[canada] I don't need to take lessons on marginalized people. I'm ITALIAN!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [canada] I don't need to take lessons on marginalized people. I'm ITALIAN!

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Eox: Jun 20, 2010; by Fluffdaddy

https://twitter.com/pressprogress/status/1298414791392923650?s=20

https://twitter.com/_llebrun/status/1298429667049906176?s=20

# ? Aug 26, 2020 03:11

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# ? May 25, 2024 12:03

a primate: Jun 2, 2010

sober second thought

# ? Aug 26, 2020 12:45

Entropic: Feb 21, 2007; patriarchy sucks

Doesn�t she know senators are supposed to at least pretend a senate appointment isn�t just a sinecure?

# ? Aug 26, 2020 13:44

enki42: Jun 11, 2001; #ATMLIVESMATTER

Put this Nazi-lover on ignore immediately!

infernal machines posted:

"obsessed with the nazi grandpa thing"

oh, and i guess the "providing material support to neo nazis and fascists thing"

we're really far too unreasonable about these niggling little details

I'm super grateful that people provided more info, and that was really helpful, thank you everyone, but you honestly can't pretend 90%+ of the discussion in the past hasn't been nazi grandpa focused

# ? Aug 26, 2020 13:50

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

Because Nazi grandpa is already enough.

# ? Aug 26, 2020 14:09

enki42: Jun 11, 2001; #ATMLIVESMATTER

Put this Nazi-lover on ignore immediately!

again, "nazi grandpa" is the biggest shrug in the universe to me, i honestly couldn't give a gently caress. supporting regime change / ukranian nazis / pushing us further towards being a us client state is the good stuff. maybe that's me.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Aug 26, 2020 14:22

Starks: Sep 24, 2006

enki42 posted:

I'm super grateful that people provided more info, and that was really helpful, thank you everyone, but you honestly can't pretend 90%+ of the discussion in the past hasn't been nazi grandpa focused

I�m guessing you mean in general and not on this website, but the reason the Cons don�t go beyond the grandpa thing is that they also support arming Neo Nazis in Ukraine and have a very good relationship with the Ukrainian nationalists:

https://twitter.com/mossrobeson__/status/1298031882303569925?s=21

enki42 posted:

again, "nazi grandpa" is the biggest shrug in the universe to me, i honestly couldn't give a gently caress. supporting regime change / ukranian nazis / pushing us further towards being a us client state is the good stuff. maybe that's me.

sure but it answers the question of why Freeland is doing all of those things, at least partially.

# ? Aug 26, 2020 14:25

Professorjuggalo: Oct 22, 2019; by Cyrano4747

enki42 posted:

again, "nazi grandpa" is the biggest shrug in the universe to me, i honestly couldn't give a gently caress. supporting regime change / ukranian nazis / pushing us further towards being a us client state is the good stuff. maybe that's me.

beaten to it but it�s because they�re all related, her nazi grandpappy probably bounced her on the knee as a child explaining 1940s racial theory to her

# ? Aug 26, 2020 14:39

Professorjuggalo: Oct 22, 2019; by Cyrano4747

it would probably also explain why the Trudeau government feels worse to aboriginal peoples than Harper was somehow (but that could be Trudeau too lol)

# ? Aug 26, 2020 14:40

Rimusutera: Oct 17, 2014

Its also useful to give people a very clear reason to laugh at her when she tries to claim some family experience about how bad Russia/Communism was.

# ? Aug 26, 2020 14:41

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

I don't know that "I don't care that she venerated a nazi collaborator multiple times, publicly, I'm just shocked that she helps provide material aid and support to fascist regimes around the world" is going to look any better if you keep repeating it.

These points are connected, probably, you know? So we can point to her gushing over a nazi collaborator, in which she says how much she admires them, while downplaying the whole collaborating with nazis part, because that's something she's doing in the public eye. The ongoing support for fascist regimes as part of Canadian foreign policy is somewhat less immediately obvious, and explaining that the groups we're arming and training in Ukraine are actual neo-nazis takes a little more time and legwork, etc.

