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Pretty sure a book back Ax made a remark that he can't use thought speak in human morph because they have a mouth or something. Which makes no sense but I kind of understand the narrative convenience of it.
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# ? Sep 8, 2020 08:10 |
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# ? May 24, 2024 14:21 |
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MrNemo posted:Pretty sure a book back Ax made a remark that he can't use thought speak in human morph because they have a mouth or something. Which makes no sense but I kind of understand the narrative convenience of it.
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# ? Sep 8, 2020 15:19 |
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Fritzler posted:Same, but related to this book 15 spoilers: I know they transform into parrots to harrass the rainforest cafe. Can they thoughtspeak as parrots? Yes.
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# ? Sep 8, 2020 15:24 |
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quote:I felt my hearts stop. It was more than I could stand. After years of being controlled by Visser Three, the mind of the Andalite host was still alive. Still aware. That makes it sound like Ax believes that someone who's been a Controller for a few years would normally undergo irreversible ego-death. I don't remember this coming up in later books. I'm tempted to speculate that this is Andalite military propaganda to make them feel less bad about killing Controllers. But maybe I'm just reading too much into it?
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# ? Sep 8, 2020 18:38 |
Chapman could barely stand after... however long, and V3 is a particularly vicious Yeerk. I'd probably be every bit as surprised.
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# ? Sep 8, 2020 18:49 |
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Silver2195 posted:That makes it sound like Ax believes that someone who's been a Controller for a few years would normally undergo irreversible ego-death. I don't remember this coming up in later books. I'm tempted to speculate that this is Andalite military propaganda to make them feel less bad about killing Controllers. But maybe I'm just reading too much into it? Maybe, but we've seen from the memories of Jake's Yeerk that Tom has been reduced to a quivering mess, his only resistance desperate begging his Yeerik to leave Jake alone, and the woman Rachel ran into in the Megamorphs book who was a former Yeerk host is completely mentally broken and emotionally destroyed. So complete ego death sounds like a pretty good description of long term Yeerk infestation.
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# ? Sep 8, 2020 18:53 |
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Book 9: The Secret-Chapter 5quote:Wolves can run. Wolves can run all through the night, without stopping or slowing or taking a break. We ran, Marco and I, jumping fallen logs, swerving through trees, and skirting patches of thorns. She forgot about....Rachel probably? quote:<The place is just ahead. Lots of heavy equipment. Guards. But go take a look. Just be careful.> You really think she would have remembered that. quote:<Good point.> I fell silent. I had heard a noise. Several noises. Movement. Careful, stealthy movement. So Andalite tail blades can actually cut through steel. And remember, Ax is still young and not fully grown. quote:<Yikes! That was a little close!> Marco said. But he surged through the hole in the net and took off. I was right behind him. Wolves are already fast. But when you get a scared wolf with a scared human mind inside it, you’d be amazed how that animal can move. It's true. Guns are loud. Fun little trivia thing. When the game Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory came out, the Allied and Axis weapons were identical, but game testers thought that the Allied submachine gun, the Thompson, was a stronger weapon that the Axis submachine gun, the MP40. The only reason for this was because the sound of the weapon was louder and deeper. Mechanically, they were identical. The game designers actually had to change the sound file to make the Thompson quieter. Book 9: The Secret-Chapter 6 quote:“Okay, I think we’ve answered the question about whether that’s just an ordinary logging camp,” Marco said. So, Jake leadership tip. Focus on shared goals, not different motivations. quote:<The important thing is we have to stop them,> Tobias said. Please not an ant again. Anyway, the Animorphs plan to use both morphing and the power of bureaucracy to stop the Yeerks.
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# ? Sep 9, 2020 01:39 |
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This one feels like a needless risk, just move Ax and Tobias to a different forest and let them waste their time while focusing on more important things.
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# ? Sep 9, 2020 02:58 |
......where do you live that there are multiple forests in close proximity?
