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Kaiser Mazoku posted:Thanks to this thread I found out Kender exist and me and my wife had a pretty intense discussion on how to make them workable. Long story short, make them a society of quasi-monastic hobbits who give out and accept things freely, since they have no concept of ownership but realize that other people do. Everyone else likes them not because they're cute or whatever but because they're genuinely nice and good people. You can still have the thieving griefer Kender but make it so that they got kicked out by the other Kender and are widely disliked by everyone. And the fear immunity comes from philosophical practices, not being too stupid to be afraid. Still verging uncomfortably on the "mono-culture" race, but it makes more sense than the official setting. Come to think of it, that makes them the anti-dragon; preaching a philosophy of generosity and freedom from possessions/status. (Another reason to make them immune to fear, at least a dragon's fear aura.) On the other hand, this is coming up with an idea and fleshing it out properly, not throwing up convoluted explanations for some crappy comic relief character the authors/players like too much.
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Sep 22, 2020 21:42
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Cobalt-60 posted:Still verging uncomfortably on the "mono-culture" race that's when you introduce regular old Tolkieny hobbits as well and suddenly you can have nations, ideologies, cultures, and mixed interactions
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Sep 22, 2020 21:43
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That's why we agreed they should be a society instead of a race. They'd basically still be hobbits but their clan/village/family/whatever name is Kender. On another note, we both agreed that the "no sense of self preservation" is dumb as gently caress and makes no sense for any sapient race. If a dragon came after them, they'd take all measures to protect their own lives, but if the worst that happens is their village burns down, they shrug and rebuild. Kaiser Mazoku fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Sep 22, 2020 |
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Sep 22, 2020 21:48
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Kaiser Mazoku posted:Thanks to this thread I found out Kender exist and me and my wife had a pretty intense discussion on how to make them workable. Long story short, make them a society of quasi-monastic hobbits who give out and accept things freely, since they have no concept of ownership but realize that other people do. Everyone else likes them not because they're cute or whatever but because they're genuinely nice and good people. You can still have the thieving griefer Kender but make it so that they got kicked out by the other Kender and are widely disliked by everyone. so you made the kenders non-kenders, that's a working solution
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Sep 22, 2020 22:40
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every dan simmons book ive ever tried to read has just been him tiresomely jacking himself off about history and classic literature like drat dude, you read keats? good job man i tried reading ilium but it starts out with a history teacher being reconstructed by godlike AIs who look like the greek gods, and aphrodite has magic pheremones that give him a huge boner the whole time he is talking to her. i just didnt give a poo poo at that point. if i want grand scale sci fi i prefer alastair reynolds. chasm city is one of my favourite SF books ever.
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Sep 22, 2020 22:55
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Replace Kenders with Ken Penders
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Sep 22, 2020 23:08
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The Moon Monster posted:I enjoyed the Three Body books but there's some stuff in there that would seem downright sad puppy-ish if it came from the western sf scene. For example (major spoilers)Earth is targeted for invasion by an advanced alien species, but devises a mutually assured destruction scheme to keep them from attacking. In response the aliens, under the guise of cultural/scientific exchange, set to work feminizing all of humanity. It gets to the point where someone from our time wouldn't even be able to distinguish men from women, and the only "real men" left were ones who are/had been in cryo-sleep. Eventually it's time to elect a new MAD button presser to take over for the guy who came up with the system and is getting very old. The now-feminized humans elect the hapless female POV character rather than one of a posse of unfrozen Men Who Get Things Done. She fucks up within seconds of assuming the job and the invasion is back on. Yeah but he also says that the female protagonist basically did a justifiable thing, but that the situation was extremely hosed and it wouldn't have mattered in the end anyways because there are always more advanced aliens who want to kill you. Also the 20th century male solution was to go rogue and kill everyone who disagreed with their authoritarian ways, which probably wasn't going to end well either. I agree that the gendered descriptions are real hamfisted but I'm not sure Liu makes a clear stand that one gender is superior, just that humanity's morality and institutions are doomed to failure but flawed morality and hope are still better than none at all. Has this thread actually talked about Xanth yet? What a bizarre franchise. I read a bunch (way too many) Xanth books as a tween and it's funny to look back at it now and realize how fitting that it all took place in fantasy Florida. At least Piers Anthony seems like a real good dude from that This American Life story.