# ? Aug 26, 2020 14:41

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

Rimusutera posted:

Its also useful to give people a very clear reason to laugh at her when she tries to claim some family experience about how bad Russia/Communism was.

again, framing her grandfather's emigration to canada as "due to political persecution" is entirely accurate, it just underplays the particular reasons behind why someone might face political persecution in post-war europe

# ? Aug 26, 2020 14:43

flakeloaf: Feb 26, 2003; Still better than android clock

infernal machines posted:

I don't know that [i]"I don't care that she venerated a nazi collaborator multiple times, publicly

...on black ribbon day, when everyone else takes a moment to remind each other that nazis were poo poo. That's the moment she chose to pull a koolaid man into that conversation and inform everyone of a nazi who wasn't that bad once you got to know him. She chose that moment and that audience.

# ? Aug 26, 2020 14:45

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

seriously, way to read the room

# ? Aug 26, 2020 14:47

Starks: Sep 24, 2006

flakeloaf posted:

...on black ribbon day, when everyone else takes a moment to remind each other that nazis were poo poo. That's the moment she chose to pull a koolaid man into that conversation and inform everyone of a nazi who wasn't that bad once you got to know him. She chose that moment and that audience.

I�m not sure about the first part, black ribbon day has always been more about communism than fascism. it was only started in 1986 and there�s
a reason that the Stalinism/Communism part always comes first.

# ? Aug 26, 2020 14:54

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

Starks posted:

I�m not sure about the first part, black ribbon day has always been more about communism than fascism. it was only started in 1986 and there�s
a reason that the Stalinism/Communism part always comes first.

Black Ribbon Day literally came into being as a way for anti-Soviet diasporas to equate Stalinism and Nazism. That was the reason it was created, it was at least in part thought up in Alberta, and I'm not willing to spend my morning digging into this but based on what I know about anti-Soviet Canadian diasporas I would bet that some of the founders probably have, let's say, questionable histories when it comes to their relationships with Nazism in the 1940s

# ? Aug 26, 2020 15:07

flakeloaf: Feb 26, 2003; Still better than android clock

Starks posted:

I�m not sure about the first part, black ribbon day has always been more about communism than fascism. it was only started in 1986 and there�s
a reason that the Stalinism/Communism part always comes first.

The Canadian version started like this, nazis first in title but communism first in the text, sounding very much like the situation vyelkin describes

Bob Rae posted:

Mr. Speaker, there have been discussions among the parties and I think you will find unanimous consent for the following motion:

1) WHEREAS the Government of Canada has actively advocated for and continues to support the principles enshrined by The United Nations Universal Declaration on Human Rights and The United Nations General Assembly Resolution 260 (III) A of 9 December 1948;

2) WHEREAS the extreme forms of totalitarian rule practised by the Nazi and Communist dictatorships led to premeditated and vast crimes committed against millions of human beings and their basic inalienable rights on a scale unseen before in history;

3) WHEREAS hundreds of thousands of human beings, fleeing the Nazi and Soviet Communist crimes, sought and found refuge in Canada;

4) WHEREAS the millions of Canadians of Eastern and Central European descent whose families have been directly affected by Nazi and/or Communist crimes have made unique and significant, cultural, economic, social and other contributions to help build the Canada we know today;

5) WHEREAS 20 years after the fall of the totalitarian Communist regimes in Europe, knowledge among Canadians about the totalitarian regimes which terrorized their fellow citizens in Central and Eastern Europe for more than 40 years in the form of systematic and ruthless military, economic and political repression of the people by means of arbitrary executions, mass arrests, deportations, the suppression of free expression, private property and civil society and the destruction of cultural and moral identity and which deprived the vast majority of the peoples of Central and Eastern Europe of their basic human rights and dignity, separating them from the democratic world by means of the Iron Curtain and the Berlin Wall, is still alarmingly superficial and inadequate;

