of years ago, in one hour, is pretty good though??
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Aug 18, 2020 17:37
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redeyes posted:Decided to upgrade my 3900x / Aorus Pro Wifi bios. Upgrade completed, screen went black and that's all she wrote. uhhhhahhhhohahhh posted:It sucks and very annoying it failed the first time, but the fact you were able to recover from something like that which would've been a completely unrecoverable failure just a couple of years ago, in one hour, is pretty good though??
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Aug 18, 2020 17:38
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It's on every mobo manufacturers download page: don't gently caress with your bios if things are working.
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Aug 18, 2020 18:13
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EmpyreanFlux posted:"Offering the Zen3 BIOS for X470 and B450 sounds like work and I won't do it, even though my competitors are definitely going to do so. This is an extremely intelligent decision and I won't regret it" This was discussed to death for multiple pages when it was relevant, both before the 180 and after. It's going to be the same 370/350 situation, and it's not because AMD hates work. The reason it will require beta / special BIOSes is a good one and due to technical limitations of their BIOS spec. (Zen 1/+ only support 16MB bios sizes, so even if the board has a 32mb chip you can't support everything.) Since using a Zen 3 bios will remove support for Zen 1/+, it will be a manual process to get those bioses. That's fine, it's not hard. If you're technically skilled enough to swap a CPU you have the ability to get the bios that says "Vermeer Ryzen 4000 support" and load it from a USB stick. It was a stupid decision and they did regret it, as seen by the reversal. (Also since when have their competitors supported more than 2 generations on a mobo. You were *lucky* to get two!)
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Aug 18, 2020 18:16
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sean10mm posted:at least with Zen 2 overclocking is kind of a waste anyway. It's not just "overclocking" anymore though. It's really "access to the controls that enable overclocking". Those same controls are also where underclocking, undervolting, PPT limits, PBO and CBS disabling, SMT disabling, and BIOS-level core on/off switches happen. Basically anything other than having a CPU run the way the box sticker says it will. The A-series is for people who want to plug in a low-end or midrange CPU and have it work, as advertised, for cheap. If you want to tweak pretty much anything, you want a B-series board.
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Aug 18, 2020 19:27
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Undervolting/PPT limits/etc are also of fairly limited value on Zen2. The chip is basically configured the right way out of the box and pretty much anything you do with it is going to push it into sub-optimal territory in one metric or another, usually for very little gain in the metrics you're trying to improve. It really is the first set-it-and-forget-it processor, even an expert isn't going to wring any significant amount of additional performance out of the core itself (memory is another story but that's not locked down). Wanting to disable SMT / disable cores / reduce PPT for HTPC situations /etc is true I guess but that's not something that 99.9% of people are going to do, and those people can just buy a B board. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Aug 18, 2020 |
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Aug 18, 2020 19:34
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EmpyreanFlux posted:IMHO, should be stacked X570, B570, B550 and A520. B570 should be what B550 is now, and B550 should be better VRM setups but use the A520 chipset w/overclocking. Overclocking the iGPU should really be handled by Adrenaline, if it isn't already, but since A520 does allow memory overclocking, you can get about 90% of your performance with DDR4 3600/3800 and just slapping a decent cooler on it because the Vega iGPU handles very much like the Zen2 cores (the more thermal headroom you give it the more it'll stay at max boost clock, which is 2.1 on the higher end 4750G). but asus is rock solid heart touching, this sounds pretty heartless. I remember really liking asus in 2004-2008 when I was first building, did they fall off a cliff? Or was I just an idiot?
