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kemikalkadet posted:If you can get a good 2:1 extraction with the single walled then use that (e.g. 18 grams of coffee in, 36 grams of liquid out in ~25-30 seconds). You'll probably find that you're getting way too much liquid out too quickly and under-extracting, in which case use the pressurised one. Thanks for this. Regardless of what kit I've got, I think that what you outlined is outside my capabilities so I will stick with the pressurised one. With improvements in gear and ability, does a pressurised portafilter place a ceiling on quality?
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Aug 19, 2020 20:46
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Wafflecopper posted:I'm an experienced barista who recently started a job at a new place, in charge of their coffee section. Every place I've worked at in the past my shots will drop at around 8 seconds. Here they drop around 3.5-4 and I can't figure out why. My baseline dose/yield/extraction time are all really standard, the same as I've used elsewhere: around 20g in/30g out/30 seconds. The machine is a La Marzocco Linea with a Robur grinder, both of which I've used before and never had this issue. Two statements with questions after and then two questions with statements after: 1) Unless you're straight up not tamping, it's not the tamp - a change from barista to barista isn't going to cause that much deviation, absent confounding factors. Is the tamp properly sized for your baskets and a "normal" tamp (or an abnormal one you're familiar with)? One possible explanation for an early drop is channeling - do you have bottomless portafilters so that you could see that? 2) 23g for a "ristretto" also seems ridiculous. What baskets are you using and what is their label dose? If they're in fact 23/24g baskets and you're only putting in 20g, you could be getting a fast drop just because the puck is thinner, even if tamped properly. And the questions: 1) What's the final extraction profile of the shots? Are they coming out at 30-35g in a reasonable time frame and your only issue is a fast drop, or are there other issues with them? I.e. are we problem solving here or is this just curiousity? 2) Is the roast profile similar to what your old shop (s) served? Different profiles can extract differently. Also, is staff feedback that you make better coffee than her, or is there someone you trust that will taste test you and confirm you're pulling good shots? If you're making better coffee and customers are happy then you're doing your job, it's a customer service gig after all, not WBC training.
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Aug 19, 2020 23:53
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Snowmankilla posted:I come for advice. If you currently have no coffee making gear you'll need a couple things. The first thing you absolutely need is a grinder. Ignore anyone who says to get a hand grinder as your entry level thing. Just get an electric one. Specifically, get a baratza encore. Don't overthink this. It's the cheapest good option and there is no compromise position worth spending your money on. Go ahead and get it. Next you need a source of hot water. This can be your drip machine if you decide to get a drip machine. Drip machines are familiar to most americans, which I'm assuming you are based on mentions of tim hortons and starbucks. Drip machines are easy to use and good ones can make good coffee. If this is what you think you want, get a technivorm if you want to spend a lot of money or a pick from the wirecutter if you want to spend a bit less. If you don't think you want to get a drip machine, get a manual coffee maker. Go back to the OP and pick something you like from the pourover, french press, aeropress, or clever coffee dripper sections. They're all cheap and they all work fine. There is a good chance you will end up with more than one if you like coffee, which is fine, so don't stress too much about which one to get. Just pick one you like the look of and go for it. If you go this route, you'll need a kettle too. A stovetop kettle will work fine, as will an electric kettle. If you already have one of these, don't bother to get another right now. Use what you already have. A few more things you will need: filters for whatever maker you chose, and a (digital) scale and a timer. Any timer will work, including the one on your microwave. Any scale will be fine as long as it can read in 1-gram increments. Lastly, of course, you'll need beans. Try to find a roaster local to you and buy their beans within a week of their being roasted, and use them within two weeks of buying them. Then, find a recipe for your maker, which should give measurements of beans and water either in grams or as a ratio of weight which you can calculate yourself for the amount of coffee you want to drink. Follow the recipe exactly - this is what you got the scale and timer for. And that's all you need to make good coffee.
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Aug 20, 2020 00:37
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hypnophant posted:If you currently have no coffee making gear you'll need a couple things. The first thing you absolutely need is a grinder. Ignore anyone who says to get a hand grinder as your entry level thing. Just get an electric one. Specifically, get a baratza encore. Don't overthink this. It's the cheapest good option and there is no compromise position worth spending your money on. Go ahead and get it. Ahem. Start with good filtered water.
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Aug 20, 2020 01:03
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Mr. Mambold posted:Ahem. Start with good filtered water. totally depends. our water tastes great out of the Tao we don’t bother.
