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It turns out that the problem was already solved by Porsche having brought my manufacture forward by a week, so the spec is locked. The black is awesome anyway. Delivery is a month away, can't wait.
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Sep 15, 2020 20:54
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I think 
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Sep 16, 2020 00:44
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I'm back and I found a significantly-less-terrible 996 even closer to me. The only issue with this one was the brake wear sensor light was on, although the rotors and pads looked good. The owner claimed the previous person to come test drive the car did an "emergency stop" and the light has been on since. I was hesitant to take the car over ~25mph for this reason and the pedal did feel soft with some waviness in it, so not great. I've never driven a 996 before though so I don't know how it should have felt. It looked to me like the front pads were actually contacting the rotors when the brakes were not being applied. Any thoughts on what this could be? Googling says it just needs a new sensor most likely, could that happen from one hard stop? The car was also sitting for a year before she put it up for sale and has a new battery as a result. She said it was driven/started periodically but this seems dubious. Anything to look out of there? Going to set about scheduling a PPI tomorrow morning. Are Porsche dealers any good for those? Pics: https://imgur.com/a/qfvJsZv
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Sep 16, 2020 00:52
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willroc7 posted:I'm back and I found a significantly-less-terrible 996 even closer to me. The only issue with this one was the brake wear sensor light was on, although the rotors and pads looked good. The owner claimed the previous person to come test drive the car did an "emergency stop" and the light has been on since. I was hesitant to take the car over ~25mph for this reason and the pedal did feel soft with some waviness in it, so not great. I've never driven a 996 before though so I don't know how it should have felt. It looked to me like the front pads were actually contacting the rotors when the brakes were not being applied. Any thoughts on what this could be? Googling says it just needs a new sensor most likely, could that happen from one hard stop? The car was also sitting for a year before she put it up for sale and has a new battery as a result. She said it was driven/started periodically but this seems dubious. Anything to look out of there? Going to set about scheduling a PPI tomorrow morning. Are Porsche dealers any good for those? It needs a brake job because there are pad deposits on the rotors (i.e. they are "warped") at best. The sensor is a common issue, no it's not from a hard stop. And you have no idea if the I/Ms will set (i.e. check engine light will come on) once the drive cycle is done yet. It likely needs to be driven before you can even get a proper PPI on it. Absolutely do not buy it without a proper PPI. There are a lot of things you can find just in the ECU with the right software on a 996. But if it's been sitting dead most of that may be cleared out and it just needs drive time.
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Sep 16, 2020 01:48
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Motronic posted:It needs a brake job because there are pad deposits on the rotors (i.e. they are "warped") at best. The sensor is a common issue, no it's not from a hard stop. And you have no idea if the I/Ms will set (i.e. check engine light will come on) once the drive cycle is done yet. It likely needs to be driven before you can even get a proper PPI on it. Absolutely do not buy it without a proper PPI. There are a lot of things you can find just in the ECU with the right software on a 996. But if it's been sitting dead most of that may be cleared out and it just needs drive time. Thanks for the reply. How far does it need to be driven to complete a cycle? Will a vag com Vcds for Audi/vw tell me anything? Edit: seller now saying the car was parked "on and off" for three years, not just one. Outdoors under a cover and not in a garage, in northeast Ohio. Definitely feeling my excitement on this one start to drain... willroc7 fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Sep 16, 2020 |
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Sep 16, 2020 01:52
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willroc7 posted:Thanks for the reply. How far does it need to be driven to complete a cycle? Will a vag com Vcds for Audi/vw tell me anything? It's not about "how far" it's about an OBD2 drive cycle. The basic one often quoted for a 996 is: Start engine, idle cold for approx. 2 min, 10 secs. Accelerate to 20-30 MPH, Maintain steady speed for approx 3 min, 15 secs. Accelerate to 40-60 MPH, Maintain steady speed for approx 15 mins. Decelerate and come to a stop. Idle in gear* for approx 5 mins. (I believe little of this, have no idea why times are in seconds......that doesn't even matter) This will not necessarily get all of them. It likely won't get evap, which typically doesn't run at all under any conditions unless you are between 1/2 and 3/4 tank of fuel. On some things. Not on others. It's all typically a poo poo show, which is why the car just needs to be driven for a few days on a mix of roads/speeds and the monitors should set. If you're trying to get this done in a hurry you're likely sitting there driving with a OBD2 thing (computer, dongle, laptop cable) hooked up and checking regularly which one of the monitors you just got set and figuring out what you need to do to get the others to set. Some of them simply won't set unless you can meet specific conditions at specific times. Like SAI need to be dead cold and other I/Ms seem to need to be set first. This isn't a problem for emissions in a lot of states, where you are allowed to have 1 or 2 unset (which typically comes down to evap and/or SAI). From a PPI perspective you want to know that ALL of them will come to ready. Whenever I see a used car for sale with any I/M monitors unset, no matter the excuse, I'm immediately very suspicious. Motronic fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Sep 16, 2020 |
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Sep 16, 2020 03:00
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How can you tell the I/M monitors are unset? What exactly should I tell the shop performing the PPI? Is this pretty much guaranteed to be a gamble at this point?
