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Perception = reality. I'm still figuring it out myself but as long as the party is going "oh poo poo" and overcoming the challenge in 1-2 hours, you're passable. When in doubt, lower CR enemies + environment gimmicks will do enough.
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Sep 3, 2020 23:17
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Lol. The mere expectation that I might consider switching characters after several weeks of playing the character for a change of pace made one person go, "If you do not we're just going to ignore what your character says and does because you shouldn't be switching characters." Because apparently the idea that in the process of creating backup characters I might actually get really into some of them and might be looking for opportunities to give them a spin for a week or two during the campaign is just so unreasonable and such a burden to their ability to roleplay.
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Sep 3, 2020 23:53
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Azza Bamboo posted:I just think people are assuming the worst, like I want a level 7 party to fight a kraken with no unconsciousness or whatever. Just keep in mind - at any time, you could stop rolling less than 15, or your players could stop rolling more than 5. What happens then?
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Sep 3, 2020 23:53
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Easy: No PC goes down. Few if any resources used. Average: No PC goes down but they use resources. Challenging: At least one PC goes down but doesn’t die. Deadly: At least one PC dies. Too Deadly: TPK
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Sep 3, 2020 23:58
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nelson posted:Easy: No PC goes down. Few if any resources used. Add to this that it isn't very fun to be in an encounter where there's literally only one move you can do and any and every other move immediately results in instant death because you have low health, bad saves and in a room full of angry beholders.
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Sep 4, 2020 00:04
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I think it's more fun stumbling into a challenging encounter anyways, it forces everyone to think laterally if there are a ton of enemies on the board that you need to fight/run from/tackle strategically. Ideally it looks overwhelming at first but then once the tables start to turn everyone's pumping their fists
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Sep 4, 2020 00:09
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I present to you, the "The door of analysis paralysis". https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/H4X66BDS8?fbclid=IwAR2-z17SWjkXS_C3cGmbKSmOWay2rcexhTqgVcknVGYeXiF-hMOFMSGZDzo Feedback needed.
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Sep 4, 2020 00:40
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Midig posted:I present to you, the "The door of analysis paralysis". I have showed it to my DM because I know they 100% would spring it on us.
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Sep 4, 2020 00:46
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Midig posted:I present to you, the "The door of analysis paralysis". Is the lesson the PCs are actually going to take from this "not everything will kill you" or "this is a joke trap that serves as a heads-up to check extra carefully for real traps on other doors"?
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Sep 4, 2020 00:58
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The description actually mentions this. But the idea is basically that not everything will kill you. At least not without some kind of warning.
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Sep 4, 2020 01:01
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Midig posted:The description actually mentions this. But the idea is basically that not everything will kill you. At least not without some kind of warning. Yes, that's why I quoted it. My feedback is that I'm not sure PCs will get the message you intend with this. At least, this is what I'd expect the reaction to be from my group to an obviously magical weird door enchanted with illusions that's immune to detect magic: "this door is the warning, the next door might not be so harmless. We should be even more cautious from now on".
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Sep 4, 2020 01:12
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pog boyfriend posted:Extremely helpful advice. MY HERO! This is all great and I appreciate the effort. Great advice on encounter building and I'm already in love with Giffyglyph's Monster Maker. I really appreciate it.
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Sep 4, 2020 01:15
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Oh, ok. I kind of did the opposite once. I ran a DnD game with a bunch of newbs and expectedly enough they acted like murder hobos and other shenanigans I kinda disapprove of. One of them ran into the first room in the dungeon and there was a chest (mimic) in there. My train of thought was that if one of them left the party to loot it without the rest, they would be screwed and it would dissuade them from splitting up and hoarding loot for themselves for the rest of the session. But instead, they figured out "There is no way he has more mimics around".
Midig fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Sep 4, 2020 |
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Sep 4, 2020 01:17
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Reveilled posted:Yes, that's why I quoted it. My feedback is that I'm not sure PCs will get the message you intend with this. At least, this is what I'd expect the reaction to be from my group to an obviously magical weird door enchanted with illusions that's immune to detect magic: "this door is the warning, the next door might not be so harmless. We should be even more cautious from now on". Midig posted:The description actually mentions this. But the idea is basically that not everything will kill you. At least not without some kind of warning. If I were a player and my DM used this, my takeaway would be "Whatever wizard built this place has a lot of illusionary traps, and will try to obfuscate the actual purpose of things. I should poke every wall, to see if that wall is an illusion, and ignore actual threats because they are obviously fake. I cannot use magic to detect these tricks, because this wizard found some way to block divination magic." In other words, its the exact opposite lesson you want to impart.