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Aug 20, 2020 01:42
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Mr. Mambold posted:Ahem. Start with good filtered water. Agreed, I live in a place with good tap water so I always forget but if your tap water tastes funky you should filter it
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Aug 20, 2020 03:05
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hypnophant posted:If you currently have no coffee making gear you'll need a couple things. The first thing you absolutely need is a grinder. Ignore anyone who says to get a hand grinder as your entry level thing. Just get an electric one. Specifically, get a baratza encore. Don't overthink this. It's the cheapest good option and there is no compromise position worth spending your money on. Go ahead and get it. You are correct on being American (sorry I did not mention it on my op). This is super comprehensive, thanks! After re-reading the first post and seeing all the advice, do most people never have a goon approved cup of coffee they made themselves? Specifically the measuring that I have never seen the coffee drinkers in my life mess with. I tend to see people do more scoops then anything else?
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Aug 20, 2020 04:51
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The standard ratio in American specialty coffee is 1:18. So if you use 20g of coffee that should yield around a 12oz cup. You can make it to your own taste but it's a good starting point. I use way more coffee.
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Aug 20, 2020 06:09
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Snowmankilla posted:You are correct on being American (sorry I did not mention it on my op). This is super comprehensive, thanks! If you want things to be consistent you should get a scale (preferably precise to 0.1 g) and mass out the coffee. The comments about focusing your budget on a quality grinder are accurate. I may have misread your post as you *wanting* to drop a few g on coffee equipment. If you are unsure about the hobby definitely don’t do that. The difference between a $300-500 espresso machine and a $1,500-$2,000 espresso machine is principally going to be convenience. I like pulling shots but to be honest drip coffee is also really good and way cheaper to make. If I could go back in time I would have focused on home roasting earlier before making espresso, it’s adds a lot to the coffee making knowing you roasted your own.
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Aug 20, 2020 06:53
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JohnCompany posted:Is the tamp properly sized for your baskets and a "normal" tamp (or an abnormal one you're familiar with)? One possible explanation for an early drop is channeling - do you have bottomless portafilters so that you could see that? Yeah the tamp looks and feels like the vast majority of tamps I've ever used and fits the baskets. We have spouts on all the filters in the machine here (it's the kind of place where you get a lot of people ordering big milky single shot lattes) but I did pull a couple of shots on a bottomless filter I found at the back of a drawer the other day. It splattered very briefly right at the drop but immediately settled into three even streams before merging into one, running much like I'd expect on a naked filter. Didn't see anything I recognised as a sign of channeling except maybe that initial splatter? To be honest I'm not sure what to make of that. My understanding is that channeling doesn't usually just stop? quote:23g for a "ristretto" also seems ridiculous. Yeah I thought so too. Even if you grind course enough to get a good extraction you're still using ~15% more coffee than you need to which seems incredibly wasteful if there's not a good reason for it. quote:What baskets are you using and what is their label dose? If they're in fact 23/24g baskets and you're only putting in 20g, you could be getting a fast drop just because the puck is thinner, even if tamped properly. I'm not sure of the exact basket specs but they look and feel like what I'd usually dose 20ish in. I'll have to have a closer look at them tomorrow. Now that you mention it, the coffee does sit just on the lower edge of the groove in the basket, so maybe they are a little bigger. Possibly the roaster has supplied us with bigger baskets and told the previous barista to dose up in order to get a higher volume of espresso into the giant cups a lot of our customers order. Not sure why they'd then tell her to pull ristrettos though. quote:What's the final extraction profile of the shots? Are they coming out at 30-35g in a reasonable time frame and your only issue is a fast drop, or are there other issues with them? I.e. are we problem solving here or is this just curiousity? I've been pulling them via volumetric control set to about 28.5g (where I find it tastes balanced to my palette and blends well with the milk) over 25-30 sec (aiming for ~28 but it's too busy to be exactly weighing every dose so there's a little variance.) I don't think it's a problem really, but I try to keep my barista ego under control and not assume I know everything. I feel confident I'm serving better coffee than you'd get in most other places, but that doesn't mean it's perfect, and I want to be serving the best coffee I can. But no, no other issues. It's mostly academic with a little "could this be better?". quote:Is the roast profile similar to what your old shop (s) served? Different profiles can extract differently. Yeah that's a good question. Most of the places I've been working at over the last few years were well into the specialty scene, (serving lots of single origins, soft brews, etc) which in my experience tends to favour a lighter roast than a lot of more traditional places. Where I work now is a less coffee-centric place (it's a bar and restaurant) and uses a major local roaster. I've never really drunk a lot of their coffee in the past and was worried it was going to be super dark, which I'm not a fan of, but have found it actually not too far from what I'm used to. I have to admit I don't have a lot of knowledge about roast profiles but to me it looks and tastes like what I'd call a medium espresso roast (maybe medium-dark?) and while the espresso doesn't taste