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radmonger posted:Corbyn lost his chance at power when he failed to engage with the Northern pensioner class on any terms other than Brexit (I.e ‘how much do you want us to gently caress over the foreigns? Would you settle for just a little bit?’). Pensioners don’t want jobs, training or broadband; they want to understand the country they live in, believe it will continue after they are dead, and have their bins collected. I'm genuinely interested to hear how Corbyn could have done more when his own loving party were working against him. E: It is his 4th birthday today: 
Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Sep 22, 2020 |
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Sep 22, 2020 11:59
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I agree that sticking with the strategic ambiguity on Brexit or sticking with soft brexit would not have worked out for Labour in 2019 - ultimately Labour is trapped in the jaws of an extremely problematic electoral divide that doesn't have a neat answer. The answer that *does* keep cropping up is that Labour needs to offer radical economic change, since the majority of Labour voters think the current economic system is broken. Which makes Dodds' and Nandy's comments about tax pretty alarming. I also think housing is going to be *the* issue to unite the working and middle class since there is already a bunch of middle class anxiety about boomers/gen-xers kids not being able to afford housing and inheritances being whittled away by the cost of social care. I think the radical left in this country does have a big problem talking about strategy in general and there is a lot of wishful thinking around "if we just present the most moral option possible that will convince people" and declaring anyone who isn't already on board with that a Tory
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Sep 22, 2020 12:02
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Sep 22, 2020 12:02
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 but:-https://techstartups.com/2020/09/21/civvl-home-eviction-startup-launches-hire-gig-workers-help-landlords-kick-people-homes/ quote:Civvl, a home eviction startup, launches to hire gig workers to help landlords kick people out of their homes  radmonger posted:Corbyn lost his chance at power when he failed to engage with the Northern pensioner class on any terms other than Brexit (I.e ‘how much do you want us to gently caress over the foreigns? Would you settle for just a little bit?’). Pensioners don’t want jobs, training or broadband; they want to understand the country they live in, believe it will continue after they are dead, and have their bins collected.
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Sep 22, 2020 12:02
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Guavanaut posted:
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Sep 22, 2020 12:06
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Guavanaut posted:They are unreasonable when they take the form of "kick out all the Coloureds who come here from Poland" and "bring back hanging" because they've been sold a return to a world that never existed where they get to do what they like and nobody else has rights. And when the last bit continues "...by real men who hoik the bin over their shoulder from my garden". That's not very reasonable either.
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Sep 22, 2020 12:14
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It was better when they came in your yard for the bins, I say, as I lock the fourth bolt on my garden gate to keep out the Poles that nick plant pots.
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Sep 22, 2020 12:19
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It's fun watching the news and people fizzing in their undies about what a grown up Keir is and he literally stood in front of a red brick wall, get it, the famous red wall that we all know and love that is definitely not just copying off the rust belt in uspol. All I've heard about his policies is that he wants to do what he thinks the Tories are doing, but with better spreadsheets. Starting to wonder if I'll bother voting and if not, can I save myself the hassle of watching people with gout mumble about hard decisions and patriotism. e: 'we deserved to lose the election'. He can go gently caress himself til he turns inside out. All the people who donated money, knocked on doors, everything we did whilst cunts like him were sabotaging it behind the scenes, then he turns around and says that? Horrible little man. justcola fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Sep 22, 2020 |
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Sep 22, 2020 12:24
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Yesterday we have all the experts saying we'll have 50,000 cases daily soon if the government don't start getting serious, today we get 10pm pubs closures & WFH if your boss lets you. You can see why the messaging has broken down. Knowing this country the new pub rules will just ensure maxium shunting in pubs from 5pm-10pm in very crowded conditions and then 'get some cans and come back to mine' for the rest of the night or just skip the pub stage entirely. Damaging the pub trade which the government is desperate to look like their saving, for no gain.
