Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

New Canadian SAR aircraft delivery flight

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

"Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"
Here, have *all* the stop-motion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKOIAM9BcWQ

Skip to 1:10 to actually get to the action.

Kia Soul Enthusias
May 9, 2004

zoom-zoom
Toilet Rascal
That's some spicy piloting!

Funny, I thought Lufthansa was retiring their A340s, but I saw a -300 flying over me the other day and it appears it's still making regular flights from Frankfurt to Seattle and even to Singapore sometimes. D-AIGZ. Must not have got the chopping block yet.

rscott
Dec 10, 2009
https://barnfinds.com/twin-plug-plane-1988-mooney-m20l-pfm/

What's the TBO on a Porsche flat 6?

marumaru
May 20, 2013



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18x38IMAwrY

meltie
Nov 9, 2003

Not a sodding fridge.

Charles posted:

That's some spicy piloting!

Funny, I thought Lufthansa was retiring their A340s, but I saw a -300 flying over me the other day and it appears it's still making regular flights from Frankfurt to Seattle and even to Singapore sometimes. D-AIGZ. Must not have got the chopping block yet.

According to the flightradar24 podcast they are keeping a couple.

I think it was in the latest episode: https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/avtalk-episode-94-what-a-mess/

azflyboy
Nov 9, 2005

Not sure what TBO is, but there's essentially zero parts available (Porsche stopped production in 1991, surrendered the type certificate and abandoned all support in 2007, and there's no aftermarket), and the FAA has put out documents basically telling owners that the airplanes will be considered airworthy if they meet the original airworthiness requirements, but good luck with that.

Porsche knew the engines were going to bite them in the rear end down the line, so they set up a program to convert airplanes to other engines (with Porsche paying 70% of the cost) to reduce their liability, and they also destroyed several stocks of spare parts to further reduce future legal issues.

My understanding is that he FAA will allow owners to install equivalent replacement parts for stuff like valve springs (after jumping through a lot of hoops), from non-approved manufacturers, since there are some regulations in place for aircraft that end up "orphaned" by the manufacturer.

azflyboy fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Oct 7, 2020

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

azflyboy posted:

Not sure what TBO is, but there's essentially zero parts available (Porsche stopped production in 1991, surrendered the type certificate and abandoned all support in 2007, and there's no aftermarket), and the FAA has put out documents basically telling owners that the airplanes will be considered airworthy if they meet the original airworthiness requirements, but good luck with that.

Porsche knew the engines were going to bite them in the rear end down the line, so they set up a program to convert airplanes to other engines (with Porsche paying 70% of the cost) to reduce their liability, and they also destroyed several stocks of spare parts to further reduce future legal issues.

My understanding is that he FAA will allow owners to install equivalent replacement parts for stuff like valve springs (after jumping through a lot of hoops), from non-approved manufacturers, since there are some regulations in place for aircraft that end up "orphaned" by the manufacturer.

Those regs are a lot more effective at keeping orphaned airframes in the air than they are at keeping orphaned engines in the air. Porsche Mooneys with the original engine are curios at this point, sadly.

:(

azflyboy
Nov 9, 2005
I assume that's because most airframe components last a long time, and are usually nothing more complex than curved bits of metal/composite/wood, or fasteners or brackets made from those same things, so a skilled amateur can probably make them if they can't find someone to do it for them.

It's probably a hell of a lot harder to find a supplier for something like a piston or crankshaft that involves complex metallurgy and precision machining (to say nothing of potential liability), especially when those parts get worn out way faster than anything on the airframe.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

azflyboy posted:

I assume that's because most airframe components last a long time, and are usually nothing more complex than curved bits of metal/composite/wood, or fasteners or brackets made from those same things, so a skilled amateur can probably make them if they can't find someone to do it for them.

It's probably a hell of a lot harder to find a supplier for something like a piston or crankshaft that involves complex metallurgy and precision machining (to say nothing of potential liability), especially when those parts get worn out way faster than anything on the airframe.