what I'd describe as "bright", there's a pleasant juicy acidity to balance out the drier cocoa flavours that I associate with darker roasts. None of the burnt toast I get from really dark ones. quote:Also, is staff feedback that you make better coffee than her, or is there someone you trust that will taste test you and confirm you're pulling good shots? Well I haven't been going around asking everyone "whose coffee is better?" because that feels a bit catty and she still works there part-time so I'd like to maintain a good working relationship with her, but one staff member said she made them an "undrinkable" coffee and another couple have mentioned customer feedback about the coffee has improved a lot since I took over. I don't think anyone else there has really tasted espresso shots much before. Thinking about it now though, some of the bar staff have done a lot of wine tasting and should be able to adapt to tasting coffee if I can get them to try a few espressos instead of their normal big milky coffees. quote:If you're making better coffee and customers are happy then you're doing your job, it's a customer service gig after all, not WBC training. Yeah that's true. My new employers seem really happy with me so far (it helped when I told them I was gonna save them 15% on their coffee orders) and customer/staff feedback has been great. I'm not majorly stressing over it or anything, like I said it's mostly academic. Sextro posted:Who is the roaster? What bean/blend is it from them? I know you're just trying to help and appreciate it but I'd rather not post specifics. I don't want to get doxxed by some rando troll reading the thread. Wafflecopper fucked around with this message at 09:05 on Aug 20, 2020 |
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Aug 20, 2020 08:53
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Has anybody in the US ordered from square mile in the UK? I kind of want to do the second worlds largest coffee tasting thing because I’m a turbo nerd but concerned if it will get here in time.
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Aug 20, 2020 13:13
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Everyone here probably already has a great grinder, but I've been keeping an eye on the Baratza refurb shop and they just updated it indicating inventories should be refreshed 3pm PST on the "expected back" dates. Encores should be listed tomorrow (8/21). No idea if there's an actual rush to get them at restock time but figured I'd pass it along. Hoping I can get the M2 upgrade + a refurb Encore all in one order!
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Aug 20, 2020 13:23
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Sweet Maria's posted a really great article about coloring differences between processes and decaf versus regular. https://library.sweetmarias.com/need-a-visual-guide-to-determine-coffee-roast-color/ I didn't realize there was such a difference between coloring and wet versus dry in city roasts.
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Aug 20, 2020 13:40
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I'm going to be slightly contrarian here and say that I really can't afford a Baratza grinder, but even with a cheap hand grinder, I've still been able to consistently make better coffee than most people I know. Just a few inexpensive pieces of equipment can drastically improve your coffee compared to the pre-ground Folger's in a cheap drip machine that you'll find in a lot of places. (French press, scale, kettle with built-in thermometer, and hand grinder can all be had for around $30 or less each.) You can keep going from there if your budget allows it, but even the most basic improvements will make a noticeable difference. Just in case you were feeling intimidated.
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Aug 20, 2020 13:46
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I got a hario skerton 2 year ago because it was cheap and it has served me very well, starting to have some play but still works I don't think hand grinders should be dismissed out of hand
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Aug 20, 2020 14:02
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Tbqh one of the biggest reasons I went with an expensive hand grinder is that you need to spend big bucks to get a good electrical grinder that'll exactly prepare one dose for you Hand grinder put in 15 grams get out 15 grams, no screwing around with a big hopper or timing the grind
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Aug 20, 2020 14:10
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Wafflecopper posted:
If the roasting profile is what I think it is you'd probably do well with dosing a lot less, ground finer. Last time I pulled shots commercially with a "medium dark espresso blend pleasantly balancing fruit notes and chocolate notes that doesn't behave like high altitude single origin beans" I ended up around 18g in a standard bottomless 56mm portafilter and shots finishing right around 30-32 seconds outputting about 30-35g of espresso. Shots would start to drop at 4 seconds and ramp up to full volume shortly. I never bothered with preinfusion, there's room to be gained there extraction% wise but I never found it to actually taste any better. I kept a scale handy and would check my shots whenever I had the chance because our grinder really warmed up and needed grind size adjustment as business pace would change. Sextro fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Aug 20, 2020 |
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Aug 20, 2020 14:37
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Snowmankilla posted:After re-reading the first post and seeing all the advice, do most people never have a goon approved cup of coffee they made themselves? Specifically the measuring that I have never seen the coffee drinkers in my life mess with. I tend to see people do more scoops then anything else? I thought bean-weighing seemed overboard when I first read of it, but now I'll never go back to the scoop. After pulling out the scale we get good pots of coffee every time, at worst I might spend the first several brews on an unknown coffee nudging it up or down from 1:20 till I find the ratio I like for those beans. It's also been the first time I actually liked lighter roasts.