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Sep 22, 2020 12:28
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justcola posted:It's fun watching the news and people fizzing in their undies about what a grown up Keir is and he literally stood in front of a red brick wall, get it, the famous red wall  Kier Starmer (file photo)
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Sep 22, 2020 12:29
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JoylessJester posted:Knowing this country the new pub rules will just ensure maxium shunting in pubs from 5pm-10pm in very crowded conditions and then 'get some cans and come back to mine' for the rest of the night or just skip the pub stage entirely. Damaging the pub trade which the government is desperate to look like their saving, for no gain. Someone pointed out on Reddit that getting everyone in the pub watching Arsenal vs Liverpool on Monday to leave in the 86th minute will be fun.
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Sep 22, 2020 12:33
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radmonger posted:Corbyn lost his chance at power when he failed to engage with the Northern pensioner class on any terms other than Brexit (I.e ‘how much do you want us to gently caress over the foreigns? Would you settle for just a little bit?’). Pensioners don’t want jobs, training or broadband; they want to understand the country they live in, believe it will continue after they are dead, and have their bins collected. I disagree. What is just about "reasonable" is that they are permitted the basic necessities of subsistence while they slowly rot to death. Anything else comes at the expense of everyone else's future and they are entitled to none of it. We should not suffer so that some demented old fart can wank themselves silly at the thought of nationalist bullshit enduring after they are mercifully dead. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Sep 22, 2020 |
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Sep 22, 2020 12:34
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Starmer is so desperate to be this generation’s Blair I bet he’s already fantasising about all the war crimes he’ll get away with
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Sep 22, 2020 12:36
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:
Rainkier Wolfstarmer
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Sep 22, 2020 12:38
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Kier and his handlers intentionally sank labour with their control over the Brexit strategy and the complaints office and are now pretending that didn't happen. The media are paid big bucks to not notice that happened so it's very easy for them to do that.
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Sep 22, 2020 12:39
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Keith Stairmaster is a trash bag full of sensible racism.
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Sep 22, 2020 12:40
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Imagine being a Labour MP and quoting Thomas Mair, even if it was accidentally. gently caress Nandy, and the rest of the dead useless party.
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Sep 22, 2020 12:43
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radmonger posted:To people in this thread genuinely think that Labour could have won the Brexit election of 2019 with a policy of ‘err, I dunno?’ The policy that had Labour at 19% in the polls, 3rd behind the LDs? There probably wasn't any way Labour could win in 2019 without going back in time several years and playing a very different game both internally and externally, meaning it's a fantasy counterfactual at best (Given the pandemic that's probably a good thing in retrospect at this moment in time). That doesn't mean the sub groups of Labour and external enemies who pretended to stand for things while sabotaging ways of achieving those things or abandoning them once their actual objectives have been met deserve anything but total scorn when they claim to be worth listening to.
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Sep 22, 2020 12:46
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Communist Thoughts posted:Kier and his handlers intentionally sank labour with their control over the Brexit strategy and the complaints office and are now pretending that didn't happen. And it loving works, have you seen reddit/twitter? People are eating this poo poo up. Turns out it is that easy to trick people.
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Sep 22, 2020 12:46
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justcola posted:Starting to wonder if I'll bother voting and if not, can I save myself the hassle of watching people with gout mumble about hard decisions and patriotism. I mean if you want to engage with the process then send your membership money to momentum or the unions so they can keep the pressure on Labour, or worst case scenario form their own party. As people keep saying over and over in this thread people are loving dying out there, and the Tories are actively seeking to make it all worse. Yes, New Labour are not going to fix the environment or civil rights or welfare or probably even the economy. Yes they have huge problems with trans representation. But at least they're not actively worsening things out of malice. Put it this way. If someone can prioritise their idealogical purity over the active worsening of conditions for minorities, refugees, disabled and vulnerable people, and the working poor, what does that say about them? Keir's poo poo. Labour's poo poo. But not voting for them doesn't make the poo poo parties go away. One of them still gets in, and if the left disengages, that's pushes things toward the far right. Or did we suddenly all forget the overton window? Low turnouts don't send the message people like to pretend they do, it just gives centrists fuel to rant about avocados. So the only power you have in a poo poo system is to vote for the least poo poo option. It sucks, but I'd rather say my vote went towards not actively making the world even shitter for disabled and vulnerable people than maintaining some privelaged ideological purity. Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 12:52 on Sep 22, 2020 |
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Sep 22, 2020 12:48
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The pub thing just makes no sense at all. Not only have very very few transmissions been traced there, how is 1 hour early going to do anything other than rob staff of an hours pay? Shutting at 11/12 means that people will probably go home - shutting at 10 absolutely gives rise to the 'few cans back at mine' from a few posts up.
