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Lager posted:The Vic Sage Question, not Renee. Ollie and him teamed up a bunch in the 80s and from my memory of the events, they spent half of the time wanting to punch each other and screaming about politics. Keep in mind that Rorschach was based on Question. And Mr. A, who is a whole other conversation. But yeah. My rankings were on how likely Ollie is to yell at them.  And they didn't scream at each other. Ollie was suspicious about the Question because he didn't know him, but after him and the Question had a conversation about zen philosophy they were cool. The Question hasn't been written like Rorschach for several decades now.
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Sep 29, 2020 17:34
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Blockhouse posted:Remember how The Dark Knight set up this massive status quo change where the police would actively be hunting Batman and Gotham would turn against him, leaving him more isolated then ever? And then in DKR it turned out Bruce twisted his ankle real bad so he quit being Batman for nearly a decade? there was a deleted stinger scene from the Dark Knight that was just the "Peter barks his shin" scene from Family Guy, but with Batman
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Sep 29, 2020 19:13
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Alhazred posted:
He was kid friendly Rorschach in the JLU animated series.
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Sep 29, 2020 19:17
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Vince MechMahon posted:He was kid friendly Rorschach in the JLU animated series. I still wow friends with my knowledge of aglets and their sinister purpose.
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Sep 29, 2020 19:34
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Seemlar posted:The first supervillain to come to Gotham after the Dent Act is put in place conquers it almost effortlessly and shoves all the cops into a dungeon. The truth being that a surveillance state is bad only when its named after a man who had half his face burned off
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Sep 29, 2020 19:43
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Alhazred posted:
I reread some of the crossovers, at least skimming them for the interactions between them. I know that GA and Question had a Crossfire-esque liberal vs. conservative talk show thing going on in DKSB, but that book was terrible so we can ignore it. Alan Moore had an idea for Green Arrow and Question to be basically constantly arguing like an old married couple about politics, but still being close friends, in Twilight of the Superheroes. Probably his least worst idea for that book. As referenced by Vince MechMahon, in JLU Question was a kooky conspiracy theorist and Green Arrow thought he was loony. They've always had kind of a weird relationship to each other, that includes a lot of side-eyeing at best. My original comment was just a joke about how at any given time, Green Arrow is likely to yell at one of his teammates on the Justice League, or any other hero he encounters, by listing out the order of who he's most likely to call a fascist. I like Question, a lot, but he's always had an undercurrent of Randian philosophy, given to him by his creator. He's also had a lot of different characterizations over the years, including one where he was some sort of city shaman who freaked out Superman and probably was doing lots of drugs. And it's okay to point out that sometimes he has some really bad political opinions. To cite a specific example of GA and Q butting heads, here's one from Question Annual #2:   Later, after Green Arrow runs in to kick some rear end and Vic stays behind to think about whether turning everyone into faceless robots is a good plan for human advancement...  Edit: Screwed up by not using IMG tags Lager fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Sep 29, 2020 |
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Sep 29, 2020 19:50
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David D. Davidson posted:From what I've read about it, Nolan did have other plans in mind for a follow up to The Dark Knight that involved Dent returning as a supervillan and the Joker in a Hannibal Lecter esqe role that fell through because of Heath Ledger's death and not being able to sign Aaron Eckhart back on for another movie. I think this is off by a little though I don't have a source. IIRC, Eckhart wanted to come back for whatever Nolan Batman 3 was going to be (during filming of TDK, or perhaps just after) and he was told by Nolan something along the lines of "No no, the script says right here, 'Dent lies still at the bottom of the pit, his neck bent at an unrealistic angle. He's not breathing'. Sorry, you're dead."
