|
Another thing. The cops stole Dee's ability to speak with her voice about what was happening to her, so instead she is drawing it out for everyone to see at the end. Looking at the writers' twitter feeds, they intentionally choose not to recreate the violence committed upon Emitt's body onto a black actor (because the real photos of that violence already exist) but instead had it committed upon a white actress just in case there are still people who are not getting the point of this show. Anonymous Zebra fucked around with this message at 08:39 on Oct 5, 2020 |
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 08:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 23:48 |
|
|
Wolfsheim posted:Tonight's episode was kind of great? It had the first instance of actual deeply unsettling supernatural horror (Diana), it had extreme catharsis (the last two minutes) and it showed how rich white indifference is in some ways as bad as hatred and malice (Christina). Yeah, Diana’s plot was legitimately terrifying and very well done. I read it as a comment on the ways racist white institutions weaponize demonic or inhuman portrayals of black people to perpetrate violence against them invisibly. Emmett Till is not different from Tamir Rice or Trayvon Martin. They are all literal children whose brutal murders were “justified” using a false racist narrative. “They looked aggressive,” “they attacked first,” “they behaved like animals.” White America continues to frame these atrocities as inherently justified because they’re still so willing to see black people as monstrous. A 12-year-old with a toy deserved to die because he looked threatening to an adult police officer. It makes sense that the form of Diana’s demons was Topsy, a sort of twisted doppelgänger of a young black girl, summoned from a racist story written by a white woman and sent after her by racist cops. It also makes sense that when Diana tried to point this out to anyone else, she looked crazy because the grotesque parody of blackness stalking her was invisible to white people.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 09:55
|
|
|
This was a great episode, but I'm glad I got to watch it during day-time, because the monster design this episode was genuinely horrifying to me  And I don't mean the shoggoth, although that thing is plenty scary too.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 12:25
|
|
|
As a person who loves scary stories but hates being scared I really appreciate this approach to horror Also anyone want to speculate about Christina hiring people to kill her like bobo?
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 13:11
|
|
|
The shot with the two demon-kids strolling down the alley towards Dee (while she is looking at the policemen) was some grade A horror. It remindend me a bit of the scene in Get Out when Chris is getting a smoke out of the house at night and the body-swapped sprinter grandpa runs towards/next to him. Speaking of Lovecraftian horror, I find the concept of something non immediately supernatural but definitely "out of place" slowly coming at you extremely chilling. Alone in the Dark gave me the same kind of feeling when I was a kid, cause the monsters were not hidden in shadows or suddenly jumping out of out of frame with a cat scare - you could see these weird things slowly moving towards in plain sight. The primitive 3d models and the terrible tank controls and weird camera angles were definitely adding to the "wtf is that thing" and "I can't run away" elements for sure.
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 15:52
|
|
anothergod posted:Also anyone want to speculate about Christina hiring people to kill her like bobo? I would say she has somewhat been touched by Ruby's talk, even if she has tried to shoot it down. Ruby has told her that she could never understand what it was to be her, and I guess Christina's reaction is to get lynched to try to grasp what that is like. Completely missing the point, by the way, since the horrible violence is just the final part of the systemic problem Ruby was talking about. Christina is so removed from her reality that, even if we want to ascribe good faith to her actions, she simply cannot understand what Ruby is talking about. E: quote is not edit.
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 15:56
|
|
|
anothergod posted:Also anyone want to speculate about Christina hiring people to kill her like bobo? I think Christina is too self obsessed and indifferent to the plight of black people to do it out of sympathy. My personal theory is that she went through the same experience as a means to tap into the collective mourning and rage regarding Till's murder as a source of energy, similar to how Titus created the Sons of Adam to harness the belief/energy of the order with all the pomp and circumstance.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 17:51
|
|
Hate-O-Tron posted:I think Christina is too self obsessed and indifferent to the plight of black people to do it out of sympathy. It may just be for her to be able to go back to Ruby and tell her "look what I did!" in order to gain her sympaties again. Of course, this is missing the point by a thousand miles.
