|
nut posted:It was real good but the end dragged way too hard on the JFK stuff, particularly knowing that Talbot has written a whole book about JFK and RFK i guess if that's an area he knows a lot about it's natural he'd want to expound on it. for a while i used to try and bring everything back to the collapse of yugoslavia because i'd spent so long learning about it.
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 02:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 10:58 |
|
|
He seems to like JFK in that boomer way from what I recall. Ive got Open Veins of Latin America up after this delightful Pierre Breton book.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 02:50
|
|
|
Suplex Liberace posted:He seems to like JFK in that boomer way from what I recall. Ive got Open Veins of Latin America up after this delightful Pierre Breton book. yeah incredibly powerful Boomer vibes in how he talks about the Kennedys, Walter Lippmann, Schlesinger Speaking of Lippmann, I started Bernays' Propaganda as a palette cleanser and maybe will read some more chomsky. Then diving deep back into the pits when my copy of programmed to kill gets here
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 04:00
|
|
|
my big hangup with jfk conspiracies is that they hinge on jfk being good
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 04:29
|
|
|
StashAugustine posted:my big hangup with jfk conspiracies is that they hinge on jfk being good nah like the og one “the mob killed jfk” is because the election was stolen with mob help
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 04:33
|
|
|
StashAugustine posted:my big hangup with jfk conspiracies is that they hinge on jfk being good Portraying JFK as being bad is part of the conspiracy 
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 04:37
|
|
|
lmao at Warren Jeffs and the space shuttle o ring. what the gently caress
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 04:38
|
|
|
JFK is the only American president ive ever heard say decolonization
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 04:53
|
|
|
gh0stpinballa posted:i got another book for "y'all", part of my research, it is called the dirty war by martin dillon. it concerns the troubles and how MI5 dealt w the IRA. as i said before, gladio was an invention of the british and somehow the CIA took sole credit/blame for it. anyway have a read about this guy and the kincara boys home and tell me you don't get crack ping epstein dutroux vibes haha I live about 5 mins away from Kincora boys home and my brain is cracking and pinging like gently caress right now. could you go into a bit more detail about the book and about how the Troubles fits into the whole "epstein extended universe" if that's OK? testing ground for Gladio type poo poo? i mean yeah Kincora was obviously some honeypot type thing, does the book name any big names? i suppose I'll have to grab it myself
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 09:40
|
|
|
I love this thread and am happy for the wide range of discussion. Just posting the following message to remind us of our roots: Epstein didn't kill himself. cum
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 11:35
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:Portraying JFK as being bad is part of the conspiracy There are the things Kennedy did, then there are the things we theorize he did to make sense of the assassination, and those things are all "better" than anything he actually accomplished during his presidency. "He was killed because he was going to do this" is more mythologizing than anything. I think it was Zeitgeist that said he was killed because he wanted to end the Fed or grant the ability to print money backed by silver (the United States Note) to the government. I don't know enough about money to say this would have actually been good for the United States but the insistence to have the US dollar again backed by precious metals (there aren't enough of those in the world to account for the dollars in circulation, first of all) seemed more like a goldbug talking point or a cool "what if" than anything for a normal person to get mad about. It really could have just come down to Bay of Pigs/refusing Northwoods, but it's questionable to say he declined these because of his superior moral character among presidents as if he was the only one who would say no.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 13:00
|
|
|
i think kennedys actually just didn't like the dulles's/cia
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 13:03
|
|
|
jfk famously said something like he wanted to shred the cia into a thousand pieces and let it go into the wind he also refused to command full scale military attack after the bay of pigs failed, though it seems it was meant to fail and one of his military advisors already positioned troops nearby ready for a “yes” people also mention that JFK sought nuclear disarmament with Khrushchev and coexistence with Cuba, cut mob ties, and probably other things. but I don’t think those actions were hated for ideological reasons, but instead that the CIA was being outmaneuvered and shirked after having had a tight grip on foreign affairs
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 13:18
|
|
|
crazy eyes mustafa posted:I think it was Zeitgeist that said he was killed because he wanted to end the Fed or grant the ability to print money backed by silver (the United States Note) to the government. I don't know enough about money to say this would have actually been good for the United States but the insistence to have the US dollar again backed by precious metals (there aren't enough of those in the world to account for the dollars in circulation, first of all) seemed more like a goldbug talking point or a cool "what if" than anything for a normal person to get mad about. i dimly remember something about Saddam Hussein almost successfully changing some important pricing mechanism around oil away from the US dollar to maybe the euro or something and thats why Iraq 2 happened