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Sep 4, 2020 01:18
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Midig posted:Oh, ok. I kind of did the opposite once. I ran a DnD game with a bunch of newbs and expectedly enough they acted like murder hobos and other shenanigans I kinda disapprove of. One of them ran into the first room in the dungeon and there was a chest (mimic) in there. My train of thought was that if one of them left the party to loot it without the rest, they would be screwed and it would dissuade them from splitting up and hoarding loot for themselves for the rest of the session. But instead, they figured out "There is no way he has more mimics around". Sounds like they need to discover the lesson of "there are always more things and they are all mimics"
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Sep 4, 2020 01:30
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I have an entire Very Normal Room filled with Very Normal Stuff. It’s where the dead wizard stored his mimics, but it’s very clearly labeled as such (in one of the wizard’s many thick books).
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Sep 4, 2020 01:33
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Tenik posted:If I were a player and my DM used this, my takeaway would be "Whatever wizard built this place has a lot of illusionary traps, and will try to obfuscate the actual purpose of things. I should poke every wall, to see if that wall is an illusion, and ignore actual threats because they are obviously fake. I cannot use magic to detect these tricks, because this wizard found some way to block divination magic." In other words, its the exact opposite lesson you want to impart. I wanna say that I appreciate the intent behind this door, even if it might not work out that way. Some players I know the type will spend WAY too long analyzing things and maybe finding a way to get players to think more critically about environmental clues would help cut down on unnecessary levels of caution. I'd say that a DC 15 or 20? Arcana check should still reveal that the door is straight up harmless so its not wasting time for higher level adventurers. The goal of it I imagine is to try to condition your lower level, preferably a lower level newbie party into not overthinking every door or puzzle.
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Sep 4, 2020 01:45
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A friend of mine tried to DM a one-shot for me and some others. He ripped off Zee Bradshaw's "Countdown to Nothing" and I accurately called it out in the first 10 seconds. I actually felt bad because I could see how deflated he was, but like... yeah after a certain level of game savvy that stuff won't work. DC 17-20 for knowing the Door does nothing seems reasonable.
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Sep 4, 2020 01:53
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:So, a question about DM style -- when a player proposes doing something that strongly suggests they've forgotten something extremely relevant to their upcoming action -- do you remind them? Or do you let them eat poo poo? You always remind them and you say explicitly why, directly up front. That way if you ever forget and one of the other players reminds you, it looks less like you were planning a trap and should not be trusted, and more like you were a human and made a mistake. Also, because they were trying to do a neat and dramatic thing, and they were not trying to eat poo poo in the middle of the desert along with the person they were shackled to, so why should you even pretend that's a possibility unless they enthusiastically agree to it?
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Sep 4, 2020 03:05
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95% of my parties, both as a DM and as a player, just go "I smash it open" for anything locked like a door, traps be damned. Same for closed things "I burst through the door". This despite several very deadly or difficulty-increasing traps that we have encountered over the years. After enough of these moments a few of our DMs have given up on door traps altogether, and at least one of my groups just break doors on principle as a way of showing both IC and OOC contempt for the idea. Same for chests and other closed things.
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Sep 4, 2020 03:15
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TheDemon posted:95% of my parties, both as a DM and as a player, just go "I smash it open" for anything locked like a door, traps be damned. Same for closed things "I burst through the door". This despite several very deadly or difficulty-increasing traps that we have encountered over the years. After enough of these moments a few of our DMs have given up on door traps altogether, and at least one of my groups just break doors on principle as a way of showing both IC and OOC contempt for the idea. Same for chests and other closed things. My DM I think made the correct call that doing this will destroy the items inside it. If you want magic items you need to actually interact with the magic lock. If you dispel magic on it, poof goes the reward.
