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Iron Crowned
May 6, 2003

by Hand Knit

Who What Now posted:

In the original Alien movie the android got instructions to make sure the xenomorph got back to his masters why didn't he just, like, immediately vent the atmosphere of the ship and kill all the crew?

I feel like there was a lot of things they didn't know about the alien? Instructions were to bring it back, and if you don't know it can survive in space, you don't want to just kill your prize.

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SilvergunSuperman
Aug 7, 2010

Wild T posted:

Because the A2s always were a bit twitchy.

Seriously, most of Ash's behavior seems to be summed up as "he's a robot who is very neurotic about being a robot". Evidently the reason they had him try to shove the rolled-up porno magazine down Ripley's throat is because of his anxiety about not having a working robot penis.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever read.

Admiral Bosch
Apr 19, 2007
Who is Admiral Aken Bosch, and what is that old scoundrel up to?

SilvergunSuperman posted:

That's the dumbest thing I've ever read.

the entire movie is about rape hope that helps

SilvergunSuperman
Aug 7, 2010

Admiral Bosch posted:

the entire movie is about rape hope that helps

Yeah that definitely explains robodick envy, thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule.

Wild T
Dec 15, 2008

The point I'm trying to make is that the only way to come out on top is to kick the Air Force in the nuts, beart it savagely with a weight and take a dump on it's face.

SilvergunSuperman posted:

That's the dumbest thing I've ever read.

I mean, he's literally filled with cum and has no outlet. Instead of just strangling Ripley or snapping her neck he takes the time to grab a porn magazine, roll it into a tube and try to ram it down her throat. I'm no expert on robot murder but that definitely seems less "optimal way to kill an adult woman" and more "serial killer angry about his erectile dysfunction".

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?

quote:

Ridley talked to Ian Holm about his character "How do you feel about sexual drive?". He said "Great".

Ridley continued "rather than just beating her up, isn't it more interesting that he actually has always wanted to, and here's his opportunity but he doesn't have that part, and therefore it's a magazine"

The Ridley later told Sigourney, "come downstairs, it's gonna be great. Ash is gonna pick up this sex magazine and he's gonna stick it up your hooter"

Sigourney didn't know what hooter meant and even later thought it might be Cockney slang. She thought "My hooter?"

When she got down stairs and they did the scene, she realised that actually it was up her mouth.

Who What Now
Sep 10, 2006

by Azathoth

In what bastard region of the world is hooter slang for mouth?

Android Apocalypse
Apr 28, 2009

The future is
AUTOMATED
and you are
OBSOLETE

Illegal Hen
I'm guessing Ridley gauged Sigourney's reaction & at the last second said "Hooter? Er… We use that term to mean 'mouth' 'ere on this side of the pond!"

Who What Now
Sep 10, 2006

by Azathoth
Jamming it up her crotch or in her tits makes even less sense as a way to kill her.

happyhippy
Feb 21, 2005

Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup
Pillbug

Who What Now posted:

In the original Alien movie the android got instructions to make sure the xenomorph got back to his masters why didn't he just, like, immediately vent the atmosphere of the ship and kill all the crew?

Androids can't be told to kill or bypass their internal programming from afar it looks like.
You could if you had direct access to their internals probably, but simply being told 'crew expendable' isn't enough to turn it into a murder bot if it has the Asminov 3 rules or something like them.

Instead you can see Ash trying to diplomat his way through it, trying to steer the crew into doing poo poo that benefits the alien recovery.
You can see him internally freaking out when they are talking about getting the gently caress out of there.
Until Ripley finds out and he is torn against his programming not to kill her, but he has to, but can't kill, but he has to, and he freaks the gently caress out.

Also they didn't know what the alien was like, how it would react or anything. They just knew it was there.
And when did Ash get the instructions? Before or after Kane got infected.

slow_twitch
Sep 21, 2005

Who What Now posted:

In the original Alien movie the android got instructions to make sure the xenomorph got back to his masters why didn't he just, like, immediately vent the atmosphere of the ship and kill all the crew?