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Aug 20, 2020 16:10
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mediaphage posted:totally depends. our water tastes great out of the Tao we don’t bother. From the Eternal Tao come all things great and small. Always tasty coffee guaranteed. (Dalai Lama giggle) Lord Stimperor posted:Tbqh one of the biggest reasons I went with an expensive hand grinder is that you need to spend big bucks to get a good electrical grinder that'll exactly prepare one dose for you Have you ever used an electric grinder? I put in 15, I get 15, 150 I get 150; idk what you're on about the hopper or a timer.
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Aug 20, 2020 16:46
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milkman dad posted:If you want things to be consistent you should get a scale (preferably precise to 0.1 g) and mass out the coffee. Yeah, I don’t want to spend a few grand then not love it. But I think I am going to get a grinder, scale, and either a moka or aero press to start. Thanks for the advice!
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Aug 20, 2020 18:55
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Sextro posted:If the roasting profile is what I think it is you'd probably do well with dosing a lot less, ground finer. Yeah. So far the roast is the most likely option to my mind. I wouldn't, however, rule out a quirk with the machine - I have a Linea Mini and occasionally it drops real early (3-4s) for just a second or two, and then a gap where it's not flowing, and then normal flow starts 8-10 seconds in - and this is with light roast and single origin fun stuff. Is it behavior like that or once it starts flowing does flow just continue to increase from there?
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Aug 20, 2020 20:46
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JohnCompany posted:Yeah. So far the roast is the most likely option to my mind. I wouldn't, however, rule out a quirk with the machine - I have a Linea Mini and occasionally it drops real early (3-4s) for just a second or two, and then a gap where it's not flowing, and then normal flow starts 8-10 seconds in - and this is with light roast and single origin fun stuff. Is it behavior like that or once it starts flowing does flow just continue to increase from there? The flow would be similar to what you're describing from the linea. I've always assumed it was the roast because other beans would behave more as I expected whenever it was slow enough I could dial in something I brought in to play with.
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Aug 20, 2020 22:17
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Mr. Mambold posted:From the Eternal Tao come all things great and small. Always tasty coffee guaranteed. (Dalai Lama giggle) I saw some Baratza grinders with a timer on it. Never knew what it was for but I guess it's meant for busy cafes or something where you time the amount it takes to grind X beans instead of using a scale.
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Aug 20, 2020 23:10
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The timers are for people who don't single dose. They just store all their beans in the hopper and let it shoot out 10 seconds of beans each morning, whatever that ends up being. Having said that, my Baratza Virtuoso+ and my Eureka Mignon Specialita both have some degree of grind retention. I fix this by putting in 20.1 grams instead of just 20g of beans into the hopper. It's really not a big deal, and it's far better than using a hand grinder.
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Aug 20, 2020 23:26
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Hand grinder for espresso is for crazy people but I really enjoy manual grinders for pour over.
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Aug 20, 2020 23:45
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https://www.insider.com/jimmy-butler-coffee-nba-bubble-2020-8 Dude in the bubble is making pour over and french press for $20 a cup. Brilliant.
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Aug 20, 2020 23:47
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Munkaboo posted:https://www.insider.com/jimmy-butler-coffee-nba-bubble-2020-8
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Aug 20, 2020 23:56
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I picked up a rather rare Baratza Preciso (like new) a month or so ago. 1 usage by the seller when he bought it. Date on the papers was 2001. Guess it wasn't his thing, it hadn't been calibrated at all (grounds were like gravel), and Preciso is a pain in the rear end to do that to compared to the Encore & Virtuoso. I gave my totally functional Virtuoso to my son. If I get .1 gram more or less with a lovely scale, I lose no sleep.Munkaboo posted:https://www.insider.com/jimmy-butler-coffee-nba-bubble-2020-8 Lmao, Jimmy Hustle. Gonna have his own brand on his jersey soon enough.
