(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
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it's my understanding that the CCP's Uyghur camps are basically updated versions of Britain's 19th century Australian aboriginal reeducation camps, and that the plan is broadly to breed out the Uyghur over generations to produce a sort of racial homogeneity https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWjGteDg9VE more likely that than a Uyghur Holocaust, anyway e: then again, if they're sterilising Uyghur women, idk what to believe lmaoooo Venomous has issued a correction as of 12:00 on Aug 25, 2020 |
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Aug 25, 2020 11:49
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| # ? May 27, 2024 11:00 |
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Pepe the frog has flooded Chinese wechat today, which is 七夕节 , he's the sad single frog and all the singles are posting the meme. What does this mean!?!?
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Aug 25, 2020 12:15
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Venomous posted:it's my understanding that the CCP's Uyghur camps are basically updated versions of Britain's 19th century Australian aboriginal reeducation camps, and that the plan is broadly to breed out the Uyghur over generations to produce a sort of racial homogeneity The sterilisation is only happening after they've had two-three kids according to the AP article.
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Aug 25, 2020 12:33
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Kill All Cops posted:women in camps being sterilized, ie. injected or made to swallow poo poo to stop periods. This is a loving badass post.
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Aug 25, 2020 13:18
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Bro Dad posted:dude the last go around about this ended with "well, you can't prove those kids don't like being in the barbed-wire residential school" i'm surprised you thought different I hate to say this because it supports the most deluded posters in this thread who are otherwise wrong, but that picture of the barbed-wire residential school is not the slam-dunk you think it is. There are tons of schools in Wuhan and elsewhere (usually private academies or college prep schools of some sort) that look just like that. The experience of being a student at such a place generally sucks, but it's not because they're being ethnically cleansed. I never figured out why but China loves putting barbed wire, guard posts, and broken glass on top of brick walls all over the place where they're not really needed. The crime rate isn't bad enough to justify it. Any ideas? The best I can think is that it's in response to the random knife attacks that happen rarely in schools.
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Aug 25, 2020 13:26
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Love to take at face value the accounts of victims of what amounts to standard (as hosed as that is) prison system treatment in any nation and repackage it as some sort of unique han Chinese nefarious genocidal plot. Such accounts definitely aren't being used by the West to push a uniquely evil portrayal of China in order to justify intervention.
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Aug 25, 2020 13:28
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comedyblissoption posted:i mean, like, japan imperialistically did actually commit a bunch of human atrocities on the chinese people This is absolutely true. Still, the degree to which the Chinese government instills and uses revanchism to distract from its failures is just off the charts compared to anything America does in that domain. And I say that while laughing at the fact that China defenders in thread deploy whataboutism nearly 100% of the time. I hate doing it myself but it's true in this case.
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Aug 25, 2020 13:34
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thatfatkid posted:the West to push a uniquely evil portrayal of China in order to justify intervention. so its either, genocide isn't happening, thousands of disappeared Uighurs is a myth. Chinese in no way possess the ability to organ harvest Muslims en masse, or lock down that kind of information within the Great Firewall. Actually all the good Muslims are in re-education and bad Muslims in prisons. All legal in accordance with the law. Or lol genocide is happening everywhere look at Amerrikkka and Israel. Fascism everywhere! China did nothing uniquely evil. Yemen. weird how bad things cant happen at the same time and we can't just accept criticism or debate how bad poo poo is huh
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Aug 25, 2020 13:41
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Way to project a whole lot of imagined stuff onto my post. Maybe just maybe the west's portrayal of what amounts to a prison system in a part China is heavily tinged with a uniquely orientalist authoritarian angle. Despite the fact that literally every country in the world has a prison system in which similar claims of abuse can and are made every day. Yet for some reason Western interventionist libs only seem to care about such in Xinjiang. Surely that's just a coincidence but 🤔
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Aug 25, 2020 13:51
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Im sure the CIA will find the mass genocide graves at around the same time it finds the mass china virus graves
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Aug 25, 2020 13:53
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Mmmm...more whataboutism. Great content.
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Aug 25, 2020 14:05
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The USA is the Great Satan and can go gently caress itself, especially with regards to the modern day chattel slavery that is the prison system. Are there actually any libs advocating anything more than going tut-tut? I think someone else mentioned the Democrats barely mentioned China at all, seems like they're more focused on the domestic trash fire.
