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CRUSTY MINGE posted:People need to know when they've been fooled. Not saying you should kick in her door and be all "you voted for a fascist, grandma" but politely informing her of all the horrible poo poo this administration has done would go a long way in preventing her from voting for the orange idiot again. Doesn't sound like she is cognitively all there, if someone tricked her into voting Trump by showing up before the family traditionally shows up to help her
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Aug 23, 2020 15:29
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If they're going to vote, they need to know what they're getting. My grandmother is crazy as a shithouse rat and most likely doesn't vote anymore because the uncle in charge of all her stuff is reasonable and the alzheimers unit she's in doesn't push the issue. Not saying olds shouldn't vote, but if they have a legal guardian, maybe requiring the presence of the guardian would help. Lots of issues with that too, though.
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Aug 23, 2020 15:49
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CRUSTY MINGE posted:If they're going to vote, they need to know what they're getting. I'm of the opinion that you should lose the vote when you lose your cognition, but then you get the tricky question of where to draw the line(needing a guardian is a good one tho) and how to test it and make it consistent (guardian isn't good for this, afaik they are relatively rare because courts are reluctant to order them for olds)
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Aug 23, 2020 15:55
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A little late, but Story of a Secret State is a good read for anybody interested in the occupation of Poland.
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Aug 23, 2020 16:07
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RFC2324 posted:I'm of the opinion that you should lose the vote when you lose your cognition, but then you get the tricky question of where to draw the line(needing a guardian is a good one tho) and how to test it and make it consistent (guardian isn't good for this, afaik they are relatively rare because courts are reluctant to order them for olds) Is there evidence of this being a real problem?
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Aug 23, 2020 16:09
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Stultus Maximus posted:Is there evidence of this being a real problem? *gestures vaguely all around*
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Aug 23, 2020 16:16
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RFC2324 posted:I'm of the opinion that you should lose the vote when you lose your cognition, but then you get the tricky question of where to draw the line Ah, that’s easy! *pulls out criminal records and calipers*
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Aug 23, 2020 16:18
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It's gonna be a real problem as more boomers lose their marbles and they're living with their kids who might be fash fans themselves, especially in the case of mail in voting. Especially as alzheimer units gradually fill to capacity, no one having insurance in place specifically for senior care (my grandmother saw the writing on the wall young and bought that back in the 90s, saved the family loving tons of money). If I see 70, I won't be able to trust anything I see or do or say, and I know it now. Got to keep up the smoking habit to ensure I miss out on the adult diaper and bingo hall years.
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Aug 23, 2020 16:23
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mlmp08 posted:Ah, that’s easy! *pulls out criminal records and calipers* Kinda my point. There are lots of things I think you should lose the vote for, at least temporarily. I just don't trust anyone to actually do it without abusing it one way or another. Every one seems to either be a bigot, or someone who believes that anyone who might be a bigot should be expelled from society without waiting for them to gently caress up, so yeah. No one to trust. poo poo, give it to me and I guarantee my posting enemies will lose the vote
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Aug 23, 2020 16:25
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RFC2324 posted:I'm of the opinion that you should lose the vote when you lose your cognition, but then you get the tricky question of where to draw the line(needing a guardian is a good one tho) and how to test it and make it consistent (guardian isn't good for this, afaik they are relatively rare because courts are reluctant to order them for olds) The problem isn't that the question is tricky, it's that any system will be used to exacerbate existing disenfranchisement. A poor old lady in a nursing home paid by Medicaid is going to lose her voting rights way before the rich one who is no more competent but has in home medical attention. The black elderly dude being tested for cognition in Alabama is not going to get the same treatment as the white guy who lives down the street.
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Aug 23, 2020 16:31
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RFC2324 posted:Kinda my point. There are lots of things I think you should lose the vote for, at least temporarily. No.
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Aug 23, 2020 16:32
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There's a whole world of 20-70 year olds voting for regressive policies that would probably be worth addressing before loving disenfranchising the elderly.
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Aug 23, 2020 16:36
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Fallom posted:There's a whole world of 20-70 year olds voting for regressive policies that would probably be worth addressing before loving disenfranchising the elderly. but have you considered if we disenfranchise ALLL of the elderly, florida will cease to matter in presidential elections?
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Aug 23, 2020 16:44
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RFC2324 posted:I'm of the opinion that you should lose the vote when you lose your cognition, but then you get the tricky question of where to draw the line(needing a guardian is a good one tho) and how to test it and make it consistent (guardian isn't good for this, afaik they are relatively rare because courts are reluctant to order them for olds) it wouldn't be that hard to impliment either, just a basic spelling test or something like that
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Aug 23, 2020 16:47
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I'm far more in favor of people giving up their right to vote once they start collecting social security than I am of felons not being allowed to vote.
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Aug 23, 2020 16:47
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PookBear posted:it wouldn't be that hard to impliment either, just a basic spelling test or something like that yeah, maybe throw in some simple civics questions, a small processing fee...
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Aug 23, 2020 16:56
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Doc Hawkins posted:yeah, maybe throw in some simple civics questions, a small processing fee... estimate jelly beans in a jar...
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Aug 23, 2020 16:57
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Franchise isn't something you should be able to lose, period.
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Aug 23, 2020 17:02
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RFC2324 posted:I'm of the opinion that you should lose the vote when you lose your cognition, but then you get the tricky question of where to draw the line(needing a guardian is a good one tho) and how to test it and make it consistent (guardian isn't good for this, afaik they are relatively rare because courts are reluctant to order them for olds) failing the clock test. But disenfranchisement is bad.
