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Just watched the first three episodes of LDS and Mariner is just grating on my nerves. She's the Poochy of Star Trek and the fact that she's continually shown to be right/the coolest at every turn kind of bums me out. Show's pretty good otherwise.
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Aug 23, 2020 23:17
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MachuPikacchu posted:Just watched the first three episodes of LDS and Mariner is just grating on my nerves. She's the Poochy of Star Trek and the fact that she's continually shown to be right/the coolest at every turn kind of bums me out. She hasn’t, though. She was wrong at the beginning of episode 2, and it precipitated the whole plot, and she was wrong in episode 3, where she was so focused on being the hero and ended up being shown up by Ransom.
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Aug 23, 2020 23:26
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I hope Ransom isn't just named that because it sounds like Handsome, and he's related to the Captain of the Equinox that Janeway destroyed. twistedmentat fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Aug 24, 2020 |
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Aug 24, 2020 00:04
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Phylodox posted:She hasn’t, though. She was wrong at the beginning of episode 2, and it precipitated the whole plot, and she was wrong in episode 3, where she was so focused on being the hero and ended up being shown up by Ransom. Was she really wrong in episode 2 though? The story went out of its way to show that Boimler was overreacting to the entire situation and that Mariner is better at than he is. In the end the main conflict even resolved itself; the general made his way to the peace talks unaided, and no one was bothered by his intoxication. Boimler's only real win was very obviously manufactured by Mariner to placate him, which shows that he's still wrong about everything and Mariner rules. I don't know, so far the show seems to be setting up a dichotomy between these two characters, only to very clearly pick the side of the least interesting of the two. Even in episode 3, Mariner's thesis statement for the episode ("sometimes you have to break the rules to do the right thing") is validated by Ransom himself, who then proceeds to do exactly what Mariner would have done in the same situation. I might be reading into this and venting pointlessly, who knows! I think this show is pretty good!
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Aug 24, 2020 00:50
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[img-sarcastic-vulcan-salute.gif]
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Aug 24, 2020 00:55
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Mariner was wrong in episode 2. The difference, and it’s the whole point of the episode, is that Mariner doesn’t just give up when she’s wrong, like Boimler. A lot of people seem to think Mariner doesn’t have flaws because she doesn’t dwell on her mistakes and have a typical “growing and learning” moment, but that’s been her character from the very beginning; try something, no matter what, to see what happens and learn from it. Her flaw is that she thinks she’s the only one capable of doing that.
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Aug 24, 2020 00:57
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Martytoof posted:Right, I’m not trying to imply that it shares all the writing and themes of Family Guy, just that it’s got the makings of a “dumb poo poo happens every week” show with little need to develop the characters beyond caricatures used to play out said dumb stuff. So far I think it's a bit more than this because it seems to have a sincere interest in the mechanics of the workplace, and the funny element is "what if these annoying elements of the modern-day workplace were still around in Star Trek, and caused enormous disasters?" The second episode was basically the story from George Saunder's Pastoralia, a rule-abiding employee is harangued by his boss to snitch on his laid back-coworker. A large part of the show really seems to focus on their wildly different perspectives on how to see and do your job, and that difference is really the main subject of their interactions. Boimler is caught between his need to do a good job and rise up the ranks and his need to cut loose and be a good pal and believes he's only gotten as far as he has by continually choosing the first. Maybe he's right, and Mariner only gets to do both because she's the boss's kid. If they keep that up, it'll be a reliable and refreshing source of humor and compelling stories, and add up to something neat and fun, I thiink. Even The Office wasn't really about workplace dynamics but about all the poo poo you do when you're not working. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Aug 24, 2020 |
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Aug 24, 2020 03:24
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Too true. I just don’t have a better comparison to a show right now. It’s more shallow than a lot of the popular sci-fi (at least right now) where we’d have typically had some better character development by now, but it’s not bad by any stretch of the imagination unless the humour just doesn’t sit with you in which case it’s a write off. That’s how I always saw Family Guy. It’s just a show where dumb things happen and you laugh at fart jokes. This is a show where dumb things happen and I laugh at Star Trek references. It won’t win any creative writing awards but in a dreary 2020 where horrible things have happened literally almost everyday I’m pretty happy to have something mindless that reminds me of TNG and makes me laugh a lot. Maybe it’s just a show for the times.
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Aug 24, 2020 04:17
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Martytoof posted:Maybe it’s just a show for the times. How very un-Trek-like 
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Aug 24, 2020 04:45
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HD DAD posted:However, there is most definitely a sizable portion of the fan base that for which Trek is sacred and solemn and must be taken as very serious media, because otherwise they have trouble defending being obsessed with a fairly silly sci-fi franchise, and are secretly embarrassed about it.