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Aug 18, 2020 19:36
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Klyith posted:This was discussed to death for multiple pages when it was relevant, both before the 180 and after. It's going to be the same 370/350 situation, and it's not because AMD hates work. The reason it will require beta / special BIOSes is a good one and due to technical limitations of their BIOS spec. (Zen 1/+ only support 16MB bios sizes, so even if the board has a 32mb chip you can't support everything.) Since using a Zen 3 bios will remove support for Zen 1/+, it will be a manual process to get those bioses. That's fine, it's not hard. If you're technically skilled enough to swap a CPU you have the ability to get the bios that says "Vermeer Ryzen 4000 support" and load it from a USB stick. I was here for that discussion and I'm not talking about AMD., who have prepared an AGESA update for Zen3 and X470/B450. I'm talking about ASUS deciding not to provide such support when you know ASRock, Gigabyte and MSI will. gently caress I think even Biostar will do it, as slow as they are about updates. ASUS is just
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Aug 18, 2020 19:56
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EmpyreanFlux posted:I was here for that discussion and I'm not talking about AMD., who have prepared an AGESA update for Zen3 and X470/B450. I'm talking about ASUS deciding not to provide such support when you know ASRock, Gigabyte and MSI will. gently caress I think even Biostar will do it, as slow as they are about updates. Oh, ok. I'm not sure if that chart is definitive evidence that Asus won't also have the beta / special bioses available for their 400 boards. I'll wait until I see a sourced report about it, not a news story based on one random slide by a content mill operation. If they don't it'll be a major strike against them. When GN did the reporting about the Zen 3 on 400 controversy he said that some OEMs wanted the bios updates, some didn't, and some were meh don't care. IIRC Asus was the one that didn't want to do them. So maybe there some smoke there.
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Aug 18, 2020 20:39
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ufarn posted:The only reason I'll update my BIOS is to support Ryzen 4000, BIOS is such a minefield it's never worth the effort unless you're trying to find the one semi-stable version with only a few features disabled for Ryzen. OK so, lets not blame AMD or Gigabyte. gently caress Corsair. At some point one of my Corsair RGB Pro 32GB sticks died. Older bios was smart enough to ignore the bad stick. New bios was not.
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Aug 18, 2020 21:09
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EmpyreanFlux posted:IMHO, should be stacked X570, B570, B550 and A520. B570 should be what B550 is now, and B550 should be better VRM setups but use the A520 chipset w/overclocking. Overclocking the iGPU should really be handled by Adrenaline, if it isn't already, but since A520 does allow memory overclocking, you can get about 90% of your performance with DDR4 3600/3800 and just slapping a decent cooler on it because the Vega iGPU handles very much like the Zen2 cores (the more thermal headroom you give it the more it'll stay at max boost clock, which is 2.1 on the higher end 4750G). redeyes posted:Decided to upgrade my 3900x / Aorus Pro Wifi bios. Upgrade completed, screen went black and that's all she wrote.
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Aug 18, 2020 22:15
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Huh, I hadn't checked in a while and found that there is a new BIOS for my Gigabyte Aorus Elite X570. I'll have to check reports to see if it makes any sense to update - the last beta BIOS I tried for the board was hosed and I had to rollback to v11. The thing is running fine as it is so I don't have much of a compelling to reason to update unless it improves performance or something. I think with motherboards people tend to develop even more personal preferences than with GPUs - I know that's been the case for me. I've had multiple ASUS boards that caused me headaches and I shy away from them, while I've had several Gigabyte boards that have been great, even though I think conventional wisdom was generally that ASUS was good and Gigabyte was sketchy.
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Aug 18, 2020 23:35
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HBTmXWEHvY In which buildzoid gets excited about A520 boards.
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Aug 18, 2020 23:43
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CaptainSarcastic posted:Huh, I hadn't checked in a while and found that there is a new BIOS for my Gigabyte Aorus Elite X570. I'll have to check reports to see if it makes any sense to update - the last beta BIOS I tried for the board was hosed and I had to rollback to v11. The thing is running fine as it is so I don't have much of a compelling to reason to update unless it improves performance or something. Or they just finally were able to push something out after the pandemic started.
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Aug 18, 2020 23:54
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removed
Zeta Acosta fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Aug 19, 2020 |
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Aug 19, 2020 00:47
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Zeta Acosta posted:Hello You probably want to ask in the GPU thread about that. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3484126
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Aug 19, 2020 02:13
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thanks i didnt found that thread
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Aug 19, 2020 05:11
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mdxi posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HBTmXWEHvY he does say here that memory overclocking is supposed to still be possible on A520s, which seems like is really the big thing for AMD honestly I'm on a B350 right now and I've never felt the urge to run my CPU at anything more than stock (except for a very specific game experiment I was running with a strategy game that needed overclocking), so count me in on getting excited for these too
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Aug 19, 2020 15:46
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Ended up picking up a Asus ROG B550-F board and a AMD Ryzen 5 3400G for like $300 total to rebuild the kids PC. Its 3rd gen Zen ready too, so he's got some upgrade paths.