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Sep 22, 2020 12:48
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Put it this way. If someone can prioritise their idealogical purity over the active worsening of conditions for minorities, refugees, disabled and vulnerable people, and the working poor, what does that say about them? That they're an excellent pick to lead the labour party.
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Sep 22, 2020 12:54
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Bobby Deluxe posted:It sucks, but I'd rather say my vote went towards not actively making the world even shitter for disabled and vulnerable people than maintaining some privelaged ideological purity. lol it really is 2013-14 again. Lesser evilism is completely dead as an effective political argument in the UK, you're instead seeing apathy and separatism as the major response to 'well at least we aren't the other major party' as a key argument. Just accept that voting for either of the major parties won't help those in need and start thinking about what will and acting accordingly.
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Sep 22, 2020 12:55
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Super exciting brewery update! We're through to the final for a huggggee grant which will absolutely see us through to the next stage! It's public voting, which I always absolutely hate - but if anyone wants to help out by voting at https://bit.ly/vote-for-mash and selecting 'Mash Paddle Brewery' at the bottom that would be incredible!
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Sep 22, 2020 12:55
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Bobby Deluxe posted:I don't know. I read this a lot, and I get it, but... Seriously? Keir is lovely and middle of the road, but middle of the road is better than a storm drain with Boris peeking out of it telling you we all float down here. As an unemployed extremely poor underqualified failson millennial who will only have any wealth when my parents die in a mysterious simultaneous fall down the stairs I say kill em all. Wait, that's not right. I say ideological purity is literally all I've been left by 40+ years of neoliberal immiseration. It's not a position of privilege, accepting the continued existence of a status quo that clearly only works for maybe 2% of the population is a position of privilege. Accepting the least worst option is what got us in the position we are in today. No more. Not embracing accelerationism is in fact a position of privilege. Pull the loving plaster off quickly and get it over with Why yes, I'm having a normal one. But the "ideological purity " line is garbage. Keir Starmer's Labour Party is as neoliberal as Boris's Tories and trying to also be as patriotic. And neoliberalism is absolutely antithetical to my worldview. You're not asking me to vote for someone a little different from me, you're asking me to vote for someone whose policies are incompatible with my beliefs. Wait, that's unfair, Keir has done his hardest not to have any policies. His rhetorical positioning then. forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 13:02 on Sep 22, 2020 |
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Sep 22, 2020 12:57
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I mean I guess vote if it makes you feel better but recognise that it's a symbolic gesture only, that the electoral system is an irrelevance either way at this point, and that what's going to happen is going to happen regardless of which tory party is in power
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Sep 22, 2020 13:01
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namesake posted:Just accept that voting for either of the major parties won't help those in need and start thinking about what will and acting accordingly. Voting for either of the parties won't help, but you can certainly stop things from actively getting worse.
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Sep 22, 2020 13:02
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Not a lick of criticism from Starmer in response to Boris's "corona only affects you if you're out after 10pm, like some sort of gremlin" statement. In case anyone was wondering.
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Sep 22, 2020 13:02
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To find out 2017 was ruined by the same party I voted for makes it tough to keep doing the same thing.
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Sep 22, 2020 13:02
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The last time this happened suggests that no, you can't, they will just get worse in a different way. You could make the argument that voting labour is accelerationism at this point.
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Sep 22, 2020 13:03
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Right, but you can do that and use your vote against the tories. No you can't. A vote for Labour is merely letting brakepad lightly kiss the whatever part of a car the brakepad touches, the wheel I assume? It's not stopping anything, it's just slightly reducing the top speed.