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 18:08
|
|
|
It does seem like Christina wants to understand what Ruby faces. I hope she comes out of this with more understanding and sympathy and that it's not just part of an evil plan.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 19:00
|
|
|
Fantastic episode. The show has bounced around a bunch of different genres (creepy cult, haunted house, Indiana Jones, Korean horror), but this felt like the first true classic horror episode that actually creeped me out. I also love that the protection spell on the house keeps coming up.Hate-O-Tron posted:I think Christina is too self obsessed and indifferent to the plight of black people to do it out of sympathy. This was my take as well. It fits with her characterization, and "white people co-opting the suffering of black people to further their own ends" is 100% in line with the show's themes.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 19:41
|
|
|
anothergod posted:Also anyone want to speculate about Christina hiring people to kill her like bobo? It's like an extreme version of a wealthy 20-something who goes slumming--basically that "Common People" song--but with murder and magic.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 20:15
|
|
|
AtraMorS posted:Rather than sympathy, I think what got to Christina is the idea that she could never understand something. Like, when Ruby told her that she couldn't do something, she took that poo poo as a challenge; she's white and she knows magic, so she should be able to do whatever she wants. So she recreates the lynching thinking the brutality and pain is the point. She doesn't understand that she's missing the terror that Emmett felt and that would've rippled through the black community right alongside the outrage and despair and everything else. She can't feel that fear because even as she's being beaten, it's still all under her control. Yeah, she can't possibly replicate that level of powerlessness, on an individual or community level. She knew she wasn't actually going to die, and was fundamentally in control of what was happening to her. White people "slumming it," sure. It made me think of white people who make "reverse racism" arguments. "A black person once called me an ethnic slur, so I have experienced racism." There's this bad faith sense that somehow being called a Karen is comparable to being called the n-word, as it looks like those experiences share some common feature if you ignore all context. The obvious difference is that calling a black person the n-word carries with it the full implied force of an entire system built around white supremacy. If someone at Starbucks calls you a Karen, you can take your business elsewhere. You can't take your business elsewhere when confronted by white supremacy. There is no elsewhere; the power structure as it is has permeated everything.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 20:47
|
|
|
Grem posted:Is anyone else having a hard time understanding these characters? Some talk too low, or not enunciated. I've had some hearing damage a decade ago and I can't tell if it's finally catching up to me or if it's intentional. Yeah I'm watching it on NOW TV in the UK and I have to constantly shift the volume up a significant amount from my TV's normal setting to hear people talking then push it back down during action or instrumental sections as those bits are now too loud.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 22:31
|
|
|
Just watched all of this last night after reading the book a few years ago. I had forgotten everything in the book besides what happens in the first two episodes so the rest was a nice surprise for me. Last night's was definitely one of my favorite episodes and probably one of the only occasions where I've been genuinely scared in a classic horror movie type way while watching this show. Lots of other things were disturbing (Ruby's final scene with Mr Hughes especially) but not necessarily scary. I really like all the actors in this show (even Christina!) and I'm really enjoying it. Hippolyta's episode it made me want to reread that part of the book - I remember something different about it and me reacting to it differently when I read it but looking at the summary on Wikipedia I don't remember that either.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 23:22
|
|
|
Just as a quick aside, Christina actually turned off her invulnerability during that beating, which was why those guys could even touch her. She manages to activate it again after getting dunked in the water, but for a brief moment there she could have actually died. I'm still trying to understand what she was doing in that scene, but I just wanted to point out that she didn't have complete control and if she had gotten knocked out or otherwise been unable to speak then she could have actually died.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2020 23:37
|
|
|
Anonymous Zebra posted:
To know what it feels like.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2020 00:13
|
|
|
Harlock posted:To know what it feels like. I think that's pretty clear but to me her motivation for wanting to know what it feels like is still unknown (setting aside the fact that just the act of violence doesn't capture everything Ruby was talking about). Does she, like AtraMorS said, just want to cross this off her list of Things She Knows? Does she want Ruby to respect her? Did Ruby actually manage to make her feel bad?
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2020 00:50
|
|
|
Okay, listen guys, I complained about the last few episodes turning me off of the show. But this episode was top notch and brought me back. BTW, the sex scene gore was some of the best special effects I’ve seen in a long time. My jaw was on the floor as to how they even thought up that scene.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2020 01:59
|
|
|
Anonymous Zebra posted:Just as a quick aside, Christina actually turned off her invulnerability during that beating, which was why those guys could even touch her. She manages to activate it again after getting dunked in the water, but for a brief moment there she could have actually died. I missed that, but it makes sense. I hope Christina's motives end up making sense and being interesting. I can stand the police captain being a flat villain, but I feel that we should see more in Christina and so far I haven't cared about her, though what I've seen on this thread today has made me realize there might be something more about her.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2020 03:03
|
|
|
Anonymous Zebra posted:Just as a quick aside, Christina actually turned off her invulnerability during that beating, which was why those guys could even touch her. She manages to activate it again after getting dunked in the water, but for a brief moment there she could have actually died. Also, we don't really know what her trigger was. She spoke something to deactivate the protection, but she had planned to go underwater with barbed wire tied around her neck. Presumably she would've planned for a not-being-able-to-speak outcome.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2020 03:11
|
|
|
Ruby's actress owns. Wunmi Mosaku, never heard of her before this
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2020 04:02
|
|
|
The Chicago American Giants baseball cap was a nice touch.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2020 04:03
|
|
|
Doltos posted:Ruby's actress owns. Wunmi Mosaku, never heard of her before this She's very good in the second season of In The Flesh. That's where I primarily know her from at least.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2020 05:05
|
|
|
ruddiger posted:The Chicago American Giants baseball cap was a nice touch.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2020 05:15
|
|
|
Doltos posted:Ruby's actress owns. Wunmi Mosaku, never heard of her before this She was in the Wyatt Russel Black Mirror episode "Playtest" as the one who was running the test. She was also Idris Elba's partner in the really lovely last season of Luther. She's probably my favorite character in this series, she's doing an awesome job.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2020 15:57
|
|
|
Yeah that scene across from the lovely actress from Neon Demon was awesome. Midway through the scene I was thinking that she didn't actually seem that fully engaged with the lynching, like she felt kinda empty being outraged by it. Then lo and behold that's the reveal at the end of the scene. That's super hard to do when you're crying and yelling about something, especially as serious as a lynching. Her character seems the most complex out of everyone on the show too.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2020 18:22
|
|
|
These last two episodes have been amazing, probably my favorite yet. I appreciated the shout out to the differences between the show and the book, nice touch there. This episode also proves, to me, how strong this show is when drawing from the source material rather than adding unnecessary things (succubus).
