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MikeJF posted:Also I'm starting to think I may have OD'd on Star Trek and gone batty thanks to the Quarantine Lockdown. has it been a long road? getting from there to here?
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Oct 13, 2020 10:07
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I'm wondering how many ships the Borg attack in First Contact was supposed to have chewed through as well. I think the oldest ship we saw in the space combat scene there was a Nebula? Maybe the Borg wrecked most of their newer ships. Whenever I watch FC I can never not be troubled by that ship that gets blown up on the viewer because Picard is doing a Dramatic Pause before commiting to fire. DrNutt posted:I do think the uniform thing is weird and not just in lower decks. Look at that screenshot of disco with Pike in the disco jumpsuit while his people are rocking the TOS uniforms. It's weird to me that it seems to vary by ship in the times that we've seen it. I do like the first contact uniforms better than the regular lower decks ones though, which just look fundamentally like the deep space nine ones with a little flair. MikeJF posted:The original intention when they split TNG and DS9 at the time was that coloured body and black shoulders was ships/command and black body coloured shoulders was outposts, and that's used consistently for a few years, but then Voyager came along and confused things and it all just went more inconsistent from there. That whole... thing is such a mess. I don't think it was Voyager that confused it so much as Generations. You could totally buy that the DS9 crew have the mechanic uniforms, they were sent to a building site to fix a hosed up station, and the uniform sold the look of being actively more practical than the TNG look. The error was in Generations when they wanted to do new uniforms, designed them, didn't like it, and instead of dropping the idea opted to use the DS9 uniforms which did not look good on film, and especially terrible under the warmer TNG lighting (I'm not sure the undershirt is ever supposed to look that purple). The fact that they didn't have time / money to make them bespoke and had to reuse the DS9 cast ones make them look even worse - poor Frakes. Those uniforms don't belong on what is essentially the luxury science barge, but I think they would have gotten away with it to some degree had they not opted to show the uniform roll-out in the story - I think most Trek nerds would enjoy an episode that showed the changeover to new uniforms, but not in the middle of a feature film that isn't even totally set in the TNG era where it becomes a complete distraction. They then opted to have some of the cast switch back towards the end of the film to suggest that they only had one of each in their closet, which doesn't really work in the world of there being no material scarcity and everything is replicatable. It's maddening, because if you have that level of engagement with the detail of the world you're creating that you feel that showing a uniform changeover is a good and interesting idea, you must surely be able to see why that specific execution is a bad idea. It just seems so odd to me that they committed to it. The new comm badges - which are the only decent bit of design Eaves has done (imo) were a nice little change and are easier to merchandise than uniforms I can't remember what year (in production terms) the DS9 team went back to the academy, but they were all wearing the TNG uniform, which made sense, and then everyone rolled over to the First Contact one which still worked in the context of DS9 as it wasn't a wreck any more. echoplex fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Oct 13, 2020 |
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Oct 13, 2020 10:19
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At some point I want to see them break out the Ent jumpsuits again but in the department colors.
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Oct 13, 2020 10:35
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On the subject of uniforms/badges etc as the price of screen-used stuff has shot up over the last few years (if I'd bought the stuff I was offered ~10 years ago I could probably pay off the house now), I've been tracking down less obvious items - I got hold of these raw comm castings from the original moulds. The TNG one is a later badge - the first season ones were thinner and a tad pointier - which is very hard to see the difference on camera). It's funny how small they are in person - proportionately they look fine on actors who are inherently tiny, but when you look at... huskier members of the cast (late-series Riker) you realise how small they are.
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Oct 13, 2020 11:11
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echoplex posted:On the subject of uniforms/badges etc as the price of screen-used stuff has shot up over the last few years (if I'd bought the stuff I was offered ~10 years ago I could probably pay off the house now), I've been tracking down less obvious items - I got hold of these raw comm castings from the original moulds. The TNG one is a later badge - the first season ones were thinner and a tad pointier - which is very hard to see the difference on camera). It's funny how small they are in person - proportionately they look fine on actors who are inherently tiny, but when you look at... huskier members of the cast (late-series Riker) you realise how small they are. Those would be horrible for holding dirt with how often people tap their communicators, I wonder if they polish them every day military style or just get a fresh one from the replicator.
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Oct 13, 2020 12:03
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Senor Tron posted:Those would be horrible for holding dirt with how often people tap their communicators, I wonder if they polish them every day military style or just get a fresh one from the replicator. It's the future. Obviously they have like an electrostatic repulsion effect to stay clean.
