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Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

caleb posted:

Kins is Freeman cautiously pushing the thing into the reactor and the rest of us are the ensuing chaos

Uh...it's probably not a problem... probably... but I'm showing a small discrepancy in...well, no, it's well within acceptable posting bounds again. Sustaining thread sequence.

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Copper Vein
Mar 14, 2007

...and we liked it that way.
I probably skipped over a lot of stuff in the RD streams by trying to scrub past all the "studio" stuff, but I don't remember Hell Hunt or HROT showing up at all outside of a few seconds in a montage. Come to think of it, the only Civvie I saw was when they were playing ROTT 13 for twenty minutes.

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Has Not Actually Done Cocaine

Narcissus1916 posted:

Did not expect this thread to go introspective again, like it did back when Ion Fury came out.

As individuals, I don't think its our right to police what art we can and cannot enjoy. For instance, I think mission impossible is probably the best action franchise of all time, even though Tom Cruise is... a deeply problematic individual.

I deserve the right to enjoy that series. But I also know that I shouldn't force anyone else to agree with me, if they're uncomfortable with the artists. For instance, I can't watch anything Woody Allen does because they're ALL full of creepy "old man trying to get laid with underage" subtext.

But media outlets have a duty to, at the very least, give proper context to the work that they're highlighting. Sometimes you can't separate the art from the artist, because the two are so closely linked. Take a look at the way that once JK Rowling outed herself as a loud and proud bigot people are now going back to Harry Potter and reading it with a VERY different set of context clues.

I don't really have a point here, but I will say its also easier to discover how scummy developers are when they're more amateur and smaller production teams. I have no doubt that there's plenty of ugly bigotry at major companies, its just a little more hidden under layers and layers of bureaucracy.

Good post

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 12, 2015

by Cyrano4747

Copper Vein posted:

I probably skipped over a lot of stuff in the RD streams by trying to scrub past all the "studio" stuff, but I don't remember Hell Hunt or HROT showing up at all outside of a few seconds in a montage. Come to think of it, the only Civvie I saw was when they were playing ROTT 13 for twenty minutes.

given the other stuff that's come up I wouldn't be shocked if a lot of the "good" people basically noped the gently caress out.

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

Overall, I find both SoF games to be fun, with the caveat for both being that there are levels that I loving despise having to play again, whether it's some of the dull industrial levels of SoF 1, or the one stealth-or-nothing level or the jungle levels of SoF 2. Both of those games knew what they were, though: A way to show off the engine by giving you an onslaught of enemies to try the tech out on.

Guillermus
Dec 28, 2009



ETPC posted:

this is a good post. all people need to do is be critical.

also yeah it's infuriating how good mission impossible is post 2

The very start of Mission Impossible 2 was offensive for lots of people here in Spain but I found it hilarious because they hired someone (or a group) to give them advice about how to show spanish traditions... and they screwed it up to Scary Movie levels and when you think it can't be worse, they double down with the dialogue. For context, Seville (my city) looks like a northern african city and they carry burning images mixing our Holy week with Valencia's fallas (where they burn big rear end dummies) with a mashup of different attires. The movie is a giant mess overall but it gets better with every new movie on the franchise.

I like Tom Cruise's films but I'm not a fan of the person outside.

Tim Thomas
Feb 12, 2008
breakdancin the night away

Plan Z posted:

Overall, I find both SoF games to be fun, with the caveat for both being that there are levels that I loving despise having to play again, whether it's some of the dull industrial levels of SoF 1, or the one stealth-or-nothing level or the jungle levels of SoF 2. Both of those games knew what they were, though: A way to show off the engine by giving you an onslaught of enemies to try the tech out on.

I enjoyed shotgunning neonazis and the train level, despite not being a good train level, was indeed a train level, so props to that

the nucas
Sep 12, 2002
i tried replaying SOF1 after doing Shadow Warrior and Duke 3d a few months ago and my determination was it aged worse than Shogo.

game that aged the best: interestingly, Sin. huge level variety, great atmosphere, solid music, the reactivity/inter-level effects are still way ahead of their time (oh look the island is erupting in flame because i hosed up the geothermal plant 3 levels back), the dick jokes are just as lame as they already were in 1998 when i was literally still in middle school.

great atmosphere from the skyboxes and stuff, i think ~reloaded~ will probably degrade the lo-fi charm.

al-azad
May 28, 2009



the nucas posted:

i tried replaying SOF1 after doing Shadow Warrior and Duke 3d a few months ago and my determination was it aged worse than Shogo.

