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its probably just not the show for me tbh. it just feels extremely inconsistent and not what I expected. its still early but I'm going to take a break for a while and see if things improve
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Sep 4, 2020 21:51
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From the couple guys at work I talk to about TV, I think the different expectations is a big thing. They were both thinking it would be a long, slow, Lovecraft nightmare. It's not that, it's a pulp horror romp, with racism as the biggest horror element. I didn't get in to it expecting anything and I'm liking it a lot.
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Sep 4, 2020 22:02
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Seven Hundred Bee posted:episode 1 was so good but just been downhill from there. i also agree that episode 2 and 3 don't really seem to be 'particularly' lovecraftian and that this the same jarring music/overstylized visuals that sunk Hunters for me That's what sunk Hunters for you? Huh. Ep 4 was better than 2&3. The biggest issue for me is pacing. 2&3 just moved way too fast for horror but didn't have enough action/adventure to be action/adventure. 3 was the worst offender here but an hour long show is just a poor format for a haunted house story unless you can go full Twilight Zone and deliver a solid twist (even then, most haunted house episodes of Twlight Zone-like shows are pretty loving awful). In retrospect, Ep 1 had the same issues as 2&3 but novelty makes up for a lot of sins. Ep 4 was a fun Hardy Boys/Indiana Jones/Pulp Adventure story. Best episode of the show so far. People complain about the anarchonistic music, which I don't get. Whitey on the Moon was misused in Ep 2 but that's more a function of the "song" being more of a spoken word poem. Using music to "tell, not show" is absolutely a sin this show commits but used the music to "tell not show" in a less obtrusive way than previous episodes.
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Sep 4, 2020 22:30
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Where are you people watching episode 4???
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Sep 4, 2020 22:56
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My TV? In my house. Sitting next to my spouse surrounded by kittens and children.
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Sep 4, 2020 23:49
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oh weird it's streaming early on HBO Max apparently
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Sep 4, 2020 23:51
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The novel was written by a white dude? That's a bummer
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Sep 4, 2020 23:53
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Just got finished with a early watch of Episode 4 on HBOMax. Its super good. Probably my favorite episode so far.
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Sep 5, 2020 03:22
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Episode 4 rules as soon as they opened the vault with that light beam and descended the rope into the tomb I was like oh gently caress yeah this is the adventure serial Indiana Jones episode. a subsequent bridge over an enormous chasm complete with swinging blade later and I was literally just waiting for a temple of doom reference to complete the trilogy. then he had to stick his hand in the scary hole to unlock the door and escape the metaphorical crushing. the cowardly academic dad who knows the lore better than his more gritty son, we even got a reverse Last Crusade rapid aging, followed by the chamber collapsing when they try to remove the “Grail.” Atticus wearing that tank top and backpack and his huge guns just framed in every shot. the cheesy kiss in the elevator, so awesome. what a fun show
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Sep 5, 2020 05:00
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The sorceress can't act at all like even a little bit and it's the most jarring thing about this show
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Sep 5, 2020 19:54
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Seven Hundred Bee posted:i also agree that episode 2 and 3 don't really seem to be 'particularly' lovecraftian Hiram Epstein is Herbert West. There's even a chapter in the Re-Animator where West performs experiments on a black man.
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Sep 6, 2020 11:10
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:The novel was written by a white dude? That's a bummer Take heart then, it's spiraling way off the book by this point.
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Sep 6, 2020 18:35
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s1e4: Hello, trans character! Oh. Goodbye, trans character.
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Sep 7, 2020 01:13
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Madurai posted:s1e4: Hello, trans character! Oh. Goodbye, trans character. Was she supposed to be transgender? I thought she was a hermaphrodite, and they were doing a Native American third gender thing with her "knowing two worlds" or however she put it. On another gender related subject, they keep making a big deal out of the fact Christina Braithwaite can never be like the other cultists in that she's a woman and is therefore instantly considered inferior. I noticed that she went in the house and that blonde guy William immediately came out, and started to wonder if the two of them had been on screen together yet and if they might be one in the same.
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Sep 7, 2020 03:06
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Gordon Shumway posted:Was she supposed to be transgender? I thought she was a hermaphrodite, and they were doing a Native American third gender thing with her "knowing two worlds" or however she put it.
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Sep 7, 2020 04:07
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Gordon Shumway posted:Was she supposed to be transgender? I thought she was a hermaphrodite, and they were doing a Native American third gender thing with her "knowing two worlds" or however she put it. She refers to herself as "two-spirit", which is kind of like an umbrella term that encompasses what other cultures we'd call "transgender" or "intersex." They can also consider themselves one of those groups, but like, not every indigenous person is comfortable w that due to colonialism being a motherfucker. Anyhow, everything about her treatment is really my exit point for this show, wow. I already thought a lot of the writing was lackluster but oof. Introducing her nude, with "what are you?" (i know there's magic bullshit everywhere but for real, you don't think this implication through?) Tic punching her in the face. And while I suspect it won't be a death that sticks, she doesn't even make it out of the episode without a slit throat. Aaaand the actress is cis, unless I'm misinformed somehow. As a trans person myself it was extremely jarring and disgusting. 
