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yeah nevermind the skin alone it's just so clearly a weird fetish race by design
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Sep 7, 2020 00:48
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Yeah, MY fetish
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Sep 7, 2020 00:48
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Bismuth posted:Yeah, MY fetish plz keep your fetishes out of bookstores
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Sep 7, 2020 00:50
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Black August posted:yeah nevermind the skin alone it's just so clearly a weird fetish race by design
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Sep 7, 2020 00:51
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Idk if it's really overdone though. If you're going to have a bunch of humans in funny hats you might as well copy the whole animal kingdom.
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Sep 7, 2020 00:53
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if the setting is that magic who gives a poo poo you can take an afternoon Sunday quest to become Willowhouse the 9-foot hafling
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Sep 7, 2020 00:53
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Like a really dig how Discworld dwarves all have beards and don't really have an outward gender expression aside from later books where some hussies in Ankh Morpork start wearing chainmail miniskirts because of corrupting human influence idk
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Sep 7, 2020 00:55
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Colonel Cancer posted:Idk if it's really overdone though. If you're going to have a bunch of humans in funny hats you might as well copy the whole animal kingdom. well I think it's a valid writing idea to study an animal in depth, and then try to extrapolate a handful of societies and ways such a species might have a society with sapience temper it with a handful of common sense 'human' traits (nothing that'd logically lead to immediate self-destruction), play around with it for a few stories, optionally inject some fantastical elements in even more fantastical settings, and see what you get
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Sep 7, 2020 00:56
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And yet somehow it always ends up with horny rabbit people
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Sep 7, 2020 00:58
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Black August posted:well I think it's a valid writing idea to study an animal in depth, and then try to extrapolate a handful of societies and ways such a species might have a society with sapience
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Sep 7, 2020 00:59
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I actually remember I had one dumbass idea to explain the Drow once, and that was taking Lloth to a an extreme by framing her as a insane art/performance/experiment God, who stole a huge city of elves a long time ago and hid them all way underground to hide from the other Gods and people, and then placed them into a really bizarre and performative-enforced society, turning them into her live entertainment and sort of Friend Computer (but arty/sadistic) like mini-world. So sort of like if the Houses of Morrowind were all devoted to art or circus stuff and live plays, but all the plays are for real and plotting to keep things interesting in a well-paced way is vital. Those who truly entertain Lloth see favor, but they had BETTER keep being freshly entertaining at all times. The Drow are divinely-mutated, abuse, and mad, but well aware and desire to escape at all costs, which is its own grand nightmare adventure to get out from under the eye of a God. Those who do run screaming to the surface to adjust and join surviving societies. The problem is that Lloth often sends her ranking best and most loyal to the surface to kidnap people (and escaped Drow) for entertainment in special shows. They tend to be really strong and really vile, so there's a difficult mixed reputation and stress of the situation and inability to find the place in a permanent sense to save it.
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Sep 7, 2020 01:10
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Deptfordx posted:I didn't really rate Dragonlance even when I read them as a teenager back in the day*. The one time as an adult I was bored and thought I'd reread them, I think I got maybe 50 pages. Yeah I don't have highbrow taste in books; I read warhammer ffs
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Sep 7, 2020 01:56
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Say what you like about Warhammer but they've somehow managed to keep the sex weirds out of the fluff. I think the worst you'd find is a mention of a bit of tit on the odd daemon or evil elf sorceress. They just went all in on the fascism instead.
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Sep 7, 2020 02:05
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Didn't they have a sex weird god(des?) who puts tits on everything and gets way too horny
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Sep 7, 2020 02:07
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Colonel Cancer posted:Didn't they have a sex weird god(des?) who puts tits on everything and gets way too horny
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Sep 7, 2020 02:09
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PetraCore posted:Sorta feels like that's a criticism of the people who need to put their fetish into everything, though. Given that Slaanesh or however it's spelled is a manifestation of cosmic corruption and everything escalates. Idk Warhammer always felt like basically Gor but for edgier grognards
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Sep 7, 2020 02:12
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Colonel Cancer posted:Idk Warhammer always felt like basically Gor but for edgier grognards At least gor and xanth have the guts to be sick filth. 40k and dragonlance are total garbage churned out for those who can't pull themselves away from corporate shared worlds.
