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Brendan Rodgers posted:He does eat a bunch of raw meat next to a pile of human corpses in front of Calder. Also he says that the "real first law" is "might makes right" (paraphrasing). He starts with fish, and then has meat with greens and carrots. It being the north I imagine the unspecified meat was mutton. Rare might be a better word than raw. Notahippie posted:Something I noticed in The Trouble with Peace: there's a theme across several of the more antagonisty characters of red hair Dag. Interesting take. Might be something to it. Didn't pick up on the bartender being one of Shylo's but it seems obvious enough in hindsight.
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Oct 8, 2020 09:09
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I just finished Trouble with Peace and I liked it a lot more than A Little Hatred. It might just be all round better, but part of the problem with the first book was that I didn't find most of the new characters interesting, but most of them felt a lot better in their second book, except Savine who no longer had even her interesting investor/industrialist thing going on. She glomped onto the rebellion and helped out, but her attempted cunning twists fell through entirely. I would have liked to see her reinvigorating Angland's economy or something and begrudgingly granting better working conditions to help get the Breakers onboard with the rebellion. Maybe she could even find safer factories were more efficient and becoming a real labour rights activist even if it was only motivated by greater profits. I was surprised that Stour fell so fast. I mean, I am glad because he sucks and his final scene in the book was excellent payoff, I just expected him to last until the third book. I missed when Clover arranged his betrayal, but he was friendly with Rikke and Shivers on a few occasions so I assume it was meant to have happened at one of those. Shivers remains great and it's funny how his relationship with Rikke is so similar to Logan in Red Country. I wonder if he'll ever learn that is son is a king? It was interesting seeing Leo's hatred of stairs for a while, felt a lot like Glockta's chapters in the first series. I'm not sure what to think about Glockta/Pike. Is Glockta in on the Breaker plot? The line about burning things down to rebuild hints at it. Does he know he's too hated for the Breakers to ever trust and that's why he's so keen to retire and hand power to Pike? Has he been working against Bayez the whole time? It felt strange he didn't even ask Orso to spare Savine or anything. It also seems dangerous to stir up a rebellion against the government and then retire to the country where he has no protection from a lot of very angry rebels who have a lot of reasons to hate him. Do we know what happened to Craw from The Heroes? He goes back to the wars at the end, do we just assume he died between books? I don't think Wonderful or Hardbread mentioned him at all, even in passing. Had we actually seen Clover/Steepfield before ALH? He mentions he held a shield at the Feared/Nine circle and he presumably fought in the following wars, but I don't remember him being mentioned. Did I miss/forget why Murcatto is not still queen of Styria? Did she step aside to be just a general at some point? It sounded like she is still alive in the background somewhere. Did Glockta cut back on the torturing the inquisition use? Glockta's scenes as an inquisitor/superior were pretty chilling and brutal, but Vick seems limited to just beating people. Now of course, being tied up while state torturers beat the poo poo out of you would still loving suck, but it seems "nicer" than having your fingers chopped off 1cm at a time, or your feet being smashed with hammers etc. I don't understand why Broad has such bad eyesight. In that I don't see what it adds to him as a character. He seems to have really terrible eyesight when he takes off his glasses, which he always does before a fight, but it never seems to be an actual downside and he finds his way around just fine. Its only purpose feels like it makes his scenes easier to write because everything is a blur. Darkrenown fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Oct 10, 2020 |
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Oct 10, 2020 16:35
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Darkrenown posted:Did I miss/forget why Murcatto is not still queen of Styria? Did she step aside to be just a general at some point? It sounded like she is still alive in the background somewhere. She was never queen, she became the Duchess of Talins and eventually crowned her son with Rogont as king. That's the person we end up meeting in this book.
