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full disclosure and i've already said this in bits and pieces before, but i found out about this series last year when i was in a scramble to find a new place to live and going crazier than usual from stress, which led to me obsessively reading and re-reading the chapters as i tried to decompress from apartment hunting and then around the time dolph got his throat slashed i got sufficiently fed up with how the plot was going to fanfic my own ending, which gave me something to keep my mind occupied during the early Times of Plague all of this is to say that despite this comic plummeting off a cliff completely on fire it has been an overall positive influence on my year and i intend to stick with it to the finish for that if nothing else
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Sep 10, 2020 05:38
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Oxxidation posted:full disclosure and i've already said this in bits and pieces before, but i found out about this series last year when i was in a scramble to find a new place to live and going crazier than usual from stress, which led to me obsessively reading and re-reading the chapters as i tried to decompress from apartment hunting Yeah I'd say as a whole Beastars is good, and I think all this Melon stuff will be much more tolerable on a binge read. I caught up to the series around the time Legoshi met Kyuu, and while I didn't really have any problems with the Melon stuff up to that point, reading week-to-week definitely helped shine a light on how bad each chapter was. Reading them all at once will probably help with this since you can keep up some of the momentum to power through the meh parts, but man do I miss the first half of the series. Gunna be real pissed if Melon lives through this and we need to have ANOTHER fight with him.
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Sep 10, 2020 05:50
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I was sort of over it all the way back when it started to turn into a weird shonen and it's clear now that I've stuck around entirely too long
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Sep 10, 2020 05:52
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Remember when Legosi went through training to develop a weird stand and then none of the fights in this arc mentioned it at all?
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Sep 10, 2020 06:39
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I don't especially mind it, but this arc could've also easily been a lot shorter. It'll be interesting to see how/if the anime streamlines this, once it gets around to it. They shuffled/cut some stuff for the first season after all.
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Sep 10, 2020 07:23
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CodfishCartographer posted:Yeah I'd say as a whole Beastars is good, and I think all this Melon stuff will be much more tolerable on a binge read. I caught up to the series around the time Legoshi met Kyuu, and while I didn't really have any problems with the Melon stuff up to that point, reading week-to-week definitely helped shine a light on how bad each chapter was. Reading them all at once will probably help with this since you can keep up some of the momentum to power through the meh parts, but man do I miss the first half of the series. If anything, I think it will be worst on a binge read. All of the little retcons throughout the arc, Haru being pretty much gone from this arc, the story going off on side tangents that never actually end up mattering, and so much Melon. Like Melon's dad showing up contributes nothing to story except for making things worse. Like are we suppose to think that Melon's mother wasn't abusive now? Since she didn't actually end up eating his dad. Melon better be actually dead, and we don't end up finding out next chapter that his body disappeared from the morgue or something, so he can show up and interfere with Legosi's peaceful family life with Haru.
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Sep 10, 2020 14:42
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Kanos posted:Remember when Legosi went through training to develop a weird stand and then none of the fights in this arc mentioned it at all? melon might have been the downfall of this story but at least he had a decent moment here and there, mostly in his flashbacks. kyuu was totally devoid of positive qualities and her little b-rate baki interlude was probably the final nail in the coffin
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Sep 10, 2020 15:38
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IShallRiseAgain posted:Like Melon's dad showing up contributes nothing to story except for making things worse. Like are we suppose to think that Melon's mother wasn't abusive now? Since she didn't actually end up eating his dad. I'm guessing Melon's dad's interlude was just there to partially answer Legosi's nagging worries about bringing a carnivore/herbivore hybrid into the world. Yes, Melon has some genetic stuff that makes his life worse (the whole 'food never tastes good' thing, for example), but by and large, the reasons he's all hosed up are all environmental, not genetic. He was treated lovely at school. His mom was obsessed with his father enough to be abusive to Melon. And it turns out that his dad is just an indecisive deadbeat who, if he had stayed, might have died, but maybe he wouldn't have and he would have been a positive influence on Melon.
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Sep 10, 2020 16:16
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If the problems hybrids have are nurture instead of nature that means the solution is that Herbivores and Carnivores just need to stop being assholes to eachother and to hybrids specifically.