Pretty clearly because he understood it was the perfect killing machine and the crew didn't have a chance to defeat it.

Mister Speaker
May 8, 2007

WE WILL CONTROL
ALL THAT YOU SEE
AND HEAR

Wild T posted:

Or the vents. They're usually a shortcut between rooms where you're safe from human or robotic enemies. You do hear the alien running around in them but they're always ceiling vents that it spawns in and out of, so I figured that was a cosmetic noise and the vents were a safe place to travel. Nope. I'm crawling through a vent, turn a corner and the alien is right in my face waiting on me. drat near pissed myself.

Just like Dallas!

I had a similar experience and it's really a great testament to how the xeno AI in the game adapts to your behaviour and favourite hiding places. My first playthrough - coward that I, am I was on the easiest difficulty - I also thought the vents were a safe space because I'd spent the entire game crouching and moving slowly anyway. That changed on the very last part of the game (the room is on fire, there's a large vent system underneath the place, there are at least two xenos and I think their perception is buffed). Jump scares rarely do it for me; nothing in Dead Space 2 made me flinch at all, but no word a lie when I turned around to the alien clambering up on me, I screamed and threw down the PS4 controller.

The higher difficulties are a nightmare.

Mister Speaker fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Oct 9, 2020

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?



https://twitter.com/TheGr8Aspie/status/1314711581025087489?s=20

Pennywise the Frown
May 10, 2010

Upset Trowel

Android Apocalypse posted:

I'm guessing Ridley gauged Sigourney's reaction & at the last second said "Hooter? Er… We use that term to mean 'mouth' 'ere on this side of the pond!"

drat, I had no idea Ridley Scott was a brit.

Android Apocalypse
Apr 28, 2009

The future is
AUTOMATED
and you are
OBSOLETE

Illegal Hen

Pennywise the Frown posted:

drat, I had no idea Ridley Scott was a brit.

Huh, I figured that was common knowledge. Listening to him talk you can hear his accent coming through.

edogawa rando
Mar 20, 2007

Pennywise the Frown posted:

drat, I had no idea Ridley Scott was a brit.

Sir Ridley Scott. He was knighted in 2003.

Pennywise the Frown
May 10, 2010

Upset Trowel

Android Apocalypse posted:

Huh, I figured that was common knowledge. Listening to him talk you can hear his accent coming through.

Never heard him talk before. Actually I don't even remember what he looks like. I'm pretty sure he's been posted in here but I have a poor memory.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Pennywise the Frown posted:

Never heard him talk before. Actually I don't even remember what he looks like. I'm pretty sure he's been posted in here but I have a poor memory.
Is that why you have to keep thinking about Aliens?

The Last Call
Sep 9, 2011

Rehabilitating sinner

Mister Speaker posted:

Just like Dallas!

I had a similar experience and it's really a great testament to how the xeno AI in the game adapts to your behaviour and favourite hiding places. My first playthrough - coward that I, am I was on the easiest difficulty - I also thought the vents were a safe space because I'd spent the entire game crouching and moving slowly anyway. That changed on the very last part of the game (the room is on fire, there's a large vent system underneath the place, there are at least two xenos and I think their perception is buffed). Jump scares rarely do it for me; nothing in Dead Space 2 made me flinch at all, but no word a lie when I turned around to the alien clambering up on me, I screamed and threw down the PS4 controller.

The higher difficulties are a nightmare.

The Alien AI is actually two AI's. There's the Alien itself but there's a second secret one that gives the Alien AI clues to where you are. So if you ever thought to yourself it seems to know where I'am but at the same doesn't that's the reason for it.

Pennywise the Frown
May 10, 2010

Upset Trowel

Splicer posted:

Is that why you have to keep thinking about Aliens?

It keeps me grounded.

I've had 36 rounds of ECT so my memory got hosed up. Could be why I never get sick of watching Aliens and I do probably 15-20 times a year.