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Sep 22, 2020 23:19
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Akbar posted:Yeah but he also says that the female protagonist basically did a justifiable thing, but that the situation was extremely hosed and it wouldn't have mattered in the end anyways because there are always more advanced aliens who want to kill you. Also the 20th century male solution was to go rogue and kill everyone who disagreed with their authoritarian ways, which probably wasn't going to end well either. I agree that the gendered descriptions are real hamfisted but I'm not sure Liu makes a clear stand that one gender is superior, just that humanity's morality and institutions are doomed to failure but flawed morality and hope are still better than none at all. I think in that particular situation pushing the MAD button was absolutely the right thing to do since that space ship ends up doing it anyway and it buys humanity a few more centuries rather than being subjected to an Australian cannibal holocaust. I guess yeah that universe was always doomed but that's kinda like saying you're just going to die some day so why bother getting out of bed. The female POV character mostly just gets dragged around by events put into motion by various male characters (aside from the alien contact/invasion, I suppose) and it ends up working out basically ok for her. Like she inherits some mega corporation and Mr Getsshitdone says "put me in charge and we'll create FTL technology". She does, and he almost does, but in the end she chickens out and tells him not to. But then when the solar system is about to be destroyed whoops looks like he actually did anyway so she's saved!
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Sep 22, 2020 23:40
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As a kid I thought Margaret Weiss and Tracy Hickman were a closeted lesbian couple based on nothing but their names and my stupidity. I just got the first Dragonlance novel on Audible recently and I just can't listen to it, it's so bad. What was young, dumb, me thinking?
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Sep 22, 2020 23:43
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I guess the impression I got from the author was they consider the feminine to be superior and the 'hard men of the old world' to be murderous aberrants - the issue didn't seem to be 'more feminine is bad' but 'over-reliance on constant information flow is making the post-Sophon humans infantile'
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Sep 22, 2020 23:44
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Cobalt-60 posted:
The best Terry Pratchett reading order is "as you find them at secondhand bookstores and thrift shops". I started with Hogfather because the peppermint swirl cover caught my eye.
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Sep 22, 2020 23:50
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Black August posted:I guess the impression I got from the author was they consider the feminine to be superior and the 'hard men of the old world' to be murderous aberrants - the issue didn't seem to be 'more feminine is bad' but 'over-reliance on constant information flow is making the post-Sophon humans infantile' Maybe that's what he intended, but he expresses humans becoming more infantile by having them become feminized. The trisolarans flood human culture with gynoids and chick flicks until human men are indistinguishable from women and human society is unable to defend itself. This is directly contrasted to unthawed 21st century men who are conveniently always hanging after the timeskips and save humanity from annihilation on multiple occasions. Well postpone annihilation anyway. I'm not saying the book is Chinese Victoria or anything but there's some serious sexism on display. (which is common as dirt in western SF as well, of course)
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Sep 22, 2020 23:58
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juggalo baby coffin posted:every dan simmons book ive ever tried to read has just been him tiresomely jacking himself off about history and classic literature
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Sep 23, 2020 06:22
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BattleMaster posted:Replace Kenders with Ken Penders I made a very sad sound that I can't transliterate. I think kender work more as an rpg mechanic than compelling book characters. Because of this thread I've thought of how I'd handle one were I running a game/building a world. I remember them being described as not often even aware they had filched something. So, I'd essentially build it into the world that the party members likely know the dangers of having them around, and that they would simply just be a culture that didn't get the whole personal property thing, as they would personally just share their own resources. Because of the lil fingats that seem to think for themselves, I'd have the player roll a dice at the end of a session or just every so often to see what they'd picked up. It could be a fun extra for the character, something that could cause trouble, or a really really easy way for me to plant a plot hook on someone. "And now you find a jade statue of a dragon. It looks like the one that was in the wizard's office! But I bet it's nothing, right?" "That signet ring was totally planted on you!" Of course, this would be a thing I spoke to all players on, and would make sure everyone was okay with. Otherwise, why do it? I might make it a thing where pcs just don't get stolen from, or, if they're ok, maybe they do a good-natured shakedown of the lil guy at the end of every session. Have some items that are just immune, etc. I can see how it could be cute and fun, but if it got annoying or caused trouble, we'd drop it. Depends on the group and what they want.