6) WHEREAS Canadians were instrumental during the 1980s in raising global awareness of crimes committed by European totalitarian Nazi and Communist regimes by founding an annual �Black Ribbon Day� on August 23, to commemorate the legal partnership of these two regimes through the infamous Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and its secret protocols,;

BE IT RESOLVED THAT every victim of any totalitarian regime has the same human dignity and deserves justice, remembrance and recognition by the Parliament and the Government of Canada, in efforts to ensure that such crimes and events are never again repeated;

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED THAT the Parliament and the Government of Canada unequivocally condemn the crimes against humanity committed by totalitarian Nazi and Communist regimes and offer the victims of these crimes and their family members sympathy, understanding and recognition for their suffering;

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED THAT the Government of Canada establish an annual Canadian Day of Remembrance for the victims of Nazi and Soviet Communist regimes on August 23, called �Black Ribbon Day�, to coincide with the anniversary of the signing of the infamous pact between the Nazi and Soviet Communist regimes.

It certainly sounds like a lot of hard work is being done to equate naziism with communist regimes. Bird on me for not having read the drat thing before talking.

flakeloaf has issued a correction as of 15:15 on Aug 26, 2020

# ? Aug 26, 2020 15:13

Starks: Sep 24, 2006

vyelkin posted:

Black Ribbon Day literally exists as a way for anti-Soviet diasporas to equate Stalinism and Nazism. That was the reason it was created, it was at least in part thought up in Alberta, and I'm not willing to spend my morning digging into this but based on what I know about anti-Soviet Canadian diasporas I would bet that some of the founders probably have, let's say, questionable histories when it comes to their relationships with Nazism in the 1940s

yeah that�s what I was referring to, and you are correct:

https://twitter.com/danboeckner/status/1297761296256053248?s=21

I remember learning about it in school as a �Canadian heritage moment� because it was invented here and is widespread in Europe now.

# ? Aug 26, 2020 15:17

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

So, keeping in mind that Freeland knew exactly what her grandfather had done:

The Globe and Mail posted:

Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland knew for more than two decades that her maternal Ukrainian grandfather was the chief editor of a Nazi newspaper in occupied Poland that vilified Jews during the Second World War.

Ms. Freeland's family history has become a target for Russian forces seeking to discredit one of Canada's highly placed defenders of Ukraine.

Ms. Freeland, who has paid tribute to her maternal grandparents in articles and books, helped edit a scholarly article in the Journal of Ukrainian Studies in 1996 that revealed her grandfather, Michael Chomiak, was a Nazi propagandist for Krakivski Visti (Krakow News).

Please tell me how the following remarks are not an instant disqualification from holding any kind of office:

quote:

�I remember being surrounded by politics from the moment I was born,� she says.

Through her mother�s parents, Michael Chomiak and Alexandra Loban Chomiak, Freeland is rooted in the immigrant experience, the other major influence on her life.

The Chomiaks saw themselves as political refugees from Soviet-occupied Ukraine, and loved Canada.

�All my grandparents loved Canada but my Ukrainian grandfather was the most passionate,� says Freeland, who was born Christina Alexandra and adopted the name�s Ukrainian form. �I remember his kids once saying something mildly critical of Canada. He pounded his fist on the table and said he�d lived in six countries and Canada was the best in the world.�

Michael Chomiak was a lawyer and journalist before the Second World War, but �they knew the Soviets would invade western Ukraine (and) fled � and, like a lot of Ukrainians, ended up after the war in a displaced persons camp in Germany where my mother was born.�

Along the way Michael and Alexandra had six children, the last two born in Canada. They lived in poverty after they arrived; he couldn�t practise or go to law school and eventually worked for years as a lab assistant.