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Sep 7, 2020 02:26
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Does Game of Thrones fit in with Bad Fantasy or does it get a pass because it's mainstream due to HBO?
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Sep 7, 2020 02:59
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All fantasy fits in with the bad fantasy friend 
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Sep 7, 2020 03:01
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Cowslips Warren posted:Does Game of Thrones fit in with Bad Fantasy or does it get a pass because it's mainstream due to HBO? GRRM sucks rear end so post away
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Sep 7, 2020 03:04
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any fantasy books you enjoyed as a teenager were almost certainly bad, and there's a pretty good chance the author was a sex offender. game of thrones isn't quite as bad as most of them, but it's still not what i'd call good any more. also, grrm isn't a sex offender though i'm pretty sure if he ate a meal where children could see they'd be traumatized for life.
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Sep 7, 2020 03:13
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darkwasthenight posted:Say what you like about Warhammer but they've somehow managed to keep the sex weirds out of the fluff. I think the worst you'd find is a mention of a bit of tit on the odd daemon or evil elf sorceress. They just went all in on the fascism instead. There was Fulgrim and the  Pear of Anguish, But thankfully they keep that stuff out of their modern books. Now it's just good old-fashioned fascism for the whole family.
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Sep 7, 2020 03:41
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The Underdark works if you picture it as Fantasy North Korea; a bunch of people essentially trapped in an inhospitable place, locked in perpetual conflict. Most of drow society lives in squalor, convinced that the only reason they're stuck down there and not in their RIGHTFUL place is because of the Evil Overworlders. Resources are controlled by the people at the top, a literal religious cult. the only way to get up from the bottom, living on mushroom soup, is to prove yourself to a noble house (said act generally requiring destroying something/someone from another noble house, keeping the zero-sum game going.) Plus, there's an actual Goddess and her fanatical religious order controlling all the clerical magic and making the Inquisition look amateurish. Anyone tries to escape the zero-sum existence, they and everyone close to them get killed (or worse). Occasional raids Overland bring in booty to reward followers, and reinforce the perception (largely based in reality) that everyone else hates drow. "The "sexy armor/outfits" makes sense; in a society where women run everything, flaunting your feminity would be a show of power, and you could feed any man who looked at you wrong to the spiders...okay, now I feel even dirtier. I'll stick with "drow as BDSM fantasy" over "drow as MRA propaganda."
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Sep 7, 2020 03:41
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Ninurta posted:There was Fulgrim and the Lmao is this poo poo for real
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Sep 7, 2020 03:43
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Colonel Cancer posted:Lmao is this poo poo for real Yes, it is. I probably should have chosen the Orks cover instead to be a bit more thread relevant. https://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-adventures/wha-40k/war-of-the-orks-ebook-2020.html
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Sep 7, 2020 03:45
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Well, they're hanging out with a rogue trader and a xeno, so they can't be too bad. I hope. Now I'm imagining WH40K Golden Books. "This is a Space Marine. Look at him kill xenos. See the flamer squad. Look at them purging the heretics. If you were killed by a space Marine, you were probably a heretic."
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Sep 7, 2020 03:49
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WotC have a book coming out for D&D that is going to switch racial attributes with cultural. And at least GRUM has only villains doing the rape and bad poo poo to women, and its never celebrated or justified. Though he gets a bit too discriptive and he's real bad for the "her breasts bounced breastfully and she breastly brested across the breast" style writing of women.
