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CharlestheHammer posted:The serious answer is people are projecting their own very specific issues into this lady which doesn’t actually make sense as we know for a fact why she did it
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Sep 16, 2020 00:38
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She was obviously playing a role and it was super easy to see through it, her using a fake voice being the most obvious and first sign that someone should pick up on. She's doing it for completely different reasons.
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Sep 16, 2020 00:50
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Solice Kirsk posted:She was obviously playing a role and it was super easy to see through it, her using a fake voice being the most obvious and first sign that someone should pick up on. She's doing it for completely different reasons. (I want to note that I'm cis and I'm not trying to talk over the trans posters, just trying to elaborate on what I think the disconnect is.)
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Sep 16, 2020 00:55
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It is a fake voice though.
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Sep 16, 2020 00:56
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MarcusSA posted:It is a fake voice though.
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Sep 16, 2020 01:00
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I mean, there's plenty of stuff hosed up about her. I guess we can start talking about how she has dead emotionless eyes and she doesn't blink. Or that her facial expression never seems to change even when she smiles and laughs.
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Sep 16, 2020 01:01
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PetraCore posted:It's an altered voice. Plenty of people alter their voice for reasons quite different than Elizabeth Holmes, and I don't think they want to be told they have fake voices. No one is talking about them though. We are talking about one specific person doing one thing to help her with her scheme.
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Sep 16, 2020 01:05
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MarcusSA posted:No one is talking about them though. We are talking about one specific person doing one thing to help her with her scheme.
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Sep 16, 2020 01:06
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Holmes altered her voice in large part because of lovely patriarchal cultural baggage about female presentation in heavily male dominated industries. Any discussion of "fake" or "altered" mannerisms in this regard can't be cleaved away from the larger cultural context.
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Sep 16, 2020 01:14
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PetraCore posted:Right. But if other people have said they're upset, then isn't it a small thing to shift your language even if you don't understand why they're upset? Maybe they shouldn't assume everything is an attack against them.
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Sep 16, 2020 01:35
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PetraCore posted:It's an altered voice. Plenty of people alter their voice for reasons quite different than Elizabeth Holmes, and I don't think they want to be told they have fake voices. PetraCore posted:Right. But if other people have said they're upset, then isn't it a small thing to shift your language even if you don't understand why they're upset? There's no particular reason to treat all voice alterations as the same thing, though. If you're going to use only one term, then definitely don't use "fake voice". But even better is to be specific, and make a distinction between someone trying to alter their natural speaking voice versus someone putting on an affectation. And is "fake voice" really that bad of a term to use for an affectation?
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Sep 16, 2020 01:35
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Seriously, when you want to start arguing the semantics of what "fake voice" means in this one and highly specific context then head over to twitter because it's not helping at all. This is like getting offended because someone explained a medical study and using the phrase "the animals were retarded in growth from ages X-Y" because they used the r-word. pentyne has a new favorite as of 01:40 on Sep 16, 2020 |
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Sep 16, 2020 01:38
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I 100% have a fake voice when talking to customers at work. It's literally called "customer service voice". Mine goes much higher pitched and more musical than my regular speaking voice. I can totally see a woman in a business leadership role dropping pitch. She's unlikely the first and if she wasn't a scammer, no one would be fighting over it like this.
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Sep 16, 2020 04:00
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Look, I know this person is doing some weird Darth Vader larp as part of the lies upon lies scam that was their entire career, but sometimes I pretend to be in a good mood at my customer service job so think b4 u judge.
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Sep 16, 2020 04:29
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Soylent Pudding posted:Holmes altered her voice in large part because of lovely patriarchal cultural baggage about female presentation in heavily male dominated industries. Any discussion of "fake" or "altered" mannerisms in this regard can't be cleaved away from the larger cultural context. Teriyaki Hairpiece has a new favorite as of 05:27 on Sep 16, 2020 |
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Sep 16, 2020 05:25
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Picnic Princess posted:I 100% have a fake voice when talking to customers at work. It's literally called "customer service voice". Mine goes much higher pitched and more musical than my regular speaking voice. I can totally see a woman in a business leadership role dropping pitch. She's unlikely the first and if she wasn't a scammer, no one would be fighting over it like this. It's been noted by my peers that my voice changes significantly while talking on the phone, and when talking on the phone to loved ones it changes so much that it's shocking to third parties. It's wholly unconscious though FWIW.
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Sep 16, 2020 06:21
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Okay I'm going to do my best here: 1. Sometimes trans people deepen their voice, and they get poo poo for it 2. Sometimes women with deep voices get poo poo for it 3. Sometimes women with high voices aren't taken serious 4. Sometimes women aren't taken serious in general 5. Sometimes people change their appearances for personal or professional reasons 6. Apropos of none of those 5 things, we really hate this particular wretched evil grifter lady, and find her fake deep voice funny/perplexing
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Sep 16, 2020 06:51
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If you alter your voice to reflect your inner self, whether consciously/unconsciously so, that's fine and good. Present yourself in a way that lets others know who you are. I don't think anyone in this thread is against this. None of them would call this a "fake voice." Be yourself, and others will pick up on it unless they are phobic chuds. The Theranos lady is doing none of the above. This griftlord is not altering their voice to reflect their inner self. They are using a literally fake voice for the express purpose of selling their cool idea. This isn't a LBGTQ+ thing, this is a master level used car salesman, bluffing out their rear end until it's too late to get your money back.
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Sep 16, 2020 07:57
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It's already been said, but true Elizabeth Holmes is a fuckwit who scammed millions of dollars, (dollars that should have gone into healthcare research, and development in a hosed up country that actually needs it), by hawking her fake, snake oil blood test gizmos on the rich and gullible. But it's weird how people are attacking her for her fake deep voice. Yeah, you can use a lot of pop psychology as to WHY she was putting on the fake voice. But it still reeks of "woman has non traditional woman voice, therefore crazy and evil!" I mean she is crazy and evil, and if she gets away with her legal defense of "I have a weird arse mental disorder where I don't feel guilty about all the obviously and provable fraudulent stuff I have done.", which seems to be her plan. Then gently caress her and everything about her. But the fact she put on a silly voice as part of her grift is the least of her crimes.
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Sep 16, 2020 08:32
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We're responding negatively to language that's identical to what TERFs use to try and get us murdered. Not defending some evil grifter. Hope that clears things up for you.
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Sep 16, 2020 10:06
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Six-Of-Hearts posted:We're responding negatively to language that's identical to what TERFs use to try and get us murdered. There's a negative connotation with the phrase "greedy, money grubbing" when associated with Jews. When it's used against non-Jewish it doesn't encourage or support antisemitism. Sometimes language is used for multiple purposes and specific contexts. Bigots don't own the right to complex ideas or syntax and constantly trying to make it a trans issue when the application is extremely narrow and specific to a single case just makes it seem like a trivial issue. No one said "yeah Holmes is doing that thing trans people do" it was all explicitly about how she altered her voice to present herself as a Ladyboss CEO Titan of Silicon Valley and there were reports she dropped it when she was happy/relaxed and freaked out if someone from outside her inner circle heard her.
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Sep 16, 2020 10:19
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Also that a really goofy obviously fake voice apparently impressed all these very wealthy people presumably with expensive college applications and convinced them to invest millions in her magic beans
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Sep 16, 2020 10:37
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Multiple people: hey maybe word it a little better. Theres several cultural undercurrents this ties into. Bootlicker AV: WELL ACTUALLY
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Sep 16, 2020 10:42
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You cannot criticise Donald Trump’s spray tan because some people use cosmetics for things like covering vitiligo. Trump’s fake tan cannot be cleaved away from the larger cultural context surrounding skin tone. You cannot laugh at Elizabeth Holme’s much sadder affectation of wearing dark turtlenecks because sweaters provide comfort to many with gender dysphoria. Seriously, there’s been hostility in this thread, but I don’t see any transphobia.
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Sep 16, 2020 12:35
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When did this thread end up on Reddit?
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Sep 16, 2020 12:55
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Platystemon posted:Seriously, there's been hostility in this thread, but I don't see any transphobia. This thread posted:It's like if she went into an interview wearing a ridiculous fake mustache and glasses. It's such a weird thing to do that it should have sent up a red flag to look closer at what she was claiming. The idea that her choosing to speak outside her normal register should of been reported on and result in a increased level of scrutiny is a lovely option. It was explained by multiple people why, then people spent pages doubling down on it, presumably to be arseholes. RichardA has a new favorite as of 13:17 on Sep 16, 2020 |
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Sep 16, 2020 13:08
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It’s not transphobic to point out that a cis woman is putting on a blatant act to scam investors
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Sep 16, 2020 13:12
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me me me me me me me me me do what I say why can't you just do what I say???? it's so easy to just do what I say, just do it
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Sep 16, 2020 13:24
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Why are people obsessed with defending their hot takes on the single least interesting aspect of Holmes' behavior? Oh no a cis women adopted a different voice to be taken more seriously in male dominated spaces. To the extent there's any humor there it's in how it changed the way rich old fuckers perceived her. To finish my hot take. In almost any other industry I'd almost respect her grift. If she got a bunch of old, powerful rich dudes to invest in her cryptocurrency or wherever I'd applaud her for separating fools from money while also applauding her arrest. But she chose to loving grift on medical equipment. People have likely died directly because her fake product kept them from getting real medical care. And then there's the knock on effect of what biomes startups making legit life saving innovations didn't get funding and will continue to not get funding because Theranos sucked it all up?
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Sep 16, 2020 13:29
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This thread is normally really good, so it was weird to see multiple reports on it. Having read the last page or so, though, I get it! I don't think anyone here is being stubbornly contentious or posting in genuine bad faith. I do think people might have gotten to the point in this particular derail that they're all talking past each other. I'm not sure what more can be usefully added here, so maybe let's move on from the issue of Holmes' voice. Take the discussion literally almost anywhere else. Thanks.
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Sep 16, 2020 13:35
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"You just beat me to the punch, Pastry", said the cis woman IK who sounds like Bea Arthur. Edit: and much better than I would've
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Sep 16, 2020 13:44
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For shits and giggles I looked up other important women in tech. That Carly lady from HP, Sandberg from Facebook, Whitman from eBay/HP/Quibi (that's a steller progression). None sound like Deep Throat. They also don't sound like Elle Woods delivering her closing arguments. Not really knowing what Holmes' natural voice sounds like, maybe it's more squeaky than smooth and she was just trying to be taken seriously. It's brilliant like Trump though, because people focus on some vanity thing like baritones or spray tans and not the really bad poo poo like driving a man to suicide or destroying an economy. The average person doesn't know who Elizabeth Holmes even is, but a significant number of those that do, know her as the lady with the weird voice and not the lady who ran a decade+ long scam. Is that how the pedo guy in Britain managed to get away with being creepy for so long even though he looked really creepy? Did looking creepy somehow distract people from him being creepy? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 16, 2020 13:56
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Krispy Wafer posted:Is that how the pedo guy in Britain managed to get away with being creepy for so long even though he looked really creepy? Did looking creepy somehow distract people from him being creepy? Which one?
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Sep 16, 2020 14:00
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madeintaipei posted:Which one? Saville. Groovelord Neato has a new favorite as of 14:10 on Sep 16, 2020 |
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Sep 16, 2020 14:03
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Krispy Wafer posted:Is that how the pedo guy in Britain managed to get away with being creepy for so long even though he looked really creepy? Did looking creepy somehow distract people from him being creepy? Not only that but Saville even repeatedly "joked" about how creepy he was. It's mindboggling.
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Sep 16, 2020 14:11
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Groovelord Neato posted:Saville. Lol. What was your first answer?
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Sep 16, 2020 14:15
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madeintaipei posted:Lol. What was your first answer? That was my first answer: I had continued the Holmes stuff in my post and hadn't seen the mod post informing us whiners had been putting in reports.
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Sep 16, 2020 14:17
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Could've been Gary Glitter, aka hall-of-fame-fake-name Larry Brilliante.
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Sep 16, 2020 14:23
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I thought it was a joke about Britain being an island full of creepy old pedo dudes?
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Sep 16, 2020 14:43
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Soylent Pudding posted:I thought it was a joke about Britain being an island full of creepy old pedo dudes? It was. Though Glitter doesn't fit since he was a glam rocker so it made since to look the way he did.
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Sep 16, 2020 15:26
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