�(Their experience) had a very big effect on me,� Freeland says. �They had heated political discussions � They were also committed to the idea, like most in the (Ukrainian) diaspora, that Ukraine would one day be independent and that the community had a responsibility to the country they had been forced to flee � to keep that flame alive.�

quote:

Freeland was stunned by a speech by U.S. president George H.W. Bush in Kyiv in August 1991, urging independence-minded Ukrainians to work with the hated Soviet Union � which would implode four months later. �It was a moment of cognitive dissonance for me. My Ukrainian grandparents had a better understanding of what was going on.�

But hey, all she did was say that her Nazi collaborator grandfather - who ran a newspaper that recruited for the SS and boasted about the liquidation of the Jews - was one of her greatest political influences and that he was only doing what it took "to keep that flame alive". Because you know, if working with the Nazis and participating in the holocaust is what it takes to preserve your culture then you should not only do it, you should be praised for doing it and held up as a hero and a man who has a deep understanding of the world.

# ? Aug 26, 2020 15:20

jsoh: Mar 24, 2007; O Muhammad, I seek your intercession with my Lord for the return of my eyesight

its ok to be a nazi propagandist as long as you publish in ukrainian

# ? Aug 26, 2020 15:28

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

*constantly talks about what an important influence her grandfather, who was a nazi collaborator, was in her political development*

*provides material aid and support to fascists and neo nazis*

why do you guys keep talking about her nazi grandpa?

# ? Aug 26, 2020 15:28

Another Bill: Sep 27, 2018; Born on the bayou
died in a cave
bbq and posting
is all I crave

Nobody cares more about Freeland's nazi grandpa than the something awful forums

# ? Aug 26, 2020 15:34

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

Starks posted:

yeah that�s what I was referring to, and you are correct:

https://twitter.com/danboeckner/status/1297761296256053248?s=21

I remember learning about it in school as a �Canadian heritage moment� because it was invented here and is widespread in Europe now.

It's also worth noting that the earliest reference I can find to Black Ribbon Day doesn't mention Nazis at all:

https://twitter.com/DanBoeckner/status/1297766614184730624

It's purely framed as a right-wing protest against the Soviets and their dastardly Communist conspiracies to take over the world

e: rehosted image for those who don't want to click through

vyelkin has issued a correction as of 15:41 on Aug 26, 2020

# ? Aug 26, 2020 15:39

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

Another Bill posted:

Nobody cares more about Freeland's nazi grandpa than the something awful forums

that is almost certainly true

# ? Aug 26, 2020 15:42

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

Canada is a country that has monuments to SS divisions with placards explicitly identifying them as such and when somebody "defaced" one of those monuments the police initially said they would investigate it as a hate crime.

And yeah its true, the vast majority of Canadians do not give a gently caress about this, which does not reflect very well on our country.

# ? Aug 26, 2020 15:52

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

Helsing posted:

Canada is a country that has monuments to SS divisions with placards explicitly identifying them as such and when somebody "defaced" one of those monuments the police initially said they would investigate it as a hate crime.

And yeah its true, the vast majority of Canadians do not give a gently caress about this, which does not reflect very well on our country.

I said this more eloquently in the other thread back when this happened, but it's something I absolutely despise about my own country: the welcoming Nazis after WW2, the venerating Nazis during the Cold War, and the complete apathy towards it today, it makes my blood boil whenever I think about

# ? Aug 26, 2020 15:54

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

i'm absolutely not going to "hand it to them", but i also find it difficult to fault someone for not realizing the the war memorial spray painted "nazi war memorial" was in fact a nazi war memorial. if you're not familiar with the politics of the ukranian diaspora, it's entirely understandable that you might not think canada would have such a thing as a nazi war memorial

infernal machines has issued a correction as of 15:57 on Aug 26, 2020

# ? Aug 26, 2020 15:55

Another Bill: Sep 27, 2018; Born on the bayou
died in a cave
bbq and posting
is all I crave

vyelkin posted:

I said this more eloquently in the other thread back when this happened, but it's something I absolutely despise about my own country: the welcoming Nazis after WW2, the venerating Nazis during the Cold War, and the complete apathy towards it today, it makes my blood boil whenever I think about