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Sep 29, 2020 20:13
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Lager posted:I reread some of the crossovers, at least skimming them for the interactions between them. I know that GA and Question had a Crossfire-esque liberal vs. conservative talk show thing going on in DKSB, but that book was terrible so we can ignore it. Alan Moore had an idea for Green Arrow and Question to be basically constantly arguing like an old married couple about politics, but still being close friends, in Twilight of the Superheroes. Probably his least worst idea for that book. As referenced by Vince MechMahon, in JLU Question was a kooky conspiracy theorist and Green Arrow thought he was loony. They've always had kind of a weird relationship to each other, that includes a lot of side-eyeing at best. My original comment was just a joke about how at any given time, Green Arrow is likely to yell at one of his teammates on the Justice League, or any other hero he encounters, by listing out the order of who he's most likely to call a fascist.
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Sep 29, 2020 20:46
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Alhazred posted:While people in the JLU thinks he's a loon (allthough it turns out he's correct about everything) he's not portrayed as fascist or right leaning. In the comic he has flaws and makes mistakes, but he's aware of that and tries to be nettet. He's not the randian superman who's always in the right. I think a lot of people conflate the Question with the Mr. A stuff Ditko did later.
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Sep 29, 2020 21:12
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I remember Bane being done in by Catwoman shooting rockets at him from her motorcycle thing. Did that not happen? Endless Mike posted:It's because he's a cop Do all Green Lanterns fall into this also? I feel like John, Guy, and Kyle at least would not be down for that. Seemlar posted:The first supervillain to come to Gotham after the Dent Act is put in place conquers it almost effortlessly and shoves all the cops into a dungeon. This still really bugs me because the point I thought of the opening was "Turns out in the real world if you tried to be a vigilante you'd suffer from a bum knee and forced retirement". Rookie cop JGL is not a trained ninja. He's going to be a dead Batman in his first week.
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Sep 29, 2020 21:18
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Alhazred posted:While people in the JLU thinks he's a loon (allthough it turns out he's correct about everything) he's not portrayed as fascist or right leaning. In the comic he has flaws and makes mistakes, but he's aware of that and tries to be nettet. He's not the randian superman who's always in the right. Never said he was portrayed as a Randian superman who is always right, if anything the comic portrays him as a hard-luck schmuck who is often wrong and gets made aware of that by the world around him. What I'm saying is that he's often portrayed as a guy who Green Arrow would yell at about his politics. Again, my post was just a joke about how Green Arrow views other superheroes, and Question's right-wing origins and leanings. I was taking the piss out of Ollie if anything, hope that helps to clarify that I'm not trying to besmirch the honor of Vic Sage or something. I like the Question, though I admittedly haven't read every issue, and it's been a pretty good long while since I read any of them.
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Sep 29, 2020 21:23
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SonicRulez posted:I remember Bane being done in by Catwoman shooting rockets at him from her motorcycle thing. Did that not happen? Iirc they did some variation on the theme of our hero beats up the bad guy, turns to leave, but oh no the bad guy gets up and is about to strike our hero unawares when the hero's buddy shows up and shoots the bad guy. Only this time with rockets.
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Sep 29, 2020 21:26
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I enjoy DKR but I’ll freely admit 90 percent of what I like about it has nothing to do with the movie itself and everything about it being a giant nostalgia bomb on like three different levels for me.
