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Vitamin P posted:It's wierd that England is considered the landlord lovers when it's not even the worst in the UK. Half of England is owned by ~1% of it's population, disgusting for sure, but half of Scotland is owned by 0.009% of it's population but that never really comes up it's odd. yeah but its mostly bits nobody wants.
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Sep 15, 2020 22:49
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It's because nobody really lives in those parts. People are opposed to housing landlordism, as in rent collection from peoples homes, more than any other form.
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Sep 15, 2020 22:50
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Vitamin P posted:The alt-lite, and everyone else too tbh, does a thing where they take any outrider position or specific bad judgement from literally anyone that can be plausibly called liberal/left-wing/SJW/voted for Clinton and present that dumb poo poo as representing everyone in that so-broad-it's-meaningless grouping. And then if some other outrider statement contradicts it then aha! it's all incoherent! Douglas Murrays latest book is literally just doing that it's loving baffling that's it taken seriously it's absolute fake intellectualism. I'm not supporting the right? I think it's a ridiculous decision on the part of the uni. I'm mostly just real mad at the kind of woke liberal ultras who think this is a progressive thing to get indignant about, and there would be some comfort knowing that actually it's just the right being shitlords as usual. It's a far more depressing thought that the people doing it might genuinely think they're taking a principled left wing stand, not only because it hands the reactionaries ammunition but also because it shows quite how loving useless and hollowed out by neoliberalism US radicalism has become.
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Sep 15, 2020 22:51
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justcola posted:A friend of mine is against burqa's because he finds them oppressive. I am for them because people should be able to wear what they want, as what we wear stems from culture. Although on a deeper level I am against all traditions and identities and people should be able to be whatever they want.  quote:This also clearly demonstrates the limitations of the standard liberal attitude toward Muslim women wearing the veil: they can do it if it is their free choice, not an option imposed on them by their husbands or family. The moment women wear the veil as a result of their free individual choice (say, in order to express their own spirituality), however, the meaning of wearing the veil changes completely: it is no longer a sign of their belonging to the Muslim community, but an expression of their idiosyncratic individuality; the difference is the same as the one between a Chinese farmer eating Chinese food because his village has done so since time immemorial, and a citizen of a Western megalopolis deciding to go and eat at a local Chinese restaurant. The lesson of all this is that a choice is always a meta-choice, a choice of the modality of the choice itself: only the woman who does not choose to wear the veil is really making a choice. This is why, in our secular societies of choice, people who maintain a substantial religious belonging are in a subordinate position: even if they are allowed to practice their belief, this belief is "tolerated" as their idiosyncratic personal choice/ opinion; the moment they present it publicly as what it is for them (a matter of substantial belonging), they are accused of "fundamentalism." This means that the "subject of free choice" (in the Western "tolerant" multicultural sense) can emerge only as the result of an extremely violent process of being torn out of one's particular life-world, being cut off from one's roots. Of course, you can short circuit Žižek at his own game by saying that it's permissible to tolerate Muslim women wearing the burqa because of Islam while still opposing domestic and community violence, but then the "what is a violence" counter just moves up to the next notch of the game you don't win because it all is within human society. Or you can say that his analogy of Chinese farmers eating Chinese food because his village has done so since time immemorial and a citizen of a Western megalopolis deciding to go and eat at a local Chinese restaurant is loving bollocks because they're not remotely the same kind of Chinese food but then he says "but they're also not the same kind of veil" and eats hotdog at you. Checkmate, Western libs. Vitamin P posted:It's wierd that England is considered the landlord lovers when it's not even the worst in the UK. Half of England is owned by ~1% of it's population, disgusting for sure, but half of Scotland is owned by 0.009% of it's population but that never really comes up it's odd.
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Sep 15, 2020 22:56
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https://twitter.com/peston/status/1305940592279670784?s=21 Using Peston to trial policy announcements again. But what a loving stupid idea, it was a right gently caress on for me to get to see my GP last month despite severe hypertension, and would have probably not been possible with every person with symptoms taking a spot in front of me.