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Sep 16, 2020 03:22
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willroc7 posted:How can you tell the I/M monitors are unset? What exactly should I tell the shop performing the PPI? Is this pretty much guaranteed to be a gamble at this point? Even a non-porsche shop of the least competence will know this. It's basic OBD2 data that is generic to absolutely any vehicle past 1996.
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Sep 16, 2020 03:25
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But will the shop know how to reset all of these thing with the aforementioned procedure?
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Sep 16, 2020 03:41
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willroc7 posted:But will the shop know how to reset all of these thing with the aforementioned procedure? Resetting (or having the battery out/dead long enough) is the problem. If you do those things these monitors are shown as "incomplete". The only way to "set" them is to drive it through the right conditions to set them. This is basic emissions on any OBD2 vehicle. If one of them can't be set in the alloted time/drive conditions the check engine light comes (back) on. Which is why shitbags reset the codes.......the MIL (check engine light) stays of until one or more of the monitors fail enough times.
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Sep 16, 2020 05:46
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If you have to worry about any of this crap, I would just not buy it. That drat thing has cobwebs on calipers - it’s been sitting for awhile for sure. Just hold out and get something with good service records that was stored in a garage.
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Sep 16, 2020 13:28
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Voltage posted:If you have to worry about any of this crap, I would just not buy it. That drat thing has cobwebs on calipers - it’s been sitting for awhile for sure. Yeah I’m pretty close to walking at this point but the proximity, price, and cosmetic condition are making me want to at least get it inspected. If you didn’t see my edit, it has come out now that it’s been sitting on and off outside under a cover for 3 years. Current agreed upon price is $13,500. I’ll post a couple interior pics from the ad later, it’s metropol blue and very clean. Probably the cleanest I’ve seen on a 996 under 20k.
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Sep 16, 2020 13:39
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willroc7 posted:I'm back and I found a significantly-less-terrible 996 even closer to me. The only issue with this one was the brake wear sensor light was on, although the rotors and pads looked good. The owner claimed the previous person to come test drive the car did an "emergency stop" and the light has been on since. I was hesitant to take the car over ~25mph for this reason and the pedal did feel soft with some waviness in it, so not great. I've never driven a 996 before though so I don't know how it should have felt. It looked to me like the front pads were actually contacting the rotors when the brakes were not being applied. Any thoughts on what this could be? Googling says it just needs a new sensor most likely, could that happen from one hard stop? The car was also sitting for a year before she put it up for sale and has a new battery as a result. She said it was driven/started periodically but this seems dubious. Anything to look out of there? Going to set about scheduling a PPI tomorrow morning. Are Porsche dealers any good for those? It's a pitty, has a couple of nice options like Xenons and LSD. I see a lot of corrosion on the steel bolts on the underside which make me wonder. I guess if it's $13,500 and it's super clean you can take the risk, go for it. As long as the motor doesn't grenade. e: About the history and dead battery, how long does the battery have to be dead before that's an issue? I have unhooked mine from the car in the winter.
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Sep 16, 2020 14:38
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The only rust I could find on the body was a very small amount of bubbling just starting around the driver's door latch. Being parked outside that long in a wintry climate has me definitely worried, though. I found an enthusiast shop close to the seller that can check it out. I'm assuming the car has 3+ year old oil and fluids in it at this point. Obviously I would change them immediately if I purchased the car, but is driving the car enough to reset the readiness on fluids that old going to damage the engine? Is it already likely damaged? I'm still thinking I go ahead with the PPI but feeling pretty down about the prospect of buying it presesntly. Interior pics as promised: 
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Sep 16, 2020 15:21
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willroc7 posted:I'm assuming the car has 3+ year old oil and fluids in it at this point. Obviously I would change them immediately if I purchased the car, but is driving the car enough to reset the readiness on fluids that old going to damage the engine? Yes? No? Maybe? Do you have the kind of money they are asking for to just take a risk and see how it comes out? Because they're obviously trying to dump this car with no effort. I'd tell them 8 grand or I'm out. Or they get the thing serviced, detailed and PPId at the shop of my choice and we'r back to $13k if it's not a dumpster fire.
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Sep 16, 2020 16:29
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Motronic posted:Do you have the kind of money they are asking for to just take a risk and see how it comes out? No. I will say that cosmetically it is very clean, doesn't need a detail. Looks like I may be able to get a PPI tomorrow. We'll see how it shakes out. Despite all the red flags I had a relatively good gut feeling about it.
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Sep 16, 2020 16:37
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willroc7 posted:No. Then you don't have used Porsche money period my friend. You most definitely do not have cheap used Porsche money.
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Sep 16, 2020 18:29
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blah blah no such thing as a cheap porsche
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Sep 16, 2020 18:32
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willroc7 posted:The only rust I could find on the body was a very small amount of bubbling just starting around the driver's door latch. Being parked outside that long in a wintry climate has me definitely worried, though. I found an enthusiast shop close to the seller that can check it out. I'm assuming the car has 3+ year old oil and fluids in it at this point. Obviously I would change them immediately if I purchased the car, but is driving the car enough to reset the readiness on fluids that old going to damage the engine? Is it already likely damaged? I'm still thinking I go ahead with the PPI but feeling pretty down about the prospect of buying it presesntly. Interior pics as promised: I dunno man.. and I say this as someone that isn't as die hard on PPIs for disposable money Porsches as others, but I'd be leery with it. The more I look at it, the more I'm concerned too. Tough to see from the angle but the tailpipes look low as well. Probably in the need for new motor mounts. Not big, but certainly further indication that the car was not maintained. I guess you could always part it out if you had to, but it's really not great. Be careful. What's the story with the Aero spoiler? If I had to guess the original stopped functioning and they just slapped it on as a cheap fix. e: Motronic posted:Then you don't have used Porsche money period my friend. You most definitely do not have cheap used Porsche money. You don't buy a car like this without being able to do it and not ruin yourself financially. If you can't, don't do it. This is not a 90s Vette. They are reliable enough, probably better than most other 90s vehicles, but only if maintained. If something serious goes sideways especially mechanically you are looking at big bucks... and worse if you can't do it yourself. slidebite fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Sep 16, 2020 |
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Sep 16, 2020 19:10
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I know you might really want a Porsche, but if you don't have fuckoff disposable income and another DD, don't buy a 4 generation old 911, especially one that you aren't absolutely certain of the service history. If you really want a Porsche on a "budget", snag a Macan lease - a lot of dealers are doing 0 down on them right now and only around $650 a month. It will cost a lot less in the long run than just about any used 911, cheap initial buy-in or not. I experienced great financial pains many years ago when I bought a "cheap" E46 which, all said and done was more expensive than a then-new 335i e92.
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Sep 16, 2020 19:34
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I definitely don't want a Macan or a lease. Maybe I'll fix this up and flip it on bringatrailer. 996's are going up in value and first years tend to have some value. heheheh
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Sep 16, 2020 19:41
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Solid plan Literally the worst plan
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Sep 16, 2020 19:46
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slidebite posted:Solid plan I can't see spoilers on mobile. Nothing important in there, surely?
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Sep 16, 2020 19:56
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The worst plan. Seriously, there are a lot of concerns with that car. The look of the underside is not comforting (prepare to need to replace everything rubber/bushing in it), rust bubbles visible, even if small, of the body, weirdo Aero spoiler, not maintained.... but hey, at least the interior is clean. e: Googled your vin, found it for sale on some classy used car website @ 92K miles. https://www.switchcars.com/cars-for-sale/24/Porsche-911-1999
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Sep 16, 2020 20:25
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Good find. That looks like where the current owner got it. So it was at least maintained... some time ago.
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Sep 16, 2020 20:37
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willroc7 posted:I can't see spoilers on mobile. Nothing important in there, surely? The spoilers (at least on the 996 Turbo) are a common failure point, unfortunately. 
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Sep 16, 2020 20:46
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FWIW the owner claims to have the original spoiler and it's in "perfect" condition. edit: PPI scheduled for tomorrow, come what may.
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Sep 16, 2020 20:47
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I totally get the appeal of the 911 but IMO a more reasonable way to get an actually cheap Porsche would be a Boxster/Cayman. For 15k you might be able to find something that's not a complete piece of poo poo. I have to say I'm also reconsidering the "maybe one day" approach because "one day" might never come what with the pandemics, global warmings, riots, and what not. It even looks like I can't afford not to get a Porsche? It seems for about ~25k eurobucks I can get a 987.2 like this, or 987 S like this with reasonable mileage. Looking back, Boxsters seem to bottom out at around 10k after 10 more years. That's like 1.5k/year, less than the cheapest econobox to lease. Obviosuly service/consumables would be higher but w/e. I know cars aren't investments but it's earier to justify spending a lot of cash when you know you're not just setting money on fire.   Ideally it'd be a 987.2 S but this combination seems to be significantly more expenisve, as in +10k if I want it in manual. If it weren't for the IMS and cylinder bore damage issues I wouldn't hesitate to go for a slightly older but more powerful model but it's not like you can get a new engine for $500 like for a Miata*. I'm also conflicted on the Cayman vs Boxster. I daily an NB so I'm totally sold on the roadster lifestyle, but I just like the Cayman waay better. I guess I'd have to keep the miata, while I wouldn't have the excuse with the Boxster. Has anyone lived with both? What's the day to day experience? Is there any significant work coming up at these kinds of ages/mileages? *Speaking of which, this is in the ND territory which I suspect would be about 100% less headaches and  potential so hmmm.
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Sep 16, 2020 21:03
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I’ve considered boxsters briefly but I really want something I can cram my two small children into the back of. 
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Sep 16, 2020 21:18
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mobby_6kl posted:I totally get the appeal of the 911 but IMO a more reasonable way to get an actually cheap Porsche would be a Boxster/Cayman. For 15k you might be able to find something that's not a complete piece of poo poo. I've had a 981 Cayman S as well as a 987 Spyder. 981: +Interior much better than the 987 +Interior noise isn't terrible if you're just trying to cruise on the highway +Steering is awesome (but not as good as the 987) +An insane amount of space for luggage/storage -Not a convertible +Looks awesome 987: +/-A convertible +/-Interior is fine +Steering is possibly the best I have/will ever experience +Bucket seats look cool -Bucket seats are a PITA to live with -Noisy Top -Decent space, but not as much as the Cayman due to the roof +Looks awesome
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Sep 16, 2020 21:22
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willroc7 posted:I’ve considered boxsters briefly but I really want something I can cram my two small children into the back of. The lack of a back seat is a feature not a bug. Tell those kids to 
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Sep 16, 2020 22:30
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Residency Evil posted:I've had a 981 Cayman S as well as a 987 Spyder. H110Hawk posted:The lack of a back seat is a feature not a bug. Tell those kids to Not just kids. When I drove a wagon, I always had to help friends move or be the designated driver. Now I don't have any friends 
mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Sep 16, 2020 |
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Sep 16, 2020 22:41
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mobby_6kl posted:Thanks! Since this is also base/S, did you feel the extra power made a significant difference? I'm not sure, I've never driven a base car unfortunately. I've heard the base engine is also fantastic btw. FWIW, I bought another coupe because I am a sad man who hates fun.
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Sep 16, 2020 22:59
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Residency Evil posted:I'm not sure, I've never driven a base car unfortunately. I've heard the base engine is also fantastic btw. Base vs S on either of those gens is noticeable, but not to someone who's driven neither. Both engines are great. You won't miss the S if you've never driven the S. If you have, the base is going to feel down on power, but it's still a hell of a lot of fun. Potentially more since you can wind it out more before reaching felony speeds.
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Sep 16, 2020 23:29
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I have a base 986 and yeah it is plenty fast enough for the roads. We always want more power but as I found with my Scat Pack Challenger it isn't much fun when you can't use it ever.
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Sep 16, 2020 23:32
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Motronic posted:Base vs S on either of those gens is noticeable, but not to someone who's driven neither. Both engines are great. You won't miss the S if you've never driven the S. If you have, the base is going to feel down on power, but it's still a hell of a lot of fun. Potentially more since you can wind it out more before reaching felony speeds. BigPaddy posted:I have a base 986 and yeah it is plenty fast enough for the roads. We always want more power but as I found with my Scat Pack Challenger it isn't much fun when you can't use it ever. I take that back: I spent an afternoon driving a base 987.1 through Wisconsin back roads with my wife a few years back and had a blast. There's definitely truth to the slow car fast maxim.
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Sep 16, 2020 23:52
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willroc7 posted:I’ve considered boxsters briefly but I really want something I can cram my two small children into the back of. Same reason I went 911. Get it checked by Steinel's and if it passes there then go nuts but otherwise it's p scary. Rust really shouldn't happen already.
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Sep 17, 2020 00:21
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Jymmybob posted:Same reason I went 911. How’s that turbo treating you? She’s too far (30 mins or so) to want to take it to Steinel’s. I asked. She did say it was serviced by them before she bought it. Maybe I’ll give them a call tomorrow. PPI is at Nordkuste, ever heard of them?
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Sep 17, 2020 00:26
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Jymmybob posted:Rust really shouldn't happen already. No, it shouldn't. This was obviously parked on dirt/grass/whatever and will be a miserable pain in the rear end to work on.
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Sep 17, 2020 00:53
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I won’t even buy a lovely gm car that was parked in the grass. Not worth it. You can’t even change the drat fuel filters
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Sep 17, 2020 01:29
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