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Oct 10, 2020 16:46
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broad is definitely going to end up killing the wrong person because of his bad eyes
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Oct 10, 2020 16:48
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Vichan posted:She was never queen, she became the Duchess of Talins and eventually crowned her son with
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Oct 10, 2020 16:56
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Darkrenown posted:I don't understand why Broad has such bad eyesight. In that I don't see what it adds to him as a character. He seems to have really terrible eyesight when he takes off his glasses, which he always does before a fight, but it never seems to be an actual downside and he finds his way around just fine. Its only purpose feels like it makes his scenes easier to write because everything is a blur. I think it's making the point that it requires a certain frame of mind to want to kill a fellow human being, and that frame of mind in turn makes it really hard to reintegrate into civil society. Taking off the glasses is an external clue that he's entering his war frame of mind, and the blurry vision demonstrates how he is depersonalizing all the human beings around him that he might otherwise feel empathy for.
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Oct 10, 2020 17:52
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Actually the answer is Joe modeled Broad off of Dave Bautista’s character in Bladerunner 2047, who was a gigantic man (well, replicant) with tiny round glasses. He said it in an interview.
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Oct 10, 2020 18:39
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Vichan posted:She was never queen, she became the Duchess of Talins and eventually crowned her son with Rogont as king. That's the person we end up meeting in this book. Yeah, I know the king here is her son, although I think it's by Shivers. Someone, Leo maybe, mentions King Jappo looks like a Northman. But I'm less clear on why she made him king if she wasn't queen. He doesn't seem to be married to anyone for a dynastic unification so I assume Murcatto unified the place by conquest. Did Rogont have such a strong claim to be king that her son by him (supposedly for this purpose) would be accepted as king while she wouldn't be accepted as queen? She wasn't popular outside of Talins of course, but neither was Rogont. I guess the fiction that Rogont was crowned king even if it was for about 5 seconds gives at least a tiny basis for a claim for his son, but would anyone really have told Murcatto no after she conquered the region for the third time in ~10 years? Subvisual Haze posted:I think it's making the point that it requires a certain frame of mind to want to kill a fellow human being, and that frame of mind in turn makes it really hard to reintegrate into civil society. Taking off the glasses is an external clue that he's entering his war frame of mind, and the blurry vision demonstrates how he is depersonalizing all the human beings around him that he might otherwise feel empathy for. I suppose that's possible, but I think entering the right frame of mind is signalled enough by just taking off his glasses and rolling up his sleeves as a little pre-fight ritual. I'm less sure about blurriness = depersonalizing since I think that'd work better if Broad was the only violent character, or at least the only one who was violent yet mostly nice, but the series is filled with violent men who don't have such a framing device. Several of them fight their friends when they end up on opposite sides or talk about how they might have got on fine with the people they had to kill in other circumstances too, so that point seems to be covered. The problem I have with it is that despite his vision being described as terrible it never causes him any issues in a fight. He's never killed the wrong person as far as I know, he doesn't miss anything important, and he easily finds Leo at the end of TWP. He doesn't need to be near-blind just because he's based on another guy with glasses either. He could just be nearsighted or need them for reading etc.
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Oct 10, 2020 21:48
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Darkrenown posted:Had we actually seen Clover/Steepfield before ALH? He mentions he held a shield at the Feared/Nine circle and he presumably fought in the following wars, but I don't remember him being mentioned. He wasn't even a Named Man back then, just a random carl or thrall holding the shield. There was no reason any of the POV characters would have mentioned him even if he hadn't been just a glint in Joe Abercrombie's eye at this point.
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Oct 10, 2020 22:16
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Technological progession (glasses) allows for people to have the potential to change but the society (Savine) enforces the common man (Broad) to stay in his place Also (Taxes) somehow
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Oct 10, 2020 22:19
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Clover was probably named at that point, he just wasn't named in the story.
