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Ccs posted:...every major Kantic character being a villain of some sort (aside from Ferro I guess, but she's part demon...) Kahdia, Temple, Majud?
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Sep 19, 2020 21:59
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Suxpool posted:Kahdia, Temple, Majud? I wonder how Shy and Temple are doing these days. 
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Sep 19, 2020 22:38
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On Zuri Rikke suggesting that Savine is Zuri's companion and not the other way around also adds weight to her being Ishri or an eater. With all the other foreshadowing I'm on board as well.
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Sep 20, 2020 04:14
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She's covered in bandages, magically competent, strong as hell, a wiseass, and we haven't seen ishri at all yet even though shes been a prominent figure in the standalones. Zuri is ishri and has been manipulating savine the whole time, probably in league with glotka. Considering glotka mentioned burning poo poo everything down just before retiring and is the only major character who has seen the house of the maker and knows about magic, I'm betting that he started the burners with zuri help. Savine has been supplying them weapons, probably under zuris manipulation. Theres no way glotka didn't know about pike doing all this, listen to pike talk, he's a zealot, he's good but not that good to hide it from glotka
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Sep 20, 2020 05:27
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Wait when is she shown to be magically competent? And when does Glokta talk about burning things down before retirement?
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Sep 20, 2020 05:33
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Ccs posted:Zuri is a constant companion to Savine, there’s no way someone like that wouldn’t have noticed if she was unable to eat most foods (Eaters have to keep specific diets) plus I don’t think that’s the direction Abercrombie is going with the character. As another poster said, possible Zuri and her brothers are Eaters. Possible they’re agents for Khalul. It does seem like something is being planned for Zuri, but I hope that’s not it. Yep, I’m expecting Tolomei to reappear after the stuff about the House of the Maker being opened and a Great Change. If you want a a Great Change in the First Law world, you’re going to end up fighting Bayaz and Yoru Sulfur, and you’ll need other magic users for that. And it’s not just Tolomei locked in the Makers House. Yulwei may still be alive in there, and now carrying a grudge against Bayaz after finding out that he lied to him about Tolomei and then abandoned him.
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Sep 20, 2020 10:36
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Ccs posted:Wait when is she shown to be magically competent? And when does Glokta talk about burning things down before retirement? in the new book “Sometimes,” he (Glokta) murmured, “the only way to improve something is to destroy it, so it can be rebuilt better. Sometimes, to change the world, we must first burn it down.”
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Sep 20, 2020 11:25
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Ccs posted:Wait when is she shown to be magically competent? And when does Glokta talk about burning things down before retirement? I mean, literally every single time savine talks about her she mentions how she's nothing without her, she's always there and ready to do exactly what savine needs at that moment. She's the one who gets all the perfect gifts for example, she's the perfect servant that never makes a mistake
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Sep 20, 2020 15:42
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I'm not through this book yet, only just started, but so far I just wanna say, Leo is such a dumb motherfucker who acts like a sullen child more often than not.
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Sep 20, 2020 16:01
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Glotka running a long con against Bayez would be amazing, and resigning is the perfect way to remove suspicion from himself.
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Sep 20, 2020 17:25
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His Divine Shadow posted:I'm not through this book yet, only just started, but so far I just wanna say, Leo is such a dumb motherfucker who acts like a sullen child more often than not. Sadly, the advice 'Be Gay, Do Crimes' was only half followed by Leo, thus leading to his downfall. Interesting that they never mentioned what happened to Glaward and Jurand after they were caught, that's got to come back into it in book 3. Also enjoyed that even the glimpse into Antaup's POV during the battle heavily hinted at him swinging a sword for the other team too. Leo And The Boys, so gay they all became soldiers together instead of just loving. a shitty king fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Sep 21, 2020 |
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Sep 20, 2020 21:53
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a lovely king posted:Sadly, the advice 'Be Gay, Do Crimes' was only half followed by Leo and thus failed. I am honestly a little suspicious they never even mentioned what happened to Glauward and Ja Lol at editing spoilers into this but not fixing the copy/paste double paragraph
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Sep 20, 2020 23:59
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Re: Leo and the Boys: Glaward and Jurand were probably just kicked out of the boys club. They're nobles and friends so it's not like Leo could (or would) just execute them without the whole thing being common knowledge. I'm sure they're there to be in the mix with the dishonored and broken Governor of Angland.
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Sep 21, 2020 02:29
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:Re: Leo and the Boys: Glaward and Jurand were probably just kicked out of the boys club. They're nobles and friends so it's not like Leo could (or would) just execute them without the whole thing being common knowledge. It’s really the tragedy of the story. He really has some great friends and he just keeps getting them killed.
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Sep 21, 2020 06:20
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Pike's plan is kind of absurd though. He had to figure that Leo would join the rebellion, account for Savine joining him, and account for them deciding a good way to help their cause would be to arm the Breakers, and account for someone in their employee having enough connections with the Breakers to arm them properly. Or did he just see an opportunity and improvise through all the stuff that was going on, always planning on an uprising at some point? It's just Leo gave them that opportunity sooner and better armed?