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Sep 29, 2020 21:55
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I recently rewatched the Nolan stuff and the one I was most excited to revisit was DKR because that was the one I liked the least and therefore the one I rewatched the least. I think I had seen it once since it was in theatres and that was when it was on some channel and I wasn't really paying attention, so this time I decided to revisit it and see "if it was really that bad". From the rewatch I will say that the first....20 odd minutes are way better than I remember. The opening plane scene is up there with the bank heist in DK in regards to action set pieces. The setting up of the new status quo was quite good as we are given a new situation and a different world from before. Everything up until the first Bane/Batman fight scene is pretty solid.....and then it goes to poo poo. Now there were some issues in Dark Knight as far as pacing go that were easy to overlook because of how good the movie is overall (despite what some....contrarians will say Dark Knight is still held up in some high regards). These pacing issues really become a lot more glaring in DKR. How long is Bruce in the hole? How does he get back into Gotham? How did things go to poo poo so quickly? Just some stuff that could have been dealt with a line of dialog was largely left alone. I know people rail against Nolan being pro-surveillance state and anti occupy movement but the general message I initially took from the movie was be careful of populist who take over movements for personal gain. Yes Bane told Gotham to bring down the 1% and gently caress the police but we kind of leave out the part where he was going to blow up Gotham with a freaking nuclear bomb in the end (and also had criminals run kangaroo courts). The pro-police angle really sucked though, even when the movie came out and it was really loving bad having it be "the only thing between us and outright chaos is a police force because the citizens of Gotham are too meek to do anything for themselves otherwise (and in this regard I wish the movie really would have fully dedicated itself to NML like it should have). I am kind of surprised to see people here say Hathaway was not a good Catwoman. I actually thought she did a great job with the character. Even Hardy was imposing as Bane should be. Overall I think the movie is good nearing on great for the first 30 minutes and then pretty poo poo after that. Dark Knight is still my favourite. Begins is better than I remember it and a solid first movie.
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Sep 29, 2020 22:55
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Yeah like my charitable read of the movie is that Nolan is drawing a distinction between civilian authority and military authority, but it would have been greatly helped by having more than just Catwoman there to represent some positive side of the general public - other than uh the cops. Like I think the theme of TDK is overall maybe even more misanthropic, but it still had the great scene on the ferry. I'm really very fine with superhero movies saying superheroes are ultimately unnecessary, what mostly annoys me is when these movies are kinda contemptuous of the people the superheroes are protecting. That's TDKR's biggest sin IMO.
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Sep 29, 2020 23:53
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It's a weird turn after the cops were spectacularly useless in TDK, constantly blundering into every trap the Joker set, and with Gordon turning on Batman when it comes to the hostage situation at the end. Ultimately it's civilians who are the only people on the movie who prove the Joker wrong. Then in DKR they're both stupid enough to get trapped in a sewer for months and yet the only thing that defeats the army of escaped criminals who have taken over the city?
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Sep 30, 2020 00:21
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There's four years between the two movies' release, that kind of consistency isn't terribly important.
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Sep 30, 2020 01:30
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The cops in the sewers thing was so goddamned stupid.
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Sep 30, 2020 01:38
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Rhyno posted:The cops in the sewers thing was so goddamned stupid. I mean it's where most belong so there's that least.
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Sep 30, 2020 02:16
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Rhyno posted:The cops in the sewers thing was so goddamned stupid. They were down there for months, but when they get free they have the strength to battle Bane's army of mercs and hardened criminals?
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Sep 30, 2020 04:10
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Setting aside the cops and the themes entirely for a minute, my biggest problem with DKR is that the villain is the League of Shadows is the villain again. Like yeah, Bane's the leader now and they're gonna blow it up instead of flood it in fear toxin, okay but ultimately when you boil it down the real endgame is that the League wants to destroy Gotham. I all just gives a sense of "Wait, we're doing this again? And 2 sequels down the line?" It's like if in Iron Man 3 Guy Pearce revealed that his whole plan was actually... to monetize arc reactor technology and steal Stark Industries! Oh and he's actually Ezekiel Stane! After Joker I thought we were past trying to destroy Gotham (well at least for Ra's Al Ghul's reasons), and at least when Bane was announced it seemed like we were, but oh well.
