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Ah hell, I have a test drive scheduled for Friday. New 2020 Bolt LT in Kinetic Blue Metallic, Comfort/Convenience package, Driver Confidence 1 and 2 packages, DCFC, $26600 On one hand it feels super weird buying a new car only two years after my Volt, but on the other I've been ready to ditch this gas engine since the first week I've owned it
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Sep 21, 2020 21:46
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| # ? May 28, 2024 06:41 |
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:they made A Truck technically i guess As in they made a truck shaped object capable of rolling down a hill after being towed to the top of it, yeah. The worlds largest hand truck.
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Sep 21, 2020 21:56
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nah they had a later powered thing that actually drove and they made a couple of them
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Sep 21, 2020 22:06
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Truly Nikola has proved the short sellers wrong and restored market confidence in their company by... uh... having their founder and chairman resign in disgrace. For luls let's look at GM's 8-K filing with the SEC on September 8th. Highlighting is mine: Item 8.01 Other Events. On September 8, 2020, General Motors Company (“GM”) and Nikola Corporation (“Nikola”) announced GM’s strategic investment in Nikola. Under the terms of the investment agreements, GM will receive $2 billion in Nikola common stock, representing an 11% ownership stake, in exchange for certain in-kind contributions to Nikola, including engineering and manufacturing services and providing Nikola with access to GM’s global safety-tested and validated parts and components. GM will also have the right to nominate one director to Nikola’s board of directors beginning at Nikola’s 2021 annual meeting of stockholders. GM will be responsible for engineering, homologating, validating, and manufacturing the Nikola Badger. Nikola will be responsible for the sales and marketing for the Badger and will retain the Nikola Badger brand. In addition, GM will provide engineering services to integrate its hydrogen fuel cellsystem into Nikola’s Class 7/8 semi trucks. GM will also be the exclusive hydrogen fuel cell system supplier to Nikola for Class 7/8 semi trucks outside of Europe, subject to certain time and performance requirements. The investment is subject to customary regulatory approvals. A copy of the related press release is attached hereto as Exhibit 99.1 Yuns fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Sep 21, 2020 |
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Sep 21, 2020 23:07
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Heh, now there's a class action lawsuit against them
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Sep 21, 2020 23:09
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Endymion FRS MK1 posted:Ah hell, I have a test drive scheduled for Friday. New 2020 Bolt LT in Kinetic Blue Metallic, Comfort/Convenience package, Driver Confidence 1 and 2 packages, DCFC, $26600 That’s a lot of car for egolf/leaf money.
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Sep 22, 2020 00:58
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sanchez posted:That’s a lot of car for egolf/leaf money. It certainly seemed like it. I have a question for anyone that has road tripped with a Bolt though. I see it's DCFC is "slow". Is it really that big of a problem? Next year's Bolt will have faster charging and that got me hesitating a bit. It seems like it won't be a problem though, I rarely make long trips that'd require it
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Sep 22, 2020 05:31
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Endymion FRS MK1 posted:It certainly seemed like it. I have a question for anyone that has road tripped with a Bolt though. I see it's DCFC is "slow". Is it really that big of a problem? Next year's Bolt will have faster charging and that got me hesitating a bit. It seems like it won't be a problem though, I rarely make long trips that'd require it If you rarely make long trips it's not a big problem no. Lower charging power saves on the battery life as well. Forgive me if you've already said so, but is the price a really good deal? EVs will be like phones and computers for a while now, next one is going to have better specs. So if they are close in price it's better to get the newer, if it's a good deal and not do important features, get the cheaper.