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 13:28
|
|
|
nut posted:he also refused to command full scale military attack after the bay of pigs failed, though it seems it was meant to fail and one of his military advisors already positioned troops nearby ready for a “yes” That was exactly the plan. The Bay of Pigs was supposed to "fail", and then the generals would beg the President to send in air support, and then the Cubans would shoot at the US-flagged planes flying air support, and things would escalate from there, and it'd be War With Cuba. They never expected JFK to say no. nut posted:people also mention that JFK sought nuclear disarmament with Khrushchev and coexistence with Cuba, cut mob ties, and probably other things. but I don’t think those actions were hated for ideological reasons, but instead that the CIA was being outmaneuvered and shirked after having had a tight grip on foreign affairs  I think it's possible for us to say that JFK was nowhere near being a socialist, while also acknowledging that perhaps even his position of not-being-all-the-way-to-the-right was already enough for the CIA to want to get rid of him.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 14:06
|
|
|
yeah to be more serious about my point i still don't really like jfk and think he's over-mythologized but merely not being a complete psychopath would get the cia mad as hell
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 14:18
|
|
|
I just think him saying hes wants to shrink or touch the CIA in anyway made him an immediate target. Dosent the French president say that too and jkf laughs it off and then dies?
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 14:26
|
|
|
multistability posted:haha I live about 5 mins away from Kincora boys home and my brain is cracking and pinging like gently caress right now. could you go into a bit more detail about the book and about how the Troubles fits into the whole "epstein extended universe" if that's OK? testing ground for Gladio type poo poo? i mean yeah Kincora was obviously some honeypot type thing, does the book name any big names? i suppose I'll have to grab it myself i think there are similar methods in as much as this disaffected group of radical right wing MI5/6 officers were leveraging pedo blackmail dirt against loyalist paramilitaries to get them to do hits, bombings, etc to justify great brit involvement, and VIPs like mountbatten were involved to blackmail them too and try to get them on board with the clockwork orange plot to coup wilsons labour government in the 1970s. this is kind of gladio esque, but the real holy poo poo moment is that wallace reported his concerns to a certain MI6 boss called anthony cavendish, who later admitted he had heard "rumours" about kincora. for his trouble, wallace was framed for murder and sent to prison. cavendish was a member of le cercle, aka the pinay group, which we can think of as the british detachment of operation gladio post-1970. when UK generals and US diplomats were casually speculating in the press about how they might "revolt" against jeremy corbyn if he won an election, i couldn't help but think about le cercle, gladio, and clockwork orange...
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 14:29
|
|
|
Suplex Liberace posted:I just think him saying hes wants to shrink or touch the CIA in anyway made him an immediate target. Dosent the French president say that too and jkf laughs it off and then dies? de gaulle wrote a whole explanation as to what he (accurately) thought happened to JFK re: the CIA, mentioning that essentially the same thing happened to him when 12 OAS snipers tried to kill de Gaulle in his car after the liberation of Algiers. I dunno about nowadays, but up to the devil's chessboard, talbot mentions that those memoirs were never translated or published in the US lol
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 14:38
|
|
|
i'd be willing to bet dulles masterminded the whole thing solely because jfk kicked him out of a position from which he assumed he was untouchable. dulles thought very highly of himself and was a petty bitch that loved the drama
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 14:58
|
|
|
Hooplah posted:i'd be willing to bet dulles masterminded the whole thing solely because jfk kicked him out of a position from which he assumed he was untouchable. dulles thought very highly of himself and was a petty bitch that loved the drama I dunno how accurate it is of a depiction of Dulles, but after he had a stroke and started fading mentally at the end of his life, Dulles comes across like he very much still thinks that any day now he'll be asked to rejoin the CIA as director
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 15:00
|
|
|
nut posted:I dunno how accurate it is of a depiction of Dulles, but after he had a stroke and started fading mentally at the end of his life, Dulles comes across like he very much still thinks that any day now he'll be asked to rejoin the CIA as director Stop making me liken him to jim lahey in my head 
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 15:04
|
|
|