Say what you like about Jack Roush, but his company has done an enormous service for the warbird community generally and the Merlin community specifically, keeping otherwise unsupported engines in the air.

azflyboy
Nov 9, 2005
I didn't realize anyone was doing new PMA parts for Merlins. I assume they're hellishly expensive, even relative to "normal" airplane parts.

azflyboy fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Oct 8, 2020

wzm
Dec 12, 2004
I hired someone to fly my new Pitts away and help me with transition training once it's closer to home. I spent yesterday watching the ground speed from the ADS-B out, and I'm excited about the 150-180 mph cruise speeds. On climb out the ADS-B reports 1400 fpm at a 120 knots cruise climb, and seemed to peak at 2000 fpm.

azflyboy posted:

It's probably a hell of a lot harder to find a supplier for something like a piston or crankshaft that involves complex metallurgy and precision machining (to say nothing of potential liability), especially when those parts get worn out way faster than anything on the airframe.

There are new Franklin, Warner, and probably Ranger parts being made, but those engines fill a niche that the Porsche aircraft engines didn't. FAR §21.303(b)2 covers this situation, an aircraft owner can produce parts for an aircraft, and I bet you can find a machine shop in the US that will make everything except the castings. What does the FAA mean by owner supplied parts?

http://www.velocolutions.com/FAA-owner-manufactured-part.pdf

"The owner provided the manufacturer with design or performance data from which to manufacture the part. (This may occur, for instance, where a person provided a part to the manufacturer and asked that the part be duplicated".

If you owned that plane, you could replace piston rings and stuff, provided you had some detailed involvement in specing them out or manufacturing them. Your A&P could not do the same. The A&P signing the paperwork and installing the part (which the owner can't do without A&P supervision) should be really careful in making sure you did your homework with the part, and better make sure it's airworthy. If they sign off on your beer can gaskets, they fail, and you have an accident, the FAA will be coming for their license.

None of that is probably worthwhile, if that plane wasn't priced so high, it would be getting a Continental installed like all the other Porsche-Mooneys.

Humphreys
Jan 26, 2013

We conceived a way to use my mother as a porn mule


wzm posted:

I hired someone to fly my new Pitts away and help me with transition training once it's closer to home. I spent yesterday watching the ground speed from the ADS-B out, and I'm excited about the 150-180 mph cruise speeds. On climb out the ADS-B reports 1400 fpm at a 120 knots cruise climb, and seemed to peak at 2000 fpm.


There are new Franklin, Warner, and probably Ranger parts being made, but those engines fill a niche that the Porsche aircraft engines didn't. FAR §21.303(b)2 covers this situation, an aircraft owner can produce parts for an aircraft, and I bet you can find a machine shop in the US that will make everything except the castings. What does the FAA mean by owner supplied parts?

http://www.velocolutions.com/FAA-owner-manufactured-part.pdf

"The owner provided the manufacturer with design or performance data from which to manufacture the part. (This may occur, for instance, where a person provided a part to the manufacturer and asked that the part be duplicated".

If you owned that plane, you could replace piston rings and stuff, provided you had some detailed involvement in specing them out or manufacturing them. Your A&P could not do the same. The A&P signing the paperwork and installing the part (which the owner can't do without A&P supervision) should be really careful in making sure you did your homework with the part, and better make sure it's airworthy. If they sign off on your beer can gaskets, they fail, and you have an accident, the FAA will be coming for their license.

None of that is probably worthwhile, if that plane wasn't priced so high, it would be getting a Continental installed like all the other Porsche-Mooneys.

And this is a really good example of why Flying Cars won't happen anytime soon. The other examples are Dashcam Compilations and people sleeping in their Teslas. We as a whole haven't mastered 2 dimensions.

EvenWorseOpinions
Jun 10, 2017

wzm posted:

If you owned that plane, you could replace piston rings and stuff, provided you had some detailed involvement in specing them out or manufacturing them. Your A&P could not do the same. The A&P signing the paperwork and installing the part (which the owner can't do without A&P supervision) should be really careful in making sure you did your homework with the part, and better make sure it's airworthy. If they sign off on your beer can gaskets, they fail, and you have an accident, the FAA will be coming for their license.