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Oct 13, 2020 12:09
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echoplex posted:Whenever I watch FC I can never not be troubled by that ship that gets blown up on the viewer because Picard is doing a Dramatic Pause before commiting to fire. Oh man, same. Also apparently tactical officers always have to wait for the command to raise shields which seems to lead to many situations of unnecessary damage.
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Oct 13, 2020 12:40
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echoplex posted:Whenever I watch FC I can never not be troubled by that ship that gets blown up on the viewer because Picard is doing a Dramatic Pause before commiting to fire. IIRC from my teenage years, in the book he knows of the transient, momentary weak spot because he can hear the borg consciousness being aware that shields and defences are about to collapse and restart at a certain point and he's waiting for the exact single second of vulnerability.
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Oct 13, 2020 12:49
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Star Trek: Lower Decks was fantastic, especially the last two episodes. I liked the "you look like a scratching post" line. All my other praise and criticism has already been voiced, so I'll leave it at that
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Oct 13, 2020 14:38
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MikeJF posted:IIRC from my teenage years, in the book he knows of the transient, momentary weak spot because he can hear the borg consciousness being aware that shields and defences are about to collapse and restart at a certain point and he's waiting for the exact single second of vulnerability. That's what I always got out of the scene, that he's perceiving something and waiting for the window of opportunity. If they'd shot earlier to "save" that one ship the attack would have failed and they'd all be speaking Borg.
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Oct 13, 2020 14:54
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Brawnfire posted:That's what I always got out of the scene, that he's perceiving something and waiting for the window of opportunity. If they'd shot earlier to "save" that one ship the attack would have failed and they'd all be speaking Borg. That's how I read it too, but it could be improved by some form of gesture indicating he's deliberately holding for something, as it stands it is a bit "Picard just watches on, moodily, then decides to issue the command"
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Oct 13, 2020 15:31
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mehall posted:That's how I read it too, but it could be improved by some form of gesture indicating he's deliberately holding for something, as it stands it is a bit "Picard just watches on, moodily, then decides to issue the command" Have the Borg whispers build up to a crescendo as he stands and then cut at the moment he says fire.
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Oct 13, 2020 15:37
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MikeJF posted:Have the Borg whispers build up to a crescendo as he stands and then cut at the moment he says fire. Yeah, I'd be fine with that
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Oct 13, 2020 15:43
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Should have a long scene where the camera whips around a bunch of Borg passageways and have each Borg we encounter offer information regarding shield strength and weapons targeting and several thousand different cultural interpretations of optimal tactical actions. Make it like the scenes where the bridge crew are shouting tense damage reports and commands, but literally every single drone on the cube gets a say
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Oct 13, 2020 15:52
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Brawnfire posted:Should have a long scene where the camera whips around a bunch of Borg passageways and have each Borg we encounter offer information regarding shield strength and weapons targeting and several thousand different cultural interpretations of optimal tactical actions. Make it like the scenes where the bridge crew are shouting tense damage reports and commands, but literally every single drone on the cube gets a say Only if the camera does loppty-loops and corkscrews.
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Oct 13, 2020 16:28
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MikeJF posted:IIRC from my teenage years, in the book he knows of the transient, momentary weak spot because he can hear the borg consciousness being aware that shields and defences are about to collapse and restart at a certain point and he's waiting for the exact single second of vulnerability.
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Oct 13, 2020 16:39
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Arquinsiel posted:That implies there's some borg gubbinz still in his brain. Eh Long range psychic powers exist in Trek How could the Borg NOT be latently psychic
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Oct 13, 2020 16:45
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The Bloop posted:Eh That was actually casually mentioned in the Voyager episode "Unity".
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Oct 13, 2020 17:01
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Arquinsiel posted:That implies there's some borg gubbinz still in his brain. It's infuriating that Picard missed the opportunity to retcon his degenerative brain problem as being caused by residual Borg nanotech, thus tying it into the overall themes.
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Oct 13, 2020 17:25
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:It's infuriating that Picard missed the opportunity to retcon his degenerative brain problem as being caused by residual Borg nanotech, thus tying it into the overall themes. add it to the pile
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Oct 13, 2020 17:39
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:It's infuriating that Picard missed the opportunity
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Oct 13, 2020 17:42
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HD DAD posted:But you know, Borg go boom! Incest! Game of Thrones! This is literally modern trek summarized. Except for LDS. LDS is stupid fun.
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Oct 13, 2020 17:51
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The Bloop posted:Eh The Bloop posted:add it to the pile
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Oct 13, 2020 18:19
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Arquinsiel posted:That raises the question of why does everyone else not hear it? So... Residual Borg nanoreceptors in Picard's left frontal lobe. Solved.
