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SuperMechagodzilla posted:So: what are we talking about when we talk about telekinesis? From where did this concept originate? Abstract semiotic phenomena, like cinema, theater, novels and paintings, talking, fire and song.
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Sep 30, 2020 20:38
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With just a little hindsight you can reach backwards from that scene, make the trilogy about a race to find the long lost Force Temple of Eternal Life, and do some interesting stuff that ties in with the rest of the films. Kylo stands over Rey's lifeless body, tears in his eyes. He turns to Luke's force ghost: "Is it possible to learn this power?" "Not from the Sith"
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Sep 30, 2020 20:58
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Grandpa Palpatine posted:You're replying to SMG. He does this poo poo all the time. And acts like his bizarre interpretation is widely supported and cannot possibly be rejected. He's right, though.
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Sep 30, 2020 21:14
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I thought we were all here just to take a ride on the SMG train every so often. It’s always entertaining.
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Sep 30, 2020 21:17
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Everything we say is true, from a certain point of view
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Sep 30, 2020 21:17
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Alchenar posted:With just a little hindsight you can reach backwards from that scene, make the trilogy about a race to find the long lost Force Temple of Eternal Life, and do some interesting stuff that ties in with the rest of the films. no this is bad, awful the loving worst
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Oct 1, 2020 03:41
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Electro-Boogie Jack posted:He's right, though. Like, just going back to something I skipped earlier: I wrote that Obiwan’s death has a unique impact on Luke because Luke experiences it as a re-enactment of own father’s alleged death. In this way, Luke was uniquely primed to be fooled by an illusion. And then someone chimed in to say that’s dubious. But, y’know, go back to everything Obiwan says and it’s like “oh yeah, your dad was a guy exactly like me. He had a sword exactly like this, and he wanted to give it to you exactly as I’m doing now. Then, in the end, he was killed by Darth Vader exactly like this.” Even before the later twist that this is all, - at best - deceptive wordplay, Guinness plays Obiwan as a shady dude. And there are multiple scenes of him tricking people. The very first shot of him in the film is of him tricking people! So this tricksy guy just happens to have the exact information that Luke’s dumb orphan brain desperately needs, and his magician’s trunk just happens to contain the exact cheap prop that Luke would consider extremely valuable? Truly, the lord works in mysterious ways! And, like, no. Think about it or two seconds. Luke is a fuckin mark, and Obiwan conned him into selling his car. Obiwan then used the cash from the sale of the car to con Han into thinking they’re rich. It’s fun because he’s doing it to fight the Nazis, but come on. He plays Luke like a fuckin fiddle. With the later recontextualization, Obiwan still clearly knows exactly what buttons to press to turn Luke into a guided weapon. But, in this film, I’d say all evidence points to a straight-up scam. In either case, that’s why Luke believes this man blipped out of existence and gets really distraught - while nobody else seems to notice or even care too much.
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Oct 1, 2020 04:41
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So ObiWan is a sinister Thufir Hawat type. That's fun.
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Oct 1, 2020 04:44
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The cunning, tricky old mentor is a pretty classic thing, though I'm not sure where it comes from. Master Roshi comes to mind. And Mr Miyagi.
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Oct 1, 2020 08:48
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Elfgames posted:no this is bad, awful the loving worst Oh it's bad, but there would at least be some kind of consistent thematic thread with the rest of the films. Instead there's nothing.
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Oct 1, 2020 09:20
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https://www.polygon.com/reviews/2020/10/1/21495929/star-wars-squadrons-review-ps4-xbox-one-pc-vr It’s good. Can’t loving wait!
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Oct 1, 2020 13:32
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Alchenar posted:With just a little hindsight you can reach backwards from that scene, make the trilogy about a race to find the long lost Force Temple of Eternal Life, and do some interesting stuff that ties in with the rest of the films. "The Light Side of the Force is a gateway to many abilities some find....organic."
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Oct 1, 2020 13:37
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With the power of the force, we can influence life itself, shape and control it Really?, says Kylo Ren, as he suddenly begins to grow ever wider
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Oct 1, 2020 16:45
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 Maybe Plageuis was on to something here
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Oct 1, 2020 16:52
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Vader seemed pretty confused about why Obi-Wan's corpse vanished.
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Oct 1, 2020 17:27
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Like, just going back to something I skipped earlier: I wrote that Obiwan’s death has a unique impact on Luke because Luke experiences it as a re-enactment of own father’s alleged death. In this way, Luke was uniquely primed to be fooled by an illusion. And then someone chimed in to say that’s dubious. Yeah this to me is what Obi means by "more powerful than you can possibly imagine" - it's not that he becomes a cool log-sitting ghost, it's that he becomes larger than life as an idea and a step toward Luke's radicalization
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Oct 1, 2020 17:33
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The reversal of the line in episode 8 is kind of a neat encapsulation of the difference between the original films and the sequels. "If you strike me down I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine"-he'll be a martyr to the cause "Strike me down in anger and I'll always be with you, just like your father"-Kylo Ren feels bad because he killed Han Solo, and he will feel bad if he kills Luke too. It refocuses the line to being more personal, which depoliticizes it
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Oct 1, 2020 17:49
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Episode 9 does deliver a final 'gently caress you' to the character of Anakin by making it that power over life and death isn't actually a sith force ability at all and apparently anyone can just go ahead and do it.
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Oct 1, 2020 17:58
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2house2fly posted:"Strike me down in anger and I'll always be with you, just like your father"-Kylo Ren feels bad because he killed Han Solo, and he will feel bad if he kills Luke too. It refocuses the line to being more personal, which depoliticizes it It's more than that, because the default stance of all these Disney movies is basically that anger is fascist - and you see that reflected in fans insisting that the First Order is fascist purely because they wear uniforms and shout a lot. The 'good' emotions are evidently, like, gentle paternalism and nonsexual affection. So you have this message from Uncle Luke that's like "yeah the New Republic was rife with injustice and I did very bad stuff to you when you were a kid - but that's no reason to be so angry." And of course, in reality, this thinking was effortlessly coopted by actual Nazis - who are suddenly all about "logic" and "facts don't care about your feelings" and whatever, using that as justification to crack down on protests against white supremacism. Ironically, the message of Leia's Resistance is 'stop resisting'.
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Oct 1, 2020 18:42
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Hamlet's Uncle appears to him in a vision, telling him not to kill his father
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Oct 1, 2020 19:15
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Something's Resisting in the state of Denmark.
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Oct 1, 2020 20:46
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Alchenar posted:Episode 9 does deliver a final 'gently caress you' to the character of Anakin by making it that power over life and death isn't actually a sith force ability at all and apparently anyone can just go ahead and do it. That's been true since ANH though, Obi-Wan is able to transcend death while Vader looks on in disbelief. In RotS Palpatine admits he doesn't know jack poo poo about immortality the second Anakin turns. The whole point was that the Sith, who want to live forever because they're selfish, can't do it. While the Jedi who accept the cycle of life and death, can.
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Oct 1, 2020 22:59
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galagazombie posted:That's been true since ANH though, Obi-Wan is able to transcend death while Vader looks on in disbelief. In RotS Palpatine admits he doesn't know jack poo poo about immortality the second Anakin turns. The whole point was that the Sith, who want to live forever because they're selfish, can't do it. While the Jedi who accept the cycle of life and death, can. obi wan transcends death but he's still dead he cant affect the real world in meaningful ways. the sequels poo poo all over this too cause they don't understand it.
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Oct 1, 2020 23:28
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The sand people actually kill Luke and Obi brings him back to life with a Force forehead massage
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Oct 1, 2020 23:38
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Instead of ever releasing the original versions, Disney does their own cuts of the OT to bring it in line with the sequel trilogy. Obi-wan revives Luke with a kiss.
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Oct 2, 2020 02:04
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Elfgames posted:obi wan transcends death but he's still dead he cant affect the real world in meaningful ways. the sequels poo poo all over this too cause they don't understand it. inexplicable ghost Han Solo inexplicablely convinced the First Orders Supreme leader around to be a good guy.
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Oct 2, 2020 10:53
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Healing wounds is pretty different from stopping death or resurrecting someone. Healing wounds has been shown in the old EU to be explicitly a light side power, while the latter has been shown to be Dark Side. The Force Ghost thing is neither, it's something that happens to a Jedi super in tune or 'One with the Force'. Hence why most pre-Order 66 Jedi didn't become Force Ghosts; they were ignoring the Force in favor of rigid traditionalism, as shown with Qui-Gon versus the Council in TPM.