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Sep 7, 2020 05:52
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just watching the new episode and holy poo poo they’re in sen’s fortress
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Sep 7, 2020 06:04
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big 'The Goonies' vibes from E4.
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Sep 7, 2020 09:51
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StarkingBarfish posted:big 'The Goonies' vibes from E4.  At the end of E3, when Tic was talking to the Aryan Witch, they introduced the idea of subterranean treasure hunting and I was thinking "that would be a good episode"...and they really didn't make us wait for it. Great pulpy fun. I wonder why Montrose kills Yahima, though. I assume it's because of something he has read in the Order of the Ancient Dawn handbook or, most likely, cause he really really want to stop Atticus from getting into a (losing) magical arms race with the Grand Wizards - as his lines in the pub seem to indicate.
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Sep 7, 2020 13:41
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I dunno I bought Montrose’s explanation for why he’s been cockblocking everything and just wrote off the very weird book burning scene as what he explained it to be, but the throat slitting is so cold blooded and efficient especially after his moment with Tic that it feels like something else is going on. like does anything about what we’ve seen of this dude make him seem like the kind of guy who could just cold-blooded slash a throat like that? i dunno i think there’s more to how he’s acting than just trying to protect tic from getting in too deep, feels like there’s something else going on there
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Sep 7, 2020 17:09
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The fashion model reading off the teleprompter is the same person as Budget Skarsgård, right? Like she has some spell that turns her into a Man? Although he bloodied his knuckles in that fist fight and she's invincible so maybe not. They pull a Mrs Doubtfire every time they're on screen and that can't be coincidental Also I know they're going for Period Appropriate but the homophobia this episode was not cool. I forget the exact lines but it was like Character: I made you see a gay blowjob. Your dad is gay, and you are gay too Tic: I'm not a SISSY Why include that
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Sep 7, 2020 19:46
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Gordon Shumway posted:Was she supposed to be transgender? I thought she was a hermaphrodite, and they were doing a Native American third gender thing with her "knowing two worlds" or however she put it. My understanding of the Two-Spirit thing is that it was used in the same way that we'd use "gender-nonconforming" or "non-binary" today, but yes, the character was clearly intersexed. And they've been playing coy with Christina/William before, but I think that scene was our confirmation that you're correct.
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Sep 7, 2020 19:47
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:The fashion model reading off the teleprompter is the same person as Budget Skarsgård, right? Like she has some spell that turns her into a Man? Wait why is the racism ok because 'that's how it was' but the homophobia isn't? Did you perceive it as being condoned by the writers?
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Sep 7, 2020 20:07
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Regarde Aduck posted:Wait why is the racism ok because 'that's how it was' but the homophobia isn't? Did you perceive it as being condoned by the writers? No, of course not. Under no circumstances is racism OK. Unlike the racism, the homophobia and transphobia were committed by the main characters, who are not nameless faceless "Bad Guys" To put it simply, I don't like when protagonists are homophobic. Obviously protagonist =/= "good guys" but it still makes me do a 
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Sep 7, 2020 20:10
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So the implication is Montrose is gay, in which case Tic will have to come to grips with that? Again a fun episode of a whole 'nother genre, though Jesus, things went fast again at the end. Character introduced (they seemed to have two sets of genitalia next to each other, which I think barring some absorbed-twin scenario is not a real thing?), "turned into a siren," and then killed. Honestly not sure what to think of that.
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Sep 7, 2020 21:07
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Also I know they're going for Period Appropriate but the homophobia this episode was not cool. I forget the exact lines but it was like Because believe it or not the world was different back then. You seem to keep coming to this thread to get offended too.
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Sep 7, 2020 21:08
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Doltos posted:Because believe it or not the world was different back then. You seem to keep coming to this thread to get offended too. I don't know what you're trying to say here - And what do you mean I keep coming to this thread to get offended? Are you saying I'm a triggered lib or something? I'm just sharing my thoughts on the show which have recently trended toward the negative. I'll rephrase my gripe re: the homophobic slur. Imagine an Indiana Jones movie that takes place in 1940 but is released in 2020. Nazi Scientist: Mister Jones, soon you will be dead, like the filthy Jews and Gypsies, whom I want to kill all of [the Nazi punches Indiana Jones] Indiana Jones: You punch like a f*g In this hypothetical, I would find the Indiana Jones dialog to be more problematic even though the Nazi is saying a more horrific thing. It doesn't matter if it's reflective of the world back then, because it's media produced in and for 2020. If your protagonist is a homophobe and does not face immediate repercussion for their homophobia, then you've produced homophobic media.
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Sep 7, 2020 21:24
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I’ve only watched the first two episodes, but does anyone else have complaints about the audio? The normal talking will be quiet as gently caress but then the monsters or music is loud as poo poo so I’m constantly adjusting volume.