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Sep 15, 2020 22:56
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justcola posted:A friend of mine is against burqa's because he finds them oppressive. I am for them because people should be able to wear what they want, as what we wear stems from culture. Although on a deeper level I am against all traditions and identities and people should be able to be whatever they want. I don't know any book. But I do have Muslim female friends from both majority muslim countries and 'Western' countries. So first off, are you talking about burqa such as Afghanistan where there is a veil over the eyes too, or 'niqab' where the eyes are not covered? (Sorry for asking if you do know the difference, many do not. When I first went to live in Egypt, my dear sister-in-law started rowing with me saying she didn't want her daughter to grow up in a burqa..she meant niqab .. erm... right oh. She's a UKIPer.) Some of them are in countries where they are legally obligated to wear burqa whether they want to or not. Some have husbands who demand it. Others have husbands who say it's their choice, between them and Allah. I'll talk about niqab and hijab a bit from personal knowledge: On of the most devout muslim women I know (Egyptian) will not wear burqa, niqab or hijab (headscarf) because she does not believe the quran requires it and that the 'modesty' requirement is more about behaviour than clothes. Another believes that the modesty requirement requires her to wear head covering and also not show her shape but that abaya (black robe) is not necessary (so for example long shirt covering her bum over jeans does the job). One Egyptian woman I know who spent 15 years living in Saudi Arabia with her husband and young family went out without her face edit There is an assumption amongst many that wearing burqa is always oppressive. It isn't. Sometimes it is. Some women feel a lot happier wearing it because that is what they understand from their Islam, others more from the perspective that they don't get judged on their appearance, either because in some cases they are very pretty or sometimes because they have a physical deformity (as judged in the world). The only place in Egypt where I know of where almost all women routinely wearing burqa is Siwa and that is definitely a cultural requirement. Though I did see some women in niqab and even a few in just hijab when I was there. What you really want to find out more about if you are seriously interested in delving deeper is the concept of Awra (or Awrah) - the 'intimate' parts of people and that, in some interpretations, includes the woman's voice. Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Sep 16, 2020 |
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Sep 15, 2020 22:58
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Vitamin P posted:It's wierd that England is considered the landlord lovers when it's not even the worst in the UK. Half of England is owned by ~1% of it's population, disgusting for sure, but half of Scotland is owned by 0.009% of it's population but that never really comes up it's odd. it does come up a fair amount in scotpol lefty circles, at least (e.g. land reform is basically green MSP Andy Wightman's whole deal, he's pretty much written The Book on the subject), though the SNP are of course reluctant to do anything that actually significantly changes anything, as per usual edit: Private Speech posted:It's because nobody really lives in those parts. People are opposed to housing landlordism, as in rent collection from peoples homes, more than any other form. NotJustANumber99 posted:yeah but its mostly bits nobody wants. Yes, but keep in mind the whole reason they are mostly devoid of people and things people might want to go to is because of big landlords with a big fetish for hunting and the like. c.f. the highland clearances. if the grand swathes of land owned by a few families were broken up a bit people might actually start going there Angepain fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Sep 15, 2020 |
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Sep 15, 2020 22:58
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Given the alternative to letting people wear burqas is passing a law mandating that women have to show more skin to integrate properly into society, I think the choice is fairly obvious? Plus it makes bugger all difference to me what someone else wears.
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Sep 15, 2020 23:04
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Does trump's golf course ownership make this stat better or worse?
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Sep 15, 2020 23:05
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:So first off, are you talking about burqa such as Afghanistan where there is a veil over the eyes too, or 'niqab' where the eyes are not covered? (Sorry for asking if you do know the difference, many do not. When I first went to live in Egypt, my dear sister-in-law started rowing with me saying she didn't want her daughter to grow up in a burqa..she meant niqab .. erm... right oh. She's a UKIPer.)
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Sep 15, 2020 23:06
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OwlFancier posted:Given the alternative to letting people wear burqas is passing a law mandating that women have to show more skin to integrate properly into society, I think the choice is fairly obvious? Then why do you care about a law mandating that women wear skimpy clothing?
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Sep 15, 2020 23:08
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Then why do you care about a law mandating that women wear skimpy clothing? Just to annoy you.
