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icantfindaname posted:What's the best cheapish regular multimeter to buy? I am a fan of my extech. Extech MN36 Digital Mini MultiMeter https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0012VYKVQ/
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Aug 31, 2020 05:07
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icantfindaname posted:What's the best cheapish regular multimeter to buy? The Uni-T stuff is pretty decent for the price, with varying reviews depending on the model. Youtube has many well-informed reviews if you want to go down a rabbit hole. My recent go-to is the Uni-T UT210E, which measures DC current with the clamp in the mA range. Being able to do clamp DC current is surprisingly useful/accurate, as long as you understand proper zeroing and avoiding magnetic fields.
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Aug 31, 2020 16:48
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So I'm going to start running new circuits soon, but under the panel in the floor is a bit of a mess. The wall the panel is on runs on top of a floor joist, so all of the runs from the floor into the panel are run through half-inch holes cut at an angle against the joist and then up the wall into the panel. Anyone have any advice on how to more easily run wire from the panel, down the wall and under the floor into the crawl space? I'll have to cut some more holes but I'd really like to just like, cut an 8-10 inch gap for wire to feed through. I'll try to get some pictures.. skylined! fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Sep 1, 2020 |
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Sep 1, 2020 01:15
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Whatever holes you make, don’t forget to seal it with fire caulk.
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Sep 1, 2020 02:21
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I'm installing a receptacle in my garage but i'm unsure of how to make the transition into the ceiling. Questions: - What should box A be? A junction box? A conduit body? A rigid pull elbow? - Does there need to be anything for box B above the drywall on the receiving side? - Can I use an inside pull elbow for that 90 degree EMT bend to keep it closer to the wall?
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Sep 1, 2020 19:50
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I yanked off an old fluorescent light, attached a conduit junction box to the one that was already in the ceiling, and ran conduit from there. Why not just attach your conduit box to the junction box that already exists?
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Sep 1, 2020 20:18
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IOwnCalculus posted:I yanked off an old fluorescent light, attached a conduit junction box to the one that was already in the ceiling, and ran conduit from there. Why not just attach your conduit box to the junction box that already exists? It wouldn't really be ideal with where the junction is, but it's possible I could move the junction box into a better location to make that happen. More interested in the proper fittings needed to make that transition from both sides of the drywall though.
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Sep 1, 2020 20:47
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bEatmstrJ posted:I'm installing a receptacle in my garage but i'm unsure of how to make the transition into the ceiling. What's in the conduit? If it's NM, and you're just using it for 'protection', run the conduit a short amount into the ceiling and put a bushing or clamp (better) on the end, and continue the NM run with proper staples and bend radii.
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Sep 1, 2020 21:06
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B-Nasty posted:What's in the conduit? If it's NM, and you're just using it for 'protection', run the conduit a short amount into the ceiling and put a bushing or clamp (better) on the end, and continue the NM run with proper staples and bend radii. Ok, this helps. I guess my concern was putting a 90 degree bend in the EMT that goes into the ceiling would be a bit of a challenge. I'm guessing I have to use a 90 degree fitting with a little stub of EMT through the drywall, then terminate the EMT with an EMT to NM transition (or go straight into the other junction box if possible).
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Sep 1, 2020 21:22
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bEatmstrJ posted:Ok, this helps. I guess my concern was putting a 90 degree bend in the EMT that goes into the ceiling would be a bit of a challenge. I'm guessing I have to use a 90 degree fitting with a little stub of EMT through the drywall, then terminate the EMT with an EMT to NM transition (or go straight into the other junction box if possible). The easiest way is to mount a junction box on the end of the EMT, with an NM clamp coming out the back, so where you have box "a" but with no box "b" just make a sufficiently large hole for the clamp so you can tighten it in the attic. This approach leaves you with less conduit bending and fittings, and less 90s is better when fishing NM through conduit. You can also transition to THHN in this box if you want to feel fancy. An LB with an NM clamp will also work good, it would look worse and have less room imo. E: You can use a pull elbow for the 90⁰ in the EMT, as long as the cover is accessible, I would go with an LR or an LL, since the short elbows they make for EMT are going to SUCK to bend NM through. Elviscat fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Sep 2, 2020 |
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Sep 2, 2020 01:00
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Elviscat posted:The easiest way is to mount a junction box on the end of the EMT, with an NM clamp coming out the back, so where you have box "a" but with no box "b" just make a sufficiently large hole for the clamp so you can tighten it in the attic. This approach leaves you with less conduit bending and fittings, and less 90s is better when fishing NM through conduit. You can also transition to THHN in this box if you want to feel fancy. Decided to go with THHN for easier pulling (and availability). Got a couple of 90 fittings and gonna try to terminate in the same junction box in the attic that the NM is going to. Just need to make sure I've got a proper ground getting to the panel but I think I'm all set. Thanks for the help!
