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Really following the letter of the law rather than the spirit, too. Nobody gave humans morphing technology; five individuals humans have been given the ability to morph. They can't actually reproduce the technology or pass it on to anyone else.
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# ? Sep 4, 2020 01:19 |
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# ? May 27, 2024 03:39 |
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And we get our first glimpse of how the Andalite high command are just the biggest dicks. Interesting conversation about guilt I hadn’t noticed too, considering the real guilt Andalites should feel is the genocide of the Hork-Bajir
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# ? Sep 4, 2020 01:28 |
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Wasn't that a Colonel Kurtz scenario? I don't think Ax even know about it.
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# ? Sep 4, 2020 02:07 |
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OctaviusBeaver posted:Wasn't that a Colonel Kurtz scenario? I don't think Ax even know about it. It's not public knowledge, no. Lirem almost certainly knows about it, though.
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# ? Sep 4, 2020 02:32 |
Soup du Jour posted:And we get our first glimpse of how the Andalite high command are just the biggest dicks. Interesting conversation about guilt I hadn’t noticed too, considering the real guilt Andalites should feel is the genocide of the Hork-Bajir Alloran did nothing wrong
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# ? Sep 4, 2020 02:45 |
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Alloran did nothing wrong He turned his back on a Chapman
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# ? Sep 4, 2020 03:05 |
Terror Sweat posted:He turned his back on a Chapman gently caress, you're right
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# ? Sep 4, 2020 03:54 |
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Epicurius posted:The Alien-Chapter 11 It isn’t explored much in the text except for Visser and even there not at length but I’m of the opinion that prolonged contact with complex Human (or Andalite) minds causes a shift in Yeerk psychology to either make them cartoonish psychopaths (Visser 3, Tom’s Yeerk) or start to identify with their host and its needs and wants. Both make sense as a mastery strategy over an ever-present slave in your conscious mind: either crush them constantly or accommodate them so as to blur the lines of who is who. Additionally, the experience of romantic love among humans is so clearly preferable to what exists among Yeerks that it is probably intoxicating in its own right. The only Yeerks who seems to have competently managed this while retaining their sanity and sense of personality have both great intelligence and willpower, namely Visser One. It would also explain why some of the Council of Thirteen are in Taxxon hosts, given the clear inferiority of those to Human or Hork-Bajir. The Taxxon host mind is probably just much more comfortable, as long as it’s well-fed.
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# ? Sep 4, 2020 17:43 |
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ANOTHER SCORCHER posted:It would also explain why some of the Council of Thirteen are in Taxxon hosts, given the clear inferiority of those to Human or Hork-Bajir. The Taxxon host mind is probably just much more comfortable, as long as it’s well-fed. Taxxons are all also voluntary hosts, so I'd imagine that it would have to be a lot easier to have one as a host. My general take on Yeerk relationships is that while they don't have romantic or familial relationships naturally, they can develop friendships and professional relationships.
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# ? Sep 4, 2020 18:25 |
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The Alien-Chapter 13 "You can't always get what you want. But If you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need." A famous human named Rolling Stones said that. I thought it was very wise, for a human. - From the Earth Diary of Aximili-Esgarrouth-Isthill quote:The morning ritual is for normal times. The next morning was not a normal time. He's willing to die for this and he doesn't even know if he believes it anymore. quote:<That's different,> Tobias's voice said. <That's not the ritual you were doing the other day. You didn't step into the water this time.> Because it wouldn't be an Animorphs book without body horror.... quote:I felt the snake's mind emerge beneath my own awareness. Obviously, we're meant to counter the snake's consciousness with Ax's here. The snake has no friends, or family, or laws, and is eager to kill without concern. Chapter 14 quote:I smelled him long before I saw him. I smelled Andalite flesh. The Yeerk that was the real Visser Three - the Yeerk inside the Andalite body - I could not smell. So, trivia here. There are people who believe that a rattlesnake can't strike without first rattling. That's not true. They tend to rattle to frighten predators and alert other animals they see as threats who are getting too close. But they also can strike without warning, and often do. quote:I saw the Visser's head lowered. I saw his two main eyes focus. I could read the dawning fear in his eyes. This is really a pretty inconvenient time to demorph. quote:I saw the Hork-Bajir. And I saw that he saw me. quote:We raced toward the Visser and his guards. Rachel, a huge, rolling brown tidal wave, and me. Above us Tobias flew. It's because he's such a good leader. That's why he inspires such loyalty in his subordinates. quote:The Visser was down. Alone. Helpless, as we came to a stop in a circle around him. He was as helpless as Elfangor had been at the end. Poor Alloran. And poor Ax, who was ready to kill Visser Three, but can't bring himself to kill another Andalite. So what's everyone's take on these two chapters?