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Sep 15, 2020 23:10
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ThomasPaine posted:I'm not supporting the right? I think it's a ridiculous decision on the part of the uni. I'm mostly just real mad at the kind of woke liberal ultras who think this is a progressive thing to get indignant about, and there would be some comfort knowing that actually it's just the right being shitlords as usual. It's a far more depressing thought that the people doing it might genuinely think they're taking a principled left wing stand, not only because it hands the reactionaries ammunition but also because it shows quite how loving useless and hollowed out by neoliberalism US radicalism has become. To be clear I wasn't saying you were supporting the right, was trying to affirm your "this isn't fair" take. There definitely should be a new political axis for 'woke liberal ultras' because it obviously exists and I'm really sympathetic to the people that do it. If you've been indoctrinated your entire life against any economic system except YOLO late capitalism then if you gently want to make the world a better place radlib woke stuff is logically where you'll end up. It's completely true that racism/sexism/ableism etc exists in the anglosphere, it's a worthy goal to want to right those inequities, and if the meaningful economic route is closed off to you then you'll end up going harder and harder on the social stuff even if it leads to silliness. The problem with radlib woke poo poo is that it's insufficient and is a sociopolitical busy box/culture war poo poo generator the rich are using to distract, but 90% of the obnoxious woke people aren't bad or useless they're just acting that way at this present moment.
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Sep 15, 2020 23:11
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Noxville posted:https://twitter.com/peston/status/1305940592279670784?s=21 Sounds like an excellent plan to put everyone with covid symptoms in a building together with GPs and people with unrelated medical conditions.
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Sep 15, 2020 23:11
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I love Zizek. Even when I think he gets the occasional point wrong, which I think he does quite often (likely half the time because he's trying to be deliberately provocative in a way that doesn't quite land and is in general just a ridiculously messy thinker), he's still one of the most genuinely insightful and radical mainstream(-ish) thinkers we have and he's basically on point in the broad brush strokes 99% of the time.
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Sep 15, 2020 23:18
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justcola posted:A friend of mine is against burqa's because he finds them oppressive. I am for them because people should be able to wear what they want, as what we wear stems from culture. Although on a deeper level I am against all traditions and identities and people should be able to be whatever they want. The working view* I get from talking to muslim colleagues is that the intersection between cultural and religious factors is just really messy. There's definitely some women dressing the way they do because of pressure from people around them (probably family), but it's a minority. To add to what Jaeluni said, I've had colleagues (and service users) who've changed the way they dress after completing Hajj - I'm told the spiritual element of the pilgrimage can have a profound impact on how someone interacts with their faith; this might mean that they start wearing a veil, or that they go from having their head uncovered to wearing a hijab. I've also seen plenty of girls (primary-school aged) who wear a hijab because it's what all the women around them in their community wear. That skeeves some people out, given some of the religious reasons for 'covering up', but I don't personally care. * - I've worked in an area with a substantial muslim population for 7 years and my understanding is growing all the time. I know enough to help new starters with a range of basic questions, but I still find myself asking muslim colleagues about things from time to time. Which they're usually happy to answer.
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Sep 15, 2020 23:20
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ThomasPaine posted:I love Zizek. Even when I think he gets the occasional point wrong, which I think he does quite often (likely half the time because he's trying to be deliberately provocative in a way that doesn't quite land and is in general just a ridiculously messy thinker), he's still one of the most genuinely insightful and radical mainstream(-ish) thinkers we have and he's basically on point in the broad brush strokes 99% of the time.
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Sep 15, 2020 23:26
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I always thought Ankh-Morpork was based on Lancaster and Morecambe, but I don't know where I got this from. Probably from a bloke in an pub in Lancaster - is there any basis to this?
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Sep 15, 2020 23:29
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mrpwase posted:I always thought Ankh-Morpork was based on Lancaster and Morecambe, but I don't know where I got this from. Probably from a bloke in an pub in Lancaster - is there any basis to this? Not to my knowledge. Lancre is based on Lancashire though
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Sep 15, 2020 23:32
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mrpwase posted:I always thought Ankh-Morpork was based on Lancaster and Morecambe, but I don't know where I got this from. Probably from a bloke in an pub in Lancaster - is there any basis to this? There seems to be a few theories around this online and he apparently had family or something around there.
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Sep 15, 2020 23:33
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Yes I reckon the rural community with a incredibly potent apple based alcohol and an absolutely poo poo ton of weird holy sites and magic is based on Lancashire and not Somerset and Wiltshire. I am very smart. namesake fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Sep 15, 2020 |
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Sep 15, 2020 23:39
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Vitamin P posted:It's wierd that England is considered the landlord lovers when it's not even the worst in the UK. Half of England is owned by ~1% of it's population, disgusting for sure, but half of Scotland is owned by 0.009% of it's population but that never really comes up it's odd. Given landlords are bad, then fewer landlords are surely less bad/? If not, then I have bad news about what the whole guillotine plan would do.