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# ? Sep 9, 2020 03:13 |
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Also, isn't that the forest that backs right up against Cassie's place?
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# ? Sep 9, 2020 03:24 |
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Even if the Yeerks lose, couldn't they just monitor the forest for blue deer with Bug Fighters? Or set it on fire during the dry season?
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# ? Sep 9, 2020 03:29 |
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HisMajestyBOB posted:Even if the Yeerks lose, couldn't they just monitor the forest for blue deer with Bug Fighters? Gender reveal parties: secretly a Yeerk plot to eliminate any potential Andalite habitats.
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# ? Sep 9, 2020 03:45 |
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disaster pastor posted:Gender reveal parties: secretly a Yeerk plot to eliminate any potential Andalite habitats. Only in this case because the Yeerks are agendered there's no colour, it's just a straight ball of fire.
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# ? Sep 9, 2020 03:54 |
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Pink for girl, blue for boy, grey for photosynthesising omnicidal neural parasite
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# ? Sep 9, 2020 04:02 |
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This does raise the amusing point of location. "I can't tell you where I live... except it's the United States, on the coast, with mountains and forest in close proximity..." edit - did they mention it was state forest? I was never really clear on what that means, but I would assume it can't be national park if they're logging. I remember when I first drove across Australia being perplexed by the huge swathes of bushland in Western Australia which weren't marked on my roadmap as anything in particular. They weren't national parks, they weren't state forest, they were just... wilderness? Which I guess is national land by default? But I wouldn't think there's much of that going around in California. freebooter fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Sep 9, 2020 |
# ? Sep 9, 2020 08:47 |
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freebooter posted:But I wouldn't think there's much of that going around in California. You'd be surprised. Huge swathes of the western US are owned by the government because there's no useful resources there and they're lovely places to live.
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# ? Sep 9, 2020 12:42 |
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Cythereal posted:You'd be surprised. Huge swathes of the western US are owned by the government because there's no useful resources there and they're lovely places to live. Extremely large amounts of land. 85% of Nevada, for instance, is Federal land, 65% of Utah, and 45% of California. Some of the land is actually pretty commercially valuable with a bunch of resources too, which means that federal leases are big business. It's become a major political issue out there and has been for a whole, The whole Ammon Bundy/Bundy Ranch standoff started, for instance, because of Bundy not paying federal grazing fees for his cattle.
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# ? Sep 9, 2020 13:13 |
Cythereal posted:You'd be surprised. Huge swathes of the western US are owned by the government because there's no useful resources there and they're lovely places to live. Imagine the Yeerks taking over the Bundy clan.
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# ? Sep 9, 2020 13:19 |
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Cythereal posted:You'd be surprised. Huge swathes of the western US are owned by the government because there's no useful resources there and they're lovely places to live. And yet I could hardly ever find anywhere to pull off the road and camp because it was always fenced off!
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# ? Sep 9, 2020 14:42 |
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Book 9:The Secret-Chapter 7quote:“Where have you been?” my dad asked me when I finally got back home later that evening. He was in the kitchen, searching the refrigerator. It's kind of interesting here. Cassie is basically an honest person, and now she's forced to be deceitful. I'd assume it is a rotten feeling. quote:“Oh … um, I was just out walking,” I said. “Why? Did you need me for something?” Anti-Marco slander. He's a great driver. He's so good, he's evolved beyond the need for roads. quote:On the way, we listened to the CD player. That was the only thing my dad liked about the new truck. He was playing some old jazz or something. I think the difference between Cassie and myself is that I feel bad for the skunk in abstract, but I'm not tearing my hair out over it. She's not good with emotional distance. Book 9:The Secret-Chapter 8 quote:We met at the mall. It was a Saturday, so it was a normal place we might be. When you live in a world where you’re surrounded by possible enemies, it’s important not to do anything too unusual. You don’t want to draw attention. So many eating rules. quote:Marco pushed out a chair for me to sit in. “Okay, if we’re done with the little side trip into the bizarre-o zone, let’s deal with business.” Because things went so well the last time they became eusocial insects.
