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Wheeee posted:trekkies all obsessed with this fantastic better world thinking they'd totally be picard or spock when in reality they'd be o'brien tbf, o'brien has a better existence than most of us
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Aug 19, 2020 17:47
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tbh most people wouldn't be Picard, Spock, or O'Brien, they'd be a random nobody on Earth living it up in post-scarcity Utopia. the secret underlying all of Star Trek is that only patriotic idiots would join Starfleet, which is why nothing works right and they're constantly one misplaced nut or bolt away from a warp core breach
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Aug 19, 2020 17:50
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Wheeee posted:trekkies all obsessed with this fantastic better world thinking they'd totally be picard or spock when in reality they'd be o'brien I’d be a Barclay. At best. I’m not fronting.
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Aug 19, 2020 17:51
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vyelkin posted:tbh most people wouldn't be Picard, Spock, or O'Brien, they'd be a random nobody on Earth living it up in post-scarcity Utopia. Every Star Trek bridge crew is full of the Federation's biggest weirdos, this is absolutely intentional
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Aug 19, 2020 17:53
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Serf posted:tbf, o'brien has a better existence than most of us these days so does Al Bundy
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Aug 19, 2020 18:08
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that man was a homeowner in chicago with a full time job and insurance supporting himself and three others who very pointedly never had to earn money for themselves married with children is high fantasy
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Aug 19, 2020 18:17
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Zvahl posted:that man was a homeowner in chicago with a full time job and insurance supporting himself and three others who very pointedly never had to earn money for themselves Speaking as someone from Chicago, a person who says they’re from Chicago could be anywhere in a 1700 mile radius of the city proper. There are people in Canada who think they’re from Chicago. I think it’s some kind of curse. If you were bad enough in a previous life god makes you think you’re from here.
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Aug 19, 2020 19:06
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vyelkin posted:Remember the episode where O'Brien gets locked in a psychic torture prison for 30 years and comes out a completely broken man only to learn he was really only imprisoned for like an hour and then he goes back to DS9 and has such severe PTSD that he literally tries to kill himself and the episode ends with them saying the trauma is so severe that he may never get back to normal, and then they never mention it again and by the next episode he's back to being a lovable curmudgeon. Or the episode where he sacrifices himself in a parallel reality and sends another version of himself back to live out his life on DS9
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Aug 19, 2020 19:26
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Voyager had about a dozen or so really good episodes and another season's worth that were just mostly okay, but the show ran for 7 years and when you think about it that is at best a lot of filler and without the excuse that the show started in the late 80s and it's creator had fried his brain through decades of substance abuse
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Aug 19, 2020 20:05
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coathat posted:Voyager had some good episodes but it was mostly boring and bad it's this. just thinking about Voyager, as a concept, bores me instantly. even the cast photo is boring.
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Aug 19, 2020 23:23
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the doctor was the only redeeming thing on voyager that scene in ds9 with the ferengi leaders getting all hype about there being a whole new galactic quadrant full of aliens who've never heard of the ferengi for them to scam has me wanting a star trek series about the ferengi, just follow some ship full of incompetent venture capitalist scam artists as they try gently caress over everyone they meet
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Aug 19, 2020 23:29
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'm not gonna link it because I'm not gonna subject anyone else to a 40 minute video essay, but there was a very convincing one about how Voyager was good, actually, and that most of the criticisms against it were piddly nerd poo poo like "they couldn't possibly have had that many photon torpedoes" and "they lost too many shuttles with no way to replace them!" in the case of voyager, also a lot of misogynistic memes that crumble to a few seconds of critical thinking like the meme that janeway is a psychopath, which is actually more about the prime directive and the role of starship captain being inherently psychopathic even in the hands of someone who is absolutely not herself a psychopath
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Aug 20, 2020 00:00
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i mean i'm not oging to hard sell anybody on voyager, i definitely had the same distaste for it the last few times and maybe it's just where i am in 2020 instead of 2016 or whenever i last watched it but i was really pleasantly surprised this time and felt it came out looking a lot better than I remembered
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Aug 20, 2020 00:12
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Real hosed up that while it was filmed in 35 mm, they mastered all of DS9 on video, so a remaster would cost a million billion dollars and that's assuming you can successfully hunt for all the the old footage in the Paramount Salt Mines.