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Sep 15, 2020 23:40
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namesake posted:Yes I reckon the rural community with a incredibly potent apple based alcohol and an absolutely poo poo ton of weird holy sites and magic is based on Lancashire and not Somerset. Too protective of Pratchett inspiration claims perhaps?
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Sep 15, 2020 23:43
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mrpwase posted:I always thought Ankh-Morpork was based on Lancaster and Morecambe, but I don't know where I got this from. Probably from a bloke in an pub in Lancaster - is there any basis to this? Lancre, from other books is based on Lancaster and Morecambe. Not too closely it must be said. He does not describe the inhabitants as sounding like they are recovering from a serious head injury every time they open their mouths and speak. Dogatron fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Sep 15, 2020 |
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Sep 15, 2020 23:45
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Too protective of Pratchett inspiration claims perhaps? You can either pick Scotland from the Macbeth parody or Somerset and Wiltshire from most of the specific cultural elements used. You can't just meet halfway and say it's Lancashire.
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Sep 15, 2020 23:46
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What about if the Ramtops are the Pennines?
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Sep 15, 2020 23:50
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radmonger posted:Given landlords are bad, then fewer landlords are surely less bad/? But the badness of a landlord can be measured by the amount of land the landlord is lording over Fewer, landier landlords might well be badder than more, unlandy landlords
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Sep 15, 2020 23:51
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namesake posted:You can either pick Scotland from the Macbeth parody or Somerset and Wiltshire from most of the specific cultural elements used. You can't just meet halfway and say it's Lancashire. Yeah I have no idea. I just quickly googled the thing cos it was interesting, havent read a discworld for 15 years or something. Didnt know I was going to get called dumb. Google says its based onlike new york, prague, wherever the gently caress. Its a fantasy.
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Sep 15, 2020 23:51
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Guavanaut posted:Yeah, I do generally agree with the Big Thoughts that he has in Violence and some of his other works, but the sheer volume of analogies means that there's a bunch that come out as UKIP pub talker "you say baa baa black sheep is racist but support black lives matter" levels of 'huh?' oh yeah, you absolutely have to get used to interpreting his weird eccentricities to get to the meat of what he's saying, and be willing to engage in good faith. One of the reasons he's looked at kinda uneasily by a lot of the mainstream left is that he's extremely easy to misrepresent if you're uncharitable and cherry pick some of his more problematic passages while ignoring the bigger point of his argument. There's definitely a needlessly provocative edgelord buried in there and he clearly has his tongue half in his cheek a lot of the time, so anytime I think 'hold on a minute, what?' I re-read the paragraph while imagining a fat, bearded Slovenian man saying it while giving me a knowing wink, and thinking about it in that tone makes things click for me most of the time. radmonger posted:Given landlords are bad, then fewer landlords are surely less bad/? Bold of you to argue for an absolute monarchy from the left.
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Sep 15, 2020 23:54
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:But the badness of a landlord can be measured by the amount of land the landlord is lording over Indeed if everybody lordied the immediate land they landed on, landlording would be good.
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Sep 15, 2020 23:55
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namesake posted:Yes I reckon the rural community with a incredibly potent apple based alcohol and an absolutely poo poo ton of weird holy sites and magic is based on Lancashire and not Somerset and Wiltshire. Why so aggressive? I’m just going off either the APF or one of the various discworld companions (can’t remember which at this moment in time). Edit: https://discworld.fandom.com/wiki/Lancre is the first reference I can find. Camrath fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Sep 16, 2020 |
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Sep 16, 2020 00:00
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namesake posted:Yes I reckon the rural community with a incredibly potent apple based alcohol and an absolutely poo poo ton of weird holy sites and magic is based on Lancashire and not Somerset and Wiltshire. You could just as vehemently point out that Somerset and Wiltshire are both pretty flat (or at best gently hilly) and Lancre is famously mountainous enough to have a place where the sun shineth not so is obviously Wales, Scotland, or the Pennines. A lot of the characters are generic rural of course, but you've also got Scottish Nac Mac Feegle and Yorkshire dwarves (the Welsh ones are from Copperhead) and central European vampires and werewolves running around, and the surrounding mountains contain bits of Switzerland, the Appalachians, and Scandinavia. The folklore comes from literally all over Europe (and it's surprising - although perhaps not - just how much commonality there is in things like superstitions about smithies and horseshoes). Like everything in Discworld it's an amalgam based on what drives the plot and/or provides a quick joke, and it's completely pointless (and inevitably wrong) to say any one thing is absolutely 100% based on this one real world thing because Pratchett drew from all over the place, which is what makes the books so good.