This is a take right here. Shogo is only better than Blood 2 in that you're actually given enough ammo, you'll still trigger an enemy with a rocket launcher that turns into an instant turret with zero reaction time like you're playing Quake on nightmare.

Gotta add that SoF's difficulty sliders are more in depth than Fresh Supply and it suuuucks no game ever followed suit.

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 12, 2015

by Cyrano4747

al-azad posted:

This is a take right here. Shogo is only better than Blood 2 in that you're actually given enough ammo, you'll still trigger an enemy with a rocket launcher that turns into an instant turret with zero reaction time like you're playing Quake on nightmare.

Shogo is significantly better than Blood 2 for the simple fact that it's a functioning, finished game

It's way the gently caress too hard for its own good, but that doesn't put it anywhere near Blood 2 territory

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

Who was the psycho dev on Shogo who decided that enemies could score crits on you.

Guillermus
Dec 28, 2009



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuFkSrEkM8c

I could listen to them rambling about their design decisions all day.

Guillermus fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Sep 8, 2020

SeANMcBAY
Jun 28, 2006

Look on the bright side.



I much prefer Timesplitters Future Perfect to 2 due to the more modern controls. I’m sorry but I can’t go back to the original Goldeneye style controls at this point.

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

SeANMcBAY posted:

I much prefer Timesplitters Future Perfect to 2 due to the more modern controls. I’m sorry but I can’t go back to the original Goldeneye style controls at this point.

I played the poo poo out of both and never noticed a big difference between the two, control-wise. Couple more features in FP, but they seemed to play the same, didn't they?

Also, definitely use the c buttons for movement, and the stick to look, wrt Goldeneye/PD64.

SolidSnakesBandana
Jul 1, 2007

Infinite ammo
Mouse Injector at 60fps is the only way to play those games. I can't believe how good I must have been at Goldeneye back in the day, trying to play through it on 00 Agent requires John Wick levels of headshot action to succeed.

the nucas
Sep 12, 2002

WeedlordGoku69 posted:

Shogo is significantly better than Blood 2 for the simple fact that it's a functioning, finished game

It's way the gently caress too hard for its own good, but that doesn't put it anywhere near Blood 2 territory

Shogo got a patch later in it's life that caused NPCs to snap and face in a given direction instantly instead of rotate in place. it was more forgiving before that and I remember running the older version when I wanted to replay it on CD.

SeANMcBAY
Jun 28, 2006

Look on the bright side.



Rupert Buttermilk posted:

I played the poo poo out of both and never noticed a big difference between the two, control-wise. Couple more features in FP, but they seemed to play the same, didn't they?

Also, definitely use the c buttons for movement, and the stick to look, wrt Goldeneye/PD64.

FP has options to make it control like modern dual stick shooters while 2 does not. I love Goldeneye and PD but I could never go back to either with the original controls. I hope a port of Goldeneye, like the excellent PDHD port, could come out someday.

Negostrike
Aug 15, 2015


I'll never get enough about the way Hitler just loving melts when he dies in Wolf3D. Just brilliant.

SeANMcBAY
Jun 28, 2006

Look on the bright side.



Negostrike posted:

I'll never get enough about the way Hitler just loving melts when he dies in Wolf3D. Just brilliant.

They better not disappoint with MachineGames Wolf 3. They mention that BJ killed Hitler in Youngblood so they better let us play that and have it be glorious.

SeANMcBAY fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Sep 8, 2020

Adnor
Jan 11, 2013

Justice for Daisy

Just finished ULTRAKILL's early access, amazing gameplay but holy poo poo it's hard, at least on Violent. Final boss of the act killed me 63 times.

al-azad
May 28, 2009



Negostrike posted:

I'll never get enough about the way Hitler just loving melts when he dies in Wolf3D. Just brilliant.

Also shoutout to Bionic Commando where Hitler also melts. Thank Raiders for melting Nazis.