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Aug 20, 2020 00:15
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better resolution does old star trek no favors and i wish i had a grainy rear end crt to watch it on instead tbh
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Aug 20, 2020 01:34
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Hodgepodge posted:in the case of voyager, also a lot of misogynistic memes that crumble to a few seconds of critical thinking kate mulgrew herself said she sometimes had to pretend the character was insane because the writing for her was so inconsistent. theres definitely misogyny, but it's both in the fan hostility and from the writers being both generally incompetent and usually having no idea how to write women with authority. i think her characterization sucks, but so does everyone on the show. an entire series around weekly filler characters
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Aug 20, 2020 01:35
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Zvahl posted:i mean i'm not oging to hard sell anybody on voyager, i definitely had the same distaste for it the last few times and maybe it's just where i am in 2020 instead of 2016 or whenever i last watched it but i was really pleasantly surprised this time and felt it came out looking a lot better than I remembered I haven’t watched Voyager since it’s first season was on tv, but I remember it feeling a lot more lightweight than ds9 or even tng, sorta like Lost In Space: Star Trek Edition. Which might be more fun to watch, given the current... discomforts.
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Aug 20, 2020 01:37
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I however still like maundering about space miseries because god wiped his nose with my brain.
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Aug 20, 2020 01:41
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Breakfast All Day posted:kate mulgrew herself said she sometimes had to pretend the character was insane because the writing for her was so inconsistent. theres definitely misogyny, but it's both in the fan hostility and from the writers being both generally incompetent and usually having no idea how to write women with authority. i think her characterization sucks, but so does everyone on the show. an entire series around weekly filler characters see, i remembered that as her calling janeway a psychopath, but when i looked it up all i could find was her saying that another character she played was a contrast to janeway because that character was a psychopath and janeway wasn't; what i got from a co-worker who was largely just uncritical of fandom memes, was that she was great as a psychopath i could definitely see 'insane due to inconsistent writing,' though. today, my motivation is that i am... devolving into a newt. huh.
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Aug 20, 2020 02:01
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Ive watched three episodes of Doom Patrol and it’s kinda disappointing. In season one Mr. Nobody directly addresses the fact that these traumatized characters are living in negative behavioral loops for his/our pleasure. The characters overcome him and the behaviors that were making them miserable, season ends. They’re characters in a prestige drama that have escaped the cycle of being a character in a prestige drama. Then season two starts and they reset to misery in order to create dramatic tension. It’s become the kind of show it was deconstructing.
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Aug 20, 2020 02:03
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janeway was a rookie captain who was in completely over her head in an unprecedentedly awful situation that ends up going way better than anyone had any right to expect i dont blame her for being a bit unhinged if anything all the other characters had their poo poo too much together given the premise and backstory
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Aug 20, 2020 04:14
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Maybe without all the stress and anxiety of capitalism, humans are just way better at managing that poo poo and coping with trauma. Doctors can basically heal any disease or injury that isn't deus ex machina (the phage, irumodic syndrome, etc) so that could play into it as well. Why go into shock or have a panic attack when you know that as long as the ship holds together you'll almost certainly be fine no matter what. I'm more mad about the infinite photon torpedos.
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Aug 20, 2020 07:03
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I lent one of my British friends my copy of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. I described it as "two guys travel to Las Vegas to find the American Dream, and they do all the drugs." She sounded intrigued. She stopped about halfway in because she dismissed it as "misogynistic garbage". To her, the whole book is Hunter Thompson going around saying "I'm a man and I can do whatever I want". Yeah, it's portrayal of women isn't great. There's the underage painter that stays with Dr. Gonzo and the waitress lady who has a PTSD episode at the sight of a knife.
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Aug 20, 2020 07:12
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Organic Lube User posted:Maybe without all the stress and anxiety of capitalism, humans are just way better at managing that poo poo and coping with trauma. Doctors can basically heal any disease or injury that isn't deus ex machina (the phage, irumodic syndrome, etc) so that could play into it as well. Why go into shock or have a panic attack when you know that as long as the ship holds together you'll almost certainly be fine no matter what. i mean, replicators largely mean that the crew drops off some photon torpedos into the waste management system once or twice a day, though?
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Aug 20, 2020 07:12
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Problem is they had a concept that lended itself to being tightly written and serialised but really just wanted to make TNG fanfiction.
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Aug 20, 2020 07:13
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the sheer extent to which the main influence tng has had on scifi has become to encourage people to write tng fanfiction has in my mind slowly worked to make tng bad over time even though the quality of tng itself hasnt actually changed due to this factor hunger games is really similar in this awkward way the original story is quite solid and a surprisingly good predictor of the current political landscape but drat near everything it influenced is utter trash written by idiots attempting to pander politics to children
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Aug 20, 2020 07:24
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i don't know if replicator torpedoes or canon or not, my headcanon is now that the majority of space battles in star trek involved both parties throwing multi-gigaton torpedoes at each other that are roughly 80% atoms that have been through their own crew's digestive systems multiple times the federation fights by flinging its poo poo at aliens; it has some full circle and become true monkies in space
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Aug 20, 2020 08:03
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I assumed it was the same reason they couldn't replicate extremely advanced technologies with the replicator. But they specifically mention the limitation at the start of the series and never then say "but we can just replicate more so it's not an issue." I think replicators are limited to inert biomass (food) and basic components or tools. If replicators could just make whatever, then Starfleet would just copy Data and the EMH endlessly and make that their entire military force and oh God I just wrote Picard.
