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yes sexual predation and blatant pedophilia is extremely normalized in those genres and Twilight went even further than just a super old creep predating on a child, she also had a baby and a werewolf said "I will gently caress this baby someday soon" don't do the head logistics, just say "This is creepy bad poo poo written by a creepy bad person" and kick it to the trash can
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Sep 6, 2020 15:37
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Black August posted:also if you have to debate and think through the age implications of this creepshit then you're already stumbling way too far towards a real bad place and should walk away Bismuth posted:Sorry I was really high when I posted that, I was trying to think about the implications as in, what would the least bad way to do that be, like how do you have a creature with a rate of ageing that doesn't line up with humans be in a relationship in a non creepy way. I know we've all sort of accepted "500 year old elf/vampire/whatever falls in love with teen/YA human" thanks to its prevalence in media as "normal" but its always seemed equally weird and creepy to me as would a human and some creature that matured at 2-4x our growth rate. If you dont accept human growth rates as some kind of base for "normal" a lot of popular fantasy relationships start getting way weirder.
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Sep 6, 2020 15:45
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Black August posted:yes sexual predation and blatant pedophilia is extremely normalized in those genres and Twilight went even further than just a super old creep predating on a child, she also had a baby and a werewolf said "I will gently caress this baby someday soon" For awhile i saw people saying "its sexist to hate on twilight, people only hate it because its popular with women" or "you only hate it because its cool to hate popular stuff" i saW those arguments on THESE FORUMS For fucks sake, that poo poo EARNS its hate PetraCore posted:All crows in the Tortall universe can shapeshift into humans and back and are fully sapient, they just don't normally shapeshift because they think humans are real dumb and clumsy. Nawat is an adult and is never presented as childlike. When he decides to stay with Aly he starts spending most of his time in a humanoid shape so his rate of aging goes that way, and sex does happen but always fades to black real early because it's a young adult series, not adult pseudoporn. Oh that's good, I'm glad that YA fiction has actually sort of emerged as its own thing separate from all the weird adult fantasy poo poo we were reading as kids
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Sep 6, 2020 16:12
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Hey I really don't think we need to get into weird gross sex hypotheticals or quote them in this thread.
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Sep 6, 2020 16:28
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I think you can hate a thing for different reasons. About a decade ago all the visible hate for twilight wasn't due to hosed up views of the author or downright pedophilic content but because of "gay glitter vampires" and that's not good
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Sep 6, 2020 16:28
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Colonel Cancer posted:I think you can hate a thing for different reasons. About a decade ago all the visible hate for twilight wasn't due to hosed up views of the author or downright pedophilic content but because of "gay glitter vampires" and that's not good Oh yeah, that was dumb, but to say there's no legitimate reason to hate it its stupid as all hell
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Sep 6, 2020 16:29
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Bismuth posted:Oh yeah, that was dumb, but to say there's no legitimate reason to hate it its stupid as all hell Tbh it's a hilarious trolling angle
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Sep 6, 2020 16:30
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Bismuth posted:For awhile i saw people saying "its sexist to hate on twilight, people only hate it because its popular with women" or "you only hate it because its cool to hate popular stuff" i saW those arguments on THESE FORUMS A lot of the hate for Twilight was in fact really sexist and rooted in the deep misogyny our culture holds for girls and young women. That can be true while at the same time Twilight itself being patriarchal, sexist garbage. I totally agree about the defined split between YA and adult genre fiction, though. Everytime someone would whine about these teen books with sex and violence in them, I'd point out that before Twilight or Hunger Games came along teenagers were reading V.C. Andrews and Steven King. This thread is basically one long tribute the garbage we read as tweens and teens because there wasn't a dedicated genre for that age group where authors and editors considered what content is appropriate. Naomi Novak has a book called Uprooted that has a teenage? girl start a sexual relationship with her 100+years old, technically her teacher character, and I would absolutely put it in the hands of a 13 year old long before one of Piers Anthony's "some women are just too pretty to resist raping" pun-fests. there wolf fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Sep 6, 2020 |
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Sep 6, 2020 16:33
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Colonel Cancer posted:Ugh whiteface drow is probably offensive Fanfic Drizzt where he also battles the prejudice that comes with having vitiligo sounds like it's a few name changes away from the next Twilight series.