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# ? Sep 10, 2020 00:27 |
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"Looking for a shade of green that probably didn't exist" is a good line. And Philip being from "out of town" never gets old, either!
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# ? Sep 10, 2020 05:43 |
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Always kind of bugged me that Ax likes eating cigarette butts and oil and stuff. His sense of tase and associated instincts come from the human morph, and we don’t avoid eating those things because of like, social conditioning. It’s because they are poisonous and therefore taste really bad to us. I mean, obviously the real answer is Because Jokes. Just chalk it up to another little element of weirdness with Ax’s human morph not quite working like other morphs do for storytelling sake.
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# ? Sep 10, 2020 16:20 |
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feetnotes posted:Always kind of bugged me that Ax likes eating cigarette butts and oil and stuff. His sense of tase and associated instincts come from the human morph, and we don’t avoid eating those things because of like, social conditioning. It’s because they are poisonous and therefore taste really bad to us. My take was that Ax hasn't shown much discrimination in tastes that are good from tastes that are bad. He's overwhelmed by even having the sense, so strong reactions are appealing to him, either way. Same reason he found the hot sauce absolutely fascinating. We haven't really covered what happens to food you eat in a morph, huh? Hopefully there are safeguards in place for something like this. Something something Z-space...
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# ? Sep 10, 2020 16:57 |
Bobulus posted:My take was that Ax hasn't shown much discrimination in tastes that are good from tastes that are bad. He's overwhelmed by even having the sense, so strong reactions are appealing to him, either way. Same reason he found the hot sauce absolutely fascinating. Ax is just a prototype of the Cenobites at this point.
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# ? Sep 10, 2020 19:22 |
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Sorry I'm late with this. I got busy.. Book 9: The Secret-Chapter 9 quote:We would go that night. That very night. Universal experience, really. quote:I went out to the barn. My dad was out there, making his rounds. He didn’t need my help, but he didn’t say no, either. The thing with Cassie is that she takes stuff personally, even when it might be better not to. Chapter 10 quote:“Well, what a surprise seeing you all here,” Marco said in a low whisper. So she's got her own secret agenda here. quote:<Wish I could go with you guys,> Tobias said. <But I’m not much use at night.> Little bit of an understatement there. quote:I saw Ax was morphing quickly. His tail went limp, like an empty sock. Feathers were growing to replace his fur. What could possibly go wrong?
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# ? Sep 11, 2020 01:28 |
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I don't know why but I always loved the juxtaposition of normal life, homework etc, juxtaposed against going out into the woods in the middle of the night for some crazy mission. I guess it's the appeal to a child that your apparently boring life might actually have something much more exciting below the surface. And it's weird because I was never, ever interested in superhero stories, but it's basically the same dynamic of leading a double life.
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# ? Sep 11, 2020 10:42 |
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Epicurius posted:
freebooter posted:I don't know why but I always loved the juxtaposition of normal life, homework etc, juxtaposed against going out into the woods in the middle of the night for some crazy mission. I guess it's the appeal to a child that your apparently boring life might actually have something much more exciting below the surface. And it's weird because I was never, ever interested in superhero stories, but it's basically the same dynamic of leading a double life. This is actually surprisingly relatable to how protesting in Portland has felt for the last few months. By day you might be an unassuming computer-toucher but at night you're going out to get tear-gassed by the police. You read a bedtime story to your toddler and then suit up in your respirator to go stare down the police state. The message of Animorphs as everyday folks thrust into guerrilla resistance is relevant.
