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DrPop posted:lol Virgil Texas' brain was broken so bad by believing so hard in electoralism in the leadup to bernie's defeat that he fled the internet and now he's back and destroying the modern left's sacred idols by taking the brave stance that electoralism simultaneously 1) doesn't work 2)...is anarchist? "Suddenly we sensed that they were playing their last card, that they were cunning, ignorant and cruel like old beasts of prey and that, if we let ourselves be overcome by fear or pity, they would finally destroy us. We took out our heavy revolvers (all of a sudden there were revolvers in the dream) and joyfully killed the Gods." --Jorge Luis Borges, Ragnarok
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Oct 13, 2020 00:05
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Is it worth actually listening to the chomsky interview? Because the way people talking it sounds like pulling teeth
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Oct 13, 2020 01:15
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DrPop posted:Because Bernie Sanders wouldn't have been able to do hardly anything as president. Putting so much hope into him was misguided. I don't remember them putting a particularly large amount of hope onto him, but after Corbyn he was the only candidate offering any hope at all. They were pretty realistic about the chances of Bernie getting his core proposals through, but supported them because they were good and popular. I believe the actual hope was that having a "socialist" president would help expose the faultlines in American politics, and especially within the Democratic party. I remember them talking about a Bernie presidency having the potential to begin reforming the party or causing a schism, either of which would have given the left something to build on. I guess you could call any hope "too much" in this day and age, but I don't think that's a particularly big ask for someone with a shot at the presidency.
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Oct 13, 2020 01:19
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AnEdgelord posted:Is it worth actually listening to the chomsky interview? Because the way people talking it sounds like pulling teeth it’s a bit frustrating, Briahna and Virgil seemed to want him to get past voting, but Noam was very much into voting
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Oct 13, 2020 01:39
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it got really dry when noam insisted on listing all of the elections he's voted in
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Oct 13, 2020 01:48
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What'd Chomsky even do to get all this left-wing clout anyway? I didn't come to left wing politics through him like so many other people so from where I'm standing it looks like hes just coasting off of one good book and spent the rest of his life being on a perpetual speaking tour.
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Oct 13, 2020 01:55
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AnEdgelord posted:What'd Chomsky even do to get all this left-wing clout anyway? I didn't come to left wing politics through him like so many other people so from where I'm standing it looks like hes just coasting off of one good book and spent the rest of his life being on a perpetual speaking tour. he needed something else to do during his search for the cornerstone of the Tower of Babel
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Oct 13, 2020 01:57
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AnEdgelord posted:What'd Chomsky even do to get all this left-wing clout anyway? I didn't come to left wing politics through him like so many other people so from where I'm standing it looks like hes just coasting off of one good book and spent the rest of his life being on a perpetual speaking tour. He also used to do the Ben Shapiro thing where he would visit colleges, bait unprepared kids into arguments and then publicly own them.
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Oct 13, 2020 01:59
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AnEdgelord posted:What'd Chomsky even do to get all this left-wing clout anyway? I didn't come to left wing politics through him like so many other people so from where I'm standing it looks like hes just coasting off of one good book and spent the rest of his life being on a perpetual speaking tour. one of the only people who would talk about palestine or imperialism at all, who would sometimes even get invited to be on normal tv. one of the last “public intellectuals” really
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Oct 13, 2020 02:00
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AnEdgelord posted:What'd Chomsky even do to get all this left-wing clout anyway? I didn't come to left wing politics through him like so many other people so from where I'm standing it looks like hes just coasting off of one good book and spent the rest of his life being on a perpetual speaking tour. He's done a lot of work educating people about US imperialism in the 60's-90's, honestly haven't heard anything that he's written since 2002 or something so I don't know what he has done since then. Understanding Power slaps though, and the audiobook is really good to listen to because he never really goes deep into anything, and the structure of it is him talking to the audience that the book is a transcript of
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Oct 13, 2020 02:01
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AnEdgelord posted:What'd Chomsky even do to get all this left-wing clout anyway? I didn't come to left wing politics through him like so many other people so from where I'm standing it looks like hes just coasting off of one good book and spent the rest of his life being on a perpetual speaking tour. he wrote books about us imperialism and how the corporate structure of the media leads it to propagandize for US and corporate interests
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Oct 13, 2020 02:02
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THS posted:atleast we can be certain that if brace ever advocates voting for the lesser evil we can be 100% certain he was executed and replaced with a hologram he is the countries only swing voter between Trump and La Riva
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Oct 13, 2020 02:18
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AnEdgelord posted:What'd Chomsky even do to get all this left-wing clout anyway? I didn't come to left wing politics through him like so many other people so from where I'm standing it looks like hes just coasting off of one good book and spent the rest of his life being on a perpetual speaking tour. He was given a platform because his denunciation of the Soviet Union made his critique of US imperialism acceptable Parenti has a chapter in Blackshirts and Reds about it  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51KSe96VCuI
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Oct 13, 2020 02:25
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Chomsky had some good, easily digested pocket books that were essentially primers not so much on leftism but identifying the issues with capitalism as it exists and US foreign policy. The Prosperous Few and the Restless Many, What Uncle Sam Really Wants, can't remember the third one but these were good introductory books as a young person
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Oct 13, 2020 02:25
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chompsky is a lib in leftist's clothing, who having built up a model of the world under mass control through systems and mechanisms for the exploitation of billions, refuses to actually consider the full ramifications of his own work. In short, pithy c-spamism, he hatred was not pure.