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Sep 22, 2020 05:42
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Endymion FRS MK1 posted:It certainly seemed like it. I have a question for anyone that has road tripped with a Bolt though. I see it's DCFC is "slow". Is it really that big of a problem? Next year's Bolt will have faster charging and that got me hesitating a bit. It seems like it won't be a problem though, I rarely make long trips that'd require it I was under the impression the 2021 Bolt EV wasn't getting an upgrade to its battery or charging, just a brand new interior and a new outer fascia. IMO people really overblow the "slow" factor online, and I've seen more and more people on other sites act like 150 kW is suddenly unbearable. Many forget only a year or two ago, that was the fastest any Tesla could peak supercharge at. If you are stopping only a couple times to charge, it's NBD, though it can add up once you're doing a 4 digit number of miles. Take a break to stretch your legs, catch up on messages, SA threads, reddit, whatever, get some food, and you're ready to get on the road again. Leaving with 100% charge also makes a huge difference if you can cut out a charging stop. The problem we run into with ours is finding broken chargers or chargers that won't let the car charge at max rate. Where my parents live, there is one CCS charger in the entire town that caps out around 19 kW, and since then has been dispensing a little closer to 11 kW according to plugshare. We take my Volt now for that trip (about 220 miles each way), especially in the winter. That charger being slow added almost two hours onto a four hour trip one time. The CCS network is the problem really in my experience, not the car. Realistically we spend 30-45 minutes at a charger (best/worst case, not counting the 19 kW one above). ABRP is your friend. Endymion FRS MK1 posted:On one hand it feels super weird buying a new car only two years after my Volt, but on the other I've been ready to ditch this gas engine since the first week I've owned it As someone a little over a year and a half into Volt ownership, this is a huge mood. I can't wait to get a BEV at the end of my lease.
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Sep 22, 2020 05:48
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Ola posted:If you rarely make long trips it's not a big problem no. Lower charging power saves on the battery life as well. Forgive me if you've already said so, but is the price a really good deal? EVs will be like phones and computers for a while now, next one is going to have better specs. So if they are close in price it's better to get the newer, if it's a good deal and not do important features, get the cheaper. It is, I think. $26,600 for a brand new LT with every available option Westy543 posted:I was under the impression the 2021 Bolt EV wasn't getting an upgrade to its battery or charging, just a brand new interior and a new outer fascia. I watched an Alex on Autos review of the 2020 model, he mentioned it'll have 75kw vs the current 50kw. It was a good review but it got annoying constantly recommending the Kona or Niro. I've heard they're great but I'm pretty sure I can't even buy one. And yeah I love the Volt but there's always that tiny resentment when I notice the gas gauge. Studying my driving habits and when and where I take long trips has clued me into the fact that "only" 250 miles of range is perfectly fine. As well as seeing Electrify America everywhere made me feel more comfortable about not having access to Tesla's Supercharger network Endymion FRS MK1 fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Sep 22, 2020 |
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Sep 22, 2020 06:08
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That's a problem I've never had with mine. But then my other vehicles each get in the low teens mpg, so the Volt's engine is still pretty drat efficient in my eyes.
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Sep 22, 2020 06:32
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Endymion FRS MK1 posted:It is, I think. $26,600 for a brand new LT with every available option Not a big difference, it will only be at the lowest end of the charging curve so it's definitely worth going for the good deal. Going by some quick googling it looks like the battery got an upgrade for 2020 as well.
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Sep 22, 2020 08:22
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Murkyhumor posted:My current car of six years finally died, i was planning on replacing it next year so I went ahead with just buying a new one. I'd been looking at the Kona EV since last year, and was waiting for it to show up in Washington state. I got lucky and the Hyundai dealer like 10 minutes from my house had a bunch they'd gotten by snagging some from the Oregon allotment. My commute is about 40 miles per day with a 140 mile road trip once a year. There's a 120v chargepoint station at work, and my apartment building is letting me move parking spots so I can use a wall outlet for no cost. Plus i'm super close to a electrify america DC fast charger, so I feel pretty secure in being able to charge it. Very late, but I wanted to say thanks for bringing this up when you did. We'd been looking at electrics to replace my wife's aging Corolla when it finally died, and the Kona had been high on our lists. Test drove one from the same dealer (they're the only one in the state who had any, as I understand they sold out of them in two weeks) and she fell in love with it immediately. So far it's been great. Fun to drive, the mini-crossover is about the right size, excellent electronics and drive aid package. over 200 miles of range when charging to 80%, and I worked out we're paying ~3 cents/mile while home charging. We did have one issue with the Electrify America DCFC network billing, something about the vehicle confusing the chargers about how many KW the car can take, but now that they've switched to KWh-based pricing that's been fixed.