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Sep 7, 2020 04:21
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Children should be traumatized by what they read. I read Red Dragon and Silence of the Lambs when I was 11 and 12. Fantasy and sci-fi need to be even more hosed up than those. Removing perversion from fantasy and sci-fi would be like removing magic and spaceships, the center just wouldn’t hold, it’d be utter madness, next thing you know it’d be jocks writing all the wizard books and there’d only be arousing, non-gross sex scenes filled with consenting adults. Seriously, it’s for the gross people, leave it that way.
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Sep 7, 2020 04:26
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Black August posted:plz keep your fetishes out of bookstores Why should I, if the authors dont?
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Sep 7, 2020 04:33
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i think sometimes you have to remember that fiction is fiction and sometimes people write things that they don't really think about how it comes across or implies. or they're just genuinely trying to be edgy and subversive, i remember a lot of the praise for GRRM before game of thrones made his stuff mainstream was how it didn't follow traditional storytelling tropes, like the red wedding offing one of the protagonists of the series. basically what i'm saying is that people can write bad and horrifying fiction but it doesn't mean they're sex offenders or serial killers in disguise, otherwise everyone who wrote terrible snarry fanfiction as a teen would be under suspicion. on the other hand, there are still things that just jump out like an enormous red flag, like the scene in that piers anthony book where some guy defends some dude for having sex with a underage girl in court, framing it as a positive and good thing, plus the girl wanted to have sex with him so it's not like he was forcing her into anything! and then the entire court stood up and clapped with the judge immediately declaring the guy not guilty.
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Sep 7, 2020 05:56
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Splash Attack posted:i think sometimes you have to remember that fiction is fiction and sometimes people write things that they don't really think about how it comes across or implies. or they're just genuinely trying to be edgy and subversive, i remember a lot of the praise for GRRM before game of thrones made his stuff mainstream was how it didn't follow traditional storytelling tropes, like the red wedding offing one of the protagonists of the series. basically what i'm saying is that people can write bad and horrifying fiction but it doesn't mean they're sex offenders or serial killers in disguise, otherwise everyone who wrote terrible snarry fanfiction as a teen would be under suspicion. I think its often kind of clear from the context of the story whether the author agrees with the terrible thing happening. If the author (like piers anthony) is portraying the terrible thing in a positive light then thats a huge red flag. If the thing that happens seems out of place and has no bearing or necessity to the plot, thats ANOTHER one, because if its shoe-horned in that means it was probably horn-dogged in. So uh, in conclusion, you can usually tell by the context of the writing if the author is enjoying this or portraying it as bad, so if they seem like they're writing about time-travel enabled pedophilia with their dick in their hand, then I'd say its safe to call them a gross creep irl
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Sep 7, 2020 06:47
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Also GRRM is trying to make a point about how medieval societies were absolutely garbage places to live with little laws protecting you if you weren't rich and powerful and how basically every fantasy story ignores this when they set themselves in any kind of pre modern style society. It was even worse if you were a woman, even highborn you had little chance of your life being your own. When mentioning that I always get 'yes but if you're writing an fantasy story why do you have ot make it realistic with all the terrible stuff that was commonplace in humanity until only fairly recently?" and i'm thinking there's lots of stories out there that are like that, why can't someone write one with all the rough stuff in it? Thing is, look at who is doing the terrible stuff. Richard Rahl beats and rapes women constantly but he's still the hero even when he kills a bunch of pacifists. The Mountain is never shown as anything other than a horrible person, so he being a murderous rapist is, well not okay, but acceptable because he's never shown in a heroic light. There is this weird thing I notice in bad leftist criticisms of stuff that villains aren't bad guys, that villains are the creators actual beliefs seeking through because they can be a mask to hide your true feelings. Story where the villain wants to eradicate gnomes? Well, that means the author actually hates jews and is a nazi. It's a real lovely version of death of the author where critics feel like they can ignore everything that doesn't fit with their goals, ignoring context, intent and the actual text of the work.