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Sep 16, 2020 00:03
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:I don't know any book. But I do have Muslim female friends from both majority muslim countries and 'Western' countries. Thank you, and king turnip, for the insight. My friend was talking about the burqa, though I am guilty of conflating that with the niqab (as I imagine is he) - I sometimes talk to Muslim men about faith but no so much women, but will look a bit deeper to get a better grasp. I wasn't too sure if his stance against head coverings was as much to do with women than the way he felt, but it feels wrong to me to focus opposition or 'concerns' against what women wear rather than anything else going on in 2020.
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Sep 16, 2020 00:06
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Dogatron posted:Lancre, from other books is based on Lancaster and Morecambe. That's very rude 
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Sep 16, 2020 00:19
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ankh-morpork is based on all the big cities pratchett knew anything about, obviously mainly london but also venice, new york and if you say you see cairo then I suppose there might be some of that
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Sep 16, 2020 00:23
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ThomasPaine posted:I'm not supporting the right? I think it's a ridiculous decision on the part of the uni. I'm mostly just real mad at the kind of woke liberal ultras who think this is a progressive thing to get indignant about, and there would be some comfort knowing that actually it's just the right being shitlords as usual. It's a far more depressing thought that the people doing it might genuinely think they're taking a principled left wing stand, not only because it hands the reactionaries ammunition but also because it shows quite how loving useless and hollowed out by neoliberalism US radicalism has become. In my experience, when it comes to _factual_ beliefs, what they actually think to be true, there is a large chunk of US liberals who are more or less as racist as a typical Trump voter, The difference is they feel those beliefs to be morally wrong, or at least socially unacceptable. So they will not boast about them, and only act on them when it came to things that really matter, like where they send their kids to school. Having.that gap between what they privately think and what they publicly say means they lose the ability to tell when what they are saying is an unbelievable lie. There is no way anyone actually thought a Chinese word was a sacking matter, or a Londoner’s haircut a source of International outrage. But someone absolutely could think ‘This is what I am _supposed_ to say’. That is hardly unique to the US, but it does seem particularly bad there..Likely there is a feedback loop between what Fox News _claims_ liberals think and what people who want to be accepted in polite company _actually do_ say.
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Sep 16, 2020 00:30
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crispix posted:That's very rude No, it is what they sound like. They can't help it and it is not my fault either.
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Sep 16, 2020 00:33
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justcola posted:Thank you, and king turnip, for the insight. My friend was talking about the burqa, though I am guilty of conflating that with the niqab (as I imagine is he) - I sometimes talk to Muslim men about faith but no so much women, but will look a bit deeper to get a better grasp. I wasn't too sure if his stance against head coverings was as much to do with women than the way he felt, but it feels wrong to me to focus opposition or 'concerns' against what women wear rather than anything else going on in 2020. Btw with my Saudi anecdote, I meant my friend went out with her face UNcovered.
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Sep 16, 2020 00:43
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kingturnip posted:The working view* I get from talking to muslim colleagues is that the intersection between cultural and religious factors is just really messy. There was a project going on in Turkey trying to separate the cultural and religious factors out but that was some years ago and I haven't been able to find out anything on it more recently as to how far they got. Some aspects of what we perceive as 'islamic' behaviours are just middle eastern cultures dating from when everyone lived in a desert. You just have to read the story of Jacob, Rachel and Leah in the bible to know that face coverings was a long tradition and in some Jewish groups (haredi) burqas are worn! And many people don't realize that orthodox Jewish women will often wear wigs so their hair is covered. Also there are various christian groups which also require 'modest dress' and hair coverings too. FGM, for instance, is NOT an requirement of Islam but is an African tradition practised by animists and some christian groups too. The sad thing is it has got hitched to the Islamic 'requirements' and is spreading in Indonesia where about 1/8th of the total world population of muslims live.
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Sep 16, 2020 00:51
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Lancre is France.
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Sep 16, 2020 00:55
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