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Vote to threadban Bioshuffle This poll is closed. |
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| Yes (Goku) |
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146 | 85.38% |
| No (also Goku) |
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25 | 14.62% |
| Total: | 171 votes | ||
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WampaLord posted:To me, you're setting the moral standards at a weird place because of course it's a better reaction than Homelander's, Homelander is a loving sociopath. Everyone's reactions are better than Homelander all the time. Stormfront is a literal Nazi who has killed countless minorities. Homelander has killed any number of innocents without giving a poo poo. These two work for a corporation that has harbored Nazis and is basically a giant experiment in eugenics across the globe (it was interesting for them to note the demographics of the created super heroes). We are setting the bar where the show has it set: basically underground. What do you expect? Also, pathos does not mean "redeeming." It means "eliciting sad emotion." Seven Hundred Bee posted:which is why its significant that even that minimum of human empathy sets him apart from the other seven, thats how bad they are This! Prowler fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Sep 22, 2020 |
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Sep 22, 2020 21:25
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:A-Train is a tragic figure, a token Speedster who is doomed to be eventually eclipsed by someone younger and faster and it isn't shocking that he'll do anything to keep the ride going as long as he can. She was two steps off the curb.
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Sep 22, 2020 21:25
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i also wonder if theres a relationship between 'how powerful a hero is' and 'how bad of a person they are'. starlight does seem kind of weak compared to the others? this is probably clearer in the comics.
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Sep 22, 2020 21:26
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Prowler posted:Stormfront is a literal Nazi esperterra posted:Going forward, debating whether or not Stormfront is or was literally a member of the Nazi party, or is simply an incredibly racist person, will earn probes. They're all bad in different ways. Even Starlight is a snitch who uses blackmail and other unsavory tactics to get what she wants. It's one of the best things about the show. Even the heroes are assholes. Look at Frenchy- he's a drug abusing gun smuggling criminal who tries to take advantage of a woman in mourning. Bioshuffle fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Sep 22, 2020 |
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Sep 22, 2020 21:33
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Seven Hundred Bee posted:i also wonder if theres a relationship between 'how powerful a hero is' and 'how bad of a person they are'. starlight does seem kind of weak compared to the others? this is probably clearer in the comics. Yeah I kinda wish they elaborated on a few of the superheroes powers, like mainly Starlight/Maeve/Homelander/Stormfront/Black Noir. Like... what does Maeve do again?  Also, I think A-Train will play an integral part in bringing down Stormfront, which I think he will die doing, and that will be the extent of him "redeeming" himself.
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Sep 22, 2020 21:36
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It feels super reductive to me to watch a show and apply real world absolute morality to it, to the point where you just write characters off completely. I think you have to think about the characters in the context of the world they exist in, and the spectrum of morality of the other characters. I don’t think anyone is saying that A-Train is “good” in the simplistic way you could say Starlight is, but you can look at the time the show is spending on inviting you to recalibrate your feelings about a character, and give it some consideration. A-Train has had some real pathos this season, in sharp contrast to The Deep who the show has decided does not deserve similar treatment, and is basically just pratfalling everywhere. As said before he is being shown as losing everything that he believed was important, and it isn’t being conveyed on screen in a way that is supposed to make you enjoy it. That, I feel, is very deliberate. He’s turned into a pretty interesting character.
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Sep 22, 2020 21:38
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Seven Hundred Bee posted:or in other words one of the reasons why the show is good is because it resets the 'what makes someone better than others' to an absurd scale and creates empathy for a character who is also a monster
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Sep 22, 2020 21:38
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Durzel posted:It feels super reductive to me to watch a show and apply real world absolute morality to it, to the point where you just write characters off completely. I think you have to think about the characters in the context of the world they exist in, and the spectrum of morality of the other characters. Never did I say I was writing off A Train completely, I agree that he's an interesting character. There were just some posts I disagreed with, and we had a discussion about it! Isn't posting great?
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Sep 22, 2020 21:39
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Sortmfront being a Supe-premacist really pushes along the horror that she thinks supes are inherently better than measly humans, and there's a supe hierarchy at play so it's not just "we rock". Great job by the writers there. But ugh super foreplay at the end  FFwd through all of that .