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Sep 10, 2020 16:18
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which is an incredibly facile conclusion for the story to reach, especially when it's also insisting that all its different species are naturally inclined to be friends with one another, but okay, saccharine-and-simple is one potential route you could take for that dilemma where it falls apart with melon and his dad in particular is that a) we already got plenty of evidence that melon's upbringing was his problem after seeing what happened with his mother, and his dad being a deadbeat just belabored the point, and b) melon himself is such a loving rear end in a top hat that none of it is convincing. he's spent chapter after chapter whinging about his mother while gleefully bragging about many people he's murdered and butchered, and every time someone actually humors his angst, he immediately goes "surprise! still evil!" and tries to kill them anyway. legosi punching him in the mouth before he could start talking was one of the few cathartic moments during that whole disaster of a fight. it's the weirdest thing, the plot contorts itself into a pretzel trying to give him some kind of sympathetic backstory while making his present-day self so unrelentingly malicious that it's impossible to believe mere bad parents can excuse it
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Sep 10, 2020 16:35
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We got a cute hmm rabbet anime out of it so I guess I’m still positive on Beastars. I’m happy to treat the second plot in this manga like season 9 of scrubs. We don’t talk about it, barely acknowledge its existence, and just remember the good stuff that came before it.
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Sep 10, 2020 16:41
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Man it just dawned on me that Gosha's life is just hell.
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Sep 10, 2020 16:55
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Rest in Peace The Shishigumi, got arrested so that Louis could show up and do Literally Nothing.  Double big laughs at Kyuu jamming her way back into the story and also just vanishing harder than San all of a sudden.
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Sep 10, 2020 16:56
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One good thing about the Melon arc is that we got Legosi's mom out of it And then it kept going for way too long after that But it's over now ...hopefully
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Sep 10, 2020 17:02
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There are SO MANY little plot elements that were brought into this arc that just went absolutely nowhere. It feels incredibly sloppy. I wonder if you just did nothing else but cut out all the extraneous poo poo would the pacign problems and everythign else solve themselves. Also, bring back Haru already!
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Sep 10, 2020 17:16
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Drop the Kyuu stuff, condense some of the action and training stuff a bit. Could probably shave about 10 chapters worth of stuff and get a stronger arc out of it.
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Sep 10, 2020 17:50
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I guess it is fair that Yafya got taken out from his blindspot. Hopefully he isn't dead though so Legoshi can get his record cleared for catching Melon.
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Sep 10, 2020 18:04
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kyuu, deshico, hell just axe melon's "university professor" gig entirely and maybe have haru and legosi interact in a context besides imminent mortal peril none of this would fix the deeper problems, though, mainly melon's character (which sucks, so bad) and the fact that paru is really bad at drawing action scenes. even back during the fight with riz, all the impact came in those detailed still shots (riz clawing the ceiling, him and legosi roaring at each other in the showers) rather than the choreography itself, and it's been much worse during the turf war both because of the declining quality of the art and the way legosi refuses to ever throw a loving punch. his entire battle with melon consisted of taking hits while melon teleported around from panel to panel to choke him out. how many times did he suddenly wriggle out of legosi's grip during this scuffle when the panel cut away from him? it had to be at least three legosi's also become really frustrating during this arc and that's what hurts the most, because he was a great protagonist in the first half. but now he constantly neglects the people who care about him so he can obsessively pursue a guy who wants him to gently caress off and die, in either order, and gets into fights that have him surviving on plot armor and cartoon logic until his opponent becomes too confused/uncomfortable to hurt him anymore. he's a selfish, bumbling pinhead that just does things arbitrarily while louis runs around trying to clean up after him, and it's hard to imagine him taking care of a potted plant, let alone becoming an example for society to follow
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Sep 10, 2020 18:12
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I don't really remember Legoshi actually, uh, fighting Melon. How did he beat Melon, again? I don't actually even remember why Legoshi wants to fight him so badly or why Haru said Melon could eat her I do remember the gigantic whale! Though I'm not sure Paru does
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Sep 10, 2020 19:21
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Honestly everything sorta feels like a roughdraft to me lately? Just a bunch of ideas thrown down before you actually go and start to separate out what works and what doesn't. Somebody needs an editor.
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Sep 10, 2020 19:38
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Poor Melon, he bit a horse and died.
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Sep 11, 2020 00:07
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Literally Kermit posted:Poor Melon, he bit a horse and died. I laughed at this very hard
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Sep 11, 2020 00:26
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Literally Kermit posted:Poor Melon, he bit a horse and died.
