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Tortilla Maker posted:That's really tough and reminds me of my grandfather in some ways. Wish you and your family well. That Tektronix will serve you well and live forever. Great newbie scope in terms of quality and ease of use!
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Oct 14, 2020 16:25
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Discernibly Turgid posted:Ha! Just saw the PM as I was writing this reply. Cleaning/maintenance shouldn't be an issue so long as there's not anything wrong that I would need an oscilloscope to diagnose (wouldn't that be ironic?) Plus that will give me something to do while I wait for turntable parts to arrive. Stoked for this. It's totally kizmit. I'll be sure and post turntable pics once they're all repaired and tuned up. You're a good dude Discernibly Turgid.
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Oct 14, 2020 18:04
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GnarlyCharlie4u posted:
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Oct 14, 2020 18:25
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Thank you, guys. Your timing could hardly be better. Gnarly, you are REALLY gonna want to read at least some of the manual in order to use this thing. Once you understand the logic underpinning the operation it’ll click and you’ll get it.
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Oct 14, 2020 20:13
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Discernibly Turgid posted:They were done by the HP instrumentation group (with Agilent) that also did high-end hospital gear etc. this scope model made a big splash in the aviation industry. It does frequency, amplitude, rise- and fall times, etc. I got some sweet pictures of it earlier. Apropos of nothing except the fact that I run Bootcamp on a work machine for the sole purpose of using TapeStation (and the occasional scope controller) software, gently caress Agilent
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Oct 14, 2020 22:06
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Ok Comboomer posted:Apropos of nothing except the fact that I run Bootcamp on a work machine for the sole purpose of using TapeStation (and the occasional scope controller) software, gently caress Agilent I’ve never had the (reportedly) exquisite displeasure of trying to make any of my HP Agilent stuff play nice with other gear. The stuff always had a consistent, orderly logic to it, , but it was never one that was obvious or intuitive. That said, the stuff always worked precisely, accurately, and consistently. It’s probably telling that I never made an attempt to own anything they made after the turn of the millennium.
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Oct 14, 2020 22:57
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Discernibly Turgid posted:I’ve never had the (reportedly) exquisite displeasure of trying to make any of my HP Agilent stuff play nice with other gear. The stuff always had a consistent, orderly logic to it, , but it was never one that was obvious or intuitive. That said, the stuff always worked precisely, accurately, and consistently. It’s probably telling that I never made an attempt to own anything they made after the turn of the millennium. I mean, I should note- I’m talking about a cartridge/tape-based automated gel electrophoresis robot. I don’t think you’ll ever need one of those at home unless you’re QC’ing a lot of molecular biology product or DNA
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Oct 15, 2020 00:09
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Has anyone heard of Lyric speakers? Someone is selling a pair of Lyric F-32s on Craigslist (for too high a price). I only found a few posts on AudioKarma noting that they were assembled by Fisher for U.S. sales. Otherwise not much to go off of. Also, thoughts on EPI T/E 70 Time/Energy Series Speakers at $100 for a pair? People on AudioKarma note that there are some hardware/refurbishing concerns but generally like the sound. $100 seems steep for the pair though.
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Oct 15, 2020 19:20
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Tortilla Maker posted:Has anyone heard of Lyric speakers? How do you feel about elbow grease for something really cracking that’ll cost you under $100 in the end? Cleaning out some space while the bench is down and I have an upgraded set of Thiel CS1 speakers that need replacement tweeter voice coils? It’s an easy-to-match Vifa part from a ways back and it’s got some drop-in replacements. Cabinets are rough but can easily be smoothed out and either painted or completely refinished. Woofers are good and Thiel sent me all new wiring, terminals, and caps for them when I acquired them 20 years ago. The last owner is an idiot and he managed to trash the tweeters by being a drunken lout. I re-acquired them at no cost. Haunting my tech room and in need of a home. You’re local and you can have them if you’re willing to pick up (I’ll get them out of the house etc for you, Covid and whatnot.)
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Oct 15, 2020 19:52
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I have a set of Thiel CS1’s in my bedroom and they are great. Highly recommend you skip out on the other poo poo you’re looking at and take the Thiels. CS stands for “coherent source” and that’s a very true statement.