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Sep 23, 2020 06:32
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Uncle Lloyd posted:Have I got a loving book for you, it’s called “The Library at Mount Char” by Scott Hawkins and it is a really really good standalone novel. Hard to describe, vaguely similar setting as American Gods (centered around deities of a sort in contemporary America), but way more off the wall and way better. this is the book that I keep trying to make people read. I guess it's hit or miss with people but I loving loved it, I don't usually revisit things and I've read it 4 times. not too long and it's so, so cool. probably my favorite new thing I've read in like, 5 years. it's not like anything else. The Breakfast Sampler fucked around with this message at 07:33 on Sep 23, 2020 |
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Sep 23, 2020 07:14
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Took me a helluva time to catch up with the thread, so I'm belatedly joining in on Spider Robinson. Robinson was huge in SF in the 70s to 80s and wrote some quite decent stuff (the novella of Stardance, later turned into a less impressive full-length book). But then there was Callahan's Crosstime Salon, a sprawling collection of stories and books. I figure it emerged writing from a lot of quick stories for magazines, where he could regularly write any sort of story and just set it at this one bar. Featuring: * Everyone in the series is traumatized, a survivor with a dark past, who has overcome it. The narrator always reminds the reader that he's at the bar because he changed his own car brakes to save money, resulting in his wife dying in a fiery accident. Fans on Usenet would regularly joke about how pain and suffering will only make you stronger. * Aliens invade earth (multiple times) and are stopped by the decency and cleverness of the bar customers. I recall one lot of aliens stopping to comment how cool and empathetic everyone there is. Another time a killer robot shows up and decides to abandon it's mission and just become another barfly. * The "youngster" (you get the idea that the main characters and Robinson himself are aging hippies) who was shooting up drugs but the love of the drinkers at the bar saves him and he's added to the cast. * Somewhere in there, Robinson wrote a book about Callahan's wife, who inevitably runs a brothel where the same sort of stories take place. And instead of drinking, it's sex that fixes everything. Even fans thought this was pushing things a little far. * In between all the tales of trauma, it periodically descended into dad jokes and pun-fests. What was it about all those old authors and puns?
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Sep 23, 2020 11:14
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nothing is more therapeutic than alcoholism
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Sep 23, 2020 11:31
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Black August posted:yeah I have no illusions of making writing money unless it's writing the slush trash and smut for a little extra spending. reading more is what I'm trying to work on now, last thing I got through was the excellent Southern Reach trilogy, and that's RIGHT up the alley of stuff I've always enjoyed writing myself. that, and the Three Body Problem books. vandermeer's stuff is great, highly recommend Borne and the rest of the books in that universe (the strange bird and dead astronauts) also city of saints and madmen is a lot of fun thinking back, i think the southern reach trilogy is my least favorite of his books (but it's still good)
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Sep 23, 2020 11:55
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DicktheCat posted:I made a very sad sound that I can't transliterate. Its like wild magic, but for rogues
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Sep 23, 2020 11:59
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The Breakfast Sampler posted:this is the book that I keep trying to make people read. I guess it's hit or miss with people but I loving loved it, I don't usually revisit things and I've read it 4 times. not too long and it's so, so cool. probably my favorite new thing I've read in like, 5 years. it's not like anything else. A common complaint I've seen from people who don't like it is that they find the ex-military guy unrealistic. Which is weird because he's barely in the book.
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Sep 23, 2020 13:30
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muscles like this! posted:A common complaint I've seen from people who don't like it is that they find the ex-military guy unrealistic. Which is weird because he's barely in the book. I believe he had i input from at least one friend in service.
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Sep 23, 2020 13:35
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A kender, wild mage, paladin, and a chaotic neutral psionic walk into a tavern.
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Sep 23, 2020 13:39
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that's a very limited multiclass.
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Sep 23, 2020 13:48
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It’s my ORIGINAL CHARACTER DO NOT STEAL
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Sep 23, 2020 13:56
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twistedmentat posted:What's the name of that super poorly written fantasy story that the writer seems to think they can't use the same word twice? Lords of Argon or something? Eye of Argon almost doesn't belong in this thread because the writing is so fundamentally awful it's almost a transcendent reading experience.
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Sep 23, 2020 14:45
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Eye of Argon is just another mediocre Conan ripoff; the only thing that makes it interesting is that (presumably because the author realized this and wanted to be Different), they ruthlessly plundered a thesaurus, then re-wrot every sentence to be as purple/stilted as possible. And failed.
