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Who will you vote for in 2020? This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| Biden |
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425 | 18.06% |
| Trump |
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105 | 4.46% |
| whoever the Green Party runs |
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307 | 13.05% |
| GOOGLE RON PAUL |
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151 | 6.42% |
| Bernie Sanders |
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346 | 14.70% |
| Stalin |
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246 | 10.45% |
| Satan |
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300 | 12.75% |
| Nobody |
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202 | 8.58% |
| Jess Scarane |
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110 | 4.67% |
| mystery man Brian Carroll of the American Solidarity Party |
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61 | 2.59% |
| Dick Nixon |
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100 | 4.25% |
| Total: | 2089 votes | ||
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Epic High Five posted:it's never about them because we, as a nation beyond the fringe left, never talk about those people or consider their lives beyond "learn to code" What terminology would you suggest as a replacement, in that case?
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Oct 6, 2020 18:17
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moths posted:To clarify: You're asking if the Republicans who spoke at the DNC have influence with the Democrats? So only Republicans can use/dupe/exploit Democrats, but Democrats can't use/dupe/exploit Republicans? I'm not saying your take is implausible. But it could just as easily be that the Republicans had an axe to grind because they've been functionally exiled from their party, and the Dems were more than happy to give them a platform and exploit their grievances. I'm sure there is a transaction there, but there are more variations of transaction than merely "Republicans buy influence with DNC appearance."
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Oct 6, 2020 18:20
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DarkCrawler posted:The same slave girl that implicitly said Bill didn't do anything horrible poo poo to her? Or is there another one that I missed? Jesus, man. You really need to take a step back and look at some of the arguments you're making here. DarkCrawler posted:If your disgust leads to you becoming disgusting yourself, then I don't care what led you to it. Active Quasar fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Oct 6, 2020 |
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Oct 6, 2020 18:22
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Disnesquick posted:What terminology would you suggest as a replacement, in that case? precariat or working class edit - or I guess if we're looking for stuff you can put in a general audience broadcast, "abandoned by the modern economy" or similar would work. Just emphasis on some kind of phrasing that doesn't make people out to be crazy people just because they correctly believe they have been left to die by capital
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Oct 6, 2020 18:24
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Epic High Five posted:precariat or working class I don't think either really captures the longer-term precarity though. I'd call the people worrying about next month's bills the precariat, rather than people worrying their job will be off-shored sometime in the next couple of years. And working-class captures both sub-groups. Epic High Five posted:Just emphasis on some kind of phrasing that doesn't make people out to be crazy people just because they correctly believe they have been left to die by capital Yes, I agree with that. edit: To expand on that I think the division could be described as being between the working-class who have already been abandoned vs the working-class who know that they will soon be abandoned. Active Quasar fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Oct 6, 2020 |
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Oct 6, 2020 18:26
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Grayly Squirrel posted:So only Republicans can use/dupe/exploit Democrats, but Democrats can't use/dupe/exploit Republicans? Yes, that is completely correct. Well, I suppose it’s possible they can and simply won’t, but the difference between can’t and won’t here is academic.
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Oct 6, 2020 18:43
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Grayly Squirrel posted:So only Republicans can use/dupe/exploit Democrats, but Democrats can't use/dupe/exploit Republicans? Politicians don't generally get "used" like this. Politics as practiced is almost entirely transactional, so claiming that this time these politicians are actually commiting to doing something for nothing makes you seem naive. Unless you actually think Rick Snyder or John Kasich or Meg Whitman are acting out of a crisis of conscience to stop Trump from harming the fabric of the nation. If that's what you believe, you aren't so much naive as practically childlike in your understanding of the world. They've extracted promises for their support, but you won't know what those promises are until it's too late to do anything about it. And no, they haven't been "exiled." Plenty of mainstream Republicans have figured out how to work with Trump, and outside of his general incompetence Trump hasn't been all that different from a typical Republican president in his policy. They haven't been exiled, they have just chosen the side that they find personally advantageous and are using Trump's boorishness as a cover for doing so. Edit: best case scenario? They joined up with Biden because they assumed he's going to win and want to curry favor, but haven't yet gotten any actual policy/appointment commitments. The bad news there for the left is that Biden values loyalty and Republicans very highly, so if that's the plan it's a good one. Wicked Them Beats fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Oct 6, 2020 |
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Oct 6, 2020 18:44
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e: nevermind
Phone fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Oct 6, 2020 |
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Oct 6, 2020 18:45
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Grayly Squirrel posted:So only Republicans can use/dupe/exploit Democrats, but Democrats can't use/dupe/exploit Republicans? The DNC, Joe Biden, and the Republicans making these appearances are all on the same team. They're cooperating because they want the same things.