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Aug 24, 2020 08:18
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CharlestheHammer posted:People seem to want character development and character fleshing out but that’s just not what comedies do. CharlestheHammer posted:I get it just fine, if you don’t find it funny that’s whatever comedy is subjective but people seem to think it’s going to be Star Trek with jokes. Which...it isn’t. CharlestheHammer posted:Yeah those are all examples of shows with faux character development which I hate. Alchenar posted:LD isn't as technically good as Rick and Morty or Bojack horseman. The writing isn't as tight, the characters aren't as fleshed out, the jokes just aren't as funny. And those were cartoon comedies that were extremely good from the starting gun.
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Aug 24, 2020 11:30
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Going back to the thing about Lower Decks' abbreviation, because "the Good Place didn't have character development, and if it did, I declare that it was fake!" is a silly take... ... I can't see "LDS" and not think "Latter Day Saints." It is seriously messing with me. But, "LOW" is worse, because critics will be all like "Star Trek: L-O-W? ONLY IF THEY'RE DESCRIBING THE SHOW'S HUMOR BROW LEVELS!!!!!!1"
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Aug 24, 2020 14:32
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tarlibone posted:... I can't see "LDS" and not think "Latter Day Saints." It is seriously messing with me. But, "LOW" is worse, because critics will be all like "Star Trek: L-O-W? ONLY IF THEY'RE DESCRIBING THE SHOW'S HUMOR BROW LEVELS!!!!!!1" agreed STLD should just be allowed to break the mold
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Aug 24, 2020 15:09
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then I petition officially making discovery's into STD, as it fits the show more accurately
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Aug 24, 2020 21:23
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Peachfart posted:then I petition officially making discovery's into STD, as it fits the show more accurately
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Aug 24, 2020 22:18
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It's pretty ok.
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Aug 25, 2020 04:17
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I vote we change the name from Lower Decks to Lowers Deck so the abbreviation can be LSD.
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Aug 25, 2020 05:07
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It's not amazingly funny but I feel like making fun of working time directives is a lot more star trek than whatever the hell discovery/picard are trying to discuss. I'm sorta sad this one is doing so badly compared to Disco/Picard (who people on the internet love but I've never met anyone who has actually watched them)
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Aug 25, 2020 08:01
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DaveKap posted:I back this definitely not stale, completely new take. Yeah, you are right, not my best work. Sorry.
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Aug 25, 2020 08:11
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Taear posted:I'm sorta sad this one [Lower Decks] is doing so badly compared to Disco/Picard (who people on the internet love but I've never met anyone who has actually watched them) Plus, as far as I know it's only been released in the US - and virtually nobody cares enough to pirate it. Would you?
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Aug 25, 2020 08:35
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Strong Convections posted:A cartoon is a hard sell to adult audiences at the best of times. Subjectively, the stills I've seen/people are posting are ugly as sin. Anecdotally, I've seen just as many torrent seeds for this as for discovery or Picard I don't understand the hyperbolic complaints about the look either, but you at least present them as subjective
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Aug 25, 2020 12:28
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Strong Convections posted:A cartoon is a hard sell to adult audiences at the best of times. Subjectively, the stills I've seen/people are posting are ugly as sin. Small difference but we have it here in Canada. Maybe it's non-NA that it's yet to see the light of day?
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Aug 25, 2020 12:51
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Strong Convections posted:A cartoon is a hard sell to adult audiences at the best of times. Subjectively, the stills I've seen/people are posting are ugly as sin. Well buddy I am not from the US so. Discovery and Picard are far easier to watch here as well compared to in the US and while I did see Disco season 2 advertised a bit it really didn't seem to take off.
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Aug 25, 2020 22:43
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Taear posted:I'm sorta sad this one is doing so badly compared to Disco/Picard (who people on the internet love but I've never met anyone who has actually watched them) Taear posted:Discovery and Picard are far easier to watch here as well compared to in the US and while I did see Disco season 2 advertised a bit it really didn't seem to take off. The Bloop posted:I don't understand the hyperbolic complaints about the look either, but you at least present them as subjective None of the characters are interestingly designed. No longer bound by having to fit an actor into costumes/prostheses they went with: boring looking human, another boring looking human, a boring looking pastel coloured human(oid), and a boring looking human with poo poo stuck on their face. And such interesting looking animation as: head and torso flatly facing the camera and moving arms and eyes about to convey that they're interacting with the person next to them. I mean, I'd possibly give at least the first episode a try if it was on Netflix. But given the reviews it's getting and that it already doesn't look like something I'd watch, I'm not going out of my way to get at it. I don't know if I represent a large percentage of possible audience, but just throwing out some ideas why it may not be a runaway success.