Some nitpicking, if FAR §21.303 worked like that it would be an extremely tedious process to have any sheet metal repairs made because either the owner, the manufacturer, or a PMA would be responsible for creating the patch, since a mechanic would not be allowed to do so. The last paragraph of the document you link disagrees with that interpretation:

'Notwithstanding that repair stations and mechanics bill their customers for parts, along with the labor of installing the parts, those entities produce the parts for the purpose of accomplishing maintenance on products, limited to those products brought in by their customers. As described in order No. 8000.50, a repair station may produce a replacement or modification part, under FAR Parts 43 and 145, for an STC modification or a field-approved repair or alteration, given certain circumstances that assure quality control of the part produced. Compliance with part 43 gives the assurances of the quality control for a part produced by a part 65 mechanic. In addition, compliance with the maintenance recordkeeping requirements memorializes the circumstances of production and installation of the part. Accordingly, the objectives of Subpar K are achieved when a part is produced by a repair station or mechanic for installation on a customer's product: the installed part is introduced into the aviation stream of commerce with the necessary evidence of the part's suitability. Thus, one can conclude, as a matter of law, that a repair station or mechanic has not produced the above-described part "for sale" for installation on a type certificated product, as defined in the context of 21.303(a)'

Practical concerns aside, an appropriately rated mechanic is absolutely allowed to fabricate parts in order to bring an aircraft back to an airworthy state so long as any fabricated parts conform to acceptable data and they are fabricating those parts for the repair of the aircraft that they are working on specifically. AC 43-18 clarifies this a bit further. As far as repair parts go, if you have to make one yourself it's all about making sure it conforms to acceptable data, and the conformity to acceptable data determines whether or not a mechanic is in compliance when he installs it. Finding and conforming to acceptable data may be a challenge for some older aircraft and there are definitely mechanics and pilots who play a little bit loose when it comes to repair parts.

EvenWorseOpinions fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Oct 8, 2020

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

I didn't see this here, so let me post it:

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-will-consolidate-787-production-in-s-c-leaving-everett-wsj-reports/

So, you have a union plant that does excellent aerospace work, and this non-union plant that you tried and failed to get to do that work for cheaper, and it's done tremendous damage to business and your reputation. What do you do?

Expand the crap plant and abandon the union one, obviously

e.pilot
Nov 20, 2011

sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit
This surely won’t impact product quality

Kia Soul Enthusias
May 9, 2004

zoom-zoom
Toilet Rascal
We in Washington love Boeing management and all the deals we gave them haha :suicide:

Arson Daily
Aug 11, 2003

Sure the planes fall apart in midair, but what are we gonna do about these Q3 numbers?

azflyboy
Nov 9, 2005

Arson Daily posted:

Sure the planes fall apart in midair, but what are we gonna do about these Q3 numbers?

It didn't fall apart, that was just a "less than optimal weight reduction strategy", and the FAA totally let us grade out own homework on the airplane, so there's no problems here.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



Nebakenezzer posted:

I didn't see this here, so let me post it:

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-will-consolidate-787-production-in-s-c-leaving-everett-wsj-reports/

So, you have a union plant that does excellent aerospace work, and this non-union plant that you tried and failed to get to do that work for cheaper, and it's done tremendous damage to business and your reputation. What do you do?

Expand the crap plant and abandon the union one, obviously

lmao the next Air Force One is going to have to be an Airbus.

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg
:colbert:

Trumps last act will be to order some A380Neo's and have Boeing build them in Everett.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

"Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

slidebite posted:

Trumps last act will be to order some A380Neo's and have Boeing build them in Everett.

The main reason the replacement 747-8s got such a rush order put on them is because he was butthurt by Qatar and Kuwait having newer, bigger, and longer planes than his.

rscott
Dec 10, 2009

Nebakenezzer posted:

I didn't see this here, so let me post it:

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-will-consolidate-787-production-in-s-c-leaving-everett-wsj-reports/

So, you have a union plant that does excellent aerospace work, and this non-union plant that you tried and failed to get to do that work for cheaper, and it's done tremendous damage to business and your reputation. What do you do?