TwoPair fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Sep 30, 2020 |
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Sep 30, 2020 04:42
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TwoPair posted:Setting aside the cops and the themes entirely for a minute, my biggest problem with DKR is that the villain is the League of Shadows is the villain again. Like yeah, Bane's the leader now and they're gonna blow it up instead of flood it in fear toxin, okay but ultimately when you boil it down the real endgame is that the League wants to destroy Gotham. I all just gives a sense of "Wait, we're doing this again? And 2 sequels down the line?" It's like if in Iron Man 3 Guy Pearce revealed that his whole plan was actually... to monetize arc reactor technology and steal Stark Industries! Oh and he's actually Ezekiel Stane! After Joker I thought we were past trying to destroy Gotham (well at least for Ra's Al Ghul's reasons), and at least when Bane was announced it seemed like we were, but oh well. If you're doing a trilogy with the intent of it ending, I'd argue the opposite. The League of Shadows is really the only choice. It brings everything thematically in a circle and ends with Batman not being a Better Ninja Than They Are but realizing that he can't be what they are even if he tries to be more moral about it. Anything else would feel rather toothless unless you had something basically the same thing but lesser. The fact that Talia was notably absent from Begins also really gives it that little extra comic cred. You could arguably have done like, Azrael or something but at the end of the day you wouldn't change much except replacing one popular Batman villain with a slightly less popular Batman antihero.
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Sep 30, 2020 04:55
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Yes having the LoS as the true threat in the last movie made sense. The whole conflict of BB is that Ras believes Gotham is a lost cause and has to be destroyed, while Bruce wants to save it. He stops them for awhile but lets down his guard.
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Sep 30, 2020 05:03
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Sure sure but the cops in the sewers was so goddamned stupid.
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Sep 30, 2020 12:07
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Rhyno posted:Sure sure but the cops in the sewers was so goddamned stupid. Yeah everything around that was terrible and terribly shot. Especially since the movie opens with the cops kind of being bad for locking up people with less due process and spend most of the movie antagonizing Batman. Movie should've leaned into cops sucking even more to make Bane's criticisms of the system have more bite (and remind us why Bruce didn't just become a cop).
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Sep 30, 2020 18:29
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This is weird. Apparently they redid the Peter Parker model in Sony’s Spider-Man game for the next gen remaster and suddenly he looks an awful lot like Tom Holland. That game has its own continuity and has no connection to the MCU. https://twitter.com/mcu_direct/status/1311356380578754561?s=21
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Sep 30, 2020 18:58
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They changed the actor so they could get better synch up the facial motion capture with Yuri Lowenthal.
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Sep 30, 2020 19:17
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We have a Ms Marvel https://twitter.com/krolljvar/status/1311379898842243072?s=21
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Sep 30, 2020 20:04
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Somebody get her off social media immediately edit; Seriously though, she looks young enough to age with the part long term, if that's Marvel's plan (it is almost certainly Marvel's plan) so good for her
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Sep 30, 2020 21:32
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Yay for accurate representation boo for exploiting a child.
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Sep 30, 2020 21:35
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Rhyno posted:Yay for accurate representation boo for exploiting a child. She's apparently 18.
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Sep 30, 2020 21:50
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Well fine boo for exploiting her until now.
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Sep 30, 2020 21:54
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Rhyno posted:Well fine boo for exploiting her until now. I don’t think she’s been in anything before.
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Sep 30, 2020 21:56
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Child actors aren't inherently exploited and it's lovely to suggest otherwise.
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Sep 30, 2020 21:56
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rantmo posted:Child actors aren't inherently exploited and it's lovely to suggest otherwise. Are you serious?
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Sep 30, 2020 21:57
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Rhyno posted:Are you serious? Yes, speaking as someone who joined SAG when he was four and has been a working performer my entire life.
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Sep 30, 2020 22:02
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Cool, glad you lucked out.
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Sep 30, 2020 22:04
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I'm not suggesting that child performers aren't often exploited and that the transition from childhood to teen to adult is not fraught in ways that are particular to it but to call the entire idea exploitation is insulting.
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Sep 30, 2020 22:07
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I mean, the joke about washed out child actors is a thing for a reason. That reason being overbearing parents who don't protect their interests and poo poo
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Sep 30, 2020 22:12
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I think there's definitely a sense in which saying "this is always bad and can only ever be bad" is letting the people and institutions who do it badly off the hook; see also, every high school trope ever.
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Sep 30, 2020 22:15
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