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Test Pattern posted:
Conversely, characters being perversely and defiantly wrong and keep loving themselves over with it and still not realizing it. Elaida and Elayne come to mind for this, to say nothing of the Forsaken in general
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Sep 23, 2020 20:05
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DarkHorse posted:Conversely, characters being perversely and defiantly wrong and keep loving themselves over with it and still not realizing it. I say it again: Elaida's greatest flaw is right out there in the open. It's right in her name: Elide: transitive verb 1a : to suppress or alter (something, such as a vowel or syllable) by elision b : to strike out (something, such as a written word) 2a : to leave out of consideration : omit b : curtail, abridge This is a woman who makes her entire life about omitting/altering/suppressing/altering/curtailing the things she doesn't want to see in favor of those she does. Her entire purpose is to be a self-deluded obstacle to the heroes and their designs. I have yet to come up with a good excuse for Elayne, except perhaps as a commentary on privilege.
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Sep 23, 2020 20:09
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She fails forward by dint of being the daughter heir beloved of the dragon. Blindly killing and maiming other people who the narrative doesn’t even deign to name. It’s not a subtle commentary.
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Sep 23, 2020 20:46
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ConfusedUs posted:I say it again: Elaida's greatest flaw is right out there in the open. It's right in her name:
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Sep 23, 2020 21:11
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Invalid Validation posted:Which relationship? There’s at least three wives to ask. considering the nature of most of the advice he gives... 
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Sep 23, 2020 21:16
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Famethrowa posted:with this in mind, the series really reads as "Robert Jordan's guide to his and his wife's relationship" "death light as a feather, duty heavy as a mountain"?
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Sep 23, 2020 21:34
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Invalid Validation posted:Which relationship? There’s at least three wives to ask. He's stated that many of the female characters in the series are at least in part based on his wife.
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Sep 23, 2020 21:34
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I wonder if Berelain was. I'm up to Towers of Midnight in my re-read, and I had forgotten that the Perrin/Galad situation gets resolved because Galad is super-thirsty for Berelain.
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Sep 24, 2020 16:37
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I'm in the middle of The Gathering Storm, and it feels kinda weird. I know that part of it is simply that I've read Jordan's books far more than I have Sanderson's. I can't recall anymore if I actually did a reread for all three of the latter, so it's entirely possible I've read each of them only once (certainly not more than thrice each), while I could probably recite Eye of the World plot point by plot point and my poor thousand-page middle books are practically falling apart. Part of it is certainly noticing oddities among word choice and the like, though I try and not stare at things too hard because that way lies madness. But honestly? The thing that's getting me the most is the absolute mess of the structure of the book. It steadfastly refuses to stay in one place for more than a chapter or two, and loves shoving multiple PoVs into single chapters, made all the more noticeable for being so close to Crossroads of Twilight (which I think is absolutely gorgeously organized). I certainly get it, but man if it isn't jarring.
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Sep 25, 2020 01:31
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i'm like halfway through the last book and it feels like sanderson kind of adjusts to the role better as he goes along. it's a bit weird in his first one for sure, but imo it smooths out.
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Sep 25, 2020 01:39
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:I wonder if Berelain was. Probably. Also many many many writer camps explicitly teach building characters by profiling a known individual then altering the profile to get a new character profile.
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Sep 25, 2020 01:39
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Johnny Joestar posted:i'm like halfway through the last book and it feels like sanderson kind of adjusts to the role better as he goes along. it's a bit weird in his first one for sure, but imo it smooths out. He absolutely was incredibly rough in the beginning Part of why I love Sanderson is seeing how he's continuously growing as an author The down side of that is seeming him suck at the beginning
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Sep 25, 2020 02:11
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Johnny Joestar posted:i'm like halfway through the last book and it feels like sanderson kind of adjusts to the role better as he goes along. it's a bit weird in his first one for sure, but imo it smooths out. Part of me also wonders if by the third book he and Harriet were a little more lenient on using Jordan's exact notes. I figure a book narrated on your deathbed probably is off a bunch on it's own. (See the last 2 Pratchett novels.) By the third book they had been working together for a while so they became more comfortable with what each other wanted.
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Sep 25, 2020 03:58
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I kind of suspect the opposite. Jordan probably had left a lot more material for the very end than he did the earlier parts, so Sanderson had to create less. Given that the last three books were supposed to be one book, it was probably weakest in the in-between and strongest in The Last Battle itself.
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Sep 25, 2020 04:01
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also i feel like by the time you've gotten to the third book you've probably gotten a better handle on writing in someone else's 'voice', more or less, which probably helps it work out. the tone was absolutely noticeable when starting out the moment sanderson took over but i genuinely haven't given it much thought by this point, now.
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Sep 25, 2020 04:06
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Gnoman posted:I kind of suspect the opposite. Jordan probably had left a lot more material for the very end than he did the earlier parts, so Sanderson had to create less. Given that the last three books were supposed to be one book, it was probably weakest in the in-between and strongest in The Last Battle itself. yeah it seems like, given the above deal where Jordan had really firm ideas about how things must end and some final scenes literally entirely written, Sanderson may've had more original legwork to do when he'd just started, to get the characters to the places that they needed to be with the accomplishments they needed to have by then (which would be unfortunate when you're also trying to figure out someone else's style, or at least pay it homage)
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Sep 25, 2020 04:07
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Wrong thread
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Sep 25, 2020 04:18
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Bums me out all those side stories we could have got are all floating in the ether now. Would be cool to see a future book with his kids watching the Aiel fall.