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# ? Sep 11, 2020 16:40 |
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The Secret-Chapter 11quote:<Almost there,> Jake said. <Another couple of minutes.> i mean, he sort of is, isn't he? quote:<A distraction,> he continued. <We could give the Yeerks something to chase.> This is true. Termites are most closely related to the wood roach, which is, like it sounds, a kind of roach that eats wood. They evolved to be eusocial quote:The three of them were staring at me, looking a little sick. Again, not really seeing how this is much better than ants. Chapter 12 quote:I couldn’t see, but I could feel the antennae as they extruded from my forehead. Whiie this is spooky, lets talk about termite queens (and queen bees and ant queens, and so on) and eusociality. So, as far back as ancient Greece, Aristotle identified the queen bee (which he called the "king bee", because he thought it was male, because it had a stinger), as the ruler of the hive, like a human ruler, telling their subjects what to do. In the 17th century, Charles Butler, an English priest and beekeeper, in his guide to beekeeping, "The Feminine Monarchie", correctly identified the queen as female, but still thought the queen was in charge. We know now that that's not true, but since we still use the term "queen" for bees, ants and termites, there's still that idea in popular culture. In reality, of course, it's not true. The queen isn't in charge of the colony. The queen is just the fertille female. The only thing she does is lay eggs until she dies (usually of exhaustion from laying eggs). There is no real organizer in a colony like that. It's all pheremones, the entire thing, as far as we can tell. Pheremones and instincts.
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# ? Sep 12, 2020 01:59 |
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i warned you about eusocial insects bro!!! i told you dog!!!
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# ? Sep 12, 2020 02:33 |
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These teens really love ego death at the hands of eusocial insects
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# ? Sep 12, 2020 04:33 |
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Epicurius posted:In reality, of course, it's not true. The queen isn't in charge of the colony. The queen is just the fertille female. The only thing she does is lay eggs until she dies (usually of exhaustion from laying eggs). There is no real organizer in a colony like that. It's all pheremones, the entire thing, as far as we can tell. Pheremones and instincts. Yeah, for some reason pop culture makes eusocial insects into some kind of collective hive mind, adding science fiction even in ostensibly realistic settings, because that would require telepathy at a minimum. In reality, their behavior can be explained as basic rules being followed by each individual without requiring knowledge from any of the others, akin to very simple robots.
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# ? Sep 12, 2020 06:36 |
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Fuschia tude posted:Yeah, for some reason pop culture makes eusocial insects into some kind of collective hive mind, adding science fiction even in ostensibly realistic settings, because that would require telepathy at a minimum. In reality, their behavior can be explained as basic rules being followed by each individual without requiring knowledge from any of the others, akin to very simple robots. The way my high school biology teacher put it was that it's like a really good, well trained sports team that knows each other well: they can hit the field and play a perfectly good game without anyone barking orders or coming up with a plan because they all know how the game is played and how to work together.
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# ? Sep 12, 2020 13:24 |
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The Secret-Chapter 13quote:The queen! Again, the queen is as much a slave as any other termite in the hive. quote:My own body motored away on its six legs. I fell in step behind two workers. Each was carrying one of the gooey, precious eggs. I had to protect them. There might be enemies. We walked along the grotesque length of the queen. Toward her head. She must kill the queen. quote:It was like an electric jolt in my mind! Get rid of the queen! Yes. The only way. They wouldn’t be expecting that. There would be no one to stop me! Ha! quote:“Look at this document,” Marco whispered. “Preliminary permission to examine feasibility of … ” Hey. The Yeerks don’t have final permission to begin logging. There’s this commission that still has to decide. Three people. One has already said yes. Probably a Controller. One has voted definitely no. There’s one guy left. Some guy named Farrand. Yikes!” I kind of like it when the Yeerks figure out human politics. I guess I appreciate it. The Secret-Chapter 14 quote:My parents expected me to be at Rachel’s house. Her parents expected her to sleep over at my house. My house was easier to sneak into, so that’s where we went. So, here's the thing for me. And you can disagree. Obviously Cassie has the right to feel whatever she feels. So, if she feels guilty, she feels guilty. That being said, I don't think I'd feel that guilty (and I say this as somebody who puts spiders outside rather than smushing them) Termites, first of all, aren't endangered, so its not like the destruction of that one termite colony is going to wipe out the species. Additionally, termites aren't, say, chimps. We know, for instance, that chimps are emotionally complex and intelligent animals. Termites are not. They're not conscious, or even preconcious. They're not intelligent. They're barely sentient. The jury is out on whether termites can even feel pain. I think she's...more sensitive about this than I would be. quote:I love animals. I’ve been raised all my life around them. I love nature. But what did I really know about it? In other words, this, I guess. And her guilt is going to drive her to try to save the kits.