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Aug 26, 2020 08:01
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I'm also not from the US and only saw the first episode on Youtube when they forgot to region lock it but I don't really care enough to pirate it. I may eventually watch it if it came out to Netflix or some random channel like E4 like season 4 of Rick & Morty.
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Aug 26, 2020 10:42
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CBS All Access is doomed no matter what they do with Star Trek.
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Aug 26, 2020 12:25
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Honestly? Good. Reconsolidate all these bullshit streaming platforms into one reasonably-priced Netflix.
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Aug 26, 2020 12:51
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Will never happen until technology pushes it that way. Much like how everyone hated cable packages but nothing about them changed until it was so easy for people to pirate poo poo that there was no point in signing up for one anymore. Arglebargle III posted:CBS All Access is doomed no matter what they do with Star Trek. All Access isn’t a big success but I don’t see how it’s doomed either. Like Netflix or any of the rest of them, CBS can just lie about how well something is doing until the roof falls in.
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Aug 26, 2020 13:04
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The math of All-Access just doesn't add up to me. The Treks seem like their combined budgets would go well beyond possible subscriber revenue. Maybe they make it up with international rights and rentals, but even so it's really difficult to imagine much profitability.Phylodox posted:Honestly? Good. Reconsolidate all these bullshit streaming platforms into one reasonably-priced Netflix. I think the best thing to come out of the streaming wars is that everyone's spending a fuckton of money making their own weird niche content. When it all collapses we'll have a bunch of interesting high-budget stuff that never would've been greenlit in a traditional system consolidated on a couple of major competing platforms.
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Aug 26, 2020 13:45
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I mean it’s on TV as well (at least here in Canada) so All Access isn’t the only revenue stream that could be going to pay for the Treks. But I mean I definitely don’t disagree. The math of All Access doesn’t seem sound and I guess while they can run it as a loss leader for a while it’ll have to start making some profit at some point vs just selling rights to their library back to Netflix or something. CBS is a 21 billion dollar company so the runway may be long but it’s not infinite. some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Aug 26, 2020 |
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Aug 26, 2020 13:53
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Strong Convections posted:I'm confused - are you saying you're sad Lower Decks did badly compared to Disco/Picard which already did very poorly? Lower Decks has worse reviews than Disco/Picard but nobody talks about Disco/Picard in the UK at all. I thought that was clear from the context of the posts I was replying to, sorry. I work for a company that sells netflix and we advertise netflix stuff loads, but Disco is never included in that. Ever.
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Aug 26, 2020 16:40
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Taear posted:Lower Decks has worse reviews than Disco/Picard but nobody talks about Disco/Picard in the UK at all. I thought that was clear from the context of the posts I was replying to, sorry. How is it possible that lower decks has worse reviews than the live-action shows. That's incredible to me.
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Aug 26, 2020 17:48
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Tighclops posted:How is it possible that lower decks has worse reviews than the live-action shows. That's incredible to me. Lot of reviews gushed over seeing Patrick Steward (playing Jean Luc Picard playing Patrick Stewart) again I guess, regardless of how poo poo that series was. Lower Decks is objectively way better than Picard at least. And better than about 80% of Discovery.
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Aug 26, 2020 18:52
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Drone posted:Lower Decks is objectively way better than Picard at least. And better than about 80% of Discovery. I know this thread likes to be hyperbolic about how bad NuTrek is or isn’t but uh 
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Aug 26, 2020 18:58
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I put LDS and Disco about on the same level of enjoyment, for apples/oranges reasons. Picard is just...amateurish fanfic.
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Aug 26, 2020 19:00
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People rate Picard so low out of disappointment. No-one had high hopes for Lower Decks, so a lot of people are at "pleasantly surprised".
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Aug 26, 2020 19:19
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I liked Picard right up until they got to the robot planet, then it kinda fell apart a bit. I probably would have liked those last few episodes a bit more if I’d never played Mass Effect.
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Aug 26, 2020 19:33
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Arglebargle III posted:CBS All Access is doomed no matter what they do with Star Trek. It now has Champions League/Europa League, but even that probably isn't enough really.
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Aug 26, 2020 19:53
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:People rate Picard so low out of disappointment. No-one had high hopes for Lower Decks, so a lot of people are at "pleasantly surprised".
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Aug 26, 2020 19:57
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Not sure if it would be a significant factor in Picard's case, but most TV reviewers only get a handful of early episodes to review. By all accounts Picard is strongest at the beginning of the season, so its critical rating may reflect this.
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Aug 26, 2020 20:10
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