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Oct 13, 2020 18:25
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8one6 posted:At some point I want to see them break out the Ent jumpsuits again but in the department colors. Best Trek uniforms. I'll give TOS uniforms a pass. It was a TV show that at the time had no history or following; it was 1960s sci-fi meant for TV... meaning it had to be colorful, because it's a little amazing that Star Trek didn't have "NOW IN GLORIOUS EXTRA COLOR!!" at the bottom of the title card. So... whatever. The Star Trek movies after the first one had what I'd call military dress uniforms. They looked like uniforms, but less for duty. More like, dress uniforms? Still, though, uniforms. ST:TNG... yeah, even as a kid, I didn't like the first series of uniforms. They never looked like uniforms. They looked like costumes. That got a little better as time went on and edged away from straight-up costumery, but they never seemed like actual uniforms to me. I liked the idea that outpost personnel would have a variant uniform, so ST:DS9's uniforms, while still a little costume-y, made perfect sense. When ST:VOY came along and used the same uniforms, I was like... OK, fine, I guess everyone switched. I noticed that they were making the switch in the middle of Generations; I thought it was a weird thing to include, but it didn't bother me. Still, though, not very uniform-like. But, since they never had been very uniform-like, I was just used to it. ST:ENT had perfect uniforms. I could believe that these people were on a working space vessel for a Not-The-Military organization. The later TNG movie uniforms with the gray shoulders... they struck me as uniforms, but again, like dress uniforms more than duty uniforms. Dress uniforms are OK, but when everyone on the ship and not just, say, the bridge crew are in them... it doesn't make a lot of sense.
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Oct 13, 2020 18:57
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Senor Tron posted:I want to see the timeline where both Voyagers from that episode and the goo copy one survived and teamed up in a fleet to get back home, with Starfleet trying to figure out wtf to do with three copies of the same ship and crew. I would like to see this as a story where they get home but everybody is super confused and it's not the welcome that they expected... because a Voyager already came home a year ago. Also, the show always did those stories with no tension where they do something to get home faster but it never works out because it was expected that they wouldn't get home until the end of the series. They should have done one of those in mid-season 6 or something and they end up actually making it home. Nobody would've expected it.
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Oct 13, 2020 18:58
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Post TMP TOS movie unis best unis, sorry. Worst uniforms: season 1&2 TNG
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Oct 13, 2020 19:06
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i'd love to see a more realistic take on the 2380's lower deck uniform - the TWOK flap combined with the simple lines of the TNG uniform really work well as a cartoon, not sure how well it'd look as a real costume though
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Oct 13, 2020 19:14
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Arquinsiel posted:That raises the question of why does everyone else not hear it? So... I mean I guess it technically does but trek psychic powers aren't usually just broadcasts, they are narrow band unless someone is having space menopause or space Alzheimer's or whatever Picard's brain learned the frequency so it's like he's listening to a crackly borg police scanner through a baby monitor, not something everyone can hear
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Oct 13, 2020 19:31
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Best to worst uniforms: Wrath of Khan etc. "maroon jackets" First Contact / late-DS9 "gray shoulders" TNG S3+ "Mandarin collar" DS9/Voyager "black jumpsuit w/ colored shoulders" Lower Decks "colorful asymmetrical jacket" TOS "shrinking velour" Enterprise "blue jumpsuits" TNG S1-2 "spandex with sailor-suit stripe" Discoprise "heavy black collar atop TOS-colored shirt" 24th century "maroon jackets without the puffy-collared undershirt" JJTrek "Starfleet arrowheads everywhere" Discovery "blue with all the metallic poo poo down the sides" Picard 2399 "that distracting little notch between the division-color and black parts" Picard 2385 "too-slanty shoulderpads" . . . . . . TMP "pastel-colored feety pajamas with a huge ugly belt buckle that draws the eye downward to where your junk is clearly visible in outline" Fight me. 
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Oct 13, 2020 19:35
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Phylodox posted:Residual Borg nanoreceptors in Picard's left frontal lobe. Solved. The Bloop posted:I mean I guess it technically does but trek psychic powers aren't usually just broadcasts, they are narrow band unless someone is having space menopause or space Alzheimer's or whatever
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Oct 13, 2020 19:35
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Powered Descent posted:JJTrek "Starfleet arrowheads everywhere" Not fighting you but in case you don't know..... 