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Sep 2, 2020 01:15
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So, some pictures and questions- First, my detached carport - I want to put a subpanel in it and replace the NM running from the roofline of the house to the carport lights and outlets (yes). I know I will need to bury wire somewhere but want to do as little trenching as possible - the root system of the azaleas nearby is 100 years old and t h i c c, and we also want to eventually put a deck here. There's also a sprinkler system to avoid. The code guy said I could run wire along the post on the edge of the carport, into the rafters and then down to the panel. Could I also run THHN or UF in PVC conduit along the edge of the house? Or, go from the panel into the crawl space, then to the corner of the house, exit the crawl space, down into the earth a few feet then back up onto the pillar? If I can go into the crawl space I can avoid bending around the brick stack. My initial plan was to trench from the panel to the back of the carport like 50 feet away so this is helpful if I can do it. Also, any recommendations for clearing more space under the interior panel that I mentioned before, which is on a wall right above a joist? Previous work is just drilled at a 45* angle against both sides of the joist. I am going to have to work around a lot of this poo poo until circuits are done and signed off on to be energized by the code guy, so can't just pull (all) of it out of the way. Outside the panel, where I need to run wire out of to a 100a subpanel:    Standing under the carport here - the post is where the wire would come out of the ground:  And under the house, under the interior panel, where I need to be able to run new wire up into the wall:   Other side of the same joist/pier: 
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Sep 2, 2020 19:19
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Why don't you run the subpanel from that exterior breaker panel? I'd come out the bottom of that, run along the side of the house, down into the ground, then back up the post. I'd go THHN/THWN in PVC conduit for a good mix of damage protection and ease of use, make sure you have a pulling body (LB etc) for every 360⁰ of conduit bend. For your panel over the joist, I think you're SOL on anything besides drilling holes on an angle, you can drill big holes if you want.
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Sep 2, 2020 20:19
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Elviscat posted:Why don't you run the subpanel from that exterior breaker panel? Ya I guess I wasn't clear, I'll be running the subpanel from the exterior panel - these are two separate issues, one for wiring the carport, one for rewiring the rest of the house. Just wondering how much length of wire, if any, I can run inside the crawl space to the subpanel, or do I need to plan on trenching right under the panel and dig to where it will pick up in the carport. And yea, I figured on the joist under the interior panel. Just was wondering if anyone had any suggestions otherwise. The wall is an interior wall accessible on both sides, so I don't want to drill holes and come up on the quarter round or outside the wall on either side of the joist. skylined! fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Sep 2, 2020 |
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Sep 2, 2020 20:56
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skylined! posted:Ya I guess I wasn't clear, I'll be running the subpanel from the exterior panel - these are two separate issues, one for wiring the carport, one for rewiring the rest of the house. Just wondering how much length of wire, if any, I can run inside the crawl space to the subpanel, or do I need to plan on trenching right under the panel and dig to where it will pick up in the carport. You can run all the way out to that corner in the crawlspace if you want, if you do that probably the easiest way would be to use SE cable, then sleeve it in PVC from below grade on the corner of the house, then all the way up that post, then transition back to just SE cable when you hit the carport rafters. I'd run PVC on the exterior of the wall so I could go with THHN, but that would be uglier. Best way to find the edges of your wall is pull the quarter round up carefully, then take a long, very thin drillbit and drill some holes under where it was in the floor, this will mark both sides of the wall to make drilling easier.
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Sep 2, 2020 22:12
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I've done some refining of my idea for the generator & transfer switch/subpanel to keep my AC running during power outages: I bought the HF clamp multimeter to measure the inrush current and pulled 99.4A as the starting current for the AC (measuring the wire as it's coming out of the hose should be getting both the compressor and the condenser fan, yeah?). So that's right about 24kW. If the Microair can really cut that down by the user-reported 69%, then that should bring it down to a bit over 31A, which is just out of reach of what I was looking at previously. So, stepping up, the manual for the Generac 10kW LP/9kW NG automatic standby generator states a maximum load current of 41.7A, less 20% for NG, which gives 33A. Is this still too close for comfort? Stepping to the next size up is a doozy. As for when it's running, the compressor has an 18.5 RLA @ 240, the condenser fan has a .93 FL A @ 240, and the blower has an 8.4 FL A @ 120, so that should be 5671 Watts, comfortably within 9kW. Is this thought out enough to bother an electrician?