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Aug 23, 2020 17:04
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how about we just restrict voting to people who can read and write?
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Aug 23, 2020 17:04
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Tryzzub posted:how about we just restrict voting to people who can read and write? Yeah I've got some ideas for some real simple questions that would help this. Here's one: "For the third word in the first half of this sentence, write it cross-wise from bottom to top."
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Aug 23, 2020 17:10
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mlmp08 posted:Ah, that’s easy! *pulls out criminal records and calipers* Holy poo poo a phrenology joke
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Aug 23, 2020 17:14
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I thought the calipers were for measuring which crimes made you lose suffrage :facepalm:
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Aug 23, 2020 17:16
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Hot Karl Marx posted:https://twitter.com/mfa_russia/status/1297448796880871424?s=09 Its worse than that: Afterwords the Soviets were supplying Germany with oil and raw materials/metal up to the day of Operation Barbarossa, in fact there were still trains rolling in to deliver Soviet materials to Germany on the day it kicked off. The Soviet Union also provided a training base in the 30's for the Wehrmacht to covertly train/practice Panzer tactics with the new tanks at Kama.
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Aug 23, 2020 17:18
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I'm starting to be concerned only those of us making the Jim Crow jokes are getting them, so I'll just say it: cognitive or educational tests as a condition of voting was part of Jim Crow. If you're worried that some people are too stupid to vote, figure out how to educate them, and how to outnumber them.
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Aug 23, 2020 17:23
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IIRC, the Germans delayed the start of Barbarossa in one sector by 2 hours to allow the last train of German goods to head East.
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Aug 23, 2020 17:40
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Doc Hawkins posted:I'm starting to be concerned only those of us making the Jim Crow jokes are getting them, so I'll just say it: cognitive or educational tests as a condition of voting was part of Jim Crow. Thats actually why the second half of my post, which is getting removed from quotes, talks about how we can't actually trust anyone with it. I really need to remember that people only read and react to the first half of what I say, which is usually primer for the second half. E: and I'm too stoned to try and make it funny 😅 RFC2324 fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Aug 23, 2020 |
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Aug 23, 2020 17:43
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One thing I've always wondered about is why W's approval ratings cratered during the economic crash in 2008. Was it just because he wasn't running for reelection? Fox News was fully up and propagandizing, Limbaugh was everywhere, etc. https://twitter.com/NumbersMuncher/status/1297570316559044615?s=19 Because these are some serious loving death cult numbers. Even Donnie's I SAVED MILLIONS OF LIVES nonsense is even more transparent nonsense than usual.
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Aug 23, 2020 17:51
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Who the gently caress are these 10% of Democrats that think this poo poo is acceptable??
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Aug 23, 2020 17:54
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Wallstreet and techbros?
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Aug 23, 2020 17:56
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Yeah, the ones who are social Democrats but have hardcore Randian style economic policies.
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Aug 23, 2020 17:59
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A Bad Poster posted:Yeah, the ones who are social Democrats but have hardcore Randian style economic policies. Yeah I guess there is a subset who won't see this as a problem until it starts impacting the stock market
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Aug 23, 2020 18:01
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maffew buildings posted:Who the gently caress are these 10% of Democrats that think this poo poo is acceptable?? There’s always 5-10% of a population who won’t agree on something (see: approval ratings of Santa Claus, Jesus Christ, nature, and Mickey Mouse). 90% of Democrats is functionally 100%
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Aug 23, 2020 18:08
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Every argument for having a minimum voting age can be used for a maximum voting age too. And there are other arguments for a maximum voting age, like the fact that old people won't be alive to see the effect of their horrible policies.
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Aug 23, 2020 18:14
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I would wager that the vast majority of republicans think the 180k number is made up and or overcounted.
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Aug 23, 2020 18:18
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Fister Roboto posted:Every argument for having a minimum voting age can be used for a maximum voting age too. And there are other arguments for a maximum voting age, like the fact that old people won't be alive to see the effect of their horrible policies. So you think we should let children vote?
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Aug 23, 2020 18:19
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everyone is equally a baby when they're 5. not everyone is equally senile when they're 75.
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Aug 23, 2020 18:19
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facialimpediment posted:One thing I've always wondered about is why W's approval ratings cratered during the economic crash in 2008. Was it just because he wasn't running for reelection? Fox News was fully up and propagandizing, Limbaugh was everywhere, etc. Bush's approval was already down in the 30s since around the 2006 Iraq Surge, but it did bottom out in the 20s during the crash. One thing that seems to have gone down the memory hole nowadays is that TARP was conceived by Bush's Treasury Dept (Paulson and Bernanke), and Bush ended up having to partner with the House Democrats after it failed the first vote in order to overcome House Republican opposition. You had 1/3rd of the House GOP vote against it in the first vote and almost 1/2 in the second, despite the fact that the economy was imploding on an hour-by-hour basis. Even before Obama wins, the internal GOP reaction to 2008 is where you start getting the true split between the Big Business Republicans who could occasionally see the writing on the wall and the frothing base.
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Aug 23, 2020 18:27
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Grip it and rip it posted:So you think we should let children vote? Why not, we have political party made up of man-children why not a political party of literal children?
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Aug 23, 2020 18:29
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PookBear posted:i mean what type of land owner because that can mean anything from small plot to plantation worked by serfs From my understanding it was around 10 acres that he farmed himself along with occasional paid help from town. But I'm going off my interpretation of someone's memories from when they were 8 years old. Still fairly certain it wasn't like that one "the mean old soviets too my grandma's horses and castle" tweet.
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Aug 23, 2020 18:32
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