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Oct 6, 2020 18:49
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The Oldest Man posted:The DNC, Joe Biden, and the Republicans making these appearances are all on the same team. They're cooperating because they want the same things. "Yeah, to get Trump out of office!" Oh if that were the full extent of the shared goal.
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Oct 6, 2020 18:51
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The Oldest Man posted:The DNC, Joe Biden, and the Republicans making these appearances are all on the same team. They're cooperating because they want the same things. Exhibit A: if you sat down Neera Tanden, Colin Powell, Rick Snyder, and Joe Biden and presented this to them, I think they’d all be in pretty broad agreement that this is good policy to guide American intervention in the middle-east: 
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Oct 6, 2020 18:54
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400,000 a year, barely pocket change https://twitter.com/CNBC/status/1313489245823283201?s=20
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Oct 6, 2020 18:55
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Grayly Squirrel posted:I'm sure there is a transaction there, but there are more variations of transaction than merely "Republicans buy influence with DNC appearance." It's not "Republicans buy influence with DNC appearance," it's "Republican influence evidenced by DNC appearance." They had to have already held some sway and leverage to get on stage.
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Oct 6, 2020 18:56
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https://twitter.com/JocelynRhynard/status/1313453362218762240?s=19 Spot the chud
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Oct 6, 2020 18:57
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Politicians don't generally get "used" like this. Politics as practiced is almost entirely transactional, so claiming that this time these politicians are actually commiting to doing something for nothing makes you seem naive. Unless you actually think Rick Snyder or John Kasich or Meg Whitman are acting out of a crisis of conscience to stop Trump from harming the fabric of the nation. If that's what you believe, you aren't so much naive as practically childlike in your understanding of the world. They've extracted promises for their support, but you won't know what those promises are until it's too late to do anything about it. From working in politics, yes, its been my experience that everything is transactional. But these are human beings, not House of Cards-esque robots. Sometimes the transaction is merely a childish "gently caress that guy, I want to hurt him." Or "I'm out of the GOP power structure so long as Trump and his sycophants are running things." I never said its just out of the goodness of their hearts or some moral crises of conscience-- that is (condescending) projection on your part. There is a lot of conclusory handwaving here from the NoJoe crowd that seems entirely based on the premise that you neither like nor trust Biden and the DNC. Thats all well and good, and I'm not even challenging you on those reasons or beliefs. But there is no reason to be so certain that the only kind of transaction that occurred there was the one where the GOP bought access or favor with Biden by speaking at the DNC.
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Oct 6, 2020 18:57
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Bishyaler posted:400,000 a year, barely pocket change The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that income is wealth.
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Oct 6, 2020 18:59
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Fly Molo posted:Exhibit A: if you sat down Neera Tanden, Colin Powell, Rick Snyder, and Joe Biden and presented this to them, I think they’d all be in pretty broad agreement that this is good policy to guide American intervention in the middle-east: Wow, using the product of Russian hacking to argue against the democrats, right wing talking point much Boris?
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Oct 6, 2020 19:01
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e: nm i had a poo poo for brains moment
Lib and let die fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Oct 6, 2020 |
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Oct 6, 2020 19:05
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Grayly Squirrel posted:But there is no reason to be so certain that the only kind of transaction that occurred there was the one where the GOP bought access or favor with Biden by speaking at the DNC. For the second time now: That wasn't a purchase of influence, it was a demonstration of it.
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Oct 6, 2020 19:07
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Grayly Squirrel posted:From working in politics, yes, its been my experience that everything is transactional. You're gonna need to present some evidence then that Rick "Poisoned an entire town" Snyder is appalled at Trump's behavior and is deadset on taking him down a peg. I really don't believe that these people are so much opposed to Trump as they are seeing an opportunity with Biden.
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Oct 6, 2020 19:07
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Marx Was A Lib posted:That's like 4x what my wife and I make annually, combined.
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Oct 6, 2020 19:12
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moths posted:For the second time now: That wasn't a purchase of influence, it was a demonstration of it. Thats just a bare assertion that doesn't logically follow. Why? Wicked Them Beats posted:You're gonna need to present some evidence then that Rick "Poisoned an entire town" Snyder is appalled at Trump's behavior and is deadset on taking him down a peg. I really don't believe that these people are so much opposed to Trump as they are seeing an opportunity with Biden. He doesn't need to be appalled. He just needs to feel left out. Or, in his case, just needed a platform for a bit of performative theater to check "moderate" and "respectable" boxes on his resume to help gin up a more clients for his post-political career as a consultant. That last bit was some simple googling, and it already seems more plausible to me than "he was buying political influence for the GOP agenda in the DNC platform and the Biden presidency and everyone is ok with that."