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Aug 21, 2020 00:18
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Gunder posted:The timers are for people who don't single dose. They just store all their beans in the hopper and let it shoot out 10 seconds of beans each morning, whatever that ends up being. Having said that, my Baratza Virtuoso+ and my Eureka Mignon Specialita both have some degree of grind retention. I fix this by putting in 20.1 grams instead of just 20g of beans into the hopper. It's really not a big deal, and it's far better than using a hand grinder. I smack and brush all the grounds for a single dose out of my Capresso Infinity every time because I'm incredibly stingy with my beans at $14-$17 per 12 oz and also I'm stupid as hell
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Aug 21, 2020 01:23
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Snowmankilla posted:After re-reading the first post and seeing all the advice, do most people never have a goon approved cup of coffee they made themselves? Specifically the measuring that I have never seen the coffee drinkers in my life mess with. I tend to see people do more scoops then anything else? You said earlier you are a wet shaving person. Fancy coffee people are to normal people like wet shaving people are to normal people. If you have the same driving pressure (same machine) and same particle distribution (same grinder & coffee), the only thing left that can change the flow rate is amount of coffee or how it's distributed in the portafilter. If you have a higher flow rate with everything else the same, there has to be some lower-resistance path through the puck. Maybe the grinder is spitting clumps? Coffee's incompressible, so tamping hard won't affect voids by the edges if you squeeze out all the air in the middle first and the tamp is supported on that.
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Aug 21, 2020 02:29
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Foxfire_ posted:You said earlier you are a wet shaving person. Fancy coffee people are to normal people like wet shaving people are to normal people. In fairness, that is almost exactly why I want to get into it.
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Aug 21, 2020 03:59
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Mu Zeta posted:Hand grinder for espresso is for crazy people but I really enjoy manual grinders for pour over. Ask me about my Helor Flux! Yes, I am the crazy person!!!
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Aug 21, 2020 05:56
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Anybody try the Cafec roast specific filters? Sprometheus made a video review of them that almost looks too good to be true. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIKSvEtBfyw
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Aug 21, 2020 18:20
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i own every Bionicle posted:Anybody try the Cafec roast specific filters? Sprometheus made a video review of them that almost looks too good to be true. Looks great. Most places I buy from don't actually specify a roast level though, and I'm not sure I could tell the difference between a light and medium, most of the time. I suspect most of what I'm drinking is a light roast, but I'm not sure.
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Aug 21, 2020 23:09
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Gunder posted:Looks great. Most places I buy from don't actually specify a roast level though, and I'm not sure I could tell the difference between a light and medium, most of the time. I suspect most of what I'm drinking is a light roast, but I'm not sure. Same. I’ll just ask my toaster but will probably order medium and light and play with them. Edit: that autocorrect typo is too funny to correct
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Aug 22, 2020 01:03
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Ordered a bag of the light roast and medium roast filters. Will see what they're like. Up until now, I've been using the standard bleached Hario V60 filters, specifically the ones from the original factory in Japan.
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Aug 22, 2020 02:21
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I’ve had a refurbished Virtuoso grinder for 10 years now and I know it pretty well. Today I heard the motor kind of whine in a different way and slow for a second. It kept grinding and didn’t affect the grinds itself. I took the hopper and burr off off and didn’t see any plastic or other damage. Is the motor dying? Anything I need to check?
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Aug 22, 2020 03:01
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Check the tabs on the removable ring burr. Make sure they're not cracked or missing. They're designed to break off if something goes wrong, in order to stop more serious damage from occurring due to a stone or unroasted bean finding its way into the grinder.
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Aug 22, 2020 03:22
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sellouts posted:I’ve had a refurbished Virtuoso grinder for 10 years now and I know it pretty well. Did you take off the casing? You might be able to spot what's going on like gearing might be breaking down.
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Aug 22, 2020 03:23
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Gunder posted:Check the tabs on the removable ring burr. Make sure they're not cracked or missing. They're designed to break off if something goes wrong, in order to stop more serious damage from occurring due to a stone or unroasted bean finding its way into the grinder. Yeah, nothing missing there! Mr. Mambold posted:Did you take off the casing? You might be able to spot what's going on like gearing might be breaking down. This is next step, thanks!
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Aug 22, 2020 03:36
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