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Sep 22, 2020 21:53
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Update on my Bolt process, one dealership I was looking at originally is offering me the same blue optioned out Bolt for 26,100, and as their black one that was my backup. This stupid thing keeps getting more tempting as I go
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Sep 22, 2020 23:50
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Surprised no one posted a summary of Tesla battery day, so I'll do my best to relay that minus Elon Bullshit Filter; Tesla has a path to batteries with +54% range est, 56% less $/kWh, and are planning to introduce a 25k USD EV eventually, maybe in "about 3 years." (so 5-6 years) The majority focus was on battery cell manufacturing and scaling, probably boring nerd poo poo if you're not a chemist like me. The battery stuff was super cool. They have come up with a new 4680 lithium ion cell for semi and cybertruck. They talked about varying cathode chemistry: Model 3, new car, and power packs will be pushed towards "high cycle" batteries. Model Y, X, and S are "long range" batteries, and will share batteries with powerwall units. Semi and cybertruck will be getting the new 4680 batteries and are "mass sensitive" vehicles. These aren't expected to hit any serious production until 2022 at the earliest. They've got a clear path to 7x capacity at Giga Nevada based on improvements at a pilot line in Fremont, which will be producing 10 GWh of batteries when complete next year (giga nevada is like 20-30 GWh). They also showed off the new Model Y giga cast thingy, kinda cool. Take these numbers with a grain of salt. Plaid Model S will be available late next year, tri motor awd, advertised with 200 mph top speed, <2 second 0-60, <9 second quarter mile, $140k. They did a lap at leguna seca in 1:30.3. Also they said they expect a full global transition to sustainable energy in 15-25 years, which honestly is incredibly depressing. That's so long. 😰 Westy543 fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Sep 23, 2020 |
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Sep 23, 2020 03:04
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Westy543 posted:
I dont doubt those claims (still want to see video!) but it would be interesting to see how repeatable they are back to back. Lets see em pull those quarters back to back like a Taycan
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Sep 23, 2020 03:23
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You're only gonna pull that number once at a nhra strip before getting ejected tho, so repeatability isn't a concern. 
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Sep 23, 2020 03:29
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I wonder how long the tires even last at that rate
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Sep 23, 2020 03:35
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:I dont doubt those claims (still want to see video!) but it would be interesting to see how repeatable they are back to back. Lets see em pull those quarters back to back like a Taycan Ya no. I really like Tesla, but Porsche will loving slay it in the repeatability department. When they benchmarked the Taycan, it’s very clear that they placed a pretty high value on “be able to hotlap it like a Porsche.” Thing might not be quite as quick or as fast as a P100D+, but it’s an equally impressive achievement. Elmnt80 posted:You're only gonna pull that number once at a nhra strip before getting ejected tho, so repeatability isn't a concern. 
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Sep 23, 2020 03:53
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Elmnt80 posted:You're only gonna pull that number once at a nhra strip before getting ejected tho, so repeatability isn't a concern. So you would need a cage and race suit to hot lap? Blatantly stolen from the Tech Nightmare thread in D&D https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-q2-2020-us-auto-exports/ Tesla are 1/3rd of all car exports from the USA now.
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Sep 23, 2020 04:57
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Nice summary, Westy543. I didn't catch that the new cell were for those vehicles only. Hopefully they will update some of the existing ones with them. A compact version would be interesting, steal the layout from the VW ID3.
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Sep 23, 2020 05:45
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Blatantly stolen from the Tech Nightmare thread in D&D Tesla says they are, would be interested in seeing that independently verified. But also...when you look at the landscape, is it that surprising? GM outside the US are generally produced locally; Ford is the same; Chrysler has a smaller export footprint outside of Jeep; and most of the exports are likely the non-American brands that produce in the States (eg BMW and Mercedes SUVs).