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# ? Sep 4, 2020 23:30 |
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Random thoughts: - We find out that the Yeerks have infiltrated the Andalite home world in the same book where a Yeerk betrays Visser 3 - Is this the first time we see Visser 3 off the job? I got the impression that he kind of admired the snake, he's definitely and animal lover - Those 2 Hork Bajir who ran away are going to be in a world of hurt since Visser 3 lived - Alloran is one of the best characters in the series - Ax and Tobias have a lot in common, makes sense that's who Ax confides in
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# ? Sep 4, 2020 23:51 |
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Epicurius posted:So what's everyone's take on these two chapters? They fuckin' rock.
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# ? Sep 5, 2020 00:40 |
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Kinda hosed up that Ax is ok with letting a bunch of humans get murdered when the Yeerk hosts die because of their actions but can't bring himself to kill Alloran despite him literally begging for it (or trying to get him out of there). That said this book was great.
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# ? Sep 5, 2020 00:48 |
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Ravenfood posted:Kinda hosed up that Ax is ok with letting a bunch of humans get murdered when the Yeerk hosts die because of their actions but can't bring himself to kill Alloran despite him literally begging for it (or trying to get him out of there). Yeah, it's a really weak part of an otherwise excellent book.
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# ? Sep 5, 2020 01:12 |
The only reason Ax isn't the best is that Alloran fuckimg rules
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# ? Sep 5, 2020 01:19 |
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I think Ax would have killed him when he was infested, his species wasn't the main reason imo.
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# ? Sep 5, 2020 01:24 |
Also haha holy gently caress I didn't realise it but those two Hork-Bajir are turbodead Once the Visser is back, he'll realise they ran. Two less Yeerks to feed!
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# ? Sep 5, 2020 01:25 |
And - seriously - although it wasn't planned, this is an A+ hit and run raid. Visser Three must be beyond scared at this point.
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# ? Sep 5, 2020 01:27 |
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Tree Bucket posted:Yeah, it's a really weak part of an otherwise excellent book. I don't think it's weak, I think it's contrasting with his "of course the Yeerks are going to kill hosts rather than let them go free, but it's necessary for the cause" attitude from earlier in the book, pointing out that Ax's convictions are not what he thinks they are. In the abstract, when they're nameless, faceless (human and Hork-Bajir) hosts, he acknowledges the military need to let them be killed, because what's important is that breaking the Kandrona weakened the Yeerk cause, and after all, they all think involuntary Controllers would rather die than continue life infested anyway. So it's easy for him to justify it to himself. His excuse for not telling the others that Controllers would die was that Tom is important to them, and he is not convinced that the others would do What's Necessary For The War (like he, an Andalite aristh, would do) if it meant Tom might die. Yet, here, he's faced with the exact same choice: he can kill the host, depriving Visser Three of an Andalite body and morphing ability, and meaningfully affecting the war (and certainly making it easier for the Animorphs, with Visser Three no longer able to either disguise himself or to morph a giant alien with which to kill them). On top of that, the host is, in fact, begging Ax to kill him rather than allow him to be reinfested. But, confronted with the prospect of killing a helpless War-Prince Alloran-Semitur-Corrass instead of letting some nameless humans and Hork-Bajir die... Ax discovers it really isn't that easy to do.
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# ? Sep 5, 2020 01:27 |
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Oh, not killing Alloran makes a lot of sense! But I feel like gorilla-Marco could've attempted to carry him away, at least.
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# ? Sep 5, 2020 01:42 |
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Tree Bucket posted:Oh, not killing Alloran makes a lot of sense! But I feel like gorilla-Marco could've attempted to carry him away, at least. I hadn't considered that, but isn't that just killing him more slowly and painfully? He's too weak to use his tail blade, let alone morph, so the only way he can survive is Yeerk medical treatment for the snake venom.
