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Stop loving fighting about people who study economists in this thread. I've been busy with family emergency poo poo over the last few days and probs will be a for another day or two, so I'm not really keeping up with the thread atm, but please try to stay on topic.
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Oct 17, 2020 23:58
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Ramp all these white noise derails. Someone can make a first concert thread in at least 8 forums. There's usually a chat thread anyway. That and food
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Oct 18, 2020 02:15
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Someone got insta-probated for the possibility of starting a Biden "derail" in the US Politics thread but nothing can be done about pages of Post Your Favorite Concert.
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Oct 18, 2020 02:19
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beejay posted:Someone got insta-probated for the possibility of starting a Biden "derail" in the US Politics thread but nothing can be done about pages of Post Your Favorite Concert. People were having fun and not horribly depressed in USPOL today, I insist the mods do something about this problem.
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Oct 18, 2020 02:27
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Well in that case why don't we just not have the thread and always talk about happy things?
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Oct 18, 2020 02:31
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I would say from experience that having some levity in a thread is helpfulf for discussing less happy things because otherwise you just want to die all of the time when you read the thread.
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Oct 18, 2020 02:33
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fool of sound posted:Stop loving fighting about people who study economists in this thread. I've been busy with family emergency poo poo over the last few days and probs will be a for another day or two, so I'm not really keeping up with the thread atm, but please try to stay on topic. fos, it might be best to close the thread until it can be attended to. Good luck with the family emergency poo poo.
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Oct 18, 2020 02:53
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OwlFancier posted:I would say from experience that having some levity in a thread is helpfulf for discussing less happy things because otherwise you just want to die all of the time when you read the thread. I agree generally but pages of off topic bullshit is beyond ridiculous, especially in context of the wider discussion of so called bad posts/posting/posters. there's some real good posts about politics and music, and thats a great and interesting discussion that should be nourished! Music is great! But just listing the first concert, best concert, etc we literally have a whole subforum for. Discussion of boycotting, donations, chick fila and stuff is cool! But the posts solely reminiscing about the last time the poster ate there are bad. And so forth. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Oct 18, 2020 |
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Oct 18, 2020 05:14
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OwlFancier posted:I would say from experience that having some levity in a thread is helpfulf for discussing less happy things because otherwise you just want to die all of the time when you read the thread. Off-topic talk that lasts for pages and drowns out attempts at on-topic discussion sucks, and that definitely happens in the UKMT (and presumably the USPOL threads). e: That said, the more acrimonious a thread is, the more off-topic discussion probably needs to be allowed. Like, it's a safety valve, and four pages about the correct type of pizza trumps two pages of people calling each other murderous rapists, even if the latter is part of an on-topic discussion. A Buttery Pastry fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Oct 18, 2020 |
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Oct 18, 2020 06:26
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OwlFancier posted:I would say from experience that having some levity in a thread is helpfulf for discussing less happy things because otherwise you just want to die all of the time when you read the thread. otoh when a derail has gone on for over 24 hours it's probably appropriate to send it to it's own thread
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Oct 18, 2020 06:35
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I dunno, like, even in UKMT I think the prevalence of off topic discussion is usually indicative that there isn't really much to discuss on-topic. The thing about 24hr news is that a lot of it doesn't... really matter? Or a lot of it is the same poo poo that's been happening for ages. I think off topic posting in a general thread is kinda a symptom of that, if something actually phenomenal happened then people would probably find that more interesting, but it seldom does. Posting the latest news reports about how we're all doomed so everyone can go "lol we are" is far more tiresome, IMO, than posting about random poo poo, even if the former is technically more "on topic" and as you note, people can often tie in interesting political opinions that tie into the off topic discussion. Not all posts will be that but if the derail results in those posts (and is something everyone wants to contribute to and enjoys contributing to enough to keep doing it for hours) then I think that's a net positive?