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Sep 22, 2020 21:40
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I'm pretty sure the whole point of A-Train's story is to end up exploring 'how do you feel about this guy who has been a piece of poo poo and isn't really remorseful and hasn't really improved themselves, but wants to be on team good guys because they've decided it's their least worst option?' How important is the moral purity of your movement to you? Also re: Homelander my rationalisation of his powers is: he levitates when he flies, he's not generating constant thrust from anywhere. He's still subject to equal and opposite forces and momentum while flying, and he personally has almost no mass in comparison to the plane.
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Sep 22, 2020 21:43
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WampaLord posted:Never did I say I was writing off A Train completely, I agree that he's an interesting character. There were just some posts I disagreed with, and we had a discussion about it! Isn't posting great?
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Sep 22, 2020 21:47
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Speaking of A-Train, let's not forget this gem. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5czdDuQ5Kw "You"ll teach me to outrun cancer?"
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Sep 22, 2020 21:49
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Wild T posted:She was two steps off the curb. And that's still on the street! If she was standing on the sidewalk she would still be alive 
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Sep 22, 2020 22:23
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Alchenar posted:Also re: Homelander my rationalisation of his powers is: he levitates when he flies, he's not generating constant thrust from anywhere. He's still subject to equal and opposite forces and momentum while flying, and he personally has almost no mass in comparison to the plane. He can carry other people, so it seems he can apply some amount of force. But really, these are magical powers that defy real-world explanations. None of them are going to make sense if you try to calculate energy usage or force applied or whatever.
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Sep 22, 2020 22:27
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Wild T posted:She was two steps off the curb. That's the long way to say "the street." 
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Sep 22, 2020 22:34
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When you think about it the show has done a really good job fleshing out a cast of appalling human beings who all have realistic motivations for the casual atrocities they commit. And yeah there does seem to be a correlation with supe power level and body count.
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Sep 22, 2020 22:50
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Bioshuffle posted:Please don't start this again. In case you missed it esperterra chimed in earlier in the thread with regards to that topic. That post doesn't say not to call Stormfront a nazi, it says not to debate it.
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Sep 22, 2020 23:03
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Durzel posted:It feels super reductive to me to watch a show and apply real world absolute morality to it, to the point where you just write characters off completely. I think you have to think about the characters in the context of the world they exist in, and the spectrum of morality of the other characters. A-Train is also someone you can see walking the Damascus road in a way that Homelander or Stormfront never could. I'm sure that at some point he'll learn that Hughie saved his life after his heart attack when Starlight would have let him die, and his response to that is going to be interesting.
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Sep 22, 2020 23:07
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I feel like the most likely outcome is Maeve and whoever takes her side just all get lasered.
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Sep 22, 2020 23:10
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Jedit posted:A-Train is also someone you can see walking the Damascus road in a way that Homelander or Stormfront never could. I'm sure that at some point he'll learn that Hughie saved his life after his heart attack when Starlight would have let him die, and his response to that is going to be interesting. Man maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I thought Starlight DID tell him that earlier this season.
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Sep 22, 2020 23:10
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Bioshuffle posted:Please don't start this again. In case you missed it esperterra chimed in earlier in the thread with regards to that topic. Prowler wasn't debating whether she's a Nazi. They're using the fact that she is [textually and metatextually] a Nazi when having a discussion about the relative badness of her versus other characters. This is a pretty useless thread if we can't discuss a major element of a new and significant character.
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Sep 22, 2020 23:11
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The post has been made that Stormfront is a nazi. The rule will only be violated, and probations handed out, if someone were to post anything disputing it. Stormfront is a nazi btw
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Sep 22, 2020 23:12
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I need to see Stormfront humbled just a bit. She’s so smarmy and sarcastic and two steps ahead of everyone she has a conversation with. This is probably the point but...still.
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Sep 22, 2020 23:14
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sponges posted:I need to see Stormfront humbled just a bit. She’s so smarmy and sarcastic and two steps ahead of everyone she has a conversation with. Next episode preview suggests Homelander confronts her about her past and she looks distressed but it could all be an act.
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Sep 22, 2020 23:16
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sponges posted:I need to see Stormfront humbled just a bit. She’s so smarmy and sarcastic and two steps ahead of everyone she has a conversation with. She's the alt-right, Richard Spencer-esque (even her undercut) memelord in contrast to the dated patriotism of Homelander. Given how the media drooled over Spencer or similar figures like Milo before their respective falls it makes sense for her to be a step ahead of everyone before a (hopefully satsifying) end.