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Oct 13, 2020 02:33
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DrPop posted:lol Virgil Texas' brain was broken so bad by believing so hard in electoralism in the leadup to bernie's defeat that he fled the internet and now he's back and destroying the modern left's sacred idols by taking the brave stance that electoralism simultaneously 1) doesn't work 2)...is anarchist? it's Chomsky that identifies as an anarchist DrPop posted:I'm just marveling at Virgil's seemingly contradictory beliefs. Like he and the podcast spent a long-rear end time in the leadup to the primaries talking about how nominating Bernie Sanders to be President of the United States was the left's last hope to accomplish anything and push the US state out of its downward spiral (pretty optimistic IMO) and now Virgil specifically seems to be simultaneously advocating that electoralism is worthless it makes sense that if you consider Sanders to be the last electoral off-ramp before ecological collapse, that the Democrats then convening to destroy him then means that electoralism is now no longer feasible the more stupid move would be if they were STILL clinging to electoralism after the events of the 2020 Democratic primaries DrPop posted:Because Bernie Sanders wouldn't have been able to do hardly anything as president. Putting so much hope into him was misguided. when your choice is between "the guy who wants to do mild social democracy, but will probably be stopped by the capitalist class were he ever to assume power", and "gently caress YOU LETS FRACK", the former choice is better, and is actually a real choice, rather than the one between Biden and Trump
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Oct 13, 2020 02:43
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AnEdgelord posted:What'd Chomsky even do to get all this left-wing clout anyway? I didn't come to left wing politics through him like so many other people so from where I'm standing it looks like hes just coasting off of one good book and spent the rest of his life being on a perpetual speaking tour. Lol
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Oct 13, 2020 02:43
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Oct 13, 2020 02:44
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Atrocious Joe posted:He was given a platform because his denunciation of the Soviet Union made his critique of US imperialism acceptable yeah that sounds right, and its why his stature as a public intellectual rapidly declined after the fall of the USSR. no longer useful
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Oct 13, 2020 02:45
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lol
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Oct 13, 2020 02:47
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goddamn the left is doomed.
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Oct 13, 2020 02:48
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where he belongs
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Oct 13, 2020 02:51
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Gripweed posted:goddamn the left is doomed. it was never alive
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Oct 13, 2020 02:51
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sorry for posting in the worst thread. see u all in the 2024 campaign! yeah vvvv
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Oct 13, 2020 02:57
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Chomsky's biggest goof is that he says voting is trivial and only takes a few minutes, but he is willing to argue for hours over it. If it is so trivial, why discuss it for so long? I don't think I've had a conversation about the electoral choices last longer than 2 minutes, because I just tell Biden people that I don't care enough about the election to continue the conversation
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Oct 13, 2020 02:57
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its the most important election in our lifetime
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Oct 13, 2020 02:58
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THS posted:yeah that sounds right, and its why his stature as a public intellectual rapidly declined after the fall of the USSR. no longer useful A "left gatekeeper" if you will I mean you couldn't turn on the TV in the 80s without seeing Noam Noam Noam
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Oct 13, 2020 02:58
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sleeptalker posted:If they lose big they're not going away, they'll just fully devolve into the controlled opposition for the GOP. The real stakes of this election are whether the USA can keep the two-party system going, maintaining the fantasy of government representing the will of the masses, or whether it becomes what we call (when it happens in the third world) "corrupt" and "dictatorial". trillbillies had the better take the other day that the dems if they lose will just finish their transformation into a lifestyle brand for people who believe in their own moral superiority
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Oct 13, 2020 03:03
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paul_soccer12 posted:A "left gatekeeper" if you will lol i literally just meant he used to be on pbs news hour and bill moyers and poo poo in the late 80s and got relegated to the university circuit and more niche media. i guess thats not a huge step down but it’s the difference between being in the public consciousness on the level of william buckley and gore vidal vs having to talk to amy goodman. the range of acceptable critique changed. who is the most high profile anti-imperialist allowed on national tv these days, glenn greenwald i guess?
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Oct 13, 2020 03:09
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Zizek is a much more entertaining intellectual, with better politics to boot.
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Oct 13, 2020 03:11
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i bet chumpsky can't even eat one hotdog, let alone two at the same time. the virgin noam vs the chad slavoj
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Oct 13, 2020 03:17
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THS posted:lol i literally just meant he used to be on pbs news hour and bill moyers and poo poo in the late 80s and got relegated to the university circuit and more niche media. i guess thats not a huge step down but it’s the difference between being in the public consciousness on the level of william buckley and gore vidal vs having to talk to amy goodman. the range of acceptable critique changed. who is the most high profile anti-imperialist allowed on national tv these days, glenn greenwald i guess? He was on the speaking circuit during that period too but I take your point. The media does suck and has gotten worse. Noam taught me that in fact And its not like cspan and booktv appearances was the same as being invited on the big Sunday morning talk shows.
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Oct 13, 2020 03:18
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gaze not into the lib media lest the lib media gaze also into you
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Oct 13, 2020 03:21
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Libertarians love Chomsky.
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Oct 13, 2020 03:22
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2016 -> 2020 is about as good a test case as we'll get of Brie's theory that "if we refuse to vote for the democrat they'll be forced to acknowledge our power" and welp
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Oct 13, 2020 03:23
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https://twitter.com/timjacobwise/status/1315800652468097024?s=20
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Oct 13, 2020 03:25
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Lmao
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Oct 13, 2020 03:27
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oh great, he's tweeting now
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Oct 13, 2020 03:28
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Tim Dim
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Oct 13, 2020 03:28
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he is so jealous they're doing his grift but from home
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Oct 13, 2020 03:32
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