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Sep 22, 2020 13:04
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For most people your vote doesn't matter at all, on top of that your vote is quite literally the one piece of symbolic political power you are granted. Don't piss it away to vote for something you don't want, your grandad didn't I spent 2 elections pointlessly voting for scotlab against the SNP and in neither did my vote come close to mattering. So yeah I'm not gonna be voting for Labour next time if they continue to go in the opposite direction to me.
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Sep 22, 2020 13:05
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forkboy84 posted:... You put it much better than I was about to. Very much agree.
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Sep 22, 2020 13:05
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forkboy84 posted:No you can't. A vote for Labour is merely letting brakepad lightly kiss the whatever part of a car the brakepad touches, the wheel I assume? It's not stopping anything, it's just slightly reducing the top speed. The brake pad contacts the disk which is attached to the axle. Unless it's the back wheel in which case you may have a drum brake and the "pads" press outwards onto the drum.
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Sep 22, 2020 13:08
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I do think that come GE time we will get hit on full blast by the kind of blue no matter who anti trump rhetoric we see in the states. Where bojo is framed as an aberration instead of the natural conclusion of lesser evilism
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Sep 22, 2020 13:08
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SpaceCommie posted:The brake pad contacts the disk which is attached to the axle. Unless it's the back wheel in which case you may have a drum brake and the "pads" press outwards onto the drum. Cool, the metaphor so tortured that it could start a nu-metal band still works.
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Sep 22, 2020 13:09
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Right, but you can do that and use your vote against the tories. You really, really can't, man. It's a horrible thing to have to swallow and internalise, but it's pretty important - for your own sanity, if nothing else - that parliamentary politics will not save you EDIT we were all traumatised to varying degrees by December and then the 2017 sabotage revelations, and I understand if you want to think you can still affect things by voting, but you'll be happier once you stop saying the pig's still good and listen to your son when he says 'it's gone, dad' Barry Foster fucked around with this message at 13:14 on Sep 22, 2020 |
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Sep 22, 2020 13:09
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Barry Foster posted:You really, really can't, man. It's a horrible thing to have to swallow and internalise, but it's pretty important - for your own sanity, if nothing else - that parliamentary politics will not save you It's only a bit Britain first! It's still good!
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Sep 22, 2020 13:16
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forkboy84 posted:I say ideological purity is literally all I've been left by 40+ years of neoliberal immiseration. It's not a position of privilege, accepting the continued existence of a status quo that clearly only works for maybe 2% of the population is a position of privilege. Accepting the least worst option is what got us in the position we are in today. No more. If you support Momentum and the unions and they continue to try to push Labour left, you might influence a few things and make a few things better. If you don't vote at all, and the tories get in, things get actively worse for vulnerable groups. But those who didn't vote or engage because there were no 'good' options get to sit there pleased with themselves while everything gets worse for the disabled and vulnerable. That's the privelage I'm talking about. Disengaging and blackpilling and hoping for a complete breakdown of the system when - as poo poo as the system is - there are a lot of people who kind of rely on it for medical care, food, housing and protection. Like if it's going to be bad for diabetics and people who need oxygen under brexit, imagine how bad it would be under an accelerationist fantasy?
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Sep 22, 2020 13:16
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Oh, apparently the NHS covid tracking app is out, and there's coverage in some areas now. Extremely normal that I found this out from a laminated piece of A4 on a corkboard in an out of the way bit of the local park while going for a walk and not from some kind of 'announcement' that might 'reach people'. SpaceCommie posted:The brake pad contacts the disk which is attached to the axle. Unless it's the back wheel in which case you may have a drum brake and the "pads" press outwards onto the drum. Barry Foster posted:You really, really can't, man. It's a horrible thing to have to swallow and internalise, but it's pretty important - for your own sanity, if nothing else - that parliamentary politics will not save you Threaten but Participate, otherwise you end up repeating the mistakes of every other election boycott. (ronya, please do a ronyapost on the fallout of the Sunni boycott in the 2005 Iraq elections)
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Sep 22, 2020 13:17
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