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Sep 3, 2020 03:34
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That's fine, that microair controller is really cool, I didn't know you could get a (presumably IGBT based? ) soft starter in that small and affordable a package. Your load calculations look fine, your genset should have some margin for inrush current too.
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Sep 3, 2020 03:57
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You could also try a hard start kit as a much cheaper alternative. I'd be interested to see how much it lowers start-up load. Based on the comments, a lot of people had success with similar issues to yours.
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Sep 3, 2020 04:38
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Elviscat posted:You can run all the way out to that corner in the crawlspace if you want, if you do that probably the easiest way would be to use SE cable, then sleeve it in PVC from below grade on the corner of the house, then all the way up that post, then transition back to just SE cable when you hit the carport rafters. I'm going to have to bury it for 4-5 feet though; isn't SE not rated for burying? Would this be fine for running from the 100a breaker on the outdoor panel to the subpanel, regardless of in pvc conduit or not? Or, would this be better - URD? skylined! fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Sep 3, 2020 |
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Sep 3, 2020 19:54
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Ugh, sorry about that, type SE was banned as a wiring method in my jurisdiction, so I'm not as familiar with it as I should be. That type URD cable is not listed by the NEC, which means only utilities can use it. Type USE cable has to be sleeved in PVC anywhere it's not buried. I think your best option is to just use PVC the whole way and pull individual conductors through it.
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Sep 4, 2020 00:08
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Elviscat posted:Ugh, sorry about that, type SE was banned as a wiring method in my jurisdiction, so I'm not as familiar with it as I should be. Yea, just realized that. Oops. Planning on running PVC from panel to panel. So this should be good to run individual conductors, yea? I finally found the drat table in the NEC.
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Sep 4, 2020 00:24
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Yeah, that or THWN (all THHN I know of is dual rated as this) which bizarrely doesn't show up on their website.
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Sep 4, 2020 02:45
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I asked the Ask A Question tab on that website about running URD to a detached garage. They said it was fine and I followed up asking if they’re sure because it’s not code. The president of the loving company emailed me and said he’s been doing this for 30 years and it’s fine and the code inspector is a dumb idiot rear end in a top hat. He emailed me at 930p est. They’re based out of New York. What the gently caress this industry is wild.
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Sep 4, 2020 03:28
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that ceo sounds like his authority has been jurisdicted a time or two
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Sep 4, 2020 03:38
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Please post a redacted screenshot of that email. I want to laugh at people.
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Sep 4, 2020 03:38
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TBF to him, it is probably fine. E: from a "not burning your house down" perspective, not from a code perspective. I've never gotten called an idiot by a CEO before, how much Coke does being a CEO of a wire company get you anyways? E2: doing some research, a lot of URD is dual rated as USE, ir has individual conductors rated as XHHW, the former makes it good for direct burial (but it can't be used inside the shell of a structure) the second makes it fine for use inside conduit, interesting! I looked on the links you provided and couldn't find any dual ratings. Elviscat fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Sep 4, 2020 |
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Sep 4, 2020 03:45
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bEatmstrJ posted:I'm installing a receptacle in my garage but i'm unsure of how to make the transition into the ceiling. Put a old work box in the B junction box, then a one of these in the A box. This will give you a single box that runs from inside the attic to inside the garage, that's legal, code compliant, and easy to work in. It also lets you terminate the conduit and swap from NM stapled in the attic to THHN (or the wires from inside the plastic NM jacket that you liberated) inside the conduit. skylined! posted:Yea, just realized that. Oops. Save yourself a LOT of heartache, and spend the extra cash for copper wire. For a 100A subpanel, you're gonna want to use #2 copper, but you only have to buy black, you can phase tape the cables any place that you can access it (so at each end of the conduit) with the red/white needed, and you'll want a #8 copper ground, in green or bare copper, either is fine. So red, black, white, all in #2, and a #8 ground. Buy like 10 more feet than you think you need, because a wire stretcher is really expensive to rent. You're going to NEED to use a minimum of 1.25" conduit for this, otherwise you'll gently caress up the fill calcs and if anyone notices and calls you on it, it'll be a bastard to go back and fix after the fact. PVC is fine, just make sure that you secure it every 4-6 feet, and within 2 feet of each end. Methylethylaldehyde fucked around with this message at 10:49 on Sep 4, 2020 |
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Sep 4, 2020 10:36
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admiraldennis posted:I'm thinking of installing an IoTaWatt setup, an open power monitoring system similar to Sense but without the questionably-useful machine learning appliance detection or the need for a company to be alive and running servers in the cloud: So as a follow-up to this, I took a bunch of advice in the thread and ended up tracking down the bigger energy hogs manually, which worked. Since I'm stuck at home and all I do are projects nowadays I also ended up going down a rabbit hole with panel monitors and landed on this one as an alternative to the sense, which has none of the lovely "machine learning" and lets you manually label breakers. The iotawatt I opted out of because it looked like there was no good way to hook it directly to the panel for powering and the Vue was much better priced (with more development attached to it as well). It installed quite nicely, wasn't terribly overpriced (so much so that I sprung for the full 16 clamp version, because why not), and is working quite well. 