Expand the crap plant and abandon the union one, obviously

I've heard it's partially so they can move the narrow body production out of Renton and sell that property since it's waterfront Seattle and worth $$$$$, since they're so desperate for cash to pay down that $50 billion in debt they've taken on in the last year, but really this has been the plan the whole time since they stood that plant up with soulless managers who put quality at priority 3 at best

Basically going down the same path Sears did when the real estate was worth more than the rest of the company

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



rscott posted:

Basically going down the same path Sears did when the real estate was worth more than the rest of the company

A proven path to success!

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkXpJcb3wjM

Ola
Jul 19, 2004


When the music started I expected descending joint and sunglasses.

Saukkis
May 16, 2003

Unless I'm on the inside curve pointing straight at oncoming traffic the high beams stay on and I laugh at your puny protest flashes.
I am Most Important Man. Most Important Man in the World.

In Finland with flat land and copious amount of farms you are usually near a good outland spot, except for few of the larger forests and swamps which you may not want to overfly if the weather isn't solid. But in the mountainous regions you really need to know where you can outland, end up in the wrong valley and the forest is your only option. In those regions they produce book that list all the locations that have been judged suitable for outlanding, with maps and photos.

On that video it's nice that he decided to stick with the original landing plan while still at safe altitude. Switching the landing spot when is always a dangerous temptation. It's hard to judge from the video, but it looks and sounds like he is doing a sideslip during final to achieve some extra descent speed. Because of that he also seems to have some excess speed over the standard 100km/h or less, since you can't trust the air speed indicator anymore.

If the landing field is looking end up too short you always have the option to push the stick and put the nose in the ground, it's not like you need to worry about the propeller. If the situation really looks dire you have the option to stick one of your wingtips in the ground. This will cause the plane to telemark and it will stop almost on the spot, but it will almost most likely cause at least minor damage.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS
The description has some information about the circumstances.

quote:

At that day I was flying SZD-48M "Brawo" (pimped out Jantar Std 3) taking part in Austrian Junior Gliding Championships in Kapfenberg. It was my first time there and the area was new for me as I had only two days of training before the competition.
I made one bad decision around 20 km earlier which led to ending up in the pretty steep valley at around 900m (3000ft) above the bottom (the video shows only the last phase, something around 150m AGL). I had an option to fly further but in that moment I was above few small fields covered with nicely trimmed grass. Also at that time I was pretty self-confident with my landing skills in short fields like these on this gilder (more then 500h on the type), so I decided to stay. I used my hight to check which one is the best one because I saw couple of options. Then I was doing 360s to lose the altitude, thinking about threats and still assessing my decision. I like to talk to myself aloud when flying glider especially in demanding situations, so you can hear my concerns - am I high/far enough for final, what's the wind direction down there, options for retrieve after landing and so on...
Finally I decided to pull out spoilers and prepare for final approach. There was a pole with meteorological measuring equipment around 2m (6ft) high which forced me to keep pretty steep glide path and because of that I had to use full spoilers and additionally side slip, hence the vibration. It was additionally intensified on the camera because of the lack of the build in stabilisation. Just right before touchdown I realised that the tail wind was stronger then I thought so I left the idea of smooth landing and pushed the stick to put it down as soon as possible and to start braking with wheel brake.
After couple of bumps I parked safely with more or less 80 spare meters (250ft). I made a phone call and my mate Artur was coming for me with a trailer. He was really surprised and called me few times while driving just to make sure that he's driving in the rights direction when the mountains around him was getting bigger and bigger :)
On the next day, when I showed the video to the local guys it turns out that the field I outlanded was in Austrian database of useable fields some time ago but it was removed because of that new infrastructure around it and the length. Modern gliders have a bit higher stall speed then the one manufactured 30-40 yrs ago so they need more space to land.
Fly safe guys and prepare yourself as much as possible on the ground!