In maybe an oblique attempt to rein everything in here, common across JFK, every president, Dulles, and Epstein is a deep-seated belief that they are/were chosen and special to be part of the elite. All based out of Lippmann's notions that democracies do not work as intended because the public at large is idiotic and incapable and needs a small panel of appointed, not elected, technocrats to make sure things happen. This has long become the functional definition of a democracy and, I think, a critical if unconscious belief all of these people hold to justify their supra-governmental status. When challenged as to what makes these people so special, it's insane how flimsy it all is. It's like inheritance and Yale (which go hand in hand anyway). Maybe a more nuanced point is that, within this group, someone like Epstein is elevated into the echelons from nothing but kept there and lauded for his willingness to do all the dirty work. I'd guess maybe similar to how Joseph McCarthy, David Gonzalez, William King Harvey were treated, where they were given the power and money, but never had the pedigree and so were useful until they were expendable.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 15:09
|
|
|
Hooplah posted:Stop making me liken him to jim lahey in my head  Oh, kennedy, I am the director
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 15:32
|
|
|
i bet this poo poo started out ironic and then then some whackjobs saw it were and all like "OMFG ANOTHER SEES THE TRUTH I AM VINDICATED" pretty sad call your shrink
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 16:06
|
|
|
Mackers posted:i bet this poo poo started out ironic and then then some whackjobs saw it were and all like "OMFG ANOTHER SEES THE TRUTH I AM VINDICATED" you seem to post about this thread a lot.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 16:18
|
|
|
gh0stpinballa posted:you seem to post about this thread a lot. Like you kinda guys are the reason I joined SA in the 1st place?? Its fascinating just never figured itd be coming from within the site like please go on
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 16:22
|
|
|
by which i mean: see a loving therapist jesus christ
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 16:24
|
|
|
Mackers posted:i bet this poo poo started out ironic and then then some whackjobs saw it were and all like "OMFG ANOTHER SEES THE TRUTH I AM VINDICATED" found a pic of u online 
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 16:24
|
|
|
Hooplah posted:found a pic of u online literally have no idea what this is supposed to mean you lunatic
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 16:26
|
|
|
dont you dare make me explain the joke
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 16:27
|
|
|
Mackers posted:literally have no idea what this is supposed to mean you lunatic Lmao owned
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 16:28
|
|
|
Mackers posted:Like you kinda guys are the reason I joined SA in the 1st place?? Its fascinating i just find it interesting how chatting about history and billionaire creeps seems to have triggered you into this state of manic fury. i saw your post about this thread and then "echo chambers" in the trump thread, which was the 500th thing you've posted in the last 24 hours in one of the half a dozen orange man bad/dems suck threads we have. i knew you were goibg to come storming in here because it clearly eats at you. do you not feel like questioning peoples mental health, accusing people of being in echo chambers, and questioning ppls intelligence levels here may be a bit of projection on your part? i mean it would also help if you specified what it is about "the CIA and rich people do terrible things" you object to. we can dialogue then. gh0stpinballa has issued a correction as of 16:37 on Sep 24, 2020 |
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 16:30
|
|
|
wow next this thread is going to say crazy poo poo like the war on drugs was made up to hurt Black Americans and the youth, the Gulf of Tonkin was lied about, the military dropped biological warfare agents on American cities, the CIA did LSD experiments on people without their knowledge, that corporations have been suppressing science on climate change for decades or that doctors lied to cancer patients and killed them with radiation instead of giving them therapy to see how they died goofy poo poo to believe all that nonsense
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 16:33
|
|
|
Mackers is an op
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 16:37
|
|
|
sure sure sure, the CIA admitted to having a heart attack gun in a congressional hearing, but you’re a wacked out conspiracy nutto if you think the same CIA that tried implanting a cat with a microphone and tried to kill Castro with explosive cigars actually ever used this heart attack gun they had built
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 16:39
|
|
|
Excelzior posted:Mackers is an op its True sorry guys i totes revealed mysel;f by not being loving bonkers please seek help
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 16:41
|
|
|
Excelzior posted:Mackers is an op i think he's just one of those types who allows the mere existence of internet convos he doesn't like/finds offensive to prey on his mind. he's been intermittently posting non sequiters in unrelated threads about how much this thread irritates him for the last few days. he's probably been working himself up to do this for at least a couple of hours. i hope he got what he was looking for.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 16:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 10:58 |
|
|
talked to my handlers and we are prepared for a mackers for cuppy trade
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 16:44
|
|