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2020 04:06
|
|
FastestGunAlive posted:These last two episodes have been amazing, probably my favorite yet. I appreciated the shout out to the differences between the show and the book, nice touch there. This episode also proves, to me, how strong this show is when drawing from the source material rather than adding unnecessary things (succubus). Ah, I was wondering if the changes Tic mentions to their stories were stuff that was in the original book to begin with, thanks for confirming it 
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2020 09:56
|
|
|
Xealot posted:Yeah, she can't possibly replicate that level of powerlessness, on an individual or community level. She knew she wasn't actually going to die, and was fundamentally in control of what was happening to her. This clip from Jane Elliott's "Angry Eye" documentary went around a while back but is a perfect encapsulation of this dynamic. https://twitter.com/JuggernautBG/status/1268183226415288327?s=20
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2020 10:55
|
|
|
Goddamn the sex scenes in this show keep managing to outdo itself. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 03:24
|
|
|
Is it just me or was the Ji-Ah scene in this episode poorly written? The dialogue where Tic for some reason asks whether she is a succubus, and she explains the nine tails thing, it was just extremely akward and felt like it was added at the last second, because the writers needed to explain what was going on in that Korea episode . Leti storming off for no reason didn't help.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 08:56
|
|
Oasx posted:Is it just me or was the Ji-Ah scene in this episode poorly written? The dialogue where Tic for some reason asks whether she is a succubus, and she explains the nine tails thing, it was just extremely akward and felt like it was added at the last second, because the writers needed to explain what was going on in that Korea episode . Leti storming off for no reason didn't help. I'm under the impression that it was a nod to the book? I think she is a succubus in it, by what someone else in the thread was saying; still, a weird scene. E: vvvv then I'm at a loss. That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 11:09 on Oct 8, 2020 |
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 10:17
|
|
|
That Italian Guy posted:I'm under the impression that it was a nod to the book? I think she is a succubus in it, by what someone else in the thread was saying; still, a weird scene. Ji-ah isn't in the book at all.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 10:27
|
|
|
It seemed weird that all they talked to ji-ah about was tic's love life when they could have asked her more about the supernatural world, or even asked if there was some way for her to help instead of just shutting her down. It was like they forgot their lives are delicately suspended in a web of weird monsters and magic, and maybe having one on their side could be helpful Like maybe she didnt know anything because she had no points of reference for what she saw in the vision, but if they filled her in and showed her some stuff she would be able to connect the dots Also I just kinda hate that cliche of a years gone ex showing up and the new person immediately flipping out
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 14:32
|
|
|
100% agree with you Bismuth. I hope they treat the Ji-Ah arc as something interesting as opposed to, idk, a way to flavor Tic's past. Spoilers for this last episode: Was her suicide self murder thing a genuine (if wildly flawed) attempt to understand the plight of black people? Or is she actually the only remaining big bad?
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 14:57
|
|
|
Atticus is played like such a reactionary hothead. It's kind of hard to like the guy, I'll be honest. I like that they are flavoring the protagonist with flaws, but ... I kind of wish this show was more Hippolyta and George. I think the guide is a fine enough and solid enough idea for traveling and seeing cool stories. This is a good show, though. If you are on the fence even a little, give it a shot. E: Ruby is also fantastic. Curious about that actress' new project... something like "His House"?
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 15:20
|
|
|
Are people always concerned about having likeable heroes? I generally feel like most TV I've watched for a while has heroes w/ obvious flaws that are overcome by likeability. Tic seems like completely the opposite. He's very likeable up front but his flaws eat away at that. I feel like that is intentional.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 15:24
|
|
|
I should've read back a few pages before posting. Everyone here seems really eager to get their feelings hurt. Yes, it's good and intentional. Starved for good genre tv, and this is fine and good. Firstborn fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Oct 8, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 15:29
|
|
|
Life is pretty boring if you go through it expecting nothing but roses
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 16:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 23:48 |
|
|
anothergod posted:Are people always concerned about having likeable heroes? I generally feel like most TV I've watched for a while has heroes w/ obvious flaws that are overcome by likeability. Tic seems like completely the opposite. He's very likeable up front but his flaws eat away at that. I feel like that is intentional. Protagonists have to be at a minimum either interesting or sympathetic.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 16:17
|
|