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Oct 11, 2020 01:43
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I don’t think he gained the name “Steepfield” until after the events of the original trilogy. He held a shield at the Fenris/Logan duel, and since that was 30 years ago and he’s maybe in his 50s now he had to be young. In The Heroes he obviously wasn’t much of a name because one of the themes is “most of the old heroes are dead” and it would be surprising if someone like Craw wouldn’t know him, and he wouldn’t have been mentioned or rounded up by Black Dow to either fight or be killed. My theory is that he gained his “Steepfield” name during the battle of the Heroes (the final charge by the Union, on a real steep hill). The fun theory would be that he was the one who killed Whirrun of Bly (putting a spear through his back while he was fighting Gorst is pretty in character for him) but I don’t think that’s actually what happened, since they would have been on the same team and I don’t think he’d get much credibility for bragging about it. I do think he served under Cairm Ironhead though, and probably betrayed and murdered him. Regardless, I think his actual background is pretty immaterial. His whole character is that he used to be the same bloodthirsty murderer as most of the other famous Northmen, but after he lost his duel realized that if he actually wanted to live a halfway decent life he needed to keep his name out of everyone’s mouths and lose his reputation. If the third book never explains any more of his past I won’t be disappointed. I would like to know who he lost the duel to though.
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Oct 11, 2020 05:22
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:I don’t think he gained the name “Steepfield” until after the events of the original trilogy. He held a shield at the Fenris/Logan duel, and since that was 30 years ago and he’s maybe in his 50s now he had to be young. Clover explicitly stated that he was 18 year-old nobody during the Fenris/Logan duel in a Little Hatred. Also, he said that he was an idiot and learned all the wrong lessons from witnessing the duel. As Last Argument of Kings took place in 576-577 and a Little Hatred starts in 605, that would mean he was 46 when the new trilogy started. Warden fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Oct 11, 2020 |
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Oct 11, 2020 08:05
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Gantolandon posted:He wasn't even a Named Man back then, just a random carl or thrall holding the shield. There was no reason any of the POV characters would have mentioned him even if he hadn't been just a glint in Joe Abercrombie's eye at this point. I get the impression you thought I was complaining. If so, I wasn't, just asking since a lot of major characters were either minor characters in earlier books or are related to them. Holding a shield, especially at a duel between big names is a position of some honor/trust though, and Heroes flicks though a lot of random viewpoints to show slices of the battle, so it wouldn't have been crazy to have seen a glimpse of him.
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Oct 11, 2020 14:42
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Darkrenown posted:Yeah, I know the king here is her son, although I think it's by Shivers. Someone, Leo maybe, mentions King Jappo looks like a Northman. I thought it was interesting that the voice narrator on the audiobook decided to use a voice very similar to Shivers when speaking as Jappo. It’s of those clues in the audio that can be noticed before it’s revealed in the text, as someone mentioned earlier in the thread. Steven Pacey really is top tier.
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Oct 11, 2020 15:22
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Magitek posted:I thought it was interesting that the voice narrator on the audiobook decided to use a voice very similar to Shivers when speaking as Jappo. It’s of those clues in the audio that can be noticed before it’s revealed in the text, as someone mentioned earlier in the thread. Steven Pacey really is top tier. I don’t remember them being similar at all. Wasn’t Jappo’s very weird and unique?
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Oct 11, 2020 16:18
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Darkrenown posted:Holding a shield, especially at a duel between big names is a position of some honor/trust though Yeah, it would be, normally, but Bethod had just lost a huge battle and was running out of seasoned men of repute. There's a scene after the battle in High Places where Black Dow is going through the corpses and cutting off the heads Bethod's war-chiefs and Named Men to stick them in pikes and he introduces a few of them by name to West in order to mock them. When he reminisces about the Logen/Fenris duel, Clover flat-out states that he was just a dumb kid who learned all the wrong lessons.
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Oct 11, 2020 17:19
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I really love the voices Pacey used for both Orso and Jappo, the negotiation between the two of them was a lot of fun to listen to. I didn’t start listening to the audiobooks until ALH, now I kind of want to go back and pick up the audio versions of the other 6
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Oct 11, 2020 19:01
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Monza herself isn't sure whether her son is the progeny of Shivers or Rogont, but it's strongly implied she plans to use the political fiction that it's Rogont's son as justification to conquer Ospria. After which it's convenient enough to use it as justification for conquering the whole country. What's the difference anyway between being called Grand Duchess of Talins or Queen of Styria anyway when your son occupies the throne and you have absolute military power?