Iron Crowned
May 6, 2003

by Hand Knit

Keltar posted:

The Alien AI is actually two AI's. There's the Alien itself but there's a second secret one that gives the Alien AI clues to where you are. So if you ever thought to yourself it seems to know where I'am but at the same doesn't that's the reason for it.

That's actually pretty clever.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.

Keltar posted:

The Alien AI is actually two AI's. There's the Alien itself but there's a second secret one that gives the Alien AI clues to where you are. So if you ever thought to yourself it seems to know where I'am but at the same doesn't that's the reason for it.

What do you mean "clues"? All I've noticed is that it seems to pick up on common places you've hidden after a while so they don't work as well. Or is that what you mean? It also seems to be getting gradually less and less scared of my flamethrower.

Xenomrph
Dec 9, 2005

AvP Nerd/Fanboy/Shill



BiggerBoat posted:

What do you mean "clues"? All I've noticed is that it seems to pick up on common places you've hidden after a while so they don't work as well. Or is that what you mean? It also seems to be getting gradually less and less scared of my flamethrower.

The Alien will adapt to what you do; if you use the flamethrower a lot then it’ll start to be less effective, if you hide in lockers a lot it’ll start checking there more often, etc.

Pennywise the Frown
May 10, 2010

Upset Trowel
That's a scary rear end alien.

Biplane
Jul 18, 2005

I never finished it; I chickened out a little over halfway through the game. :cabot:

The Zombie Guy
Oct 25, 2008

BiggerBoat posted:

What do you mean "clues"? All I've noticed is that it seems to pick up on common places you've hidden after a while so they don't work as well. Or is that what you mean? It also seems to be getting gradually less and less scared of my flamethrower.

I've read that the 2nd AI, which always knows where you are, keeps the primary AI from wandering too far away from you. Kind of a "you're getting warmer" idea. I think I remember earlier in the thread, someone saying that the Alien will eventually stop reacting to distractions the same way. If your M.O. is to throw a flare or noisemaker, and scoot in the other direction, the Alien will eventually wise up, and actively search for you away from where the distraction is.

Pissed Ape Sexist
Apr 19, 2008

BiggerBoat posted:

What do you mean "clues"? All I've noticed is that it seems to pick up on common places you've hidden after a while so they don't work as well. Or is that what you mean? It also seems to be getting gradually less and less scared of my flamethrower.

It's absolutely fascinating and fully custom-built just for this game! There is a system of dual AIs that run the xeno behavior, and they are cleverly overlapped with the explicit purpose of preventing the computer from cheating while maintaining a level of threat that the game can control on the fly.

Macro AI: Observer/director AI that tracks status and location of player. You cannot avoid it; it’s omniscient. It monitors the overall stress level the player is exposed to based on xeno’s time in proximity to player, time in line of sight of player, time on motion tracker, etc. This also controls the xeno’s progression through its own behavior tree throughout the game, which gives the impression that it’s learning new behaviors in reaction to the player’s progress. When this AI decides it's time you need to meet the beastie again, it will tell the other AI to go to a general area and perform a couple behaviors. However, it can't give specific locations, the order of behaviors, or the time limit of/between the behaviors.

Micro AI: This is the xeno’s brain with pathfinding and local ‘senses’ that receive stimulus and respond in dynamic ways based on the xeno's current progress through the behavior tree. You can outsmart it in real time if you keep adapting to how it simultaneously adapts to you (say, if you use a noisemaker too much within a certain timeframe, the macro AI will unlock a 'reduce sensitivity to noisemaker until this behavior reaches cooldown' behavior for the micro AI, and if you keep using them more it'll unlock a 'check corner opposite from noisemaker occurrence since going to the noisemaker never works' behavior). It uses its programmed 'instincts' and senses with a few randomized factors (how long it walks around a room, how fast it chooses to walk, etc.) to carry out the tasks/behaviors given to it from the macro AI.

This guy explains it way better than I can. It's brilliant stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt1XmiDwxhY

Pissed Ape Sexist fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Oct 13, 2020

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?



Code Jockey
Jan 24, 2006

69420 basic bytes free

Pissed Ape Sexist posted:

It's absolutely fascinating and fully custom-built just for this game! There is a system of dual AIs that run the xeno behavior, and they are cleverly overlapped with the explicit purpose of preventing the computer from cheating while maintaining a level of threat that the game can control on the fly.

Macro AI: Observer/director AI that tracks status and location of player. You cannot avoid it; it’s omniscient. It monitors the overall stress level the player is exposed to based on xeno’s time in proximity to player, time in line of sight of player, time on motion tracker, etc. This also controls the xeno’s progression through its own behavior tree throughout the game, which gives the impression that it’s learning new behaviors in reaction to the player’s progress. When this AI decides it's time you need to meet the beastie again, it will tell the other AI to go to a general area and perform a couple behaviors. However, it can't give specific locations, the order of behaviors, or the time limit of/between the behaviors.

Micro AI: This is the xeno’s brain with pathfinding and local ‘senses’ that receive stimulus and respond in dynamic ways based on the xeno's current progress through the behavior tree. You can outsmart it in real time if you keep adapting to how it simultaneously adapts to you (say, if you use a noisemaker too much within a certain timeframe, the macro AI will unlock a 'reduce sensitivity to noisemaker until this behavior reaches cooldown' behavior for the micro AI, and if you keep using them more it'll unlock a 'check corner opposite from noisemaker occurrence since going to the noisemaker never works' behavior). It uses its programmed 'instincts' and senses with a few randomized factors (how long it walks around a room, how fast it chooses to walk, etc.) to carry out the tasks/behaviors given to it from the macro AI.

This guy explains it way better than I can. It's brilliant stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt1XmiDwxhY

that loving rules holy poo poo

Hillary 2024
Nov 13, 2016

by vyelkin

happyhippy posted:

Androids can't be told to kill or bypass their internal programming from afar it looks like.
You could if you had direct access to their internals probably, but simply being told 'crew expendable' isn't enough to turn it into a murder bot if it has the Asminov 3 rules or something like them.

Instead you can see Ash trying to diplomat his way through it, trying to steer the crew into doing poo poo that benefits the alien recovery.
You can see him internally freaking out when they are talking about getting the gently caress out of there.
Until Ripley finds out and he is torn against his programming not to kill her, but he has to, but can't kill, but he has to, and he freaks the gently caress out.

Also they didn't know what the alien was like, how it would react or anything. They just knew it was there.
And when did Ash get the instructions? Before or after Kane got infected.

Wikipedia posted:

Captain Dallas discloses that Ash replaced the vessel's regular science officer two days before the ship left Thedus. When Ripley, by checking the main computer, discovers the real reason for the Nostromo's diversion, Ash assaults Ripley,

Ash was a plant, he was following preprogrammed orders the whole time.

Hillary 2024 fucked around with this message at 09:50 on Oct 14, 2020

Hillary 2024
Nov 13, 2016

by vyelkin
https://roguereviewer.wordpress.com/2020/10/12/defining-canon-in-an-alien-world/

One of the authors of the Alien RPG just put this up.

quote:

DEFINING CANON IN AN ALIEN WORLD

As a franchise consultant to 20th Century Fox on ALIEN, Predator, and Planet of the Apes, I often had to take a long hard look at a number of long beloved franchise stories and try to figure out how exactly that could still fit in canon. If I couldn’t, I had to recommend they be tossed. I proposed a third option–what I’ve come to call barroom canon. These are stories overheard in a bar (or read in a comic, or played in a video game, or even posted on Facebook) that may or may not have some truth to them. This allows canon to have some flex in regards to including stories that otherwise could no longer count in a franchise’s development.

As the lead writer and canon consultant on the ALIEN RPG by Free League Publishing, I developed the following Canon Tier guidelines to working out the ALIEN universe.

Because people like to react before they read completely, I will stress again that this list is a guideline based on my franchise consultant work at FOX . I used it when creating the backstory/lore/history of the Alien Universe for the Role Playing Game. Several fans asked for the list. It’s okay if it doesn’t fit your personal head canon, I am in no way suggesting it should. The game lore is designed to reject what you don’t like and use what you do.

The notes below about Predator, AVP, and Easter Eggs are guidelines I was given by FOX’s franchise department when I was brought on board as a consultant. Remember that canon in any franchise is always fluid–no RPG or novel will stop headlining producers and directors from taking a series in any direction they want to try. This list is canon as canon stands, until it doesn’t.

A NOTE ABOUT PREDATORS

The first thing to understand about ALIEN, Predator, and AVP is that they are three franchise universes.

AVP is officially a separate franchise and therefore a separate canon than Alien/Prometheus. Predator is also separate from AVP and Alien/Prometheus. If a Predator shows up in an alien project, that project is in the AVP universe and not Alien.

THE TRUTH ABOUT EASTER EGGS

Easter Eggs are never an indicator of canon, they are surprise homages and nothing more. The separation of franchises is per Fox themselves, and was handed to me as perimeters to follow when I first worked on the Predator Bible for them. Lots of people get frustrated by the AVP statements above. They want Predator in their Alien. Personally I think both franchises are better on their own, so I’m happy about AVP being a third franchise.

YOUR UNIVERSE

All that being said, the Alien RPG is a guide to YOUR alien universe, official or not. Make your game universe your own. What you want in your campaign is absolutely what should be in there, no matter what. As for what I used, this is the list I stick to. It is based on my discussions and work with FOX as a franchise consultant, and I’ve laid out the setting and whatnot accordingly:


TIER I CANON

Definitive and authorized canon to the Alien/Prometheus universe:

Film Series
-Prometheus
-Alien: Covenant
-Alien
-Aliens
-Alien 3
-Alien Resurrection
Alien Isolation video game
Mike Tanaka Alien Isolation Twitter account
Covenant Short Films:
-The Crossing
-The Last Supper
-Meet Walter
-Five Crew Messages
-Phobos
-Advent
-David’s Lab: Last Signs of Life
Prometheus Short Films:
-TED Conference, 2023
-Happy Birthday, David
-Quiet Eye: Elizabeth Shaw
-Project Prometheus: Mission
-Weyland Industries Testimonial
-Prometheus Transmission


TIER II CANON

These sources are absolutely canon until Ridley Scott or another producer throws a curveball:

The 40th Anniversary Short Films
-Alien: Containment
-Alien: Specimen
-Alien: Night Shift
-Alien: Ore
-Alien: Alone
Alien: Weyland Yutani Report
Alien: The Blueprints
Alien: David’s Drawings
Alien Role Playing Game by Free League Publishing
-Alien: Core rulebook
-Alien: Chariot of the Gods
-Alien:Destroyer of Worlds
-Alien: Map of the Middle Heavens
-All upcoming Alien: RPG products
The following Dark Horse comic series:
-Aliens: Dead Orbit
-Aliens: Dust to Dust
-Aliens: Defiance
-Aliens: Resistance
-Aliens: Rescue
Titan and Imprint Novel Series
-Alien: Covenant – Origins
-Alien: The Cold Forge
-Alien: Into Charybdis
-Alien: Infiltrator
-Alien: Sea of Sorrows
-Aliens: Phalanx
-Alien: Prototype
-Alien: Isolation novelization
-Alien: Echo
Alien: Blackout Mobile Video Game
Aliens: Colonial Marines Technical Manual


TIER III CANON

Majority of the content is canon with some minor problems that can be explained away as myth or heresay.

Weyland Industries Viral Website (some distances are exaggerated)
Aliens: Colonial Marines Video Game (Creatures and Technology are canon, the story is not)
Alien Novels:
-Alien: Out of the Shadows
-Alien: River of Pain


MYTHS AND LEGENDS

This stuff should be thought of as tall-tales told in bars. The events may or may have happened as described, but the locations exist:

Alien Survival Manual (was intended as canon but has glaring errors)
William Gibson’s Alien 3
Alien: Covenant Short Films:
-x Audi lunar quattro
-She Won’t Go Quietly
Unused screenplays
Movie novelizations (except when contradicted by screen evidence)
-Alien
-Aliens
-Alien 3
-Alien: Resurrection
-Prometheus (Japanese language only)
-Alien: Covenant
Aliens: Colonial Marines Video Game (Storyline)
Aliens: Bughunt (Labeled as such in the book)
The following Dark Horse comic series:
-Aliens: Field Report
-Aliens: Fire and Stone
-Aliens: Life and Death
-All comics in the Aliens: Omnibus Volume 1-6
-Aliens: Tribes
-Aliens: Space Marines Kenner Comics
The Bantam Books and DH Press Aliens novels:
-All novels in the Complete Aliens Omnibus Volumes 1-7
Concept art (includes all artbooks)
Aliens: Adventure Game by Leading Edge
Arcade, computer, and console video games
-Aliens: Armageddon
-Aliens: Infestation
-Aliens: Extermination
-Aliens: Thanatos Encounter
-Aliens: Online
-Aliens: Trilogy
-Aliens: A Comic Book Adventure
-Aliens 3: The Gun
-Aliens: Alien 2
Kenner Aliens Toyline

Hillary 2024 fucked around with this message at 10:11 on Oct 14, 2020

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸
Lot of bullshit in the tier 1 group

Sentinel Red
Nov 13, 2007
Style > Content.

The Zombie Guy posted:

If your M.O. is to throw a flare or noisemaker, and scoot in the other direction, the Alien will eventually wise up, and actively search for you away from where the distraction is.

:stare:

Iron Crowned
May 6, 2003

by Hand Knit

Code Jockey posted:

that loving rules holy poo poo

Yeah, the mention of how they drew inspiration from other things such as Halloween or Jurassic Park, just makes me wish there were Halloween and Jurassic Park games with similar mechanics.

I mean hell, you could easily just reskin the Alien into a Velociraptor and a T-Rex, and boom, now you have a scary Jurassic Park game.

Biplane
Jul 18, 2005

Iron Crowned posted:

Yeah, the mention of how they drew inspiration from other things such as Halloween or Jurassic Park, just makes me wish there were Halloween and Jurassic Park games with similar mechanics.

I mean hell, you could easily just reskin the Alien into a Velociraptor and a T-Rex, and boom, now you have a scary Jurassic Park game.

It already exists and terrified me as a child
https://youtu.be/6xKt98r2FFA

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 12, 2015

by Cyrano4747

Splicer posted:

Lot of bullshit in the tier 1 group

It's basically just how Star Wars used to organize its EU canon. Movies and directly movie-related things go in the top level, stuff that has no contradictions but could be retconned away goes a layer under, and stuff that's off in crazytown or otherwise couldn't possibly gel with movies goes a layer under that.

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?



If anyone is into 3d printing check this out:
https://blacksitestudio.com/digital-files/?fbclid=IwAR2updiOlrbfj9XCwJn1zqltc2zZtEzImxWqmiFNNmbJjhd1dSdP3xRdLPU&removed_item=1

Pennywise the Frown
May 10, 2010

Upset Trowel

I love the names of all of them. Slightly changed.

Lt. Elle
Working Jim
Executive Officer Cane

Mutant Headcrab
May 14, 2007

Colony Android looks like Mads Mikkelsen and it owns.

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Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?



Pennywise the Frown posted:

I love the names of all of them. Slightly changed.

Lt. Elle
Working Jim
Executive Officer Cane

I am a 3d printing hobbyist and this fig leaf is basically a fun industry practice across the board when small time digital artists are playing in someone else's IP pool.. They get pretty creative with the Star Wars stuff to keep Disney off their tip.

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