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Has Not Actually Done Cocaine

al-azad posted:

Also shoutout to Bionic Commando where Hitler also melts. Thank Raiders for melting Nazis.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGfb8yfJpp8
Skip to about 1:50

An Actual Princess
Dec 23, 2006

Adnor posted:

Just finished ULTRAKILL's early access, amazing gameplay but holy poo poo it's hard, at least on Violent. Final boss of the act killed me 63 times.

what a rad loving boss though. one of my all time fave fps bosses

Cream-of-Plenty
Apr 21, 2010

"The world is a hellish place, and bad writing is destroying the quality of our suffering."

Negostrike posted:

I'll never get enough about the way Hitler just loving melts when he dies in Wolf3D. Just brilliant.

I was actually going to point this out when the video was posted earlier. As a kid I was always fascinated with how the dude just liquefies.

Adnor
Jan 11, 2013

Justice for Daisy

Overwatch Porn posted:

what a rad loving boss though. one of my all time fave fps bosses

Oh yeah, even after dying all those times I was having fun!

Foolishness, machine!

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

laserghost posted:

So I'll risk a guess that this shouldn't be happening in the newest MetaDoom:




Hanged corpses have turned into those skull piles and red things, that are not only are shootable, but also block movement.

Using GZDoom 4.3.3. and the map is Demonastery.
Looks like Demonastery changes some of the hanging corpse props via DEHACKED to be its own new skull pile props. Normally MetaDoom checks for DEHACKED-modified actors and doesn't replace them, but Demonastery does it in a way that I'm not checking for yet. While I look into whether or not it's even possible for me to detect those kinds of changes, you can go to Options > MetaDoom Options > MetaDoom Spawning Options and set "Enhanced/Breakable Props" to "Disallow - Vanilla Only". Sorry about the hassle!

Copper Vein posted:

I probably skipped over a lot of stuff in the RD streams by trying to scrub past all the "studio" stuff, but I don't remember Hell Hunt or HROT showing up at all outside of a few seconds in a montage. Come to think of it, the only Civvie I saw was when they were playing ROTT 13 for twenty minutes.
They had trailers run in the between-segment trailer clusters. I don't think they've been uploaded seperately yet. Civvie's involvement was relegated to shitposting in Twitch chat and getting his rear end beaten at ROTT 2013.

Trying to find the trailers, however, led me to a new special demo of Hell Hunt released for Realms Deep that adds a ten-wave survival mode on top of the previous demo's campaign stuff.

laserghost
Feb 12, 2014

trust me, I'm a cat.

The Kins posted:

Looks like Demonastery changes some of the hanging corpse props via DEHACKED to be its own new skull pile props. Normally MetaDoom checks for DEHACKED-modified actors and doesn't replace them, but Demonastery does it in a way that I'm not checking for yet. While I look into whether or not it's even possible for me to detect those kinds of changes, you can go to Options > MetaDoom Options > MetaDoom Spawning Options and set "Enhanced/Breakable Props" to "Disallow - Vanilla Only". Sorry about the hassle!

Oy, completely forgot that the vanilla Demonastery does this thing with the skull piles. Such a neat little decoration effect. Still cool that you have somehow predicted it and it can be disabled!

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

laserghost posted:

Oy, completely forgot that the vanilla Demonastery does this thing with the skull piles. Such a neat little decoration effect. Still cool that you have somehow predicted it and it can be disabled!
I've added a pretty hacky fix where if a DEHACKED patch does the thing Demonastery does, Enhanced/Breakable Prop replacements will be forcibly disabled. Thanks for pointing this out!

juggalo baby coffin
Dec 2, 2007

How would the dog wear goggles and even more than that, who makes the goggles?


i am not super enthusiastic about how chud-adjacent retro fps gaming has become

its like loads of people assume people liked duke nukem 3d for duke himself, or even the public outrage about duke, and not because it was a fun game with cool environments

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



juggalo baby coffin posted:

i am not super enthusiastic about how chud-adjacent retro fps gaming has become


I would say the problem is that, the game dev community for it is so small that just two devs being chuds makes the average change noticiable, and suddenly a visible % of the community is chud-adjacent. If two chud devs would appear on the strategy genre, well, it's just 2 of 100, 2%, here it's more like 15%.