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Sep 21, 2020 15:32
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I'm guessing the Breakers will wind up winning, based solely on the title of the third book and Rikke's book 1 prophecy (the "owl" that will eat Orso the lamb being the representation of the "crowd's" wisdom, so the monarchy falls to communism or whatever... but no idea whether that'll turn out to be a co-opted thing with Bayaz/Khalul/Yulwei/whoever as the Stalin). Also question on Shenkt: had we been told his first name is Casamir before? And did anyone find that they were REALLY laying on the old King Casamir references (where I seem to recall in previous books it was all Herod this and Herod that, this one everyone is looking up to Casamir). Is Shenkt not a former magi apprentice (we never see him do magic, just Eater superpowers) but a former puppet king?
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Sep 21, 2020 16:02
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The second one. He's clearly been planning a revolution for a while, saw a chance and seized it. He didn't plan for the civil war, but it was simply too good opportunity to miss. When they got weapons from the rebels it must have felt like divine providence. He got really, really lucky this time is what I'm getting at. Must have felt real nice, since their planned Valbeck insurrection in the last book went tits up because unbeknownst to them Orso had raised a new army with Savine's money which was just about to embark to the North, which instead moved to quash the uprising before it could spread.
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Sep 21, 2020 16:07
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thumper57 posted:I'm guessing the Breakers will wind up winning, based solely on the title of the third book and Rikke's book 1 prophecy (the "owl" that will eat Orso the lamb being the representation of the "crowd's" wisdom, so the monarchy falls to communism or whatever... but no idea whether that'll turn out to be a co-opted thing with Bayaz/Khalul/Yulwei/whoever as the Stalin). It's first alluded to when Yoru and Shenkt meet in Best Served Cold. Shenkt is both a former apprentice who trained around the same time as Yoru, and a former puppet king.
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Sep 21, 2020 16:59
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thumper57 posted:Also question on Shenkt: had we been told his first name is Casamir before? And did anyone find that they were REALLY laying on the old King Casamir references (where I seem to recall in previous books it was all Herod this and Herod that, this one everyone is looking up to Casamir). Is Shenkt not a former magi apprentice (we never see him do magic, just Eater superpowers) but a former puppet king? We only ever heard him referred to as 'Cas' by Shylo in BSC and he was noted as speaking with a faint Union accent. Shenkt implicitly states he used to be an apprentice to Bayaz "Once, long ago". It was a pretty widely accepted theory that Shenkt=Casimir before this book came out and when asked about it during a Reddit AMA Joe replied "MAYBE."
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Sep 21, 2020 17:08
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I wonder about Rikke. its obvious that she’s lost her long eye powers right? She’s just bullshitting people while at the same time being a sharp cookie?
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Sep 21, 2020 19:39
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I just reread Heroes and “poke, poke, poke” is now one of the most chilling things I have read in fiction.
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Sep 21, 2020 19:39
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Affi posted:I wonder about Rikke. its obvious that she’s lost her long eye powers right? She’s just bullshitting people while at the same time being a sharp cookie? The way I understood it she's kept her long eye at the expense of losing sight in her normal eye. Her visions never offered her straightforward answers as to what the future will bring though so she's definitely hamming it up with the I've Seen It talk. Beefeater1980 posted:I just reread Heroes and “poke, poke, poke” is now one of the most chilling things I have read in fiction. The end of the latest book is comparable I think...
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Sep 21, 2020 20:11
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Affi posted:I wonder about Rikke. its obvious that she’s lost her long eye powers right? She’s just bullshitting people while at the same time being a sharp cookie? Maybe, but she was right about whatshisface on water
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Sep 21, 2020 20:13
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Affi posted:I wonder about Rikke. its obvious that she’s lost her long eye powers right? She’s just bullshitting people while at the same time being a sharp cookie? No the opposite if anything. She has her left eye still, that's the Long Eye. She made the choice to lose her "normal" eye out up in the high places. She might not be a PoV again now her powers seem to have become stable and her old personality has been kinda cast aside. The Rikke we saw in the PoV chapters is probably mostly gone, she is permanently seeing the world like that first scene from the movie Lord of War, no need for the fits. When Leo and Savine make her their offer, I think the implication from her trippy Long Eye scenes is that she instantly sees the past and future of the deal, she sees Savine plans to betray her, and she sees the future where she fucks them both over and her people gain from it, so she just does it. It's not even a decision to make, and she doesn't need to scheme or plan, it's something she already "did". Where her bullshitting comes in is that Caurib told her the real power of her visions is she can say whatever she wants now and people will take her at her word. She has real visions but her explanations of them to other characters will be suspect. Compare that to when she was just blurting out prophecies after a fit and thoughtlessly changing events around her ("The Lion ate the Wolf"). Brendan Rodgers fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Sep 21, 2020 |
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Sep 21, 2020 20:14
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God things look so hilariously dire for Leo.