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Aug 25, 2020 14:19
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thatfatkid posted:Way to project a whole lot of imagined stuff onto my post. Keep in mind, the reason we know about abuses that take place in western prisons is because the inmates are free to talk to journalists and lawyers, a thing which the CCP desperately fights against for what are surely good reasons. It's pretty bad that Guantanamo Bay detainees are given more rights. Most western prisons also have job training and classrooms, but no one is trying to pretend they're actually vocational schools
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Aug 25, 2020 14:37
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This whole New Frontier problem exists in the first place because China is imperialist and conquered Xinjiang after Mao took over.
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Aug 25, 2020 15:15
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thatfatkid posted:Way to project a whole lot of imagined stuff onto my post. Some people are just really hoping that there actually are death and rape camps full of Muslim minorities
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Aug 25, 2020 15:35
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huhwhat posted:my bad, thought it was u cuz u took the effort to quote a super old post of mine and not long after i was probed for an even older post Am I reading this right? this guy is a big fan of George Washington, from Mongolia, writes fluent Chinese and intimately familiar with Fulan Dafa. That's a weird combination. I think I will subscribe to his newsletter and see what other interesting he is going to say.
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Aug 25, 2020 16:23
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Some Guy TT posted:oh yeah heres a fun fact i learned from right wing twitter apparently the democratic national convention never mentioned china once more realistically they're listening to apple/other companies dependent on selling to the chinese market to back off
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Aug 25, 2020 16:25
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Speaking of constructiveness, what's the practical purpose of all your takes about the Xinjiang events? What do you want people to do about it all? That pretty much determines whether an argument is worth having in the first place. The genocide denier list quip was fitting, because it feels like the main point is the drama. That's honestly what pulled me in, the simple excitement of dealing with a taboo subject. But morality becomes twisted if everyone is only concerned about the abstract: determining whether something is good or evil, just or unjust, beautiful or ugly etc. The people who everyone pretends to care about are made into an aesthetic for us to wear. Arguing about their fate becomes nothing more than a fashion statement. The aesthetic makes people feel like their input is serious business and a matter of life and death, while at best they can play into the pocket of someone who is actually organising for things to happen outside the internet. And those people don't give a poo poo about what you believe to be right and won't listen to a word from you, they will only turn your words against you to demand you to support their machinations without any say about what they actually do. You're nothing more than a pawn to them. Everything is illusory except power. How are the Uyghurs trying to build the power for national self-determination? How can you help with that? What kinds of efforts are worth supporting, and why? Let's not pretend that we can be anything more than pawns whose only meaningful input is which concrete organisations they submissively carry water for. That means arguments in favor of carrying water for no one can't be anything but arguments against doing anything about the real issue. The oh-so-obvious position that people reach for to signal their individual moral righteousness actually only reveals moral cowardice: fear of committing to any stance in practice, only wanting to wear them as fashion articles.
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Aug 25, 2020 17:39
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huhwhat posted:all this is making me think of pepe in hong kong and of people defending the usage of the imperial japanese flag due to its centuries old heritage. heritage not hate! The white and red flag was the flag from 1991 to 1995 and it was also the flag during the brief period of independence from Russia after WWI. Lukashenko changed the flag by decree and a questionable referendum when he came to power. It's been a symbol of opposition to him for that reason as well, because it's the flag from before he came to power and the one he did away with. While it's an old flag and based on old historical iconography, it's far from "this is the flag the fascists made to represent the blood and soil of our nation." Most the collaborationist country flags were super lazy too because the Nazis didn't care and they just used the old ones, occasionally with a new item. The Japanese were the same way, with stuff like the collaborationist government in China's flag.
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Aug 25, 2020 17:42
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Venomous posted:it's my understanding that the CCP's Uyghur camps are basically updated versions of Britain's 19th century Australian aboriginal reeducation camps, and that the plan is broadly to breed out the Uyghur over generations to produce a sort of racial homogeneity Doesn't seem like the actions of a regime bent on racial homogeneity to me.
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Aug 25, 2020 17:46
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huhwhat posted:my bad, thought it was u cuz u took the effort to quote a super old post of mine and not long after i was probed for an even older post lol is that goodsoldiersvejk that posts here in cspam sometimes? or an alter ego troll?