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Sep 23, 2020 07:12
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:So you would need a cage and race suit to hot lap? From the nhra documentation, running 10.000 or higher, you will need: Steel valve stems (most tpms sensors are aluminum or rubber) Jacket meeting SFI 3.2A/1 6 point roll bar, full cage if you break 135mph or alter the floor pan (breaking 135mph seems entirely in the realm of possibility here) SFI approved 16.1 harness Now when you break that 10.000 barrier, you need: NHRA Chassis Certification NHRA Competition License SFI Jacket and pants meeting 3.2A/5 SFI Neck C ollar and gloves meeting 3.3/1 Full face helmet meeting snell or SFI specs If you break 150mph, you now need a parachute and mounting that will pass tech The 10.999-10.000 bracket also makes a note that aftermarket axles and axle retainers are required, but I think this is more pointing to straight axle cars here than something with cv axles. Also, any u-joint equiped driveshaft must have a driveshaft retainer. But I'm unsure if tesla has that, and if they did I'd assume it would have a guibo/coupler instead of a u-joint. Possibly a bit more than a proper suit and helmet. You'd need a 2nd set of wheels unless you wanna swap on some bolt on tire valves trackside (A good excuse to swap on some slicks, because I thought we were going fuckin drag racing.  ) and the licensing which is going to be interesting to take a tesla through imo. If you break 150mph, you also need to mount a parachute and have a release for it. I think they have trailer hitch mounts, but I'm not sure how good an idea putting that kinda stress on the vehicle is. Or you just find a wildcat track out in the woods and watch as they proceed not to care.  Edit: https://st.hotrod.com/uploads/sites/21/2018/03/NHRA-Racing-Safety-Rules.pdf Elmnt80 fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Sep 23, 2020 |
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Sep 23, 2020 07:14
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harperdc posted:Tesla says they are, would be interested in seeing that independently verified. It might also be a bit off due to very low numbers. 68.000 cars exported in a quarter seems tiny, Tesla having a third of that is entirely plausible.
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Sep 23, 2020 08:56
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American cars do extremely poorly now compared to historical numbers, so it's no surprise.
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Sep 23, 2020 09:19
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Westy543 posted:Surprised no one posted a summary of Tesla battery day, so I'll do my best to relay that minus Elon Bullshit Filter; Tesla has a path to batteries with +54% range est, 56% less $/kWh, and are planning to introduce a 25k USD EV eventually, maybe in "about 3 years." (so 5-6 years) I have a hard time telling how plausible this stuff is, what do you think given you are qualified in this area? like: quote:These new tabless cells, which Tesla is calling 4860 cells, will make the company’s EV batteries five times more energy-dense, six times more powerful, and enable a 16 percent range increase for Tesla’s vehicles. five times more energy dense sounds like bullshit; six times more powerful seems like bullshit. In my area of work (carcer therapy research) if you make anything more than really tentative forward looking statements people will laugh at you, and unless you actually post the data they won't believe you anyway - so it seems odd to just take that at face value. fake edit: I did some superficial reading and some people at Tesla published a manuscript last month describing a potential battery improvement that has up to 60% increased battery capacity by volume (they skirt around the weight which I guess is key) with a lifetime of 200 cycles which seems to be about 10% of normal EV batteries. So even in the latest published research and in ideal conditions this particular technology looks nowhere near ready for prime time. https://sci-hub.se/https://www.nature.com/articles/s41560-020-0668-8 Any improvement like they are claiming would be awesome but my bullshitometer is going haywire. It's really annoying if they can't even be vaguely plausible.
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Sep 23, 2020 10:03
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Yeah, those 5x or 7x numbers didn't make sense to me. I thought I was misunderstanding something, maybe they were talking about factory efficiency. 16% more range is a more understandable number though. But you can get that by just adding 16% more battery of the current tech, so it's unclear if they mean for the same price, weight, volume or whatever.
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Sep 23, 2020 10:32
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Ola posted:American cars do extremely poorly now compared to historical numbers, so it's no surprise. It's far more a function of localization of production rather than demand for specific cars. For instance, the biggest automotive export from the US has in recent years been BMW SUVs (about 250,000 units per year), but that number has dropped quite a bit as production of X3 was localized in China. edit: once Berlin starts producing cars, I expect that Tesla will export very few vehicles from the US as most of the current volume is going in to Europe. I also don't trust any COVID times numbers as representative of normal steady state circumstance, and in this case a lot of plants have been closed or running at reduced rates.