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Sep 22, 2020 13:46
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:God things look so hilariously dire for Leo. I imagined this book was pretty much the end of his story...?
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Sep 22, 2020 14:37
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Suxpool posted:I imagined this book was pretty much the end of his story...? Nah, he got spared while also being horribly maimed. That's pure 'Glokta redemption arc" material for the third book.
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Sep 22, 2020 15:26
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Suxpool posted:I imagined this book was pretty much the end of his story...? His whole personality was built on being a cavalier and physically powerful young man of bold action. His bold action resulted in him becoming a disgraced cripple riddled with both real and phantom pain. He's still the governor of Angland, so presuming he isn't left to rot in a prison cell, he can look forward to returning with thousands of dead and broken men who all have families and that's on him. Angland still owes the Union a shitload of money that he already spent on his broken army. He'll have to find that money elsewhere in Angland, which will suck for the smallfolk and will also be on him. Assuming Sabine stays with him she'll resent the poo poo out of him, but she's way to selfish and broken to do that. Even if she doesn't start loving Orso again, Leo, not being privy to the incest secret, will assume she has. He'll be left with his mother, who told him not to gently caress up his life, and his gay crush who would have told him not to gently caress up his life but couldn't because he was shunned for being gay (and now he has a boyfriend). The rope was a kindness. https://youtu.be/y3KEhWTnWvE Chef Boyardeez Nuts fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Sep 22, 2020 |
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Sep 22, 2020 15:30
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I thought his sentence was life imprisonment? They're not gonna let him still be governor? I assume when things go to poo poo as the Breakers/Burners attack, he'll be needed for some reason and released.
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Sep 22, 2020 15:47
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Ccs posted:I thought his sentence was life imprisonment? They're not gonna let him still be governor? I assume when things go to poo poo as the Breakers/Burners attack, he'll be needed for some reason and released. Oh, you're right, so all that stuff and a prison cell. Chef Boyardeez Nuts fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Sep 22, 2020 |
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Sep 22, 2020 15:49
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He's clearly Glotka 2.0
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Sep 22, 2020 16:57
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My sincere hope that the subversion here is we see what Glotka would be like without intelligence or introspection.
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Sep 22, 2020 17:12
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Yeah, I'm excited to see what book 3 holds. Leo and Stour are in a tight spot right now, and we all know that Joe doesn't let the sun shine for too long on characters.
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Sep 22, 2020 17:35
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Yeah the parallels to Glokta are obvious but I'd rather thought that getting life imprisonment for high treason would probably also go with forfeiting all lands and titles.
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Sep 22, 2020 19:13
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LeavingLeo nominally in charge means leaving Finree functionally in charge which feels like a best case scenario, tbh.
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Sep 22, 2020 19:58
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I really thought they where gonna cut something else off Stour, still drat that made me wince, guess that's him crippled for life now too. And drat Rikke that's cold, but honestly I can't say I feel much sympathy for Leo or Savine. Pike came out of nowhere for me.
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Sep 23, 2020 07:19
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As of now I think (spoilers for latest book): Orso is the most sympathetic character; he’s likeable, intelligent and not all that vengeful by the standards of the setting. Unfortunately he’s almost certainly going to be shafted by the burners at the start of the next book, but maybe he can survive it at least. Leo might physically be Glokta 2.0 but he’s not mentally even close by himself. With Savine, however, he is. So if she somehow stays aligned with him and he has learned to listen to her and his mother, it could still be a good package deal. I don’t buy Pike as the true leader of the burners. Either it’s Glokta 1.0 behind them running a long con on Bayaz, or it’s Shenkt or some other wizard, or it’s Bayaz himself trying to identify and murder everyone who might stand in the way of his glorious industrial revolution / force remove the monarchy and then push a puppet government into the vacuum. The owl is the symbol of wisdom, and IIRC one of Bayaz’s titles is the First of the Wise. No idea what’s in store for Rikke in the north. Revenge against Calder probably but what then? Overall JA has left the series in a very interesting place and I’m very excited to see Pike speedrun the Muenster rebellion, 1848 and the Russian Revolution all at once.
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Sep 23, 2020 08:12
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From the Glokta short story in Sharp Ends, covering him at his very peak when he volunteers to take some cavalry to hold off the entire Gurkish army, he was nothing like the Glokta we know either.
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Sep 23, 2020 10:01
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glokta’s disfigurement wasnt from being defeated in battle, though. he was tortured by the gurkish for who knows how long. there are definitely parallels to be drawn between him and leo but i dont expect similar results
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Sep 23, 2020 13:28
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scary ghost dog posted:glokta’s disfigurement wasnt from being defeated in battle, though. he was tortured by the gurkish for who knows how long. there are definitely parallels to be drawn between him and leo but i dont expect similar results Well his leg wound and hatred of stairs was from battle
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Sep 23, 2020 14:06
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