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Sep 22, 2020 23:17
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sponges posted:I need to see Stormfront humbled just a bit. She’s so smarmy and sarcastic and two steps ahead of everyone she has a conversation with. I’m already eager for it, but I’m ok with them continuing to build her a bit longer. By the time she gets even a little comeuppance we’ll all be frothing at the mouth for it. She’s a remarkably effective villain when you consider she hasn’t had *that* much screen time with the show split between so many plots that don’t directly involve her. The actress is very good and does a lot of work with little smirks and other subtleties.
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Sep 22, 2020 23:21
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Panfilo posted:Next episode preview suggests Homelander confronts her about her past and she looks distressed but it could all be an act. Painful as it is to theorycraft this way: if she's not sticking around beyond the end of this season then the next episode is the one where Homelander starts to suspect something's wrong, she'll semi-successfully deflect, the episode after next will be Homelander arching from 'everything's fine' to 'everyone lied to me again' and the finale will be comeuppance time. e: we are also going to get conclusive proof on literal nazi/not literal nazi. Ordinarily I'd say we wouldn't, but the show has made Stormfront's past an explicit Mystery To Be Solved. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Sep 22, 2020 |
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Sep 22, 2020 23:26
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Aphrodite posted:I feel like the most likely outcome is Maeve and whoever takes her side just all get lasered. Speaking of, I really don't know why Maeve has gone to Deep for an ally. All the dude wants is back on the team, and Homelander is a) team leader, b) told him he might get back on the team soon, and c) doesn't care about his sexual assault. Meanwhile Maeve and Starlight quite clearly hate him and probably wouldn't work with him even if he helped them. So what's stopping him shopping her to Homelander in exchange for taking her place?
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Sep 22, 2020 23:34
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jabby posted:Speaking of, I really don't know why Maeve has gone to Deep for an ally. He was just saying that so The Deep wouldn't bug him about it. It was a brush off rather than a confirmation.
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Sep 22, 2020 23:40
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jabby posted:Speaking of, I really don't know why Maeve has gone to Deep for an ally. I think the smart money is on Maeve getting The Deep, or his fishy friends, to search the sea bed for any stuff missed from the plane crash in season 1. That will be where she acquires a phone or memory card or something that has that footage of them on (per the episode 6 preview) Obviously that damns Maeve to some extent too, but she wants out anyway.
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Sep 22, 2020 23:45
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i hope they do the thing that some JL writer did (might have been the earth2) where aquaman gets powered up and wrecks poo poo since being able to go so deep would make him incredibly strong and durable. just keep that deep is an idiot and doesnt know how to use his powers
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Sep 23, 2020 00:33
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ptkfvk posted:i hope they do the thing that some JL writer did (might have been the earth2) where aquaman gets powered up and wrecks poo poo since being able to go so deep would make him incredibly strong and durable. Deep getting various sea creatures horribly killed and then being the only one super bummed out about it will never stop being darkly funny.
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Sep 23, 2020 00:51
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I want to be a suicide bomber like Naqib.
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Sep 23, 2020 01:00
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Yeah that was kinda ... something .... to make the Arabic supe a mega suicide bomber That actor was hot as gently caress though jesus christ lol  look at this poo poo
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Sep 23, 2020 01:01
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jabby posted:Speaking of, I really don't know why Maeve has gone to Deep for an ally. Homelander was lying The Deep is an idiot
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Sep 23, 2020 01:54
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Bioshuffle posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaUC1Al53uc He’s an addict, but again your ideology betrays you. There is no confusion for you in regards to A-Train’s motivation.
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Sep 23, 2020 02:43
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I think one of the things I like about this show is nobody is really what we'd consider good. They're trying to imagine a modern world in which gods actually exist. And yeah, they'd probably be assholes.
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Sep 23, 2020 02:46
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RIP Naqib, burn in truth
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Sep 23, 2020 02:48
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Now that the tension is eased and we all agree Stormfront is a Nazi and A-Train is not a good person, have we all seen the bloopers? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S9hYyxjTt8
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Sep 23, 2020 02:57
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ruddiger posted:He’s an addict, but again your ideology betrays you. There is no confusion for you in regards to A-Train’s motivation. Also, what ideology are you talking about? The one where I think people who murder without remorse for their personal gain are more villain than hero? Bioshuffle fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Sep 23, 2020 |
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Sep 23, 2020 03:18
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