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Breetai posted:It also makes a lot of sens when viewed through the speculation raise through The Agent's last 'hello' that CIG is poo poo-scared to commit to a roadmap because it will have I go back and forth on the investors thing to be honest. Sometimes I envisage them as vengeful Shylocks lurking in the wings waiting to extract their pound of flesh if targets aren't met - and then sometimes I think of Calder Jr as a super rich fanboi who chucked a bit of chump change at the project on the off chance it might turn a profit and anyway who cares because "spaceships DAD!!!", and Calder Sr as the sort of rich banker who bankrolls his stay-at-home wife's artisan baking business while it makes horrendous losses in perpetuity because it's *pat on the head* "what she's always dreamed of". The ship sales are there to keep the lights on - these idiots will keep buying them.
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Aug 19, 2020 22:50
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consequences
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if there's one thing I've learned in business, the only way you can get away with taking rich people's money without real consequence is if it's tax payer funded or you're richer than the guy you took the money from
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Aug 19, 2020 23:21
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https://i.imgur.com/6GNxM6N.mp4
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Aug 19, 2020 23:29
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The Calders invested in I imagine their investment will pay off. 
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Aug 19, 2020 23:30
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TheAgent posted:if there's one thing I've learned in business, the only way you can get away with taking rich people's money without real consequence is if it's tax payer funded or you're richer than the guy you took the money from I doubt very much that Crobblers will be anywhere near the arse kicking chair when it all goes tits up. He reached for the Moon, and it's not his fault that a) his arms are too short; b) the Moon is much further away than he thought; and c) no one told him it was impossible to reach for the Moon, so it's someone else's fault. His intention was to reach for the Moon, goddammit.
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Aug 19, 2020 23:36
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*bengettingoffcouch.gif*
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Aug 19, 2020 23:37
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TheAgent posted:*bengettingoffcouch.gif* "It's... it's... so close... the Moon... if only I could..."
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Aug 19, 2020 23:40
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Tippis posted:Finally! The roadmap roadmap: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/17727-Star-Citizen-Squadron-42-Roadmap-Update — turns out it's not a roadmap, nor will the roadmap be one. Visited! Not sure I... understand how this is roadmap. I don't understand roadmap development.
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Aug 19, 2020 23:52
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The problem a lot of people make trying to run a scam is making it a small lie. And that's where they get caught or don't succeed. The real key to a good scam--like CIG is running--is The Big Lie, something so audacious that the marks could never let themselves believe that they fell for something so stupid. It would severely compromise their ego and self-esteem and that's something they can't deal with.
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Aug 19, 2020 23:56
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Snazzy Frocks posted:i think its funny that they can say something is x% complete, like they'd know how much correct coding will go into the thing. You are correct. And this leads to many altercations between developers and other people, especially marketing people who really want to have a roadmap to follow so there are teams hell bent on trying to ramrod out a chart that accurately depicts everything and when it will hit. In a two weeks there are immediately upset people because it wasn't met. And the cycle of infinite status update meetings and "why are you not on target I don't understand" fills everybody's days. Ultimately CIG needs to just explain the features the game will have, and work towards making those features. Everything else is scope creep and should be ignored. But the problem is CR himself can not contain scope creep and puts it in everywhere. So Jacket 1.0 was great yesterday but this week it sucks so now it's time to make Jacket 2.0, and he also wanted Underwear 1.0 also since Jacket 1.0 didn't do what he wanted. Jacket never gets finished, Underwear, Socks, and Shoes have all been introduced and the teams are struggling to meet those new arbitrary deadlines and everybody has long forgotten that they should have stopped at Jacket 1.0 and moved on to Walking 1.0. But this is all core level basic agile stuff. You outline what you want, break up the features, and build those. Of course you're flexible if they want change, but the understanding there is if you do change you're no longer going to meet and kind of expectations. You want to prevent change even in agile, you want to work toward clear, attainable goals. In Star Citizen, nobody ever said "gee I wish I could drink a bottle of loving water!" but here we are. That's 8-9 years of scope creep failure. Building all this nonsensical poo poo into a game at this point is hard. Building a roadmap that does not including cutting a good majority of this poo poo to reach an MVP means the roadmap they will be putting out will be like stretching into 2040. Giving a realistic roadmap is as bad as them making a game. Both will kill the dreams, since in one hand the dream was never had, in the other the dream really was impossible. Not to mention the dread of the roadmap doesn't feature CR Random Promise 1.0 as an item because some people will get pissy... though I doubt CIG cares about that as much anymore.