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Oct 6, 2020 19:13
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Marx Was A Lib posted:That's like 4x what my wife and I make annually, combined. poo poo, dude. I wish my partner and I were making close to that much.
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Oct 6, 2020 19:14
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DarkCrawler posted:The same slave girl that implicitly said Bill didn't do anything horrible poo poo to her? Or is there another one that I missed? See this is exactly where lesser-evilism leads and why it fails.
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Oct 6, 2020 19:15
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Josh Lyman posted:Umm you read the headline completely backwards. Biden says 400k is wealthy and it’s CNBC that’s arguing otherwise. ah, my wonderful poo poo-for-brains in the driver's seat again. thanks.
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Oct 6, 2020 19:16
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Citing 400,000 as clearly wealthy seems like a grab at the "1%" catchphrase that is easily understandable by the average American. It's not that those making less aren't also well off to very rich depending where they live, just that it's harder to market 5% of earners or higher or something like that.
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Oct 6, 2020 19:17
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DarkCrawler posted:Mhm, here we go. They are up for debate. I think the whole "believe all women" stuff was kinda dumb in the first place because uh, the fact that they're a ridiculously tiny minority of cases does not mean that false accusations don't exist, sorry. I don't know what else to say here? Is this thread really claiming that literally nobody ever is falsely accused? Because that particular article of faith is quite easy to debunk just utilizing some sordid chapters of American history... The fact that there’s a ridiculously small number of false cases is exactly why you believe accusers. The fact that the majority of cases, period, go nowhere, and lead to nothing but persistent harassment and character assassination, is why you believe them. We had this loving conversation years ago after the Weinstein poo poo came out, and during the Kavanaugh hearings, and here you are demonstrating how thoroughly we’ve stepped backwards. quote:I think powerful abusers, as #MeToo has shown us, have a pattern of abusing. Biden has had at least seven other women accuse him of inappropriate touching and invasion of their personal space. Maybe you shouldn’t approach this conversation if you don’t know what you’re talking about. And maybe you shouldn’t hold such ignorant, disgusting opinions while you’re trying to argue that Trump supporters are irredeemable monsters! Looks like he got probed while I was editing. Good. misadventurous fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Oct 6, 2020 |
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Oct 6, 2020 19:18
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the funniest part of those "you just cannot live here if you make less than 500k!" articles is that 95% of whatever city they're talking about somehow manages to scrape by on 1/10th or less of that amount but it's just like....never discussed what they're talking about of course, is how much it costs to access the or even just imitate the upper levels of society within those cities while living a life free of financial worry beyond luxury and discretionary spending
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Oct 6, 2020 19:21
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Grayly Squirrel posted:Thats just a bare assertion that doesn't logically follow. Go try to speak at the DNC. Or the RNC! What, you cannot? Why do you think that is?
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Oct 6, 2020 19:22
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moths posted:Go try to speak at the DNC. Or the RNC! What, you cannot? Why do you think that is? Please try to debate civilly. Its obvious why I wouldn't speak at the DNC. I'm not a DNC politician. But, more importantly I didn't have anything to offer the DNC. Even as an "average person," I didn't have a story they wanted told or amplified for this particular election cycle. If I did, however-- lets say, I check a lot of demographic boxes, look good on camera, charismatic, good public speaking skills, no skeletons in the closet, etc-- and have a really good life story about a close family member dying of COVID, for example, I probably could have spoken. And things like exactly that happened at the DNC. You seem to be mistaking barriers to access as some kind of example of already purchased favor. There just isn't that kind of ironclad relationship there. If the DNC wants you to speak, suddenly those barriers fall away. So if I'm a former or disgruntled GOP, and want to speak at the DNC for my own purposes, suddenly those barriers will disappear-- because the DNC sees an advantage in having me speak. My purposes, motives, and background will be vetted. And if that comes back clean, I speak. All of that can happen without any pre-purchased favor or hidden pre-existing leverage.