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Sep 23, 2020 16:37
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https://twitter.com/athenogenes/status/1308428040318353408?s=20
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Sep 23, 2020 17:36
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I'll post something here in the lazy but not very pervy vein: LE Modessit Jr Have you read one of his books? Congrats you've now read them all.
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Sep 23, 2020 18:42
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Stealing that for my next d&d campaign.
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Sep 23, 2020 19:02
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I think that's the story with the rich guy who buys a fantasy land, right?
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Sep 23, 2020 19:11
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muscles like this! posted:A common complaint I've seen from people who don't like it is that they find the ex-military guy unrealistic. Which is weird because he's barely in the book. huh, I guess I could see that but I don't think he's supposed to be realistic, he's like a paradigm of his characteristics. anyway, I was a big fan. (sorry to derail by talking about things I didn't hate.) speaking of things I did kinda hate, and this will be popular: Malazan Book of the Fallen. okay, it's a mixed bag, but it's also kind of a confusing mess. some cool ideas (I thought the cavemen were cool), some gross poo poo (like, everything with that Conan dude.) I dunno. I read the main ones because I found them compelling and was recovering from surgery but also kind of ick. and I think they're way, way too long. The Breakfast Sampler fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Sep 23, 2020 |
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Sep 23, 2020 19:30
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i'm taking a bit of a break from memories of ice, i felt i read about three consecutive chapters of various characters reminding each other of what the plot was
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Sep 23, 2020 20:21
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Scaramouche posted:I'll post something here in the lazy but not very pervy vein: That’s good to know. I read The Magic of Recluse and liked it, but could never get into the second one in that series. I don’t think I ever tried reading anything else of his.
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Sep 23, 2020 21:17
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Cobalt-60 posted:Eye of Argon is just another mediocre Conan ripoff; the only thing that makes it interesting is that (presumably because the author realized this and wanted to be Different), they ruthlessly plundered a thesaurus, then re-wrot every sentence to be as purple/stilted as possible. And failed. The author of EoA had been identified. I think he wrote it when he was 16? He was pretty defensive about the story. But you have to chuckle at lines like "a many fauceted scarlet emerald".
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Sep 23, 2020 21:20
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Cloacamazing! posted:I think that's the story with the rich guy who buys a fantasy land, right? Yeah, it is a guy who is looking through a book of rich people crap and sees a listing for "Magic Kingdom for Sale" and discovers that it actually is a magical kingdom and he's now the king. It is very much not supposed to be super realistic. He ends up with the problem where he doesn't get any kind of instructions on how the magic pendant that makes him king actually works.
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Sep 23, 2020 21:30
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Yeah that map is fine for the story it wants to tell. IMO the truly bad fantasy maps are the ones where someone sits down to create a world for their magical fantasy epic where anything can exist and anything can happen, and then they places markers labelled "Dwarven Mountain Fortress", "Halfling Town", "Elven Treetop Village", "Goblin Encampment", etc. on it.
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Sep 23, 2020 21:41
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It's honestly bewildering to me that some people really, really care about their fantasyland geography. I barely ever gave them a glance even as a kid when I was more invested in that poo poo. Did fantasy novels even have maps before Tolkien? (notable exception are the WORLD OF KAMANDI maps which are pure and good and rise above the dross of this foul world, but it's a comic so doesn't count)
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Sep 23, 2020 21:54
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drat horror queefs posted:It's honestly bewildering to me that some people really, really care about their fantasyland geography. I barely ever gave them a glance even as a kid when I was more invested in that poo poo. it's another excuse for overeducated losers with no love or life to show you that you're Dumb, and they're Smart, because they know that your climate would be IMPOSSIBLE with the position of the mountains and coastline
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Sep 23, 2020 21:59
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I personally do not give a poo poo about maps in books. Most of the time you see it before you have any context and I'm not going to flip back to the front of the book to look something up.
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Sep 23, 2020 22:04
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But you see there's being a writer, and there's being in love with the idea of being a writer. And if you're the latter and can't be bothered to actually write, then planning down every last detail of the setting in excruciating detail is a great way to pass the time. (Don't get me wrong, I'm 100% the latter)
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Sep 23, 2020 22:22
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