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Oct 15, 2020 20:18
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RIP Paul Walker posted:I have a set of Thiel CS1’s in my bedroom and they are great. Highly recommend you skip out on the other poo poo you’re looking at and take the Thiels. CS stands for “coherent source” and that’s a very true statement. A shocking amount of speaker for the money. The only genuine “mistake” (not a matter of taste) was that, as a young company they made the decision to wire them with non-OFC copper, so the original wire was going green/black at the ends when I opened them up. When I called them about the tweeter, they ignored the second-hand status and sent me a “correction” package with a pair of new tweeters (original owner poked a hole in one), new speaker terminals, all new internal wiring, and a few component upgrades. I had never bought a pair new or called them before. Good folks.
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Oct 15, 2020 23:16
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Discernibly Turgid posted:How do you feel about elbow grease for something really cracking that’ll cost you under $100 in the end? Cleaning out some space while the bench is down and I have an upgraded set of Thiel CS1 speakers that need replacement tweeter voice coils? It’s an easy-to-match Vifa part from a ways back and it’s got some drop-in replacements. Cabinets are rough but can easily be smoothed out and either painted or completely refinished. Woofers are good and Thiel sent me all new wiring, terminals, and caps for them when I acquired them 20 years ago. The last owner is an idiot and he managed to trash the tweeters by being a drunken lout. I re-acquired them at no cost. Haunting my tech room and in need of a home. You’re local and you can have them if you’re willing to pick up (I’ll get them out of the house etc for you, Covid and whatnot.) Oh wow. That'd be great. I'll PM you to figure out logistics. Hopefully not on complete opposite sides of the DMV.
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Oct 16, 2020 00:07
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Tortilla Maker posted:Oh wow. That'd be great. I'll PM you to figure out logistics. Hopefully not on complete opposite sides of the DMV. PM received and we’re good location-wise. Won’t be tough to breathe some life back into these really worthwhile speakers.
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Oct 16, 2020 00:52
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Discernibly Turgid posted:A shocking amount of speaker for the money. The only genuine “mistake” (not a matter of taste) was that, as a young company they made the decision to wire them with non-OFC copper, so the original wire was going green/black at the ends when I opened them up. When I called them about the tweeter, they ignored the second-hand status and sent me a “correction” package with a pair of new tweeters (original owner poked a hole in one), new speaker terminals, all new internal wiring, and a few component upgrades. Mine currently don’t have any issues and I’m hesitant to open them up, but how long ago did you get the kit? I was under the impression they were out of business.
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Oct 16, 2020 01:14
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RIP Paul Walker posted:Mine currently don’t have any issues and I’m hesitant to open them up, but how long ago did you get the kit? I was under the impression they were out of business. ca. 1998. For what it’s worth, it wasn’t an actual “kit” as it was a care package. In their estimation, if I was doing the things I was doing and asking the questions I was asking, I could go that as well, so they threw it together. You’ll have to work through the mounting hole for the woofer to remove the crossover. Before you can do that you’ll have to get the terminal panel off the bottom of the speaker. In my case they sent me nicer ones, but otherwise I’d have been left to chose between heating the plate over and over until the glue starts to give way or simply removing them without care for getting them bent and then make replacement terminal blocks out of dual-layered plywood that recesses into the existing hole. Either will work and it won’t be visible. The wiring is pretty trivial once you have the crossover out.
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Oct 16, 2020 01:39
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Discernibly Turgid posted:ca. 1998. For what it’s worth, it wasn’t an actual “kit” as it was a care package. In their estimation, if I was doing the things I was doing and asking the questions I was asking, I could go that as well, so they threw it together. Ahh that makes sense! I will continue to enjoy them and not think about the lack of OFC wires inside.
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Oct 16, 2020 01:49
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Taking the opportunity to show off my Sony stack that I finally finished collecting from classifieds and flea markets. It'd be easy to put together something nicer, but not something this nice for cheaper. Lots of dust and battle scars, but that's part of the charm. Will be matched with the Sony APM speakers I posted earlier.
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Oct 16, 2020 13:37
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Well, THAT sucked. Fired up the HP for the first time in fifteen or so years to an curious (but not overwhelming) odor and a dead screen. It’ll be a bit before I can look, but apologies have been made to Gnarly (who has been gracious in his acceptance and even grateful that I even tested it) and that’s all a damned shame. Worse (for me, at least) still, it remains in my space. Tortilla (who is also awesome) picked up his Thiels and managed to conceal any expressions of disgust over their condition. Is that a “plus” for masks? A bit dustier than I figured. Thanks for the combo of help/graciousness both of you. I like this thread. I’ll try to document my complete Bryston tear down when I start it. If it’s anything like my original 3B (that looked like it’d been dropped down some stairs and then dragged behind a car before I got it) it’ll at least be a thorough process.
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Oct 16, 2020 17:17
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Discernibly Turgid posted:Tortilla (who is also awesome) picked up his Thiels and managed to conceal any expressions of disgust over their condition. Is that a “plus” for masks? A bit dustier than I figured. Was just coming this way to sing your praises! Really appreciate your generosity - both for the item itself but for offering to help troubleshoot along the way. Everyone should buy this man a beer.
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Oct 17, 2020 02:13
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So I sold my gigantic Klipsch La Scalas so I could afford to build basically 2 way La Scalas using big gently caress-off JBL 2446h compression drivers and Klipsch K510 horns up top. Have a Mcintosh MAC3 working as a DAC/Preamp, an RJM Audio Emerald DIY phono preamp, and an Ashly Protea 3.24cl DSP/Crossover/Delay box feeding a 4 channel digital amp for the big monsters and a Bryston 2B for whatever is in rotation. I need an adult to supervise my spending. Oh and a NAD C558 turntable. 
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Oct 20, 2020 20:16
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Sick
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Oct 21, 2020 01:40
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Question on preamps I currently have the AT-PEQ3, would the Cambridge Audio Alva Duo be much of an upgrade? I just rewired my Technics sl1200mk2 with KAB superflex and got the KAB Mogami W2528 w/ pcb. But im not sure if I should upgrade the preamp.
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Nov 1, 2020 20:01
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luchajones posted:Question on preamps Yes, it’d be a significant upgrade. All the clever audio circuitry in the world is still on a short leash when fed with a wall wart, and an op amp-based unit more so. The Cambridge is an improvement, but for the real liquidity and ease we want from vinyl you have to get away from switch mode power supplies. They’re really, really limited by the high output impedance and they end up being a terrible mismatch for any phono stage’s input section. Given the TT you’re using (and the parameters of the question) you’ll be pleased with the Alva Duo. Have fun! Not everyone is bold enough to do that sort of work with tables, so an extra tip of the hat for that 
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Nov 1, 2020 21:00
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Discernibly Turgid posted:Yes, it’d be a significant upgrade. All the clever audio circuitry in the world is still on a short leash when fed with a wall wart, and an op amp-based unit more so. The Cambridge is an improvement, but for the real liquidity and ease we want from vinyl you have to get away from switch mode power supplies. They’re really, really limited by the high output impedance and they end up being a terrible mismatch for any phono stage’s input section. Thanks I'm also looking into upgrading my stylus to an Ortofon Red. I have some AT 95 whatever now. I'm afraid to go higher than the Red. I can just look at the needle and it falls out/bends.
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Nov 1, 2020 21:13
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Discernibly Turgid posted:Yes, it’d be a significant upgrade. All the clever audio circuitry in the world is still on a short leash when fed with a wall wart, and an op amp-based unit more so. The Cambridge is an improvement, but for the real liquidity and ease we want from vinyl you have to get away from switch mode power supplies. They’re really, really limited by the high output impedance and they end up being a terrible mismatch for any phono stage’s input section. This audiophile nonsense giving me a migraine. A phono preamp doesn't need very much power, and a wall wart can supply plenty of juice for those needs. Similarly, the anti switch-mode power supply nonsense is just that, utter nonsense. High output impedance from a power supply affecting the audio section!? What are you even smoking? AT have been making turntables and preamps etc. for a long-rear end time. Any preamp from them is good.
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Nov 1, 2020 21:39
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Do they have wooden knobs though?
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Nov 1, 2020 21:48
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Anyone got recs for interesting looking turntable weights?
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Nov 1, 2020 22:03
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Not understanding what’s going on doesn’t turn something into audio nonsense. Cool your jets (or direct it at snake oil peddlers like Bob Cardas.) Ever notice that stage-to-stage input impedance are much higher in tube gear than solid state? It’s not audio nonsense. Filling that tube preamp with 1% metal film resistors is nonsense (and has the unfortunate side effect of turning the 1/2M resistors into “audiophile “ antennae. Stage-to-stage in an audio device you have to account for the dampening factors. Factor gets too high or low and you’re going to see (hear) that. Its not a question of current demands from a circuit as to whether or not a SMPS is desirable. Where do you think the current that actually amplifies an audio signal comes from if mit the supply? Interstate engineering is real and that’s true regardless of whether or not idiots are selling/buying “room ionizing woodblocks carved by monks” or whatever other bullshit is going on. It’s not an exotic theory, it’s engineering. SMPS are increasingly common because they’re cheap (in terms of materials), have a small footprint, and bring down costs (by virtue of size and weight) when it comes time ship things. That was a pointless and needless attack.
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Nov 1, 2020 23:08
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Discernibly Turgid posted:Ever notice that stage-to-stage input impedance are much higher in tube gear than solid state? It’s not audio nonsense. Filling that tube preamp with 1% metal film resistors is nonsense (and has the unfortunate side effect of turning the 1/2M resistors into “audiophile “ antennae. The input/output impedance of tube gear is completely irrelevant to the subject matter of solid state phono preamps. Discernibly Turgid posted:Stage-to-stage in an audio device you have to account for the dampening factors. Factor gets too high or low and you’re going to see (hear) that. Which is again completely irrelevant to the subject matter of competently designed solid stage phono preamps, from respected manufacturers such as Audio-Technica and (arguably) Cambridge Audio. Discernibly Turgid posted:Its not a question of current demands from a circuit as to whether or not a SMPS is desirable. Where do you think the current that actually amplifies an audio signal comes from if mit the supply? Interstate engineering is real and that’s true regardless of whether or not idiots are selling/buying “room ionizing woodblocks carved by monks” or whatever other bullshit is going on. It’s not an exotic theory, it’s engineering. SMPS are increasingly common because they’re cheap (in terms of materials), have a small footprint, and bring down costs (by virtue of size and weight) when it comes time ship things. Please be so kind as to provide some actual credible proof, including measurements, which supports your claim that a switch-mode power supply is inadequate for use with a solid-state phono preamp. Please also provide proof that using a linear power supply provides superior "real liquidity and ease" in comparison to using a switch-mode power supply. Additionally, please provide credible definitions of those terms and what they actually mean. E: luchajones, just keep the AT-PEQ3. The only reason to change it out is if you want to venture into tube preamps for deliberate coloration of the sound. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Nov 2, 2020 |
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Nov 2, 2020 13:46
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I have a AT-PEQ3 and it Sounds GOod
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Nov 2, 2020 17:37
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KozmoNaut posted:The input/output impedance of tube gear is completely irrelevant to the subject matter of solid state phono preamps. Forgot to mention: phone posting while in Detroit making sure votes get counted. It’s messy and makes for disjointed writing. “Inadequate” is different from “incapable.” One analogy would be comparing makes and formulas of tires: while you might not notice much in a commuter Camry, it would be obtuse to claim there are not measurable, real differences. AT and Cambridge producing equipment using that technology is NOT a kind of proof that they view it as anything other than “better” in a cost-benefit analysis of budget preamps. The mention of interstate impedance considerations was to illustrate that it’s a real consideration. A switching supply (or even an over-filtered supply like in your average “power conditioner”) creates a situation in which different frequency groups (well down into the audible range) are subjected to a different set of delays/filters (by design) that then has consequences on current delivery to the attached devices. Same goes for crossovers as the order goes up: amplitude response can be improved, but phase suffers. A SMPS is a device almost uniquely unsuited to analog audio (whether in amplification stages or simple output devices) in a not-insignificant way, because they operate at such incredibly high frequencies that the filtering required for them produces phase issues all of the way down into the audio spectrum. A coherent, defined stereo image relies on the preservation of phase information. Just as bitstream devices can do plenty of things in terms of creating a smooth waveform, they don’t preserve phase. This is NOT a call for anything exotic or esoteric. Any design that relies on exotic materials/parts (capacities folded according to golden ratio, etc.) are, at best, snake oil and bullshit. A Bryston, for example, doesn’t use anything exotic or unique in its construction. The reason some digital amps have done well in some applications is because of the combination of efficiency and a (in some of the better units) completely silent background. Part of that background is in how the SMPS (effectively) “turns off” the output devices, but another real part of that is the layering of filters onto that supply. Makes SMPS better in a HT context, but doesn’t do an adequate job of preserving phase when put in a system that is capable of resolving that. I don’t mean some goofy, anti-science nonsense, just that the gear is up to it. Look at Dunlavy, for an example of that design principle. It’s novelty-free and instead relies on solid parts (used to be mostly nicer Viga drivers), well-made crossover parts (heavy gauge air-core inductors and 1st order slopes in order to achieve a REALLY orderly impulse-response once the drivers are properly offset), and large, relatively inert enclosures that are properly damped (instead of integrator-assisted bass units that, by their nature, induce multiple levels of phase delay) and it’s a spectacular result. When things are cheap/inexpensive, compromises are a necessity. A SMPS gets price down in several ways, but it does not (and cannot) do that without penalties in the areas of phase response and impedance-induced issues. Really, I do NOT care for any of the audiophile “woo” stuff, but I also don’t go for the old Tom Norton assertion that, for example, “unless broken, all amplifiers sound the same.” Given a reasonable amplitude response curve (you can have some dips or decent size here and there, just watch out for peaks, as our ears really notice that stuff), phase is how we determine the location from which a sound originated. You CAN have a really, really impressive amplitude response curve and upper and lower frequency bounds from all-SMPS gear and be happy if that’s what you want/how you listen. IF, however, you are going to use two speakers and produce the illusion of a multi-dimensional musical event, preserving the phase integrity of that signal is one of the highest priorities possible. That’s why, despite their massive flaws (and, of course, inability to even do stereo), 78s produce a really engaging, lifelike event. It isn’t how I like to listen, but it’s pretty remarkable. Liking what you like is, to use a common expression around here, cool and good. Grab a modest (even op amp-based) phono stage of simple design and run it off a basic, linear +/- supply and then do the same with a SMPS. If you want to look at the behavior, go for it, as you will see some differences (including current rise-times across frequency domains and phase issues related to the filtering of the supply. It’s a false equivalency, but you can either do the work yourself or disagree. I’m not your private lab and I’m not putting stuff aside to stage experiments for you. There are plenty of things in the world to be upset and confrontational about, but this ain’t one.
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Nov 2, 2020 17:52
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I once used the wrong power supply and all the notes came out in the wrong order.
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Nov 2, 2020 18:30
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EL BROMANCE posted:I once used the wrong power supply and all the notes came out in the wrong order. Ha. Thanks, I needed that
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Nov 2, 2020 18:40
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Prove it.
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Nov 2, 2020 23:08
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KozmoNaut posted:Prove it. Rude.
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Nov 3, 2020 01:25
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Discernibly Turgid posted:A SMPS is a device almost uniquely unsuited to analog audio (whether in amplification stages or simple output devices) in a not-insignificant way, because they operate at such incredibly high frequencies that the filtering required for them produces phase issues all of the way down into the audio spectrum. A coherent, defined stereo image relies on the preservation of phase information. Just as bitstream devices can do plenty of things in terms of creating a smooth waveform, they don’t preserve phase. You keep posting these giant word salads which don't make any sense. When an amplification stage is powered by a SMPS, the SMPS output filter isn't in the signal path. Phase delay would be the least of your problems if you tried to put an audio signal through a filter designed like that, because the ideal passband for such a filter is 0Hz to 0Hz. But that's OK, because once again, Not The Signal Path. Switching noise is the only reason to be afraid of a SMPS in audio applications. As a circuit designer, it's easier to avoid power supply noise issues if you just throw an inefficient linear regulator at the job, but still not impossible to screw up. But if you want better efficiency, you might want to take the extra effort to put in a good SMPS. In either case, good design should produce a clean power rail. Are SMPS regulators inherently noisier than linear? Yes. Does any good amplifier design have a high power supply noise rejection ratio (PSRR)? Also yes. Do the magnitudes of a good SMPS regulator's noise and the PSRR of a good audio amp circuit cancel out such that you can build an incredibly good analog audio amp powered by a SMPS regulator? Yes. Without extraordinary design effort? Also yes!