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# ? Sep 5, 2020 01:49 |
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disaster pastor posted:I hadn't considered that, but isn't that just killing him more slowly and painfully? He's too weak to use his tail blade, let alone morph, so the only way he can survive is Yeerk medical treatment for the snake venom. I mean Cassie's parents would probably have some rattler antivenom, and if Ax had clued them in she could have even brought it with them (in a cute little pouch of course). Also he could theoretically just morph, if venom works the same as injuries.I guess if he's too weak from the venom, plus probably also too mentally weak from the years of enslavement to morph through the failing body like we saw Jake do with the sprayed roach, there isn't much he would have done but slowed them down. E: I guess there's also no way to know ahead of time if Alloran was a cooperative host. Is his Andalite identity known to the homeworld? They should have brought Alloran off with them, though them freeing the Big Bad from brain enslavement eight books into a 54 book series is quite a ratchet up. So I guess killed them. This might have been Ax's first kill though, I think he's mostly been knocking people out and claiming hands since book 4. Unless you include Taxxons, which, we probably should. Is this the first time we've seen Tobias miss something or gently caress up (aside from the first Yeerk pool mission obviously, which, ). I love that hawk boy so much, him and Ax moving forward is such a treat. This might be my favorite book we've done in the thread so far, it's so tightly written and gives great comedy in between the soul crushing intergalactic loneliness. QuickbreathFinisher fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Sep 5, 2020 |
# ? Sep 5, 2020 02:14 |
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I do think killing Alloran only is the optimal play for the animorphs actually. Killing Visser Three is terrible, because a more competent Visser (like Visser One) might take over. If they just kill Alloran Visser Three stays in charge but in a much less deadly body. I also think it’s cowardly to not kill Alloran when he is asking for it. I understand not wanting to do it, or feeling uncomfortable. You would think Jake would volunteer how horrible it is to be a controller.
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# ? Sep 5, 2020 02:38 |
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All true, but, counterpoint, most 13 year olds probably are reluctant to commit euthanasia. It's probably the tactically smart choice to kill Alloran, but a lot of times, people don't make the smart choice.
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# ? Sep 5, 2020 02:48 |
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It's kind of a "Frodo sparing Gollum" moment because Alloran's intervention stops the Andalites from glassing Earth at the end.
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# ? Sep 5, 2020 03:05 |
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OctaviusBeaver posted:We find out that the Yeerks have infiltrated the Andalite home world in the same book where a Yeerk betrays Visser 3. Does this ever come to anything? I feel like it’s a dropped plot line but I may be misremembering. I know the Andalite military has grown more powerful due to the war but that was presented as a consequence of the long conflict not Yeerk subversion. Agreeing with other folks that not killing Alloran comes off as both strategically unwise and a little cowardly. Even if Ax couldn’t bring himself to do it you’d think another one of the Animorphs would. Great book though.
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# ? Sep 5, 2020 03:47 |
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ANOTHER SCORCHER posted:Does this ever come to anything? I feel like it’s a dropped plot line but I may be misremembering. I know the Andalite military has grown more powerful due to the war but that was presented as a consequence of the long conflict not Yeerk subversion. The one with possibly the most reason other than Ax to want to kill him is Tobias, whose hawk body is unfortunately the worst equipped for mercy killing
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# ? Sep 5, 2020 03:57 |
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ANOTHER SCORCHER posted:Does this ever come to anything? I feel like it’s a dropped plot line but I may be misremembering. I know the Andalite military has grown more powerful due to the war but that was presented as a consequence of the long conflict not Yeerk subversion. Sort of, in the Leeran book an Andalite captain is a traitor who's working with the Yeerks. I can't remember it affecting the plot other than that though. I can't imagine it would be easy to hide a Yeerk pool on the Andalite home world. I think not killing Alloran was the morally correct choice, even though it's a strategic disadvantage. I think it's weird to see people condemning the Andalites for genociding the Hork Bajir but also condemn the Animorphs for not killing Alloran, it's the exact same choice just at a different scale
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# ? Sep 5, 2020 04:59 |
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OctaviusBeaver posted:I think not killing Alloran was the morally correct choice, even though it's a strategic disadvantage. I think it's weird to see people condemning the Andalites for genociding the Hork Bajir but also condemn the Animorphs for not killing Alloran, it's the exact same choice just at a different scale
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# ? Sep 5, 2020 05:07 |
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The important bit about Ax not killing Alloran is to show that these are still child soldiers with the emphasis on child. They're also still very new to war. This is only Book 8, they've been at this for what, 6 months? That's not much experience. I think its unreasonable to expect a 13/14 year old to kill an adult face to face.
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# ? Sep 5, 2020 05:22 |
OctaviusBeaver posted:Sort of, in the Leeran book an Andalite captain is a traitor who's working with the Yeerks. I can't remember it affecting the plot other than that though. I can't imagine it would be easy to hide a Yeerk pool on the Andalite home world. I'm on the record as being FOR the Hork-Bajir genocide, just so it's absolutely plain what I mean when I say Alloran did nothing wrong.