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Sep 6, 2020 16:44
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there wolf posted:A lot of the hate for Twilight was in fact really sexist and rooted in the deep misogyny our culture holds for girls and young women. That can be true while at the same time Twilight itself being patriarchal, sexist garbage. Okay i agree BUT the backlash of people saying it was sexist TO hate twilight were even worse imo because that's basically condoning what's in the books, and that started happening way after the "hurr twilight bad" thing faded out of media/public. I only saw it among very online people who should have known better twilight really feels like a throwback to the garbage romance fantasy of the 80s/90s, it just needs some character-inaccurate cheesy painted covers and you'd never know the difference. With like, all 3 main teens painted to look like they're in their 30s and edward is wearing one of those pirate shirts and the werewolf is super uncomfortably racist (but not outright hatefully) in that 90s way E: ugh gently caress i remember adults encouraging me to read steven king even as a kid so i read some short story compilation because the regular books were dauntingly huge and there was a kid getting raped by a librarian among other poo poo and that's why I never read the stand or it Bismuth fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Sep 6, 2020 |
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Sep 6, 2020 16:47
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There's some good discussion on Twilight going on in chitoryu12's Let's Read, and END ME SCOOB maaaaay have abandoned his Sword of Truth thread (who could blame him but I'm still holding out hope) but if you havent read it, it gets more into the... Goodkind. I really dont know what else to call that.
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Sep 6, 2020 17:20
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twistedmentat posted:I'm watching a youtuber go to Spirit of Halloween and they have Drizzt and Cattie-Brie costumes I didn’t know there were catholic schoolgirls in the Durzizzzzt novels.
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Sep 6, 2020 17:51
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I read a Drizzt book once and I remember nothing, absolutely nothing interesting happen in it. Sure Drizzt killed some people and there may have been a dwarf but Ill be damned if I know why or why I should care. I think there was a dwarf, some dual swords, Drizzts appearance being lovingly described, and that I assumed R. A. Salvatore was a woman aaaaaand thats all I got.
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Sep 6, 2020 18:02
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I remember Drizzt spilling his spaghetti at an elf orgy and running away
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Sep 6, 2020 18:05
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Colonel Cancer posted:I remember Drizzt spilling his spaghetti at an elf orgy and running away He was supposed to gently caress his half-sister, him being a child of the battlemaster and the matron mother of his family, not the patron figure.
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Sep 6, 2020 18:33
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Jack-Off Lantern posted:He was supposed to gently caress his half-sister, him being a child of the battlemaster and the matron mother of his family, not the patron figure. Yeah he dishonored his matron and his family, what a lovely millenial
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Sep 6, 2020 18:35
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I read all the drizzt novels and what I really recall is that RA described one of the drow as being "tall" at 4'11" or so which meant whenever I thought of drizzt in the other books no matter how else they described him I imagined him being like 4'10" Just a real feisty lil guy
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Sep 6, 2020 19:13
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Bismuth posted:I read all the drizzt novels and what I really recall is that RA described one of the drow as being "tall" at 4'11" or so which meant whenever I thought of drizzt in the other books no matter how else they described him I imagined him being like 4'10"
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Sep 6, 2020 19:20
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PetraCore posted:Tiny drow are in fact the funniest possible drow. Yeah I absolutely love them being like, the chihuahuas of the elf world. So small, so angry, will bite more than any other breed.
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Sep 6, 2020 19:21
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One of the "good" Drizzt novels I remember was Siege of Darkness, the one Drow and duergar (also kobolds?) siege the not-Moria during Time of Troubles. Thousand Orc were okay-ish and also one of the last FR books.
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Sep 6, 2020 19:22
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That's something you do not like about D&D, evles are short. What are they, Santa's workshop elves?
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Sep 6, 2020 19:59
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I think reimagining Lolth as a santa claus like deity has some merit.