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Aug 25, 2020 17:57
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A good rule of thumb when evaluating the claims made by western media regarding a non-western country is that if they border on the hysterical (ex: "kim jong un has demanded the sausagification of all golden doodles") these claims are almost certainly not true! Functionally the western leftist that decides to take the state departments word on xinjiang is behaving as a useful idiot for american empire. If they lied about Iraq why would they tell the truth about China? I myself am agnostic as to what goes on in xinjiang as I regard it as an information black hole for english speakers.
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Aug 25, 2020 18:07
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Dreddout posted:A good rule of thumb when evaluating the claims made by western media regarding a non-western country is that if they border on the hysterical (ex: "kim jong un has demanded the sausagification of all golden doodles") these claims are almost certainly not true! Some Chinese people also speak English, despite the best efforts of many of the posters here.
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Aug 25, 2020 18:09
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Throatwarbler posted:Some Chinese people also speak English, despite the best efforts of many of the posters here. regale us with various translated cuck fantasies about Xinjiang from unhinged Falun Gong followers
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Aug 25, 2020 18:16
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Dreddout posted:Uyghurs were exempt from the one child policy and the PRC aggressively promotes affirmative action up to an including requiring xinjiangs governer to be a uyghur. The US government also doesn't impose a one-child restriction on african-americans, and promotes affirmative action, therefore how can they be systematically racist? Unless the solution is for Trump to handpick black people for congressional seats, whom aren't allowed to deviate from his administration in any way and must attend sessions wearing their best traditional african garb. Maybe we can learn from China
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Aug 25, 2020 18:18
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Kill All Cops posted:i never latched onto any opinion, i posted a bunch of articles lol So kindly gently caress off then.
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Aug 25, 2020 18:56
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NaanViolence posted:Mmmm...more whataboutism. Great content. 
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Aug 25, 2020 19:11
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je1 healthcare posted:The US government also doesn't impose a one-child restriction on african-americans, and promotes affirmative action, therefore how can they be systematically racist? That's still not at all the same thing as the slow genocide described in this post : Venomous posted:it's my understanding that the CCP's Uyghur camps are basically updated versions of Britain's 19th century Australian aboriginal reeducation camps, and that the plan is broadly to breed out the Uyghur over generations to produce a sort of racial homogeneity
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Aug 25, 2020 19:23
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je1 healthcare posted:The US government also doesn't impose a one-child restriction on african-americans, and promotes affirmative action, therefore how can they be systematically racist? the us government notably doesn't have explicit affirmative action quotas for political office and actually did sterilize and otherwise reproductively repress black people, though. even if we were to take adrien zenz at his word i'm not sure we'd come up with a uyghur situation in china that is worse than the verifiable history + current situation of black people in the states
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Aug 25, 2020 19:26
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Ferrinus posted:the us government notably doesn't have explicit affirmative action quotas for political office and actually did sterilize and otherwise reproductively repress black people, though. even if we were to take adrien zenz at his word i'm not sure we'd come up with a uyghur situation in china that is worse than the verifiable history + current situation of black people in the states That's a good point, we should withhold our pompous judgement unless they keep doing it for another 150 years
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Aug 25, 2020 19:47
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Venomous posted:the plan is broadly to breed out the Uyghur over generations to produce a sort of racial homogeneity I don't think this is anywhere in there, honestly. The worst outcome that people are afraid of is that Xinjiang will have mandarin as the predominant language used in public and Uighur culture will be put in tiny time capsule box, relegated to traditional dance and religious practices that aren't allowed to evolve, like other minority cultures in China. The excuse is that threats of terrorism are at least partially caused by Xinjiang's isolation and muslim population allowing for turkic-nationalist and arab-islamic cultural influence. Redirecting Xinjiang's cultural focus to be inline with the rest of mainland is with at least one consequence being an end to terrorist violence the goal of these programs. Not saying that's good or bad just that racial homogeneity isn't really a thing, I don't think Chinese see ethnic minorities quite like that. It's more like how white americans, especially northerners, will say "oh I'm german" "oh I'm french" even though their ancestors came over 150 years ago and they themselves have no contact with that culture anymore... It's not something that will occur to you that there needs to be racial homogeneity between the french descended and german descended americans. The heinous thing is involuntary interment camps that separate kids from parents. It's a bad policy that enacts more violence than it claims to be stopping. Venomous posted:e: then again, if they're sterilising Uyghur women, idk what to believe lmaoooo China sterilizes everyone after they have the amount of kids they are allowed, Uighur women are allowed one more kid than Han women, and everyone gets one extra kid if they're registered in a rural area. You can also get one more if you pay some fee like a few thousand USD. Reproductive 'sanctity' isn't really like the west, like abortions are not a hot topic, and the government has laws on how many kids you can have. The article that was shared a while ago in this thread, with its source as Adrian Zenz, said that despite these kinds of affirmative action there is a crackdown on Uighur women who have exceeded the number of kids they were allowed, even after they paid a fine, suddenly the government was using it as an excuse to put them into the internment camps. Even the school that was shown looked mostly typical, what sucks it had a sign that read 'please speak mandarin while on school grounds'. America's education is all conducted in English but even we don't tell latino kids not to speak spanish between classes. edit: well I'm sure schools have said not to speak another language it's not a current matter of official policy... more like our past with indian boarding schools Antonymous has issued a correction as of 20:04 on Aug 25, 2020 |
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Aug 25, 2020 20:00
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as US citizens it is our duty to direct our hatred at foreigners why arent you condemning CHINA????11! “He worships dogs and reptiles. He blackens his eyes with soot like a prostitute. He dances and plays the cymbals in vile Nilotic rites.”