If only Gord Downie was still with us, he and the band could have a national tv special about it

# ? Aug 26, 2020 15:56

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

vyelkin posted:

I said this more eloquently in the other thread back when this happened, but it's something I absolutely despise about my own country: the welcoming Nazis after WW2, the venerating Nazis during the Cold War, and the complete apathy towards it today, it makes my blood boil whenever I think about

sure we fought the nazis in ww2, but in true canadian fashion we also welcomed them with open arms and open hearts

# ? Aug 26, 2020 15:57

Another Bill: Sep 27, 2018; Born on the bayou
died in a cave
bbq and posting
is all I crave

What I mean is that we can't even come to terms with our 400+ years and counting of indigenous mistreatment and straight up murder through neglect, and you think we can come to terms with welcoming nazis? we welcome nazis because we are them

# ? Aug 26, 2020 15:57

Another Bill: Sep 27, 2018; Born on the bayou
died in a cave
bbq and posting
is all I crave

Having a fascist sympathizing technocrat holding power at the top levels of government is very on brand imo

# ? Aug 26, 2020 15:59

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

well sure, but also, think of the alternative

# ? Aug 26, 2020 16:00

flakeloaf: Feb 26, 2003; Still better than android clock

we said the conservatives' kind of racism wasn't allowed

this other kind is, apparently, a-okay

(it's loving not)

# ? Aug 26, 2020 16:03

CrcleSqreSanchz: Aug 21, 2002; I'm feeling something new...something...I'm happy??!!

Manitoba: well if the cases keep going higher past this point then it would signify community transmission and we would have to look at restricting things again.

"Number reached that point and goes over"

Manitoba: no, not like that. Everything stays open.

# ? Aug 26, 2020 22:17

apatheticman: May 13, 2003; Wedge Regret

CrcleSqreSanchz posted:

Manitoba: well if the cases keep going higher past this point then it would signify community transmission and we would have to look at restricting things again.

"Number reached that point and goes over"

Manitoba: no, not like that. Everything stays open.

Seeing the press say 'Whats the number to close down' ? and having every bureaucrat and politician be like 'uhhhhhhhhh' is a wonderful signifier that no one can think of a world without capitalism.

Feed people into the maw, Lil Johnny shoulda wore his mask harder, Grandpa Bob died because he wanted some fish sticks from the superstore, its all personal responsibility, never the governments.

# ? Aug 27, 2020 00:34

Fried Watermelon: Dec 29, 2008

Don't worry we can just shut down parts of the province that have the virus

Don't think about the fact people live and work in different areas in the province

# ? Aug 27, 2020 15:35

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

how hard could it be? there's like, what, 20 people in manitoba?

# ? Aug 27, 2020 15:54

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Maybe Manitoba will luck out and covid kills mosquitoes!

# ? Aug 27, 2020 16:02

CrcleSqreSanchz: Aug 21, 2002; I'm feeling something new...something...I'm happy??!!

apatheticman posted:

Seeing the press say 'Whats the number to close down' ? and having every bureaucrat and politician be like 'uhhhhhhhhh' is a wonderful signifier that no one can think of a world without capitalism.

Feed people into the maw, Lil Johnny shoulda wore his mask harder, Grandpa Bob died because he wanted some fish sticks from the superstore, its all personal responsibility, never the governments.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/brandon-mask-use-education-1.5701287

Lol lol lol Brandon is going on the honor system for people wearing masks. No way they'd come to Winnipeg to do their shopping and living!

# ? Aug 27, 2020 16:14

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# ? May 25, 2024 12:03

CrcleSqreSanchz: Aug 21, 2002; I'm feeling something new...something...I'm happy??!!

Also Dave wheeler is back on the radio and I'm like is there loving NO ON ELSE in Winnipeg that can talk on the radio that his racist homophobic transphobic rear end has to come back?

# ? Aug 27, 2020 16:15

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [canada] I don't need to take lessons on marginalized people. I'm ITALIAN!

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