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Sep 25, 2020 05:53
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I'm ok with not seeing that, and there was just enough hope given that it might not happen.
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Sep 25, 2020 06:11
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:I'm ok with not seeing that, and there was just enough hope given that it might not happen. Same The outriggers featuring the adventures of Mat and Tuon as they reconquer Seanchan however will be sorely missed
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Sep 25, 2020 06:40
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DarkHorse posted:Same That would have been so sick.
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Sep 25, 2020 06:59
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Syncopated posted:That would have been so sick. the whole thing would have just irritated me because the whole time they would have insisted on having stupid new names
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Sep 25, 2020 07:34
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I recently reread Towers of Midnight, where Mat was forced to have a conversation in the Old Tongue again. While his syntax noticeably changed when Jordan wrote him speaking the Old Tongue, it was just normal Mat speech when Sanderson wrote that part. That was a missed opportunity 
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Sep 25, 2020 10:17
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I still think that part where Rand thinks to himself about how he has the form of a human but isn't one anymore is really bizarre
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Sep 25, 2020 10:39
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Torrannor posted:I recently reread Towers of Midnight, where Mat was forced to have a conversation in the Old Tongue again. While his syntax noticeably changed when Jordan wrote him speaking the Old Tongue, it was just normal Mat speech when Sanderson wrote that part. That was a missed opportunity It is such a shame because that scene with Birgitte with that reveal is so drat cool.
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Sep 25, 2020 10:50
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Cavelcade posted:It is such a shame because that scene with Birgitte with that reveal is so drat cool. I'm really hoping they get to that scene in the show. If they do it right it could be amazing, especially if they change the phrasing Mat uses when the scene starts.
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Sep 25, 2020 21:56
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I'm still reading the WoT liveblog, and I'm reminded of how memorable some of RJs chapter titles are. You have the bangers like The Grave Is No Bar to My Call, With the Choeadan Kal, The Road to the Spear/The Dedicated, A Visit from Verin Sedai, etc. And the liveblog pointed out that a chapter titled "A Plain Wooden Box" in a Rand PoV after LoC is simply not okay, and even though Semirhage failed to put him into such a box, he still lost a hand for that.. And skimming over the list of chapters, I can usually recall what they are about. Fire and Spirit - yes, you need both to heal stilling, excellent discovery, Nynaeve. The Law - the law of war gives the Amyrlin total control over the persecution of said war, good that Egwene tricked the Salidar sitters into declaring war on Elaida. Nine out of Ten - Elayne has nine houses behind her when she needs ten to become queen. And so on. It's one thing RJ was really good at, and I really appreciate it. Similar how Babylon 5 episode titles were way more memorable than Star Trek TNG episode titles for example.
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Sep 26, 2020 11:17
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Actually Harriet was responsible for naming chapters.
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Sep 26, 2020 13:03
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I wonder if she helped come up with sword forms too. They're all so evocative and do a great job conveying the kind of move is being done without bogging down the narrative with details Boar Rushing Down the Mountain, The Courtier Taps His Fan, Sheathe the Sword...
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Sep 26, 2020 13:29
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The chapter pictures are good too. You know when the skull shows up poo poo is going down.
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Sep 26, 2020 17:49
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The Last That Could be Done
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Sep 26, 2020 17:53
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Invalid Validation posted:The chapter pictures are good too. You know when the skull shows up poo poo is going down. Having listened to the audiobooks for all the books, I wasn't aware this was even a thing until Lia's liveblog brought it up.
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Sep 26, 2020 18:12
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Harriett deserves a lot more credit than she gets. She was also editor on Ender's Game (but not the later books in that series) and the overall quality of the Wheel of Time books basically tracks exactly with her degree of involvement in the editing. Everyone thinks "oh, they got silly long and bad because his wife was his editor" but really she was most involved as editor in the earlier books and her health issues meant she couldn't be as involved from 6-10 or so. Invalid Validation posted:The chapter pictures are good too. You know when the skull shows up poo poo is going down. Yeah I think those were also Harriett's idea. There are a number of puzzles you can figure out early because of chapter icon clues (e.g., a forsaken icon in a chapter with no obvious forsaken, etc.) Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Sep 26, 2020 |
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Sep 26, 2020 18:16
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:There are a number of puzzles you can figure out early because of chapter icon clues (e.g., a forsaken icon in a chapter with no obvious forsaken, etc.) Yeah, Lanfear's chapter icon when there's no Lanfear in the chapter, or sometimes the Black Ajah icon with no (known) black sister to be seen.
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Sep 26, 2020 21:30
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Invalid Validation posted:I mean other than wish fullfilment there’s really no purpose to doing it. It doesn’t serve the story in any way. They don’t overcome any obstacles because they all wanna be married to him. Min said it happens so of course it’s fine and there is no conflict in it. yeah in my headcannon he basically controls the pattern at will at this point so he can just body shift whenever he wants
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Sep 27, 2020 05:51
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Oct 28, 2020 21:41
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I thought the con were mounted to their backs for some reason
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Oct 28, 2020 22:24
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:I thought the con were mounted to their backs for some reason That's a Cairhienin thing I think? Borderlanders use bannermen. e: but yeah, that's Agelmar's personal banner, then the black hawk of Shienar in the background. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Oct 28, 2020 |
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Oct 28, 2020 22:51
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Oct 28, 2020 22:53
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Seeing that, I wonder how much they'll ape GoT aesthetics. That fantasy armor looks like it was sold as surplus from the GoT set.
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Oct 29, 2020 04:40
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