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Aug 25, 2020 20:01
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Kill All Cops posted:i never latched onto any opinion, i posted a bunch of articles lol back to the gbs china thread and take all the succ with you you imperialist swine
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Aug 25, 2020 20:03
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Small Gay Planet posted:back to the gbs china thread and take all the succ with you you imperialist swine 
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Aug 25, 2020 20:16
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je1 healthcare posted:That's a good point, we should withhold our pompous judgement unless they keep doing it for another 150 years no i mean if we divide each instance of national repression by the number of years it's been going on to generate comparable averages
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Aug 25, 2020 20:18
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I recently read about the Chinese government's official paper concerning what's going on in Xinjiang. It's not great. http://cpiml.net/liberation/2020/08...HKlytiK8ShDI4f0 "The White Paper repeatedly states that the Xinjiang people’s weak command over the Mandarin Chinese language makes them less capable of telling right from wrong, illegal from legal. The vocabulary of the White Paper implies that the Uyghur people are uncivilised and childlike: and need to be civilised by being taught Mandarin Chinese and the rule of law." If you somewhat understandably don't trust Indian MLs to be objective regarding China then here's the direct link to the white paper: http://english.www.gov.cn/archive/white_paper/2019/03/18/content_281476567813306.htm Mao often wrote and spoke about opposing Han chauvinist bullshit so this is more evidence that China has significantly diverged from Maoism. NaanViolence has issued a correction as of 20:26 on Aug 25, 2020 |
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Aug 25, 2020 20:18
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Top City Homo posted:as US citizens it is our duty to direct our hatred at foreigners Look not all of us come from the USA, some of us are from the UK *checks history book* oh noooooo
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Aug 25, 2020 20:53
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NaanViolence posted:I recently read about the Chinese government's official paper concerning what's going on in Xinjiang. It's not great. China very broadly defined certain Muslim practices as Wahhabist extremism and has arbitrarily detained an unknown amount of Uyghurs in various re-education camps to coercively integrate that group into the broader society. It also engages those groups in unfree wage labor, allegedly for job training There is definitely a large repressive component to those policies but its not genocide and its not our responsibility to lobby our terrible governments to do anything about it our role is to keep our gov responsible for their crimes
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Aug 25, 2020 21:52
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBbv7Qylk7k
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Aug 25, 2020 21:52
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It is cultural genocide, but thank you for not responding with some tired version of "but AMERIKKKA tho!!!!1111" I agree that Xinjiang is too far gone at this point for America or anyone else to realistically do anything about it without causing more harm than good. This is not the case in other areas, however. The main one that comes to my mind is Taiwan. It's a version of China that is vastly superior in just about every meaningful way and it only exists because the authoritarian American empire has had its back. We have their back for generally lovely reasons, but that doesn't make the results not awesome. Lobbying the government and our fellow citizens to continue supporting Taiwan is a good thing that Americans should do. I think it's important to have an accurate understanding of each superpower's wrongs to avoid the black-and-white thinking so commonly encountered in this thread. It's important to understand what should be feared and what should not be feared. In this way we can avoid being misled by bullshit like "America should liberate Hong Kong" or "COVID was created by Wuhan scientists" while also understanding the things that we can and should support if we have the chance to do so.
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Aug 25, 2020 22:17
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