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Oct 13, 2020 19:38
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Miss posted:has it been a long road? I’ve got faith
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Oct 13, 2020 19:50
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Arquinsiel posted:Which is what that psychic abilities was a response to avoid, so you've just gone back to the start of the circle. No, it’s not, it’s both. Say the Borg use infinitesimal nanoreceptors, small enough to avoid detection by even Starfleet scanners, to augment a species’ latent psychic abilities in such a way as to better receive/understand their commands. Rather than develop a universal translator to make everyone’s thoughts compatible, which would eat up bandwidth and require time to decipher new languages, they bypass the language centers of the brain to attain direct psychic understanding. To a regular, non-assimilated psychic, it would feel/sound like so much technical jargon. To someone with those nanoreceptors, their brain would organize that information into commands and whatnot.
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Oct 13, 2020 19:56
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zoux posted:Post TMP TOS movie unis best unis, sorry. Fixed that tarlibone posted:ST:TNG... yeah, even as a kid, I didn't like the first series of uniforms. They never looked like uniforms. They looked like costumes. That got a little better as time went on and edged away from straight-up costumery, but they never seemed like actual uniforms to me. The later TNG ones were good conceptually but yeah, I agree, they needed a little bit more finishing / detail (even cuffs would be a good start). I always like the implication that they were made from some kind of magic fabric - there's that good shot in Ro's epsiode where the uniform splits along an invisible front seam (rather than the obvious zip at the back, lol), and things like the holsters just grafted themselves on to the fabrics (although you can always see the bigger tricorders trying to leap out). It does seem ridiculous that they never really went anywhere without environmental suits but then I'd hate to imagine what an early era TNG suit would look like on their budgets
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Oct 13, 2020 20:05
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Phylodox posted:No, it’s not, it’s both. Say the Borg use infinitesimal nanoreceptors, small enough to avoid detection by even Starfleet scanners, to augment a species’ latent psychic abilities in such a way as to better receive/understand their commands. Rather than develop a universal translator to make everyone’s thoughts compatible, which would eat up bandwidth and require time to decipher new languages, they bypass the language centers of the brain to attain direct psychic understanding. To a regular, non-assimilated psychic, it would feel/sound like so much technical jargon. To someone with those nanoreceptors, their brain would organize that information into commands and whatnot. Starfleet can sense subatomic particles with no issue and while a basic medical scan where they wave a glowy thing over you might miss a thing or two, it's pretty tough to imagine that the sort of medical procedures used to un-borg picard didn't take an inventory of every atom in his body. You'd have to suppose increasingly unlikely things like implants that are cloaked and can hack and fool any encountered medical equipment, transporter biofilters, etc Why would the borg bother making them that way when most of their implants are big chunks of metal - it's not like they need the collective to be a secret
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Oct 13, 2020 20:07
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echoplex posted:Fixed that  LOL I don't think there was a space suit in the whole of TNG until First Contact when they made three (3) which then showed up on Voyager a bunch
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Oct 13, 2020 20:10
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Powered Descent posted:Best to worst uniforms: You forgot the AGT uniforms (mom jeans) and the superior Beyond uniforms (though I like the Discoprise ones more, shoulder cords and all). The TNG movie uniforms would have been so much better if the division color on the cuffs was also a rank strip like TOS. Disco has bad uniforms but absolutely horrid rank signifiers. Come to think of it why don't the Enterprise uniforms have some sort of rank stripe or patch?
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Oct 13, 2020 20:17
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The Bloop posted:Starfleet can sense subatomic particles with no issue and while a basic medical scan where they wave a glowy thing over you might miss a thing or two, it's pretty tough to imagine that the sort of medical procedures used to un-borg picard didn't take an inventory of every atom in his body. You'd have to suppose increasingly unlikely things like implants that are cloaked and can hack and fool any encountered medical equipment, transporter biofilters, etc Starfleet (and, by extension, Starfleet medical) are always exactly as omniscient as the plot demands. Pretty sure there’s a throwaway line somewhere about how they still haven’t even cured all forms of cancer. So it’s just a matter of saying something about how the human brain is a mystery we’ll never truly understand and also the Borg are terrifyingly advanced. As to why the Borg would do it? Because they’re the Borg. The things they do should be inhuman and inscrutable and horrifying. Bypassing your language centers because they don’t give a poo poo about your language, just about issuing you commands is solidly within their wheelhouse.
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Oct 13, 2020 20:21
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The Bloop posted:
Well, if the early TNG novels are any indication, there never were any plans for spacesuits in TNG, but something else instead. In one of the novels (it is either Encounter at Far Point or Ghost Ship because I have not read any other ST novels) they mention that the com badges generates a force field for spacewalks.
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Oct 13, 2020 20:24
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