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Aug 20, 2020 13:03
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theres like 100 star trek threads on the forums so i dont wanna derail, but i think there is a cspam thread to tug at in thisSome Guy TT posted:janeway was a rookie captain who was in completely over her head in an unprecedentedly awful situation that ends up going way better than anyone had any right to expect i dont blame her for being a bit unhinged if anything all the other characters had their poo poo too much together given the premise and backstory Ghost Leviathan posted:Problem is they had a concept that lended itself to being tightly written and serialised but really just wanted to make TNG fanfiction. i think this is the issue: the writers never committed to an ethical stance on voyager's dilemma, because the point of voyager's dilemma was not to have an overarching ethical context but to avoid one. janeway, or really the story's narrative perspective, is sometimes a starfleet-chauvanist fascist who would condemn whole worlds in order to keep her crew on their course home, and other times nuanced to the point of endangering the crew's existence over a minor but sticky ethical conundrum. this is of course an inherent tension in the show's premise that would be interesting to explore, but the show never takes a perspective on it, it just jumps characters between inconsistent stances that are useful for creating conflict in that week's plot. and the show never takes a perspective on it because the point of voyager was to get away from the built world from late tng and ethical deconstruction of it from ds9. this is both because this analysis somewhat deflated monster of the week plots, and because ds9 and what it was saying was not popular with a lot of the viewership. and this is why it's cspam: the politics of the different series, and the politics of their fanbases, interact in surprising ways. pre-discovery, voyager is the most neoliberal show: it has the most demographically diverse cast and other isolated socially progressive elements of the franchise, but since its point is to sidestep the questions of empire and normative identity ds9 is raising, it creates an artificial scenario so the powerful protagonists are the underdog and inherently free of most consequences of their actions (because the ship is always moving on). and of course, since it's neoliberal, it immediately accidentally steps into fascism because attempting to ignore the consequences of empire and interference via the perpetual isolation gambit creates the imperiled identity that fascism thrives in (not to mention the frontier). which may be related to why it's the most popular series with chuds in my experience. they really hated ds9 -- because sisko, because ethical quandaries that dont get technobabbled away at the end, because aliens who don't fall in step with the federation, because "soap opera" meaning the show listens and explores and responds to its characters' experience of the world. voyager had freedom from much of that as laid out above, so they could have more tng episodic sausage, but also has a bizarre conservative feeling to it compared to tng, especially early tng. despite the whole point of the premise being to allow exploration and weird plots again, the world does not feel as strange as early tng, and certainly not as sexual and sexually liberated. there is sexuality and male gaze, and tng's sexuality shared a lot of the problems of tos' 60's free-love-for-privileged-straight-white-dudes, but, well, this is probably an entirely separate discussion more relevant to this discussion is that enterprise is the chud show to voyager's neoliberal one, again both as an attempt to further get away from the ethical baggage of the built universe, as a return to an imagined better and frontier past, and very much a reaction to late 90s conservative swing leading up to bush, and of course space 9/11. the crew, the characters, the production, the plots are all far more conservative than voyager. yet it's not any fanbase's favorite, and that's because despite being the conservative perspective show, or rather in virtue of that, it gets into a conservative-perspective conflict and has to center its ethical dilemmas in that setting and examine them and have their consequences stick, however superficially, which conservatives don't want to do. hence voyager staying the chud favored show, because of the implicitness of its conservatism
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Aug 20, 2020 14:40
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https://twitter.com/LumpyTheCook/status/1296202211249324032?s=20
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Aug 20, 2020 15:41
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Breakfast All Day posted:theres like 100 star trek threads on the forums so i dont wanna derail, but i think there is a cspam thread to tug at in this If you made more Star Trek posts like this one I would happily read them
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Aug 20, 2020 19:32
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I also care about black lives and think the crimes against their communities are sickening. For example, how the black angel Uriel was murdered by two white angels in season four of Supernatural. I think about that a lot, and cry.