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Sep 7, 2020 06:55
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:any fantasy books you enjoyed as a teenager were almost certainly bad, and there's a pretty good chance the author was a sex offender. game of thrones isn't quite as bad as most of them, but it's still not what i'd call good any more. The Abhorsen trilogy was very good  it was definitely just a trilogy, there were no books after that
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Sep 7, 2020 07:15
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Colonel Cancer posted:Personally I'm not a fan of just murdering and looting hordes of sentient races. If you want always evil bad guys who don't surrender you have demons and undead for a good reason pathfinder 2e fixed a lot of this by changing races to "ancestries" and making them more-or-less interchangeable. between that and making goblins into a non-evil part of the setting the creators got death threats from the rpgcodex types and some hilarious 1-star amazon reviews: quote:Suggestions on personal pronouns and ways to indicate to your GM that "you're feeling uncomfortable"? Too bad. This isn't kindergarten, folks. If you're in my game and you're uncomfortable, feel free to find another GM who will hold your pasty, frail little hand. I'll have none of that at my gaming table. quote:wish I had bought it on Amazon... so I could return it. quote:We are role playing, getting away from our own lives and experiencing a world with different laws and expectations. Orcs raid, pillage, and rape. Half-orcs come about for a reason. Tribalism exists and the races undermine each other, there should be a challenge in bringing groups together or overcoming your differences.
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Sep 7, 2020 07:32
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Solenna posted:I read I think the first 6 Drizzt books and in retrospect the special ultra talented at fighting rebel with two fancy swords, a magical cat friend and unusually coloured eyes who ran away from his terrible society and won over people in other places by being so cool and good is maybe more towards the Mary Sue end of the spectrum than I first realized. Looking back on it though, I think I might have been the nerdiest one in that scenario. He seemed genuinely surprised that the jig was up, and I had a figure of Drizzt I'd been carting around for like 20 years.
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Sep 7, 2020 07:37
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enomie posted:I once played D&D as an adult with someone who showed up for the first game after bragging about how great he was at D&D, and his character was a good Drow ranger with two scimitars. He tried to play it off like he came up with it himself, like he seemed to think he was the only person who'd ever read any Drizzt books. I'll never forget the look on his face when I pulled out my 80s Ral Partha Drizzt figure and said "oh hey, you can use this maybe?" I mean, both huge nerds yes, but you weren't trying to deceive anyone so you still come up on top (for honesty)
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Sep 7, 2020 07:59
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Bro Dad posted:pathfinder 2e fixed a lot of this by changing races to "ancestries" and making them more-or-less interchangeable. between that and making goblins into a non-evil part of the setting the creators got death threats from the rpgcodex types and some hilarious 1-star amazon reviews: Yeah lol I've read a bunch of these. Unsurprisingly dorks continue to be the worst
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Sep 7, 2020 09:23
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Cobalt-60 posted:
In the Ciaphis Cain books* they sometimes throw in world-building references to stuff like: That old nursery song "Crush the Heretics under the Land Raiders tracks." * Which, TLDR, are kind of Flashman in 40k.
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Sep 7, 2020 09:23
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Say what you will about the Drizzt books but for the most part they're just kinda pulpy swords and sorcery adventure stories and at their core are about how racism is stupid and bad. Also by all accounts RA Salvatore is a nice guy who is not a sex pest pervert and his books don't come off as outlets for his endless fetishes. That doesn't mean they're high art but you know they kinda don't even rate in this thread.
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Sep 7, 2020 14:11
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Colonel Cancer posted:Yeah lol I've read a bunch of these. Unsurprisingly dorks continue to be the worst Yeah I've heard the reason that the new Avengers game got completely mis-marketed as just a grindy live action game and the existance of the actual, apparently fun,* decent size campaign went almost unmentioned. Is that when they first started talking about it and the fact that it's framed about Ms Marvel, a young Islamic woman, all the usual suspects threw their toys out of the pram and raged online about "That ain't mah Avengers". *I've not played it, just seems to be the online consensus.
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Sep 7, 2020 14:13
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