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Sep 11, 2020 03:43
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CodfishCartographer posted:I don't really remember Legoshi actually, uh, fighting Melon. How did he beat Melon, again? Legoshi wants to fight Melon because Yafya told him that if he helped catch Melon, Yafya would pull strings to get Legosi's criminal record from eating Louis's leg cleared. As long as he has that record, he's not allowed to legally marry Haru, because he's labeled as a dangerous carnivore who can't be trusted around herbivores long term under the law. However, this discussion happened so loving long ago at this point and Haru has been such a non-entity for this entire arc that it's easy to forget that there was actually a motivation for Legoshi here besides vigilantism. Haru said Melon could eat her because ?who the gently caress knows? I don't think there was a clear idea how to integrate Haru into this arc at all, which is why she's basically disappeared despite being one of the primary characters this whole shebang is supposed to hang on.
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Sep 11, 2020 07:32
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Kanos posted:Haru said Melon could eat her because ?who the gently caress knows? I don't think there was a clear idea how to integrate Haru into this arc at all, which is why she's basically disappeared despite being one of the primary characters this whole shebang is supposed to hang on. she pretty much bumbled her way into it after she was stoked to learn that hybrids as physically healthy as melon can exist (conversation between them went something like "is there anything i can do for you?" "be my birthday dinner" "uhhhhhh ok lol?") and tried to rationalize it after the fact by saying that legosi's adulation of her was too much pressure to deal with and it would be better to fall back into the natural herbivore prey instinct. louis shouted the stupid out of her afterwards but the damage was done none of that changes your point, though - this arc couldn't properly integrate haru, because nobody in this arc is allowed to interact unless it has something to do with melon. everyone else either gets unpersoned (gouhin hasn't been seen outside of flashbacks in almost a year) or killed off (oguma got snuffed out like a soap-opera actor asking for a pay raise)
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Sep 11, 2020 13:02
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I hope author doesn't try and drag this plot out for another 20 episodes now that RIP
some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Sep 11, 2020 |
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Sep 11, 2020 14:25
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Oxxidation posted:she pretty much bumbled her way into it after she was stoked to learn that hybrids as physically healthy as melon can exist (conversation between them went something like "is there anything i can do for you?" "be my birthday dinner" "uhhhhhh ok lol?") and tried to rationalize it after the fact by saying that legosi's adulation of her was too much pressure to deal with and it would be better to fall back into the natural herbivore prey instinct. louis shouted the stupid out of her afterwards but the damage was done It's super weird that it's been like this, honestly. The whole arc with Riz was extremely similar in concept(Legoshi has to investigate the wrongdoings of and then prepare to fight with a ridiculously dangerous animal who wants to kill him) except Riz didn't consume the entire manga and crowd out all other worldbuilding and character interactions. I really wonder what happened.
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Sep 11, 2020 14:32
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Literally Kermit posted:Poor Melon, he bit a horse and died.  ...first thing that came to mind
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Sep 11, 2020 19:57
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I'm optimistic that the story can recover. I really like this panel.
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Sep 12, 2020 04:38
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I would be happy if it went back to Haru and Legoshi's relationship.
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Sep 12, 2020 04:41
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Kanos posted:It's super weird that it's been like this, honestly. The whole arc with Riz was extremely similar in concept(Legoshi has to investigate the wrongdoings of and then prepare to fight with a ridiculously dangerous animal who wants to kill him) except Riz didn't consume the entire manga and crowd out all other worldbuilding and character interactions. I really wonder what happened. What happened is exactly what somebody on the other page said. Paru is a young writer who fell victim to the old impulse that you gotta keep raising the stakes, when no...you really don’t gotta. The slice of life relationship stuff was the real strength of this story. Not the shonen nonsense.
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Sep 12, 2020 09:05
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The constant weekly schedule probably doesn't help in terms of being able to stop and plan things out more carefully.
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Sep 12, 2020 09:33
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Captain Oblivious posted:What happened is exactly what somebody on the other page said. Paru is a young writer who fell victim to the old impulse that you gotta keep raising the stakes, when no...you really don’t gotta. The slice of life relationship stuff was the real strength of this story. Not the shonen nonsense. most long-running series have gradually heightening stakes, and even if paru doesn't believe that i'm pretty sure her editors would. the problem is that melon wasn't a strong enough character to handle the amount of import and threat she was piling onto him, and while this is all just blue-skying on my part i get a really strong "creator's darling" vibe from the guy. the story very badly wants us to think he's dangerous and intelligent and tragic and charismatic when he mostly comes off as equal parts ineffectual and obnoxious he might have worked as an intermediary villain on the way to the whole city-consuming threat we have now, but the story just refused to let him go
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Sep 12, 2020 14:42
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The stakes have escalated way too fast. We went from Riz covering up a single murder to this city-wide threat, while the larger plot stuff like the whale thing are still trying to catch up. And honestly, it doesn't ever feel like Melon is working to earn his threat level. It's not like he engaged in some grand, carefully planned scheme to take over the city. He just randomly murders people in plain sight, and apparently all the carnivores think that's super awesome for some reason. Louis busted his rear end to make it in the city's criminal underworld, and then Melon just rises straight to the top without even trying.