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Oct 2, 2020 16:05
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Jokes were made about Qui-Gon being a hippie among the Jedi, but that does seem to be entirely intended, he's considered a loose cannon with weird ideas because he's one of the few actually in tune with the Force. Did find it interesting with the indications that the permanent Jedi Council members are Yoda and Mace Windu, both of which are exceptional and unusual Jedi; Yodi being eight hundred years old and Mace Windu having a philosophy and fighting style close to the Dark Side but not falling to it. Always felt like the Jedi turning inward was the start of their demise; a healthy Jedi Order can and should be in touch with different traditions and views of the Force across the galaxy, having a bigger tent and options for initiates to not have to give up everything they care about. Am reminded of an EU bit where a Sith splinter sect ended up perverting Sith training and trying to become Jedi as approached from the other side.
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Oct 2, 2020 17:20
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Healing wounds is pretty different from stopping death or resurrecting someone. Healing wounds has been shown in the old EU to be explicitly a light side power, while the latter has been shown to be Dark Side. the EU isn't real.
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Oct 2, 2020 17:40
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The Jedi Order failed cause they didn’t like Jedi gettin horny.
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Oct 2, 2020 17:41
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Cartoon Man posted:The Jedi Order failed cause they didn’t like Jedi gettin horny. the jedi order failed cause mace windu fell to the dark side.
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Oct 2, 2020 17:43
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Been said before, but maybe the original sin of the sequel trilogy is that at every turn, it shrinks the universe rather than expanding it.
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Oct 2, 2020 17:49
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The old EU had Luke Skywalker eventually learn "Good Guy Lighting, Its Okay When I Use It."
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Oct 2, 2020 20:05
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Shiroc posted:The old EU had Luke Skywalker eventually learn "Good Guy Lighting, Its Okay When I Use It." That was part of an era right after the whole Yuuzhan Vong thing where the writers got really up their own asses with the whole "Grey Jedi" malarky that angsty teenagers love that completely misunderstands how the Force works. This culminated in them outright saying there was no Dark Side so you could totally electrocute people if you were using it for good. Thankfully this led to a massive walk back where the readership was told that no the Dark Side is totally real and everyone thinking it wasn't was a secret Sith plot to corrupt them. This was followed by Han and Leia's son becoming a Sith and getting killed, so Luke goes to find out he was corrupted by Cthulu and goes to Space R'lyeh in his dreams to kill her. The post-RotJ era EU got really really bad at the end and was a huge part of why so many people (myself included) were so onboard with Disney purging the canon.
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Oct 3, 2020 04:26
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the vong should've been the end of the EU. everything after that is so far removed from star wars beyond a few names here and there that it's basically unrecognizable, and even the vong was pushing it.
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Oct 3, 2020 08:46
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Star Wars.
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Oct 3, 2020 10:09
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The assertion that telekinesis isn’t real is fairly uncontroversial. If the force isn't real the movie would demonstrate this by having it fail at some point. Obi Wan uses it to distract the Stormtroopers on the death star (who don't even know he's there) and I can't think of any possible reason that would be in the movie aside from showcasing the genuine existence of the force.
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Oct 3, 2020 10:17
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I'm 95% sure this conversation has been had before, but faster than light travel is arguably even more impossible than telekinesis.
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Oct 3, 2020 10:23
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SidneyIsTheKiller posted:If the force isn't real the movie would demonstrate this by having it fail at some point. This does notably happen at the start of episode 6.
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Oct 3, 2020 10:28
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Also, you can take movies at their word. If you're watching a movie called "Ted & Wanda: A Love Story" and all the dialog is about how Ted and Wanda love each other and it's filled with scenes of them kissing and it ends with Ted and Wanda getting married and the end credits feature a Whitney Houston song about love, but the actress who plays Wanda gives a flat performance, we can still deduce that Wanda does indeed love Ted. You don't have to go, "Wanda acts like a bad actress, obviously she doesn't really love Ted, in fact going by the way she talks like an actor giving stilted line readings, Wanda is lying or perhaps has a severe personality disorder. This movie is about an abusive relationship." No. We can intuit that the actress is simply giving an unconvincing performance and the movie is indeed a love story.
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Oct 3, 2020 10:43
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