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# ? Sep 13, 2020 01:51 |
It's not that I disagree with your thoughts on her feelings, but thats a great loving horrified inner monologue
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# ? Sep 13, 2020 02:37 |
I agree with you about Cassie beating herself up way too much. I think it’s more of a manifestation of the trauma she’s just experienced in the colony. Like if she hadn’t just gone through that near-complete ego death and trying so desperately to cling to something, anything like a hard principle she can confidently say “yes, this is who I am and what’s important to me.” It feels like the....maybe not hypocrisy, but contradiction?....of her agonizing so much about a litter of four or five skunk kits dying as a result oof her indirect actions versus essentially wiping out thousands of life forms wouldn’t consume her emotionally if she hadn’t just lived through that. I don’t remember anything from this book and haven’t read ahead, but it definitely feels like she’s gonna do something really loving stupid as a result of her guilt to try to tip the cosmic scales back in balance like she did in the first Megamorphs book. pastor of muppets fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Sep 13, 2020 |
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# ? Sep 13, 2020 02:45 |
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I like how Cassie's a nature lover who has a very clear view of what nature is actually like. She doesn't think it's a bunch of cute fluffballs running around like Bambi.
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# ? Sep 13, 2020 04:45 |
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Cassie was always my least favourite Animorph because as a kid I found her ethics and moralising to be a drag. As an adult I appreciate her much more as a very important viewpoint - though, yeah, less so with this stuff. But I think it's kind of laying the groundwork for some conflicts that come down the track later on. She's basically hyper-empathetic, and with the ethical dilemmas the series eventually throws up (not that it hasn't already) that's really important. And IIRC the other Animorphs end up helping her and taking shifts in her personal mission to save the kits. Even though they don't personally give a poo poo - but they give a poo poo about her. Which is rather sweet group dynamic development. Also, in 2020, Ax just casually linking that computer up to "Marco's home computer" screams terrible infosec policy on his part.
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# ? Sep 13, 2020 11:23 |
I guess I’m the opposite, Cassie was always my favorite of the core team as a kid because I identified pretty hard with the “awkward tomboy who loves animals” characterization. I do get frustrated with her now as an adult reading it and her ethical ennui but hey, she’s a literal child soldier. Let’s face it tho if your fav is not the best cinnaboi Ax then why are you even reading this series
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# ? Sep 13, 2020 17:36 |
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The Secret-Chapter 15quote:I guess I fell asleep eventually, because I dreamed. It wasn’t a nightmare, though. It wasn’t even about the termite world. Honestly, my favorite line. quote:I felt an emotion I don’t feel very often. I felt it boiling up inside me. I glared furiously at him. At the ripping talons. At the nastily curved beak. See, Tobias is a good sport. This is more of Cassie being Cassie. It's well written, and I agree with what other people on here have said, but this still gets on my nerves a bit. Just the one chapter today. The next two chapters fit together well, and I want to pair them up.
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# ? Sep 14, 2020 01:21 |
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# ? May 24, 2024 14:21 |
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He's a good sport and a smart cookie. I really think Applegate does a good job of giving him an important role to play in every book - even if it's just character-wise, rather than contributing to missions etc - despite being inevitably sidelined to some degree because he's stuck in morph.
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# ? Sep 14, 2020 02:29 |