El Mero Mero fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Sep 6, 2020 |
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Sep 6, 2020 21:59
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Did you find anything surprising about your energy use? As an aside, we had a high bill complaint part week that the service man investigated, and found they had a 1HP irrigation pump running 24/7. From his explanation, it sounds like the consumer didn't know it was running at all, and at some point it lost prime (above ground shallow well pump) and was just spinning away pumping nothing.
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Sep 6, 2020 22:23
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angryrobots posted:Did you find anything surprising about your energy use? I'm going to let it run for a week to collect data (I just installed it a couple days ago) but yeah, it already looks like I've got some question marks to track down.
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Sep 7, 2020 00:30
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El Mero Mero posted:I'm going to let it run for a week to collect data (I just installed it a couple days ago) but yeah, it already looks like I've got some question marks to track down. I'm really interested in how this works out for you compared to the Sense (which I have, and it's.......not great).
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Sep 7, 2020 01:47
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That looks neat. The irony of needing a power outlet for the thing that lives in your panel cracks me up. If I had an outlet close by I would buy this in a heartbeat.
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Sep 7, 2020 01:59
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H110Hawk posted:That looks neat. The irony of needing a power outlet for the thing that lives in your panel cracks me up. If I had an outlet close by I would buy this in a heartbeat. 
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Sep 7, 2020 02:09
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El Mero Mero posted:I'm going to let it run for a week to collect data (I just installed it a couple days ago) but yeah, it already looks like I've got some question marks to track down. Yeah, also interested in a review. I read one of the ones on Amazon, and they mentioned issues with inductive loads, since it can't measure PF. Even still, much better than devices that only have 2 clamps. You can throw as much BS machine learning at it you want; it will never be able to disambiguate smaller load enough to be worth much.
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Sep 7, 2020 02:24
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H110Hawk posted:That looks neat. The irony of needing a power outlet for the thing that lives in your panel cracks me up. If I had an outlet close by I would buy this in a heartbeat. You should be able to add a receptacle near your panel quite easily...
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Sep 7, 2020 05:14
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Elviscat posted:You should be able to add a receptacle near your panel quite easily... This sounds like crazy talk. How would that even work?
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Sep 7, 2020 05:20
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Ensure you have proper space for an additional circuit breaker, if you do not have additional space, make sure you can convert an existing single breaker to a half-time. Once that's done, add the breaker, also add additional strain relief to the bottom of your panel in the form.of... Oh, you're joking aren't you?
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Sep 7, 2020 06:02
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REAL dumb question. My main panel is in my backyard. I have the meter, then directly next to the meter base, a small panel. In that panel are 2 breakers - a 50 amp double pole for the AC (which is labeled as needing a 20 amp breaker...), and a 60 amp for the house subpanel. There are no outlets anywhere on the outside of the house except by the front door. I'd like to add outlets out back, so that we can have lights and stuff. How stupid would it be for me to just slam in a (listed) compatible 15 amp breaker, a few inches of conduit, and a weather-resistant box w/GFCI? I have no way to shut off the main in this case. It's a GE panel, so I'm fairly sure they just clip on to the bus bar. I figure wire up everything, attach the breaker with it off, use heavily insulated gloves and an insulated screwdriver to attach it to the bus bar (if it even needs that), and arc flash my way to Valhalla? At the moment, we're using a socket adapter on the light by the side door + ~30 ft of 16 gauge extension cord to get power out there, so the above is possibly safer. The upside is all of the lighting out there is LED, so we're only pulling about ~30 watts from the cheater. It'd just be nice to get real light out there.
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Sep 7, 2020 17:26
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STR posted:REAL dumb question. No main cutoff for the panel? You've verified nothing behind any panels in the meter box? If you can't kill the panel power and are not experienced in working on live panels with appropriate ppe and tools (you wouldn't be asking here) then Valhalla awaits you brave diy'er.
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Sep 7, 2020 17:38
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H110Hawk posted:No main cutoff for the panel? You've verified nothing behind any panels in the meter box? Yeah, a panel right off the meter has a lot of fault current. This isn't a thing to mess with unless you really like arc flash.
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Sep 7, 2020 17:41
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