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Oct 12, 2020 01:29
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Terminal autist posted:Has Abercrombie mentioned any plans after this trilogy? I'd like to see him do another set stand alone novels in the universe again. He did an interview a little bit ago where he said that he plans on another trilogy and several stand-alones over the next decade. He wants to write at least one work outside of The First Law before any of those, though.
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Oct 12, 2020 02:45
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Suxpool posted:Monza herself isn't sure whether her son is the progeny of Shivers or Rogont, but it's strongly implied she plans to use the political fiction that it's Rogont's son as justification to conquer Ospria. After which it's convenient enough to use it as justification for conquering the whole country. What's the difference anyway between being called Grand Duchess of Talins or Queen of Styria anyway when your son occupies the throne and you have absolute military power? There's some difference when your son becomes an adult and wants to do his own thing instead of yours.
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Oct 12, 2020 02:55
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Pacey really adds to experience. The vocal characterization allows for fun moments where the listener has information before both characters and readers (for example, a discerning listener can identify Vitari before even the text gives it away).Darkrenown posted:There's some difference when your son becomes an adult and wants to do his own thing instead of yours. I got the impression that Monza is still very much the power behind the throne so I imagine his interests largely aligns with hers.
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Oct 12, 2020 17:38
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Chuck Buried Treasure posted:I really love the voices Pacey used for both Orso and Jappo, the negotiation between the two of them was a lot of fun to listen to. They're worth it, imo. Pacey ftw
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Oct 12, 2020 17:44
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Darkrenown posted:I get the impression you thought I was complaining. If so, I wasn't, just asking since a lot of major characters were either minor characters in earlier books or are related to them. Holding a shield, especially at a duel between big names is a position of some honor/trust though, and Heroes flicks though a lot of random viewpoints to show slices of the battle, so it wouldn't have been crazy to have seen a glimpse of him. I didn't think you were complaining, sorry for my previous post coming like you did. It does seem like Clover was a character created specifically for the new trilogy. As far as I know, he didn't appear anywhere before, including the Heroes.
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Oct 12, 2020 18:24
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Hi this thread, I started reading The First Law friday and liked it a lot, finished that saturday eve. Have picked up Before they were hanged and Last Arguement of Kings sunday and am currently half-wayish through BtwH. Big fan of the northmen group. I really like Ferro and Ninefingers but the rest of that group I'm eh about really. Really enjoy the inquisitors plot at the moment. West is good but the whole incompetent prince thing just makes me sigh. Just had a tattoo on the back of the knee so I'm going to read for the rest of the evening. edit: Also, its annoying that the goodreads pagecount is different from the one in my book so I can't update that pointlessly
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Oct 12, 2020 19:35
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Pocky In My Pocket posted:Hi this thread, I started reading The First Law friday and liked it a lot, finished that saturday eve. Have picked up Before they were hanged and Last Arguement of Kings sunday and am currently half-wayish through BtwH. Big fan of the northmen group. I really like Ferro and Ninefingers but the rest of that group I'm eh about really. Really enjoy the inquisitors plot at the moment. West is good but the whole incompetent prince thing just makes me sigh. You're in for a ride friend, they start good and only get better. Pick up the three standalones after if you want more, The heroes especially if you liked the Northmen stuff
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Oct 12, 2020 19:40
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Pocky In My Pocket posted:Hi this thread, I started reading The First Law friday and liked it a lot, finished that saturday eve. Have picked up Before they were hanged and Last Arguement of Kings sunday and am currently half-wayish through BtwH. Big fan of the northmen group. I really like Ferro and Ninefingers but the rest of that group I'm eh about really. Really enjoy the inquisitors plot at the moment. West is good but the whole incompetent prince thing just makes me sigh. Please share your thoughts about all major characters and guesses about the future for our enjoyment! P.s. I'm jealous you get to experience it all for the first time!
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Oct 12, 2020 19:41
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Man if you actually enjoy The Blade Itself you will love everything after. I reread that a while ago and it feels pretty meh compared to everything that comes after.