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Aug 20, 2020 00:10
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Jonny Shiloh posted:I doubt very much that Crobblers will be anywhere near the arse kicking chair when it all goes tits up. He reached for the Moon, and it's not his fault that a) his arms are too short; b) the Moon is much further away than he thought; and c) no one told him it was impossible to reach for the Moon, so it's someone else's fault. I'm still holding out for the "at least we tried" mixed with the "we were too advanced for technology itself!" spiel.
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Aug 20, 2020 00:12
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TheAgent posted:if there's one thing I've learned in business, the only way you can get away with taking rich people's money without real consequence is if it's tax payer funded or you're richer than the guy you took the money from The sickening and heartbreaking truth
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Aug 20, 2020 00:21
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Scruffpuff posted:Sometimes you can take a set of features and divide them into a set and work a percentage that way, like "it takes these 5 things to make the bartender work, 3 are working, so we're 60% complete" This is how it works in Normal Software Development land. You don't estimate by lines of code; you estimate by decomposition into subtasks and completion of those subtasks. It's still really difficult to estimate time though, without already being an expert in the (sub)system(s) being worked on.
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Aug 20, 2020 00:39
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well my wife just accidentally took a 25mg pot cookie and ate the whole thing and now she's gonna buy a loving idris
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Aug 20, 2020 00:43
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TheAgent posted:well my wife just accidentally took a 25mg pot cookie and ate the whole thing and now she's gonna buy a loving idris Tell her to buy an 890J so you can do some couple’s touring in the ‘verse. Maybe you guys can do a double date with Clifford and his colonelwest fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Aug 20, 2020 |
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Aug 20, 2020 00:47
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TheAgent posted:well my wife just accidentally took a 25mg pot cookie and ate the whole thing and now she's gonna buy a loving idris My extract budder says 20 doses to the gram. She only took half a dose! I'm sure she's fine.
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Aug 20, 2020 01:04
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mdxi posted:
Man, Virtual Youtubers are not putting as much effort as they used to.
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Aug 20, 2020 01:14
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, and not at all clunky or unnatural, with absolutely no bizarre unsmoothed transitions between mouth positions.
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A fat man who talks like Pingu lies. Nerds throw money at the fat man and he smiles. A game is not forthcoming.
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Aug 20, 2020 01:15
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The roadmap to a roadmap It could be a big improvement but Still leaves room for the working on it in secrete Why are they still doing R&D in year 9 Still leaves room for any feature developed is only tier 0, Still dances around that they will not show a complete plan. Only showing upto a year hints that SQ42 is more than a year off... and "'Note that some teams, which are downstream from core feature teams, don’t know what they will work on until the core feature or tech teams commit to their sprints.'' so some teams cant even plan what they need to do yet?? surely they know they have x y z to do but dont know which order or when the start so they put in a place holder for now ? I expect the CIG Roadmap to be the big mirrow for the smoke and light show that SC (as usual ) also i thought we were all staggered development was this years buzz word, seams like its agile only now.
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Aug 20, 2020 01:18
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DigitalPenny posted:also i thought we were all staggered development was this years buzz word, seams like its agile only now. It's painfully obvious that CIG don't know what agile is. They're still using Gantt charts, or as I like to call them, Crobblegraphs
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Aug 20, 2020 01:37
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Dr. Honked posted:It's painfully obvious that CIG don't know what agile is. They're still using Gantt charts, or as I like to call them, Crobblegraphs MS project can go gently caress right off
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Aug 20, 2020 01:42
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colonelwest posted:Tell her to buy an 890J so you can do some couple’s touring in the ‘verse. Maybe you guys can do a double date with Clifford and his wife's body.
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Aug 20, 2020 01:48
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Dr. Kyle Farnsworth posted:The problem a lot of people make trying to run a scam is making it a small lie. And that's where they get caught or don't succeed. The real key to a good scam--like CIG is running--is The Big Lie, something so audacious that the marks could never let themselves believe that they fell for something so stupid. It would severely compromise their ego and self-esteem and that's something they can't deal with. They have 600 employees! Offices in multiple countries! How could it be a scam?!
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Aug 20, 2020 01:55
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https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CoolBraveFlounder-mobile.mp4
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Aug 20, 2020 01:57
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TheAgent posted:well my wife just accidentally took a 25mg pot cookie and ate the whole thing and now she's gonna buy a loving idris Let her know she can soon relax on a hot tub and soak all her troubles away.
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Aug 20, 2020 01:58
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tuo posted:That's a lot of words. quote:Plus, there will be some teams that are in R&D or ideation for things that are just way too early to talk about, and we feel revealing that would just create unhelpful noise and speculation. But our intention is to show you what every team at CIG is working on if we can. Wait, that's still too much: quote:some teams that are in R&D or ideation for things that are just way too early to talk about I can do better: quote:ideation Early "ideation" in year 8 of development should give you all the relevant info you may need.