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Sep 12, 2020 17:34
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Just had a thought that this was much more interesting when you had the Cherryton students around. Legosi getting booted for predation kind of bombed because I don’t think the characters that came after really had much chemistry or were even particularly interesting or memorable IMO. This was way more fun when it was about a bumbling lanky wolf at school who solves crime while chasing the rabbet. Once it turned ultra gritty life in the slums it kind of sucked the fun out of it. But maybe I’m misremembering what happened since he got booted. Maybe there was some legit fun stuff and I just don’t see it for all the complaining I’ve been doing. Once this wraps up I might try a re-read — maybe it’s more palatable in one go if you just burn through it without trying to anticipate what eye-rollingly stupid thing happens next?
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Sep 13, 2020 17:26
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Martytoof posted:But maybe I’m misremembering what happened since he got booted. Maybe there was some legit fun stuff and I just don’t see it for all the complaining I’ve been doing. Once this wraps up I might try a re-read — maybe it’s more palatable in one go if you just burn through it without trying to anticipate what eye-rollingly stupid thing happens next? I've done that for the post-chapter 100 stuff and it reads a lot better since you don't have a week to think "this is stupid" since you can zoom past it and keep the story going After that, it's really up to how much you care about the characters, since if you only like a few of them and they don't show up for 50 chapters at a time, you're going to have a rough go at it
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Sep 13, 2020 17:34
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Martytoof posted:Just had a thought that this was much more interesting when you had the Cherryton students around. Legosi getting booted for predation kind of bombed because I don’t think the characters that came after really had much chemistry or were even particularly interesting or memorable IMO. when he was bumble-assing his way through dropout life you had a bunch of really nice moments like his meetings with sebun and gosha, his encounter with louis in the hospital, zaguan, the rooftop rice cake cookout, and him and his friends from 701 going out to B-Strike - which, coincidentally, was the very last strip before Melon appeared. it's about 25 chapters of gold, and then you get the rare bright spot (mostly whenever haru shows up) as melon devours the story whole
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Sep 13, 2020 17:40
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I miss Legoshi's apartment buddies...
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Sep 13, 2020 18:46
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Yeah the first half was great cus it was just Legoshi trying to figure out how to be a functioning person. How to deal with relationships, then how to deal with living alone. We easily could have had tons more "arcs" like this. Legoshi learning how to actually be a boyfriend. Legoshi learning how to get and hold a job. Legoshi learning how to live with Haru. Could even pull a Punpun and have some time-skips after major plot points and just go through Legoshi living life - show him learning to deal with babies, then children, then teens, then living alone with Haru after they move out. Sprinkle in career arcs with him and Haru, maybe instead of having the sheep girl that was harassed for being a herbivore, have that arc with Haru. All the while have a focus on how the animal society changes over time, how carnivore and herbivore relations evolve, and the views on mixed children. Would definitely wind up being an entirely different manga, but would probably keep up with the original's tone and what made it so popular.
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Sep 14, 2020 01:35
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I don't even think having to deal with Melon is a bad thing for the manga in and of itself; Melon's backstory and the monster he is are extremely relevant to the core theme of the manga from the getgo, which is "how carnivores and herbivores interact in society is kind of hosed up". The problem is that Melon's whole approach to being a villain needed to be different. I'd have liked to see a setting where Melon utilized his dual nature to blend into society in unexpected ways, perhaps deliberately intending to destabilize the city and increase tensions between herbivores and carnivores. Since he can pass as a herbivore easily if he conceals his teeth, he could be a pretty effective murderer given the prejudices of society - kill some herbivores, make it look like predation, and vanish into the crowd of herbivores. Legoshi having to do something like the Riz investigation on a much larger and more complicated scale would have let the manga focus on the things that make it so strong - character interactions and the exploration of the setting's society. It would have also have given characters like Haru and Louis more to do. Maybe Legoshi thinks Melon might be hiding in a herbivores-only gathering that he can't go to, so he asks Louis for help. Maybe Melon tries to set Legoshi up with a predation framejob and Haru has to provide an alibi and defend him. I'm not a writer, I'm just spitballing here. The problem, imo, isn't Melon himself or even needing to defeat Melon, it's that the way it was done pulled the manga away from its incredible strengths as a character piece instead of leaning into them.
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Sep 14, 2020 02:36
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