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Sep 23, 2020 13:38
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Honestly I rather look at things like percent range increases and things like that, they broke them down by category. Tesla has been steadily increasing in efficiency yearly, so I think it's possible, but it may not be on their projected timeline, scaling up is a motherfucker. Things like 6x more energy dense seem like bullshit to me, which is why I didn't include them in my summary. However several battery manufacturers have halved the price of lithium ion already from a few years ago, and are approaching sub $100/kWh pack prices already. Rumor is Northvolt is already there for Volkswagen. Their total range increases and such are a combination of a few different factors, so really it just comes down to implementation. Also speaking of VW, official ID.4 reveal this morning:  82 kWh battery delivering 250 mi range, $32,495 after tax credit, 201 horsepower and 228 lb ft of torque.
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Sep 23, 2020 16:29
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I thought the huge numbers were for factory output for given footprint, which is probably just a number in theory since their pilot plant supposedly works but has abysmal yield. I'd bet that number drops as they have to change processes to improve yield since fast production line doesn't matter if you're discarding half of your outputWesty543 posted:82 kWh battery delivering 250 mi range, $32,495 after tax credit, 201 horsepower and 228 lb ft of torque. This is pretty tempting, but it is VW and they're not shipping much to the us...
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Sep 23, 2020 16:36
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gwrtheyrn posted:I'd bet that number drops as they have to change processes to improve yield since fast production line doesn't matter if you're discarding half of your output Didn't slow them down with model 3/y production!  Westy543 posted:official ID.4 reveal this morning: Only getting 250mi out of an 82kWh battery seems really inefficient. A lot of unusable battery reserve maybe?
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Sep 23, 2020 16:49
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RZA Encryption posted:
Yeah, it's 77 kWh net capacity, same as the Enyaq and the ID.3 Tour trim. 308 Wh/mi isn't great, perhaps highway? The ID.3 gets better than that at 120-130 kph.
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Sep 23, 2020 16:57
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knox_harrington posted:I have a hard time telling how plausible this stuff is, what do you think given you are qualified in this area? The cells are much larger and have 5x the total energy as a result of being larger, they are not claiming 5x the energy density anywhere. Previously they couldn't just make the cells larger because of thermal problems which are avoided by going tabless. All of this is explained in the presentation and various followup articles. fan mockup: 
Xel fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Sep 23, 2020 |
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Sep 23, 2020 17:02
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The 250 miles rated is for the 1st editions. Weren't those mid range on the id.3? Could this be that 1st ed is 250 miles but the id.4 can eventually be configured with a 82 kwh battery? Seems odd to advertise it that way though Edit: watched the launch video. Sure doesn't sound like it's that way, but it'd make a lot more sense for a ~60kwh battery getting ~250 miles gwrtheyrn fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Sep 23, 2020 |
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Sep 23, 2020 17:05
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gwrtheyrn posted:I thought the huge numbers were for factory output for given footprint, which is probably just a number in theory since their pilot plant supposedly works but has abysmal yield. I'd bet that number drops as they have to change processes to improve yield since fast production line doesn't matter if you're discarding half of your output It will be produced in the US starting early next year with customer deliveries for CY 22, so if you can wait 18 mos there should be a lot of availability.
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Sep 23, 2020 17:31
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:It will be produced in the US starting early next year with customer deliveries for CY 22, so if you can wait 18 mos there should be a lot of availability. This depends on me getting by with no car, or rather just my parents' car, for 18 months. Doable if pandemic lockdowns last that long, but there are other problems with that entails. hyundai/kia/nissan have models coming out next year too, so the id.4 could be a lot less compelling in a year.
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Sep 23, 2020 17:34
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NRTGUj75oc The front looks really good with the camo tape off.
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Sep 23, 2020 17:45
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why is every OEM making the worlds ugliest wheels
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Sep 23, 2020 17:48
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Gotta make everything aero
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Sep 23, 2020 17:49
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Ola posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NRTGUj75oc It'll look even cooler as we get closer to PVS 
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