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


BIG HEADLINE posted:

The main reason the replacement 747-8s got such a rush order put on them is because he was butthurt by Qatar and Kuwait having newer, bigger, and longer planes than his.

he also wants a AF1 with the really hideous new livery he picked out

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

"Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

FuturePastNow posted:

he also wants a AF1 with the really hideous new livery he picked out

I actually don't mind the new livery, and I don't think it's actually gone into painting yet so if/when Biden wins he can nix that.

In other news, I really can't :toot: about $151m being spent to produce (thus far) an F-104 with an F-107's air intake system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQdRnvPitp0

meltie
Nov 9, 2003

Not a sodding fridge.

Ola posted:

When the music started I expected descending joint and sunglasses.

Goddamn that's a pretty place to fly.

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

BIG HEADLINE posted:

I actually don't mind the new livery, and I don't think it's actually gone into painting yet so if/when Biden wins he can nix that.

In other news, I really can't :toot: about $151m being spent to produce (thus far) an F-104 with an F-107's air intake system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQdRnvPitp0

I find it extremely telling they didn't show a low speed taxi let alone a high speed one...

in a well actually
Jan 26, 2011

dude, you gotta end it on the rhyme

Couldn’t find a hillside runway for gravity assisted taxi.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

"Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

hobbesmaster posted:

I find it extremely telling they didn't show a low speed taxi let alone a high speed one...

"The engines are getting installed..."

"...let me guess, next Tuesday?"

ManifunkDestiny
Aug 2, 2005
THE ONLY THING BETTER THAN THE SEAHAWKS IS RUSSELL WILSON'S TAINT SWEAT

Seahawks #1 fan since 2014.

BIG HEADLINE posted:

I actually don't mind the new livery, and I don't think it's actually gone into painting yet so if/when Biden wins he can nix that.

In other news, I really can't :toot: about $151m being spent to produce (thus far) an F-104 with an F-107's air intake system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQdRnvPitp0

Cool, they rebuilt the TSR

babyeatingpsychopath
Oct 28, 2000
Forum Veteran


hobbesmaster posted:

I find it extremely telling they didn't show a low speed taxi let alone a high speed one...

If my pilot, even test pilot, feels the need to have a ballistic helmet with integrated oxygen and a parachute, I am Full Nope on the project. Look at the guys in shirtsleeves and ties barrel-rolling 707s at airshows. They already knew what was gonna happen. The guy there in the poopy suit wishing he had an ejection seat? Terrified he's gonna die in a dotcom-disruptor boom.

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

ManifunkDestiny posted:

Cool, they rebuilt the TSR

I am perfectly fine with this.

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

babyeatingpsychopath posted:

If my pilot, even test pilot, feels the need to have a ballistic helmet with integrated oxygen and a parachute, I am Full Nope on the project. Look at the guys in shirtsleeves and ties barrel-rolling 707s at airshows. They already knew what was gonna happen. The guy there in the poopy suit wishing he had an ejection seat? Terrified he's gonna die in a dotcom-disruptor boom.

The Dash 80 had over a year of flight time before that demo, and actually had a landing gear collapse literally days after the rollout. Everybody's butt is puckered initially.

standard.deviant
May 17, 2012

Globally Indigent

babyeatingpsychopath posted:

If my pilot, even test pilot, feels the need to have a ballistic helmet with integrated oxygen and a parachute, I am Full Nope on the project. Look at the guys in shirtsleeves and ties barrel-rolling 707s at airshows. They already knew what was gonna happen. The guy there in the poopy suit wishing he had an ejection seat? Terrified he's gonna die in a dotcom-disruptor boom.
I'm pretty sure he's not gonna die if the plane can't taxi yet--it doesn't get really dangerous for at least another two or three rounds of VC funding.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

babyeatingpsychopath posted:

If my pilot, even test pilot, feels the need to have a ballistic helmet with integrated oxygen and a parachute, I am Full Nope on the project. Look at the guys in shirtsleeves and ties barrel-rolling 707s at airshows. They already knew what was gonna happen. The guy there in the poopy suit wishing he had an ejection seat? Terrified he's gonna die in a dotcom-disruptor boom.

Parachutes and supplemental oxygen aren't uncommon for test flights, even airliners.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply