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Wow... glad I live in an area where power is cheap! My household averages 30-50kWh a day in summer and 50-80 in the winter. But the most expensive I have ever seen my electric is 11.5 cents per kWh, and that is with all the riders and fees they tack on included. Indiana regulatory rules do not allow for time of use power rates far as I know. (though they are coming, utilities got permission to install smart meters in late 2018) It is currently a tiered system based on usage. i.e. the first 500kWh are at one price, the next 400kWh after that are slightly cheaper, and so on. It generally costs a whole $1.10 to fully charge my Volt. But given my daily commute is only 15 miles roundtrip... It is more like 39 cents.
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Sep 17, 2020 15:25
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Wibla posted:How much power do you use per month? Last month I used 299 kWh and that included some level-1 charging of the Kia. We get rebates from California's carbon credit thing.
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Sep 17, 2020 17:10
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Last night was a comedy of errors. I decided to get the Kia charged up at the EVgo station at the Petersen Auto Museum and use the folding bike to grab eats in Little Ethiopia. 30kwh ran me $12.15 and took 45min. When I pulled into the garage the parking sign said ONE HOUR FREE. What I missed was the "$17 after 8:00 pm part." So much for saving $$$. The apartment wants some upfront fee to authorize me to use their ChargePoint charger (which also charges) and since my employer is going to switch to a new location for that, they don't want to fork over the $$. I topped off free today at Whole Foods anyway. Tomorrow we'll get the 6-20 NOT 220v thing dealt with.
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Sep 17, 2020 17:18
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McPhearson posted:I'm in San Diego and with electricity delivery included my rates range from $0.25328 per kwh during super off-peak hours to $0.49627 per kwh during on-peak hours. I don't get how other people are paying so little. wtf that's insane. At 50c/kwh your payback on solar is in the 2-3 year range.
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Sep 17, 2020 17:45
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McPhearson posted:I'm in San Diego and with electricity delivery included my rates range from $0.25328 per kwh during super off-peak hours to $0.49627 per kwh during on-peak hours. I don't get how other people are paying so little. Maybe they have to charge you more in SD because the more temperate weather means you use less electricity? There's a certain amount of base cost in terms of paying employees, pensions, maintaining equipment, etc that has to get paid one way or another. I used 2562 kWh for the period of 6/22 through 8/21, so 1,281 kWh per month but really June and early July would be a fair amount lower than July and August due to the brutal summer we've been having in LA. I just pulled up my bill and we sure love to have random charges in CA - I have a customer charge, the energy charge (your actual power usage), energy cost adjustment charge, electric revenue decoupling charge, public benefits charge (3.6% of the electric total), a city utility users tax (7% of the electric and water totals), plus the state electrical energy surcharge ($0.0003 per kWh).
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Sep 17, 2020 18:55
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Most of the country's maximum electricity rates are set by ordinance, the utility has to request to raise rates. PG&E right now is caught in a web of corruption, mismanagement, and the State of California enacting laws about energy composition, and line reliability (because they're sick of their state burning down) so thick I don't know how they're going to get out of it. But rates are going to have to go up soon or grid reliability is going to tank, unpaid electric bills are forcing utilities nation wide to slash budgets and lay-off employees.
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Sep 17, 2020 19:23
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Word from my power industry friends was that PG&E had requested a rate increase from the CPUC to do more work clearing trees from power lines, but the CPUC denied their request. Maybe they should have been able to do a better job with the current rates, I can't speak to their management. Getting power to remote areas (where people are increasingly living) is always going to be fire prone though, and I'm not sure what the best answer is. Probably shutting off the power during high risk times.
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Sep 17, 2020 19:31
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In CA my rates are similar at $0.49/kwh for peak (2pm-8pm weekdays) and $0.11/kwh for super off peak (10pm-8am) on a time of use plan. Before work from home started we could avoid most electricity usage during peak hours but now we have to run A/C and computers during the day. Still saving a lot compared to a tiered plan - electrons are just expensive in California.
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Sep 17, 2020 19:32
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So the only source I have is insideevs, so take with a grain of salt: https://insideevs.com/news/444503/cadillac-dealers-invest-200k-charging-infrastructure/ It looks like General Motors reached out to their US dealerships saying that must spend $200,000 USD on fast charting infrastructure if they want to sell Cadillacs in 2023 and beyond. I'm amazed they're putting such a short timeline on this, you'd think they would be doing the half baked "hmm, maybe like 2026?" thing. That tells me they're serious about selling their vehicles. This seems like it can be a mix of DCFC, level 2, sales resources, etc. I think this is similar to requirements for Chevy dealerships that sell Bolts, though that's voluntary, per-dealership.
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Sep 17, 2020 20:24
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I wonder if that's public charging or for the service centers to be able to recharge cars to get them ready for customer pickup. The last place I'd want to charge is a car dealership. The plugshare reviews for dealership charging are uniformally "they had new cars parked in the spot/it was turned off and they don't know how to turn it on/the gate was closed, business hours only/they told me only <dealership car brand> cars could charge here"
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Sep 17, 2020 20:49
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MomJeans420 posted:Word from my power industry friends was that PG&E had requested a rate increase from the CPUC to do more work clearing trees from power lines, but the CPUC denied their request. Maybe they should have been able to do a better job with the current rates, I can't speak to their management. Getting power to remote areas (where people are increasingly living) is always going to be fire prone though, and I'm not sure what the best answer is. Probably shutting off the power during high risk times. Yeah, one of my close relatives works for a local not-a-shitshow utility, and it sounds like PG&E was backed into a corner it couldn't get out of, where they legally had to do line maintenance, but couldn't get the rate hikes to do it. But the execs vampiring millions from PG&E's bloated corpse while that's going on is not a good look. Anecdotally, my dad worked for Seattle City Light, a utility that has been planning how to supply the city with power for over a century, that, if it were a private utility would be rich off the sale of hydropower to California, that used to have the most reliable electric grid in the country. Well, they faced budget shortfalls while Enron was defrauding everyone in the early 2000s, combined with a drought meaning they had to buy power for once, and the city council not approving emergency rate hikes. So they hired some "fixer" exec who had never worked for an electric utility, and he gutted maintenance budgets until the utility was in the black, depleting stocks of spares and whatnot that just lead to the utility facing future budget shortfalls. Also, I've met some of the low-level executives from the utility my relative works for, got to chat for awhile, since I'm interested in utility stuff, and they're all retired Navy guys, and they seem to have a genuine sense of civic responsibility, and an obligation to keep the power on to their customers, they're also forgoing bonuses and trying to minimize the impact layoffs are going to have on their workforce.
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Sep 17, 2020 21:01
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RZA Encryption posted:I wonder if that's public charging or for the service centers to be able to recharge cars to get them ready for customer pickup. I think Nissan has something similar going on, all my local DCFC installations are sponsored by the local Nissan dealership, and the dealership I bought my Leaf from has a huge installation of Chademos, which I got to use for free for a year. That dealership keeps a stock of like 40+ used Leafs, so they definitely get a lot of use out of all that charging infrastructure.
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Sep 17, 2020 21:04
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Westy543 posted:
At least for Bolts/Volts it seems the dealers only need to have at least one Level 2 charger and a trained tech. Because any GM dealer around here that services and sells Bolts or Volts, that is all they appear to have over any other GM dealer. Though some GM dealers carrying Bolts do have "Level 3 Lite" chargers that are 25kW CCS units.
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Sep 17, 2020 21:15
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50 cents/kWh is nearly what I was paying when I lived in Juneau and an avalanche took out the power lines to the hydro plant and they had to run the entire town off diesel for 2 months.
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Sep 18, 2020 01:17
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bird with big dick posted:50 cents/kWh is nearly what I was paying when I lived in Juneau and an avalanche took out the power lines to the hydro plant and they had to run the entire town off diesel for 2 months. This is why you don't live in California. It's a garbage state and god is trying to burn it down.