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Sep 4, 2020 03:23
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Lockpicking better be fun as hell if you're asking your players to do more than a skill check for it. And to be honest it seems a bit lame if the only way to access a chest reward is through Thieves' Tools. An Athletics or Arcana check seems like it would often be just as valid, and frankly I'd feel robbed if I used a level 3 spell and it arbitrarily erased the contents of a chest. Traps and ambushes in general are typically a lot more fun for the DM than the players. Either you telegraph to your players "this is a set up" and they get super wary, or you surprise them and they rightfully feel blindsided. There's just not a lot of mechanics to engage with, so they typically come down to players having to interpret little hints or getting damaged. I shy away from using them apart from Indiana Jones-style setpieces. Kaal fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Sep 4, 2020 |
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Sep 4, 2020 03:44
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if you put hella traps in a dungeon to soup your players you are actually the one getting souped where they will waste hours of time searching for traps in arbitrary locations for years to come
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Sep 4, 2020 03:47
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also lmao a Magic Item survives disintegration, destroying a magic item because someone decided to use their str to open a chest is laughable.
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Sep 4, 2020 03:47
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Raenir Salazar posted:My DM I think made the correct call that doing this will destroy the items inside it. If you want magic items you need to actually interact with the magic lock. If you dispel magic on it, poof goes the reward. Your DM is the person we break the door down to send a message to. Destroying the loot would only make sending a message more important.
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Sep 4, 2020 04:09
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I’ve always found puzzles in D&D to be almost always contrived. I’ve also found traps to be unfair to players the majority of the time. So what I do now is combine the two: “there is a dead body, there is its location with respect to the space, and there is its perceived condition”. It’s now up to the players to figure out what the trap is and how to navigate it. The players like the puzzle- solving aspect, it doesn’t feel contrived, and nobody feels they were unfairly ambushed on the DM’s whim.
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Sep 4, 2020 04:11
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Dexo posted:also lmao a Magic Item survives disintegration, destroying a magic item because someone decided to use their str to open a chest is laughable. Yeah, this. Last time my players were chasing someone with a macguffin and I told them straight up magic items are usually indestructible; it would straight up suck to fireball someone for a plot item and find out you've accidentally destroyed it.
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Sep 4, 2020 04:13
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TheDemon posted:95% of my parties, both as a DM and as a player, just go "I smash it open" for anything locked like a door, traps be damned. Same for closed things "I burst through the door". This despite several very deadly or difficulty-increasing traps that we have encountered over the years. After enough of these moments a few of our DMs have given up on door traps altogether, and at least one of my groups just break doors on principle as a way of showing both IC and OOC contempt for the idea. Same for chests and other closed things. I do this as a favor to the DM, because every time the whole party is like "Hold on, let's throw a chicken and a bunch of flour at the door and spend ten minutes listening at the door and send a familiar through the door and stick a knife under the door for reflections, and the whole time the DM is visibly rolling his eyes, I know we both die a bit inside.
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Sep 4, 2020 04:37
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Dexo posted:also lmao a Magic Item survives disintegration, destroying a magic item because someone decided to use their str to open a chest is laughable. I corrected myself a bit towards the end of the post, iirc it was Dispel Magic that caused the items to lose their magickness. Though I feel like I recall the DM saying destroying the chest would risk destroying the goodies or something to that effect but I don't think it's ever come up and I am only half remembering and aside that one time with Dispel Magic I don't think its come up since. TheDemon posted:Your DM is the person we break the door down to send a message to. Destroying the loot would only make sending a message more important. Wouldn't you just go through the campaign without magic items? What message does this send back? That you don't care about the puzzles or content the DM is providing? theironjef posted:I do this as a favor to the DM, because every time the whole party is like "Hold on, let's throw a chicken and a bunch of flour at the door and spend ten minutes listening at the door and send a familiar through the door and stick a knife under the door for reflections, and the whole time the DM is visibly rolling his eyes, I know we both die a bit inside. This makes sense of course, as a balancing act between caution when its warranted and acting decisively when its warranted. change my name posted:Yeah, this. Last time my players were chasing someone with a macguffin and I told them straight up magic items are usually indestructible; it would straight up suck to fireball someone for a plot item and find out you've accidentally destroyed it. With one exception, I don't think my DM would do this, it's more that the party can choose to interact with the content or not, the reward is for interacting with the content. You'd never lose out on a magic item from a combat encounter from using AoE spells. The point is to discourage brute forcing every interaction. Raenir Salazar fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Sep 4, 2020 |
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Sep 4, 2020 04:39
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Raenir Salazar posted:Wouldn't you just go through the campaign without magic items? What message does this send back? That you don't care about the puzzles or content the DM is providing? Pretty much. By my reading of TheDemon's group, the message is "we are willing to make life harder on ourselves if it means not having to dance to your stupid tune."