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# ? Sep 5, 2020 05:41 |
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OctaviusBeaver posted:Sort of, in the Leeran book an Andalite captain is a traitor who's working with the Yeerks. I can't remember it affecting the plot other than that though. I can't imagine it would be easy to hide a Yeerk pool on the Andalite home world. Yeah and it's dropped after that, with that only being book 18. Which, speaking of, I think is one of my favourites in the series and is an even better Ax book than this one.
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# ? Sep 5, 2020 06:00 |
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It's really neat how from their first appearance, the Hork-Bajir are repeatedly emphasized as being peaceful and unwilling slaves of the Yeerks. They're so inherently imposing and villainous that you could just assume they allied with the Yeerks like the Taxxons. It tells a cautionary tale for Earth and also sets up future stories. There's lots of scenes that have me wondering how much Applegate had things planned out in advance. The Yeerk infestation of the Andalite homeworld ****************************kinda goes nowhere, but**************************, there's Hork-Bajir foreshadowing from the very beginning, shades of Elfangor being Tobias's father, Crayak... All of this stuff could have been happy accidents, but it works well regardless.
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# ? Sep 5, 2020 10:23 |
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Rochallor posted:There's lots of scenes that have me wondering how much Applegate had things planned out in advance. The Yeerk infestation of the Andalite homeworld ****************************kinda goes nowhere, but**************************, there's Hork-Bajir foreshadowing from the very beginning, shades of Elfangor being Tobias's father, Crayak... All of this stuff could have been happy accidents, but it works well regardless. I get the impression she'd probably planned out a lot of the story arc for the first 20-25 books, but it was such a smash hit she decided to keep churning it out (with the help of ghostwriters). Compare it to Everworld, by contrast, which only ran for about 12 books. (Though I can't recall if that even had a satisfying ending or not.) I say 10-25 because even in that range I think there's a bit of filler. The next book, IIRC, is a bit of a dud, and there's the internet one and the morphing allergy one... although even as I write that it occurs to me that they're less "filler" and more "an idea for a book that didn't really come off well."
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# ? Sep 5, 2020 10:45 |
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freebooter posted:I say 10-25 because even in that range I think there's a bit of filler. The next book, IIRC, is a bit of a dud, and there's the internet one and the morphing allergy one... although even as I write that it occurs to me that they're less "filler" and more "an idea for a book that didn't really come off well." I remembered the series as having a lot of filler so it's been pretty surprising seeing how plot-heavy the books so far have been, though yeah I think that starts next book. That has one of the other things that stuck with me, though-- the first place I learned about using tomato juice to get rid of a skunk's spray. The internet one I remember as being pretty inconsequential, but I'm sure that its look at mid-90s internet culture is going to be an amazing read-through.
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# ? Sep 5, 2020 11:13 |
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The Alien-Chapter 15 "Give me liberty or give me death." A human named Patrick Henry said that. I wonder if the Yeerks knew before they came to conquer Earth that humans said things like that. I wonder if the Yeerks knew what they were getting into. - From the Earth Diary of Aximlli-Esgarrouth-Isthill quote:<We call it the law of Seerow's Kindness,> I said. I don't think this chapter needs comments. I think any interstitial stuff I put in will just weaken it. But it's really good. The Alien-Epilogue quote:<You'll do it because if you don't, I'll find a way to tell Visser Three who set him up,> I told Eslin, the Yeerk traitor. And that's the story of how the Animorphs became 6 instead of 5. I really though this was a good book. It might even be my favorite so far. Tomorrow, we start The Secret. It's a Cassie book. I think it's...eh, but there's a part that consistently makes me laugh.
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# ? Sep 6, 2020 00:59 |
I forgot just how much happens in these first 8 books. That coda is something special.
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# ? Sep 6, 2020 01:52 |
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Joe Biden voice:Marco posted:We're Homo sapiens, Jack. This book ruled.
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# ? Sep 6, 2020 01:59 |
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Literally the only bad thing about this book is that it's the start of Scholastic forcing KAA to alternate Tobias and Ax books instead of each of them getting a book in each "cycle." On the other hand, it does kind of work out for them: there are only one or two Ax books below "great" quality, and I don't think Tobias has a single one (though some of his are not fun, exactly). I don't think I can say that about the others. Maybe Marco?
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# ? Sep 6, 2020 03:16 |
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# ? May 27, 2024 03:39 |
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disaster pastor posted:Literally the only bad thing about this book is that it's the start of Scholastic forcing KAA to alternate Tobias and Ax books instead of each of them getting a book in each "cycle." That's really interesting. I wonder what the rationale was? "hey now, as if kids are gonna relate to characters who feel isolated from their families and different from their peers!"
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# ? Sep 6, 2020 03:38 |