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Oct 12, 2020 19:56
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:Man if you actually enjoy The Blade Itself you will love everything after. I reread that a while ago and it feels pretty meh compared to everything that comes after. I appreciate getting to know everyone before everything kicks off
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Oct 12, 2020 20:01
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:guesses about the future for our enjoyment! I don't tend to guess overmuch about what going to happen. Currently I'm just hoping that the prince west saved whos name I've forgotten doesn't go through the standard regretful-royal-becomes-king-of-the-men arc. Especially as Jezal is kinda doing that as well.
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Oct 12, 2020 20:04
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sharp ends is my favorite of the series
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Oct 12, 2020 20:06
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Pocky In My Pocket posted:I don't tend to guess overmuch about what going to happen. Currently I'm just hoping that the prince west saved whos name I've forgotten doesn't go through the standard regretful-royal-becomes-king-of-the-men arc. Especially as Jezal is kinda doing that as well. Oh you’re in for a treat then. Enjoy! 
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Oct 12, 2020 20:08
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Yeah, I have to temper my desire to read vicariously through you so I don't spoil things through questions. Please keep us updated!
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Oct 12, 2020 20:43
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Pocky In My Pocket posted:I appreciate getting to know everyone before everything kicks off I really liked it the first time, and then when I reread it I was just itching to get to all the stuff that came next. I don’t think it’s a reflection of TBI being bad, just that what comes after it is so incredibly good. Hot take here: Red Country is the worst in the series. I was pretty bored through a lot of that book.
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Oct 12, 2020 21:47
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:I really liked it the first time, and then when I reread it I was just itching to get to all the stuff that came next. I don’t think it’s a reflection of TBI being bad, just that what comes after it is so incredibly good. I enjoyed Red Country a lot as a sort of gazetteer and a look at what had happened to Logen and the society in general out that way. It's very different than any of the other places and I enjoyed it.
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Oct 12, 2020 22:30
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I like Red Country a lot overall, but I'm also very bored by parts of it. Most of the wild west stuff was boring to me, as was almost everything about the mercs/Cosca although it was nice/sad to see Cosca again. It was also interesting to see the ongoing experiments with cannons. The dragon people were also interesting, and the way they were both terrible and somewhat justified reflected Logan's quest and return to his former self. A lot of the little details and side stories were great. But the main thing I enjoyed was seeing Logan again, I liked him a lot in the original series despite his many failings and I was a bit sad about how his story had apparently ended there. It was nice to see that he'd found peace and happiness for a time, then it was both good and bad to see his old self re-emerge and the semi-justified carnage that followed, then finally it was nice again to see him go back to family life. Speaking of the ending, I'm not entirely sure how it fits into Shivers' timeline. Did he hang out as Calder's named man for a while after Heroes, head off after hearing Logan was alive (How? Why was no one else interested?) to hunt him down, then go home and meet Rikke, becoming something of a family man himself?
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Oct 13, 2020 00:23
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About Shivers, I would guess he hung out in the North until Calder sent him down. He'd be the perfect person for the job being hard as nail and with a personal grudge. The Protectorate was established in 584, a little less than 20 years before A Little Hatred in 605. If Rikke was born in Uffrith in the following year that makes her about 18 when we meet her. Red Country was in 590, and presumably Shivers wouldn't have been welcome back in the North after he got back. If he went straight to Uffrith he would have met Rikke when she was three or four years old.
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Oct 13, 2020 00:47
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Red Country is worth reading simply for the Glama Golden fight.
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Oct 13, 2020 01:06
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:About Shivers, Wait, that doesn’t make sense, Shivers was working for the Dogman when Rikke was born, that’s why he was there to be the Unlikely Nursemaid when she was a newborn and the Dogman was grieving.
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Oct 13, 2020 01:19
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Fly Molo posted:Wait, that doesn’t make sense, Shivers was working for the Dogman when Rikke was born, that’s why he was there to be the Unlikely Nursemaid when she was a newborn and the Dogman was grieving. Well he gives up his hatred at the end of red country, so he probably decided then and there to go to the dog man instead, and bam, there’s sticky rikke
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Oct 13, 2020 03:33
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