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Sep 4, 2020 04:43
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Pretty much. By my reading of TheDemon's group, the message is "we are willing to make life harder on ourselves if it means not having to dance to your stupid tune." I feel like at that point just get a different DM unless both sides of the screen are okay with the campaign being basically a cat and mouse game between the DM and the players?
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Sep 4, 2020 04:45
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Shitshow posted:So what I do now is combine the two: “there is a dead body, there is its location with respect to the space, and there is its perceived condition”. It’s now up to the players to figure out what the trap is and how to navigate it. This is the best way to trap. Players can figure it out, or just roll for trap finding if they're lazy, and you can get some really fun and creative ways to solve the trap that feels rewarding for the players and gm alike. I made some magic instant-adhering glue surface trap for them, and after a player lost a shoe they spent the next few hours spreading goblin corpses over the sticky surface to make a footpath and reach the treasure.
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Sep 4, 2020 04:51
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Similarly, how does one lay traps when one of the party members took the observant feat and has a passive perception of 22?
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Sep 4, 2020 04:55
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change my name posted:Similarly, how does one lay traps when one of the party members took the observant feat and has a passive perception of 22? Assume they'll find it,make the challenge disarming/avoiding it.
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Sep 4, 2020 04:56
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change my name posted:Similarly, how does one lay traps when one of the party members took the observant feat and has a passive perception of 22? Lay traps just like you would any other time and reward the Observant party member for their investment in passive perception, imo. Like if he just spots all your traps, that's fine, he earned it.
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Sep 4, 2020 04:59
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Also it's a blast to have monsters show up and having ongoing traps killing the monsters and wounding players at the same time.
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Sep 4, 2020 05:00
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Fashionable Jorts posted:Also it's a blast to have monsters show up and having ongoing traps killing the monsters and wounding players at the same time. Honestly one thing I'd love to see in my next campaign is the ability to dismantle and reset traps.
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Sep 4, 2020 06:01
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After hearing “search for traps” every time the party moved in 2e, I think it’s fine to skip the search for traps phase. Just directly tell them there is a trap when they are about to walk into a trap or interact with a trapped object: “You see something odd about the chest/door/floor. It looks like it might be trapped.” And then let the party decide whether to try and disarm it or find another work-around.
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Sep 4, 2020 06:07
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Splicer posted:Dropping to 0 is pretty much in the hands of the GM in 5e. Monsters decide to ignore the gentleman's agreement of wasting arrows on the walking tank and focus fire someone else? Welcome to 0 town. It’s true. At least provide options like cover for the back line PCs if you want the enemies to use tactics. Then if the wizard decides to cast magic missile on his turn instead of dashing behind the big boulder, that’s on him.
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Sep 4, 2020 06:20
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Glazius posted:Just keep in mind - at any time, you could stop rolling less than 15, or your players could stop rolling more than 5. What happens then? If the bad luck storm hits at exactly the moment I'm running the tight encounter? I look them in the eye and make a snap decision then and there. Do they look like they'll enjoy having the threat realised? This table, mainly comprised of wargamers looking for a challenge, I think they're up for "hail Satan" in that set of circumstances. Some of them keep telling me about new characters they're thinking about playing and some have even gone so far as to say they wouldn't mind dying because they have something lined up. My last table, who were really into the story and going for a 80s cartoon hero vibe? I wouldn't be doing this for them. So yeah, for these guys, hail Satan. If the table was people talking like you do, I'd not be asking how I can solve whack a mole. I'd be asking about any issues you brought up. Azza Bamboo fucked around with this message at 09:42 on Sep 4, 2020 |
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Sep 4, 2020 09:34
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