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Nov 3, 2020 04:02
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Hey, large hands First replacement board for your 55ES is ready (still have the main PCB to go through, but that will happen soon.) Dug the donor amp out of the storage stacks in the garage, and he doesn't look pretty.  It's a pretty simple amp though, so after a ride on the variac it was ready to be biased up, completely smoke free. So far, the board got a bit of a cleaning and then a little tuneup. Some of the unused (and poorly-implemented) features have been dispensed with, so the stereo/mono switch, the circuitry for the opamp at the core of the mono feature, the crappy ol' 78xx and 79xx regulators for said opamp, the trash grade attenuator bypassed, and a bunch of steel jumpers have been removed or bypassed. When Sony really wants to do great stuff, they do, but this is one of those units with some strong features and some lazy/cheap implementation in spots. The original grounding scheme for this board is pretty inexplicable, so the ground has been relocated to where the action is (you can tie the ground wire into the length of copper coming up through the board near the STK's caps if you're feeling a bit lazy, or you could go bare wire and slide that under the small loop I left under the board and then solder it for a much better connection. Whole supply section for the STK will be a lot stiffer and quieter now. There are film caps across the electrolytics. This is not (as some folks think) some half-assed, wishful thinking attempt to make the electrolytic "sound" like the film cap, but rather it DOES significantly assist in improving the IM distortion performance of an electrolytic capacitor that is either unbiased or at very low bias. It's also not uncommon for electrolytics to see a rise in impedance as frequency increases beyond a certain point (determined by the cap and the circuit interacting) and a suitable film device can counter that effect. There's a length of 22/2 connecting the rear jacks to what was the input from the attenuator. The lad formerly presented by the attenuator at -0dB now exists as a pair of resistors connected directly to the jacks, with the unjacketed portion of the cable serving as your ground between the jacks and the input into the STK.      Main board will get prepped in the coming days.
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Nov 9, 2020 03:37
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Looks fantastic, thanks man! I'm very excited to put it all together and get it hooked up through the TA80ES. I never understood the point of the attenuator on the power amp and it was one more knob that my kids could turn and cause trouble.
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Nov 9, 2020 04:05
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This reads like an AI that was trained on 10,000 pages of audiophile vinyl forums. A lot of your statements sound like conflations of vaguely related concepts or straight pseudoscience. I don't mean to be overly rude it's just that someone else's money is on the line here and it's valid to want to save them additional expense. On a vaguely related note, I am fixing up a turntable for my old man. It's a Denon DP45f fully automatic, and I've got a separate adjustable MM/MC phono preamp for it, I just need to buy a new cartridge because all of his are old and worn. Anyone got any recommendations for a solid, $100-200 ish cartidge that measures objectively/isn't hokum and will last a long time? Dad's got a bit of a fixing for MC but it's not a hard requirement
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Nov 10, 2020 01:56
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Since the OP of this thread is rather old and light on info regarding new receivers, is there one that can handle a turntable from the 1970s, a tape deck from the late 80s, and a CD player from the mid 90s, plus AM/FM radio and a bunch of speakers? Our old 70s Heathkit is basically dying of old age and cannot be balanced anymore especially with stereo records even after an attempt to fix it. I'm sure I'm missing some technical information to make this question less vague, so any advice on what my dumb rear end should be considering/looking up is appreciated. So far my googling attempts have turned up something like this and a whole host of things that tend more toward a home theater set up than just audio.
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Nov 10, 2020 04:03
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