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Aug 21, 2020 16:00
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Host on Shudder is a top tier low budget haunted house ride film. A group of friends during covid quarantine hire a spiritualist to lead a Zoom ritual for goofs. Things go about as well as they are wont to do in a horror film. It has clever writing, breezy pace (right up until things go exactly how you expect them to), likable cast, just enough humor, and a blessedly short run time, clocking in at just under one hour. I was put off by the description at first, its premise reminding me of Unfriended, but it uses the setting of a group video chat much more smartly. There’s a devil already outside, keeping them in, forcing them to seek human interaction any way they can, making them vulnerable; the gimmick is integrated well and isn’t just a high concept hook, there because the writers heard about the kids and their video chats on the internet, so why not kill some that way. I had pure fun watching it. Definitely recommended.
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Aug 22, 2020 04:34
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someone said Worf is a killjoy and he is, but rewatching TNG and DS9 i never appreciated how much of a tradwife he wants to be. he's way more into his people's traditions than any klingon to the point where he wont have fun with anyone, he even plans his own wedding TNG is this incredible distillation of 90s liberalism: universal rights are universal, bitch; being different is cool unless it interferes with those rights we dictate to you; and having a mediocre career is a fate worse than death.
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Aug 22, 2020 05:33
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90's movie plots Aliens have traveled millions of miles with futuristic technology just to look up my butt and blow up my monuments, how will this affect my promotion/bonus?? Foreigners are scary and want to blow up me, the center of all things. How will this affect my promotion/bonus?? Women are unknowable. Young people are unknowable. Minorities are unknowable. I live in an unknowable universe of disaffection and ennui, centered on myself. How will this affect my promotion/bonus??
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Aug 22, 2020 07:45
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Dreylad posted:someone said Worf is a killjoy and he is, but rewatching TNG and DS9 i never appreciated how much of a tradwife he wants to be. he's way more into his people's traditions than any klingon to the point where he wont have fun with anyone, he even plans his own wedding Worf makes sense to me when I think about him as like a late-life religious convert, or something comparable to that. He was raised on Earth as a lonely Klingon and responded by really idealizing what he imagined Klingons to be like, all about honour and glory and combat. He tries his darnedest to live those ideals, even when it means being a killjoy. Then he grows up and joins Starfleet and interacts with actual Klingons and finds out that all that stuff is an act, they don't actually believe any of it, and Klingons are constantly backstabbing each other and also they suck at combat anyway. Worf ends up hugely overcompensating and becoming the most Klingon of Klingons specifically because he grew up idealizing something that doesn't actually exist, and when confronted with its nonexistence decides that all the other Klingons are wrong and he's right because the alternative would be to accept that the ideals he's built his life around are a lie. So he doubles down into being Mr. No Fun and makes every conversation about honour and glory and tradition, far past the point where even other Klingons are like "Worf tone it down it's a bit much" and he's like "no gently caress you, live up to your stated ideals the way I've done my whole life because otherwise what's the point." He's out of place in both shows because he cares way more about Klingon traditions than anyone, even the Klingons, because he built his life around the written-down versions of those traditions instead of the in-practice fudging of those traditions that happens everywhere else. Like a late-life convert to Catholicism who insists on no birth control and no abortions and going to Church every Sunday even when the Catholics around them are like "nah we don't care about any of that stuff, we pick and choose which traditions we uphold buffet-style."
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Aug 22, 2020 14:55
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I mostly remember Worf as being the guy who's right about the alien threat of the day and being shut down by Picard.
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Aug 22, 2020 16:37
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Worf is just meant to be a mirror to humanity's bloodthirsty past (initially). New alien shows up Worf: "we should kill it before it kills us" Picard: "no", then later they make him an actual character where it turns out he's just an outsider who doesn't really *get* klingon society and is trying too hard
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Aug 22, 2020 16:52
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My favourite subtext about Worf is that TNG always talked up how dangerous Klingons were and how they're such mighty warriors but then Worf lost almost every fight against each episode's threat so that they could prove the situation was serious. Over time you can read the subtext that Klingons building their culture around all being mighty warriors is just overcompensating for the fact that they actually suck at fighting and lose all the time.
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Aug 22, 2020 17:02
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It gets to the point where they have to use Data as the stand-in for "wow this alien is really strong" because worf gets his rear end kicked so much. I disagree about him being out of place in DS9: the show does a lot to make him seem like much more of a competent officer, because it allows his fuckups to actually drive the story of a few episodes rather than it being par for the course. Also Klingons gotta feel bad that they evolved to a have like 5 redundant organs so they'd be really hard to kill and Romulans can just blow them away with a disruptor anyway. Or that they still constantly lose in hand-to-hand against a bunch of normal humans throwing two-fisted haymakers. Dreylad has issued a correction as of 17:41 on Aug 22, 2020 |
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Aug 22, 2020 17:39
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