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Aug 19, 2020 16:05
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gradenko_2000 posted:he does say here that memory overclocking is supposed to still be possible on A520s, which seems like is really the big thing for AMD CPU overclocking is no big loss. Not like you can get more than a few 100MHz anyway. Memory OC? That's the good poo poo. Actually significant gains in perf due to mem bw and IF:Mem speed locking
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Aug 19, 2020 16:14
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Does no overclocking mean that IF is stuck running at base though? Base is only 1600 which means DDR3200 as a hard cap. Most chips have no problem getting that up to 1700 with many hitting 1800 and a few hitting 2000. Getting +100mhz of IF speed is noticeable. That said a few games (notably factorio) like tight timings better so running at 3200CL12-14 isn't going to kill the build.
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Aug 19, 2020 16:20
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pixaal posted:Does no overclocking mean that IF is stuck running at base though? Base is only 1600 which means DDR3200 as a hard cap. Most chips have no problem getting that up to 1700 with many hitting 1800 and a few hitting 2000. Getting +100mhz of IF speed is noticeable If you can OC memory the IF comes with it, right?
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Aug 19, 2020 16:22
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Malcolm XML posted:If you can OC memory the IF comes with it, right? Zen 2 can set the IF clock independently, but yeah the default behavior is that it locks to memory bus speed. I'd wager that's what A520 will do: have only the default behavior for the IF bus, but still increase speed with memory. Means that DDR4-4000 is counterproductive as that will set the IF to a lower ratio, but IDK why anyone would put super premium ram in a budget board like that. If that's how it works, the A520 + 3300X/3600 + 16gb DDR 3600 = a very nice budget system. With a bunch of them being ITX it's also a great way to make an SFF system on a modest budget.
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Aug 19, 2020 16:58
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mdxi posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HBTmXWEHvY They really missed out by not naming it the A420. 
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Aug 19, 2020 19:40
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Considering that x570 motherboards are the same price or only a few bucks more expensive than b550, I can’t find any reason one would get a 550 over a 570.
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Aug 19, 2020 19:43
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ratbert90 posted:Considering that x570 motherboards are the same price or only a few bucks more expensive than b550, I can’t find any reason one would get a 550 over a 570. That was true when B550 launched but cheaper boards are out now. The cheapest X570 I'd buy (gb gaming X) is $170. Meanwhile there are $130 B550s that I'd be totally fine with.
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Aug 19, 2020 19:49
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ratbert90 posted:Considering that x570 motherboards are the same price or only a few bucks more expensive than b550, I can’t find any reason one would get a 550 over a 570.
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Aug 19, 2020 19:52
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ratbert90 posted:Considering that x570 motherboards are the same price or only a few bucks more expensive than b550, I can’t find any reason one would get a 550 over a 570. Based on all my discussions with people, it's the chipset fan.
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Aug 19, 2020 20:02
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ratbert90 posted:Considering that x570 motherboards are the same price or only a few bucks more expensive than b550, I can’t find any reason one would get a 550 over a 570. 100% no reason to get x570 for itx anyway
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Aug 19, 2020 20:05
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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:100% no reason to get x570 for itx anyway  https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=X570D4I-2T#Specifications
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Aug 19, 2020 20:32
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Klyith posted:That was true when B550 launched but cheaper boards are out now. poo poo, the B550M Pro-VDH wifi is like $110 and seems to be on par performance-wise with the generic recommendation everyone used forever, the B450 Tomahawk MAX, while having more features and being slightly cheaper. The Bazooka is beefy as hell for $130 if you don't care about wifi. The $180ish B550 ATX boards are built exactly like X570 boards in the same price range and offer some features x570 boards in that price bracket mostly don't have like 2.5g lan and bios flashback. The TUF X570 is cheaper but is a funny combination of a) built like an absolute unit, b) kind of skimping everywhere else comapred to those B550 boards (lan, audio, no bios flashback) and c) is just ugly as balls if you care about that. Then again if you can find it in stock at MSRP, the MAG X570 Tomahawk Wifi is right there with every goddamn thing anybody could use on a motherboard for $220. Overall the B550 boards around $180 more "lateral move" vs X570 depending on your use IMO, instead of just being dumb as poo poo when nothing was in stock and everything was marked up 50%.
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Aug 19, 2020 20:38
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