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Sep 7, 2020 21:47
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nwin posted:I’ve only watched the first two episodes, but does anyone else have complaints about the audio? Yeah, this show and Umbrella Academy both have incredibly quiet dialog and loud sound effects
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Sep 7, 2020 21:48
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:It doesn't matter if it's reflective of the world back then, because it's media produced in and for 2020. If your protagonist is a homophobe and does not face immediate repercussion for their homophobia, then you've produced homophobic media. Maybe you would prefer a marvel movie instead of being confronted with the reality of 1950s america? Portraying homophobia does not make something homophobic - context is what matters. The show isn't dropping slurs willy-nilly just for the sake of it. Clearly it's critiquing the milieu.
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Sep 7, 2020 21:50
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Moltke posted:the reality of 1950s america? Uh... not all black men in the 1950s were homophobic. It was a specific choice (by a white man, in 2016) to make him one. The show deserves incredible kudos for its portrayal of the milieu. I just think making Tic a gaybasher was a misstep is all
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Sep 7, 2020 21:54
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Uh... not all black men in the 1950s were homophobic. It was a specific choice (by a white man, in 2016) to make him one. Homophobia and transphobia is rampant in the community just like it's rampant in other communities. Being black doesn't mean Atticus is a flawless character, same with his friends.
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Sep 7, 2020 21:59
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Uh... not all black men in the 1950s were homophobic. It was a specific choice (by a white man, in 2016) to make him one. Actually it was a choice by a black woman in 2020. Does that make it better, or worse for you?
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Sep 7, 2020 22:01
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:No, of course not. Under no circumstances is racism OK. Unlike the racism, the homophobia and transphobia were committed by the main characters, who are not nameless faceless "Bad Guys" i have bad news but homophobia and transphobia are not only committed by nameless faceless Bad Guys. GoGoGadgetChris posted:It doesn't matter if it's reflective of the world back then, because it's media produced in and for 2020. If your protagonist is a homophobe and does not face immediate repercussion for their homophobia, then you've produced homophobic media. no, you’ve produced media with a homophobic character who does not face immediate repercussions for their homophobia. it is not the job of all stories to be fictional depictions of the ideal world we’d all prefer to live in. that’s a fine thing for media or a piece of art to do, but it seems like this probably isn’t about doing that and therefore might not be for you as a side note, most of the racist characters in this show haven’t faced repercussions either, but the show doesn’t strike me as racist. maybe examine why you’re more comfortable with depictions of white supremacist cruelty to black people than you are to tic being quietly homophobic
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Sep 7, 2020 22:02
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Mulva posted:Actually it was a choice by a black woman in 2020. Does that make it better, or worse for you? Significantly better! I assumed Tic's character was accurate to the Matt Ruff novel. I am not qualified to judge a POC's decisions in writing POC characters so I literally cannot be bothered by it and have no opinion of any value on the matter. Mandrel posted:maybe examine why you’re more comfortable with depictions of white supremacist cruelty to black people than you are to tic being quietly homophobic The depictions of white supremacist cruelty to black people are infinitely more painful to watch than the quiet homophobia. I did not mean to sound tolerant of the racism by discussing the intent & impact of the homophobia, which I thought had been a decision made by a white person.
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Sep 7, 2020 22:20
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That doesn't make it any better or worse. You literally were just mad that it presents homophobia in a positive light and is dangerous media but because you learned it's a black woman it's okay. In the end you're missing the point that it was a reflection on how people would act and behave in the time period.
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Sep 7, 2020 22:41
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Doltos posted:That doesn't make it any better or worse. You literally were just mad that it presents homophobia in a positive light and is dangerous media but because you learned it's a black woman it's okay. In the end you're missing the point that it was a reflection on how people would act and behave in the time period. Hm, can't say I actually agree with any part of this post, but I do hear, respect and acknowledge your opinion
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Sep 7, 2020 22:56
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Does Atticus even have a problem with Sammy or the concept of being gay, especially for someone in the 50s? I don't think Tic has ever shown any kind of disdain/contempt for the few gay characters we have seen him met before and I guess this is more all the extra layers - the secrets Montrose has kept from Tic and his mother, to the point of Tic maybe even considering his true parentage, especially with what has been shown already on the show - together with the unexpected, sudden reveal.
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Sep 7, 2020 23:09
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That Italian Guy posted:Does Atticus even have a problem with Sammy or the concept of being gay, especially for someone in the 50s? I don't think Tic has ever shown any kind of disdain/contempt for the few gay characters we have seen him met before and I guess this is more all the extra layers - the secrets Montrose has kept from Tic and his mother, to the point of Tic maybe even considering his true parentage, especially with what has been shown already on the show - together with the unexpected, sudden reveal. Also, this is the same show that gave James Baldwin the mic in episode one.
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Sep 7, 2020 23:42
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nwin posted:I’ve only watched the first two episodes, but does anyone else have complaints about the audio? Same. This last episode was especially bad for it
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Sep 7, 2020 23:57
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