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Sep 18, 2020 01:53
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gwrtheyrn posted:Yeah but you don't have to deal with per-year EV-only taxes like lots of other places. Turns out when you're charged $225 + "1%" of your cars value (an extra ~1-200 the first year over ICE equivalent), you have to drive a lot to save money. I already tossed to previous year's registration card with that info. Edit: my only maintenance cost with my Niro are tire rotation which I have to do anyway. I'd be at 4 oil changes by now. In fact just this week it told me to get an oil change because it still thinks it's a hybrid. CannonFodder fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Sep 18, 2020 |
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Sep 18, 2020 02:05
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Elviscat posted:Anecdotally, my dad worked for Seattle City Light, a utility that has been planning how to supply the city with power for over a century, that, if it were a private utility would be rich off the sale of hydropower to California, that used to have the most reliable electric grid in the country. Well, they faced budget shortfalls while Enron was defrauding everyone in the early 2000s, combined with a drought meaning they had to buy power for once, and the city council not approving emergency rate hikes. So they hired some "fixer" exec who had never worked for an electric utility, and he gutted maintenance budgets until the utility was in the black, depleting stocks of spares and whatnot that just lead to the utility facing future budget shortfalls. Sadly SCL is not a darling right now, with them sending out multi-thousand dollar bills due to typos without being able to correct it, not actually closing accounts and continuing to bill for them, etc. I know the city hired an auditor, not sure what they found or if they released results yet. :[
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Sep 18, 2020 02:05
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Charles posted:Sadly SCL is not a darling right now, with them sending out multi-thousand dollar bills due to typos without being able to correct it, not actually closing accounts and continuing to bill for them, etc. I know the city hired an auditor, not sure what they found or if they released results yet. :[ Yeah, that's just SCL things nowadays. My dad was pretty disheartened when he retired in the mid 2000's, his last project was designing the 23kV system to replace the last of the old 7.5kV system in Ballard, then they were like "eh, no money for it" and threw like 2 years of work in the trash.
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Sep 18, 2020 03:18
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Shamino posted:wtf that's insane. At 50c/kwh your payback on solar is in the 2-3 year range. During peak periods you're not going to be generating anything with rooftop PV.
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Sep 18, 2020 04:15
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~Coxy posted:During peak periods you're not going to be generating anything with rooftop PV. Pretty sure the sun is up from 2PM to 8PM, but it's been a year since I've been to California so maybe that's changed.
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Sep 18, 2020 05:57
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well i hear there's not much sun in california right now...
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Sep 18, 2020 06:46
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It's worse up North now, all the smoke's coming our way. 
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Sep 18, 2020 06:57
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After seeing the comically low prices on Bolts, I'm actually considering one. I see several with DCFC, as well as Driver Confidence 1 and Comfort. How nice/necessary is Driver Confidence 2? My Volt doesn't have any of that lane keep or ACC or anything and I've heard its great.
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Sep 18, 2020 07:05
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my friend in the bay area the other day said his solar panels finally woke up at noon and decided it was daytime and informed him they were currently generating 3 watts.
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Sep 18, 2020 13:04
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MomJeans420 posted:Getting power to remote areas (where people are increasingly living) is always going to be fire prone though, and I'm not sure what the best answer is. Probably shutting off the power during high risk times. Charge extra either for connections or per watt (nb may require changes to the law). Low density areas are bad environmentally anyway, there are way higher priorities for infrastructure subsidies. tbh there are some places were people just shouldn't live, but that seems way more impossible to change than any of the other already impossible changes we need to make.
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Sep 18, 2020 13:32
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Shamino posted:Pretty sure the sun is up from 2PM to 8PM, but it's been a year since I've been to California so maybe that's changed. If 50¢ peak period is really from 2 then that seems bananas. Why wouldn't the utility have some west facing PV if they are that desperate? But regardless, home-scale rooftop PV faces the sun. By 2 you're on the tail end and when you actually arrive at home you're not producing or at least not exporting.
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Sep 18, 2020 13:42
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~Coxy posted:If 50¢ peak period is really from 2 then that seems bananas. Why wouldn't the utility have some west facing PV if they are that desperate? I'm not sure how you are coming to this conclusion as the rooftop solar I have is very much in spring / summer and early autumn producing anywhere from 70-90% max output well up until half hour before sunset. It's westerly facing of course but I can see it is exporting back to the grid deep past 7pm and really coming into export about 12pm. It's not big system but it covers my normal usage for 9 months of the year
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Sep 18, 2020 13:54
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Endymion FRS MK1 posted:After seeing the comically low prices on Bolts, I'm actually considering one. I see several with DCFC, as well as Driver Confidence 1 and Comfort. How nice/necessary is Driver Confidence 2? My Volt doesn't have any of that lane keep or ACC or anything and I've heard its great. Saw them selling (new) for under $25k in LA! That's crazy cheap. I seriously would have gone for this if these deals were around a month ago. I do like the Niro more, but DAYMN, I could have just paid cash for that.