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Aug 20, 2020 01:59
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Dr. Honked posted:It's painfully obvious that CIG don't know what agile is. They're still using Gantt charts, or as I like to call them, Crobblegraphs I wrote something painful here but it was too painful so just assume that I spend a lot of time making sure people can make these nearly useless charts to show off to people.
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Aug 20, 2020 02:06
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trucutru posted:Early "ideation" in year 8 of development should give you all the relevant info you may need. You forget how important Ideas are in the CIG lifecycle. Above art and animation even. The lowly keyboard scrubbers just need to layer code on top of those ideas, and that's the easiest part of development.
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Aug 20, 2020 02:08
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quote:YES. I LOVE STAR CITIZEN. Oh poo poo, the CEO of Aegis Dynamics supports the new road map?! I'm back on board.
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Aug 20, 2020 02:11
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Sanya Juutilainen posted:Not because of players getting money, but because it's an exploit and because it breaks any semblance of game's diversity. The bug, as accepted on their forums, was literally "players are making too much money". There wasn't some weird design exploit or strange glitch. People were spending hundreds of hours long haul trucking and eventually could buy the ships they wanted. A human being reported that spending hundreds of hours playing the game and being actually rewarded for it was a bug and Frontier accepted it. Pyromancer posted:If you want Factorio in space, there's X3 and X4 from Egosoft for that Leading up to release I was so pumped for X4, since it apparently lets you automate the war machine and replace the early game mining/selling/building that eventually becomes tedious with commanding a big fleet to go wreck aliens. One of the things that always annoys me about rags-to-riches situations in games is you might become a leader of the galactic superpower but you still have to do all the little micromanagement yourself instead of delegating. Then the game was released, was pretty awful, war was broken and from talking to people on the thread this was all normal until a couple of years of patches had passed. Never looked back into it.
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Aug 20, 2020 02:14
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Tippis posted:Finally! The roadmap roadmap: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/17727-Star-Citizen-Squadron-42-Roadmap-Update — turns out it's not a roadmap, nor will the roadmap be one. Why are they talking about sprints like it’s something new and original? Follow up question: why aren’t they using a made up bullshit name for sprints to make it sound innovative? I’ll take my answers off the air.
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Aug 20, 2020 03:03
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Bumble He posted:WEEOO! Star Citizer: space comedy on the edge of total madness
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Aug 20, 2020 03:05
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Scruffpuff posted:Even if they completed 100% of each roadmap they'd be no closer to a game than they are now. Take this for instance, on recent roadmaps: "Body Dragging." Oh, body dragging you say? I remember playing Splinter Cell on the original Xbox back in the day, you had to hide the bodies otherwise the NPCs would notice- Thief: Deadly Shadows had the same thing, the guards would even notice bloodstains left behind if you didn't use a water arrow on them to wash them away. Now almost 20 years later the "doing-things-never-been-done-before" game can't even manage a game mechanic that was on the first Xbox back in 2002...  Sad!
Zazz Razzamatazz fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Aug 20, 2020 |
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Aug 20, 2020 03:23
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mdxi posted:The animation is just But I thought Sandi was out?
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Aug 20, 2020 04:30
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That roadmap update wasa lot of words to say basically nothing. "We are doing things never been done before" says the company that still can't get NPCs to not t-pose.
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Aug 20, 2020 04:55
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Zazz Razzamatazz posted:I remember playing Splinter Cell on the original Xbox back in the day, you had to hide the bodies otherwise the NPCs would notice- Thief: Deadly Shadows had the same thing, the guards would even notice bloodstains left behind if you didn't use a water arrow on them to wash them away. Body dragging and cleaning bloodstains was actually in the original Thief game as well, so that brings CIG's never been done before technology back to 1998. For all I know there are even earlier examples.
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Aug 20, 2020 05:01
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Scruffpuff posted:Body dragging and cleaning bloodstains was actually in the original Thief game as well, so that brings CIG's never been done before technology back to 1998. For all I know there are even earlier examples. Beyond Castle Wolfenstein (1984) posted:The bodies of dead guards can be dragged through the room to conceal them, block passages, or gain access to objects.
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Aug 20, 2020 05:08
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if backers are satisfied with that roadmap to the roadmap and the current state of the game, it really isn't a scam anymore - it's more of a consensual findom relationship
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Aug 20, 2020 05:13
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A fool and his not insignificant sum of money.... Should just concede and make a iphone app that organizes their ship pics and see if I can get in on the money fountain.
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Aug 20, 2020 05:31
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 i don't know how you are ever going to top this. now I'm starting to worry the Amphibians will rise up and overthrow humanity before start citizen gets into beta
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Aug 20, 2020 05:39
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