Volte
Oct 4, 2004

woosh woosh

juggalo baby coffin posted:

i am not super enthusiastic about how chud-adjacent retro fps gaming has become

its like loads of people assume people liked duke nukem 3d for duke himself, or even the public outrage about duke, and not because it was a fun game with cool environments
I don't think Duke has much to do with it specifically, it's just that the retro FPS scene has very long roots. It was a community full of edgy teenagers in the 90s and some people never grew out of it. I was not surprised when I found out the Ion Fury lead dev is TerminX, who I remember from the 3D Realms forum in like 1998. I don't remember any of his posts or anything specifically but judging by the stuff I do remember about interacting with people from that community, that whole thing makes a lot of sense in context.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


Turin Turambar posted:

I would say the problem is that, the game dev community for it is so small that just two devs being chuds makes the average change noticiable, and suddenly a visible % of the community is chud-adjacent. If two chud devs would appear on the strategy genre, well, it's just 2 of 100, 2%, here it's more like 15%.

Right it's more that there aren't a lot of "big" projects and when one of the top ones has shitheads at the helm it's magnified. It doesn't help that it seems the new 3D Realms head is also a shithead - the speedrunning community has an issue with sex assaulters and racists but the big events have been good lately about banning them. If those specific Ion Fury devs had become persona non grata and the Hatred guys not been "invited in" we'd have moved past it.

UnknownMercenary
Nov 1, 2011

I LIKE IT
WAY WAY TOO LOUD


Volte posted:

I don't think Duke has much to do with it specifically, it's just that the retro FPS scene has very long roots. It was a community full of edgy teenagers in the 90s and some people never grew out of it. I was not surprised when I found out the Ion Fury lead dev is TerminX, who I remember from the 3D Realms forum in like 1998. I don't remember any of his posts or anything specifically but judging by the stuff I do remember about interacting with people from that community, that whole thing makes a lot of sense in context.

His meltdown in the DNF thread sure was something. :allears:

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004


I haven't heard from him in a while... :ohdear:

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Volte posted:

I don't think Duke has much to do with it specifically, it's just that the retro FPS scene has very long roots. It was a community full of edgy teenagers in the 90s and some people never grew out of it. I was not surprised when I found out the Ion Fury lead dev is TerminX, who I remember from the 3D Realms forum in like 1998. I don't remember any of his posts or anything specifically but judging by the stuff I do remember about interacting with people from that community, that whole thing makes a lot of sense in context.

Now that I think about it, the problematic side of retro FPS has been always on the 'Build' branch of the FPS history. From D3D hookers, to Shadow Warrior's racism, to DNF... everything, and still continues today with Ion Fury's dev comments. I guess the other main branch, the 'id' branch of Doom and Quakes and its clones, has always been so preoccupied by gameplay and aesthetics and an abstractness far away from the real world, that it's hard to be problematic at all, when you are that disinterested to reflect the real world in some form into the game.

al-azad
May 28, 2009



What are your recommendations for fun standalone weapon sets or additions to Doom that don't directly mess with the game's balance? Looking to spice up vanilla Doom.

90s Cringe Rock
Nov 29, 2006
:gay:
It's the 3D, drives people to bigotry. Just too many dimensions. Quake got away with it by being overwhelmingly brown and having you kill white culture (knights, vore fans who keep shooting their fetish at you, giant white dudes shooting lightning).

Shooters should have stayed 2.5D nazi-killers.

Convex
Aug 19, 2010

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

Uh...it's probably not a problem... probably... but I'm showing a small discrepancy in...well, no, it's well within acceptable posting bounds again. Sustaining thread sequence.

lol

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



al-azad posted:

What are your recommendations for fun standalone weapon sets or additions to Doom that don't directly mess with the game's balance? Looking to spice up vanilla Doom.

Well, any standalone weapon set is potentially going to mess up the balance. Some more, others less.

Fan favorite weapon sets and Final Doomer, High Noon Drifter, Eriguns I and II. Some overpowered mods (opposite of what you are asking) are Guncaster, Trailblazer and Typhon. To be Honest HND is half way there.

If you want spice up the gaphicx and feel of weapons of vanilla Doom, try Hires Smooth Doom. And perkristian hi-res Doom sound pack.

Another way to do it without touching up the balance would be having new monster skins, try Shades of Doom.

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Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


Replacing "Mein Leben!" with "Wow can't handle a different opinion?!"

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