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Sep 18, 2020 15:06
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Shamino posted:Pretty sure the sun is up from 2PM to 8PM, but it's been a year since I've been to California so maybe that's changed. Solar drops off very quickly as the day goes on (this is California on roughly the longest day of the year) *edit* and peak demand is around 6pm  pointsofdata posted:Charge extra either for connections or per watt (nb may require changes to the law). Low density areas are bad environmentally anyway, there are way higher priorities for infrastructure subsidies. NIMBYism keeping more housing from being built in the cities and suburbs kind of means people are forced to move out to previously unpopulated areas, but yeah there are areas that probably shouldn't be populated. Or be populated and expect living in the city level of service. MomJeans420 fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Sep 18, 2020 |
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Sep 18, 2020 18:12
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VideoGameVet posted:Saw them selling (new) for under $25k in LA! That's crazy cheap. Yeah I'm seeing ~$24k for an LT with comfort, both driver confidences, and DCFC. My 2018 Volt is perfectly fine. But I've been wanting to eliminate gas entirely since literally the first month I owned it. If I can get a decent trade, I may jump on this Edit: Guess they're listed including the Costco discount and some prior lease discount. Both of which I don't have. So I'm at $27190 for a Bolt with all the good packages and fast charging Endymion FRS MK1 fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Sep 18, 2020 |
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Sep 18, 2020 18:17
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I've been seeing them around 27-28k on lots around here (Southern Indiana). But stupidly many without DCFC. And there are no state rebates.
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Sep 18, 2020 18:26
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MomJeans420 posted:Solar drops off very quickly as the day goes on (this is California on roughly the longest day of the year) That chart shows that you're still producing 60% of peak at 6PM. If you have a flat peak and off-peak pricing you're still extremely far ahead with solar.
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Sep 18, 2020 18:39
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I've heard many solar installations have turned more westerly to align better with afternoon demand while sacrificing peak power.
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Sep 18, 2020 19:07
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Ideally you'd have batteries to help smooth it out. Does anybody have LG Chem ones? I know Powerwalls are all the rage but they're super expensive and unobtanium.
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Sep 18, 2020 19:13
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Charles posted:Ideally you'd have batteries to help smooth it out. Does anybody have LG Chem ones? I know Powerwalls are all the rage but they're super expensive and unobtanium. A point I usually bring up when we come round to discussing energy storage, a cheaper way might be to store the energy in the form you want to use it. In California, that might be for air conditioning. So you could be using surplus energy to cool a liquid in an insulated container, then use that liquid to cool the house in the afternoon. A simpler example if you have an electric water heater and differentiated tariffs, you could probably put a timer on the heater plug so it only runs at night. You'll probably earn back the meager automation investment in a month or two.
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Sep 18, 2020 19:30
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Lithium batteries have gotten so cheap that we're starting to build peaker plants with them. It's basically a solved problem at this point. As more EV cars hit the road we'll have more used EV batteries to build them with.
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Sep 18, 2020 19:41
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Ola posted:A point I usually bring up when we come round to discussing energy storage, a cheaper way might be to store the energy in the form you want to use it. In California, that might be for air conditioning. So you could be using surplus energy to cool a liquid in an insulated container, then use that liquid to cool the house in the afternoon. A simpler example if you have an electric water heater and differentiated tariffs, you could probably put a timer on the heater plug so it only runs at night. You'll probably earn back the meager automation investment in a month or two. We should just re-design A/C systems to compress huge amounts of propane instead of just doing like 10lbs of freon at a time. Compress 600lbs of propane at 3AM when electricity is basically free and then gradually run it through the refrigeration cycle over the day.
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Sep 18, 2020 20:02
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Someone can check my math, but I think that’s about equivalent to 15,000 sticks of dynamite in energy. Even if I’m a couple orders of magnitude off, that might be a hard sell for most homeowners.
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Sep 18, 2020 20:19
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Ola posted:A point I usually bring up when we come round to discussing energy storage, a cheaper way might be to store the energy in the form you want to use it. In California, that might be for air conditioning. So you could be using surplus energy to cool a liquid in an insulated container, then use that liquid to cool the house in the afternoon. A simpler example if you have an electric water heater and differentiated tariffs, you could probably put a timer on the heater plug so it only runs at night. You'll probably earn back the meager automation investment in a month or two. Have had these installed for the past 10 years or so https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TYS2KVQ. Water heater runs twice a day and we've never noticed lack of hot water, when I was single I only had it run once a day.
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Sep 18, 2020 20:30
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How many sticks of dynamite are equivalent to a powerwall?
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Sep 18, 2020 20:30
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