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Oct 6, 2020 19:31
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I love that the biden tax plan has all sorts of generally pretty good things in it so this thread had to rush to mangle it into "actually biden said if you make 300,000 a year you are poor" because engaging in the fact biden plans to raise taxes on the top two tax brackets ruins the idea biden will never do anything a leftist might like. Other highlights: -Increases the corporate income tax rate from 21 percent to 28 percent.[5] -Caps the tax benefit of itemized deductions to 28 percent of value for those earning more than $400,000, which means that taxpayers earning above that income threshold with tax rates higher than 28 percent would face limited itemized deductions. -Imposes a 12.4 percent Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance (Social Security) payroll tax on income earned above $400,000 -Taxes long-term capital gains and qualified dividends at the ordinary income tax rate of 39.6 percent on income above $1 million and eliminates step-up in basis for capital gains taxation Like it's not full communism now but it's clearly leftmoving tax policy, but since we can't have that someone's gotta figure out a hot take that actually biden said only 400,000 a year is rich. To preserve the idea biden is identical to trump on this stuff.
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Oct 6, 2020 19:32
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Bishyaler posted:400,000 a year, barely pocket change My favorite part of this genre of reporting is how livid the people who report the news get at the assertion that they're part of the elite. After all, they're just regular people dealing with the same kitchen table issues as everyone else. After maxing retirement contributions, covering their kid's elite private school costs, buying a few BMWs, and then taking a six week annual vacation to a tropical island they only have 10% of their income left over to do anything fun with!
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Oct 6, 2020 19:34
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Like it's not full communism now but it's clearly leftmoving tax policy, but since we can't have that someone's gotta figure out a hot take that actually biden said only 400,000 a year is rich. To preserve the idea biden is identical to trump on this stuff. You might have missed the memo, but "[the] leftist[s]" are pretty sick and loving tired of the hollow promises of "leftmoving [x] policy" election cycle after election cycle has only pulled the political machine further to the right.
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Oct 6, 2020 19:35
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Epic High Five posted:the funniest part of those "you just cannot live here if you make less than 500k!" articles is that 95% of whatever city they're talking about somehow manages to scrape by on 1/10th or less of that amount but it's just like....never discussed Every time this income topic comes up I'm going to quote this again because income inequality (though a very real thing) is a tactic to ensure that public debate about inequality focuses on the disparity between the poor, the working class, and the PMC and never touches these people. A debate solely about wages automatically excludes any discussion about real money as the people who have it define it. quote:Vanamee consulted experts to estimate the "happiness number" for a hypothetical, wealthy, non-working couple in their 40s with two teenage kids in an expensive private school in New York City. They live in a parkside Fifth Avenue apartment, buy art, take private jets, donate to charity, and have a household staff — a chef, a driver, and a housekeeper — plus two vacation homes. They're also setting aside $25 million for each child to inherit.
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Oct 6, 2020 19:35
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That article's the same recycled garbage that gets pumped out every once in a while, where a family living in an extremely high cost of living area with two infants, after paying a mortgage on a seven figure house and doing all the savings and paying for insurance that actually leaves you and your kids safe from financial disaster and paying for private education through college, doesn't have a ton of cash left over.quote:“Based on the expenses, a $400,000 household income provides for a relatively middle-class lifestyle,” Dogen said. “A middle-class lifestyle is defined as: owning a home, having two kids, saving for retirement, saving for college, going on modest vacations several weeks a year, and retiring in one’s early 60s.” So yeah, if you fiddle with your definitions a bit, a family earning more than the annual median individual income every month somehow counts as in some kind of middle.
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Oct 6, 2020 19:35
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Other highlights: Reminder that the rate under Obama was 35% so this is actually Joe locking in half of Trump's tax cuts. And that's his initial pitch before negotiations start, lol.
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Oct 6, 2020 19:36
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Reminder that the rate under Obama was 35% so this is actually Joe locking in half of Trump's tax cuts. Even more starkly, the rate under Reagan was 46%. Leftmoving tax policy indeed.
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Oct 6, 2020 19:41
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Eminai posted:Even more starkly, the rate under Reagan was 46%. Leftmoving tax policy indeed. Looking forward to a Dem president in 2048 moving the rate from 3% to 7% and being told that this is progress.
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Oct 6, 2020 19:43
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:-Increases the corporate income tax rate from 21 percent to 28 percent. Do you think, if Biden wins, it'll ever go back above 30 percent?
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Oct 6, 2020 19:48
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Epic High Five posted:the funniest part of those "you just cannot live here if you make less than 500k!" articles is that 95% of whatever city they're talking about somehow manages to scrape by on 1/10th or less of that amount but it's just like....never discussed Wouldn't the $400k folks get accused of gentrification if they moved into a cheaper neighborhood?
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Oct 6, 2020 19:50
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