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Sep 6, 2020 20:01
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Bismuth posted:Yeah I absolutely love them being like, the chihuahuas of the elf world. So small, so angry, will bite more than any other breed. They are also the Republicans of the Elf world. Following a very bossy and mean God. Required to follow rules. But any rule can be broken as long as you don't get caught. Drow are hilarious for that reason. Basically its a conservative hellscape but with evil spider goddess and lots of bdsm and Objectivist stuff. Its why I root for Deep Gnomes. Those poor folks gotta put up with Drow and Duergar and Mind Flayers and Aboleths n crap. So unlike every other DnD or related gnome they are cranky miserable bastards who need all the Prozac in the multiverse just to keep going cuz they are surrounded by douchebags.
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Sep 6, 2020 20:08
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twistedmentat posted:That's something you do not like about D&D, evles are short. What are they, Santa's workshop elves? Actually its ONLY drow, the other elves are all tall. Thats why its funny
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Sep 6, 2020 20:22
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How do all of these gross books keep getting published? Isn't it supposed to be really difficult to get published?
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Sep 6, 2020 20:27
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Bismuth posted:Actually its ONLY drow, the other elves are all tall. Thats why its funny
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Sep 6, 2020 20:41
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PetraCore posted:It's all that stale underdark air. It does actually make sense that cave dwelling elves would be smaller, but that kind of environmental thoughtfulness seems rare in fantasy
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Sep 6, 2020 20:42
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But why are they black instead of being albino and blind 
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Sep 6, 2020 20:43
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Colonel Cancer posted:But why are they black instead of being albino and blind As for the blind part, I believe drow in canon actually mostly use infrared vision to navigate by heat. EDIT: like it's a thing but I also think Gygax was concerned far less with worldbuilding than making things to fight. PetraCore fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Sep 6, 2020 |
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Sep 6, 2020 20:47
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Ok I've acquired the first one of these Dragonlance books and I'm going to see how far I can read it on this very day. Can't be worse then wow lore.
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Sep 6, 2020 20:52
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Yeah drow have infravision, which I always thought was pretty rad. I agree they should be albino, i always decided to rationalize it as a protection against subterranean radiation
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Sep 6, 2020 20:53
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Idk a whole race of underground CG rebels fighting back against their conservative culture just doesn't seem realistic enough for MY elf games
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Sep 6, 2020 21:00
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sharknado slashfic posted:Ok I've acquired the first one of these Dragonlance books and I'm going to see how far I can read it on this very day. Can't be worse then wow lore. Didn't make it through the first chapter and I've decided to do literally anything else with my time.
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Sep 6, 2020 21:18
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sharknado slashfic posted:Didn't make it through the first chapter and I've decided to do literally anything else with my time. 
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Sep 6, 2020 21:23
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I bought an anthology pack of the first 3 drizzt books for cheap because I figured what the hell and wanted something to read. I can't even get through the first one.
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Sep 6, 2020 21:31
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Nebrilos posted:Isn't it supposed to be really difficult to get published? slappin, my knee here, good one these days no it is not and back then you just has to know someone who knew someone and boom your child rape pornography is a New York Times #1 best seller
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Sep 6, 2020 21:32
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I had a solid laugh that everyone has these elf names and then Drizzt's mother is just named Malice, though.
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Sep 6, 2020 21:34
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Bismuth posted:Yeah drow have infravision, which I always thought was pretty rad. I agree they should be albino, i always decided to rationalize it as a protection against subterranean radiation you could have cool and weird Drow WITH the extremely racist and loving weird pitch-black skin... if you reflavored them as like Elves surviving in orbit with magic or some derelict space station, so they're all terrifying spindly things with midnight solar-resisting skin and other alienish features
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Sep 6, 2020 21:34
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sharknado slashfic posted:Didn't make it through the first chapter and I've decided to do literally anything else with my time. I didn't really rate Dragonlance even when I read them as a teenager back in the day*. The one time as an adult I was bored and thought I'd reread them, I think I got maybe 50 pages. *And believe me, it wasn't because I was too good for shlock fantasy novels, as my teenage bookshelves would testify.
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Sep 6, 2020 21:49
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Black August posted:you could have cool and weird Drow WITH the extremely racist and loving weird pitch-black skin... if you reflavored them as like Elves surviving in orbit with magic or some derelict space station, so they're all terrifying spindly things with midnight solar-resisting skin and other alienish features Yeaaaah, though by the time I was reading drizzt books they were described as being black to gray and dark lavender colors so they at least weren't just inky black sword midgets
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Sep 6, 2020 21:51
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