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Oct 18, 2020 14:17
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Then post or post in other threads, it's ok for uspol to quiet down and d&d chat pick up. This ties a lot to the megathreads discusion happening in qcs. But these threads are long enough without continuous active derails
Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Oct 18, 2020 |
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Oct 18, 2020 15:11
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I mean equally I think it's ok for it to just happen in the threads it happens in? Like it usually happens there for a reason, either there is something posted in that thread that starts it or it is the people posting there who want to engage in it. Threads are usually on topic but I don't think they have to be on topic all the time? Off topic discussion just doesn't bother me even if I'm not part of it, and I don't really understand being bothered by it. It is just how conversations work, they wander, but there is no posting agenda we have to get through before we can log off for the day so it doesn't matter.
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Oct 18, 2020 15:20
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Probably time to close this thread, as discussion has transitioned away from the thread subject to unrelated grievances.
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Oct 18, 2020 15:31
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Take care of your family and yourself, fool of sound!
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Oct 18, 2020 15:48
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Harold Fjord posted:Then post or post in other threads, it's ok for uspol to quiet down and d&d chat pick up. This really isn't feasible without a drastic change in forums moderation philosophy from what we have now. People Like to Post. I don't understand why thread length is an issue, you don't have to read all the posts in a thread.
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Oct 18, 2020 19:18
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I have a question. How does someone accrue 3 pages worth of probations along with 5 bans and on top of that is one of the most ignored posters on this website yet still hasn't been shown the door? Wouldn't someone like this be the perfect candidate to permaban? If not a permaban then at least chain bans/1 month probations every single time they shitpost at this stage of their account's life? I believe pointing out specific posters is frowned upon ITT so I've left the user's name out.
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Oct 18, 2020 19:24
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Flying-PCP posted:This really isn't feasible without a drastic change in forums moderation philosophy from what we have now. People Like to Post. I don't understand why thread length is an issue, you don't have to read all the posts in a thread. But I do have to read on topic posts if I'm going to participate in on topic discussion. There's no way to ha e a good faith discussion of serious issues while skipping pages at a time of random bullshit because there's no telling what's in the page til you read it
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Oct 18, 2020 19:43
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The most basic moderation is keeping things on topic. I'm not sure why this would ever be controversial. If just posting whatever is good, then why even have threads or even subforums?
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Oct 18, 2020 19:53
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Because having threads and subforums keeps things generally on topic by itself. The idea that you need someone standing watch with a stick to hit people who stray from the topic is counterproductive to having enjoyable conversations and is more likely to just make people not want to post at all.
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Oct 18, 2020 19:54
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OwlFancier posted:Because having threads and subforums keeps things generally on topic by itself. The idea that you need someone standing watch with a stick to hit people who stray from the topic is counterproductive to having enjoyable conversations and is more likely to just make people not want to post at all. Yet these sticks exist and are used regularly, even for clearly on topic issues that might derail concert chat. I'm really not at all talking generalities.
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Oct 18, 2020 19:59
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OwlFancier posted:Because having threads and subforums keeps things generally on topic by itself. The idea that you need someone standing watch with a stick to hit people who stray from the topic is counterproductive to having enjoyable conversations and is more likely to just make people not want to post at all. This tendency also leads to people shutting down perfectly legitimate and relevant, albeit ancillary, discussions when someone decides its not narrowly within the bounds of the thread topic. The forums are a social space and a couple pages on pizza toppings in the most broadly encompassing thread on the sub once every few months is not meaningfully an issue that needs addressing.
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Oct 18, 2020 20:01
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And the consistent argument I have made regarding all aspects of moderation is that it is seldom helpful and less of it would be desirable, that all it achieves most of the time is annoying people and fails to substantively address issues. You can't probate your way out of something that keeps happening unless your goal is to just stop people posting altogether, which is a poo poo solution.
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Oct 18, 2020 20:01
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I just think it's funny that talking about the policies of the potential next President of the United States is disallowed in the US Politics thread, but go hog wild talking about food and music. If that's what mods want then cool, but my opinion is that it lowers the overall quality of the forum. edit: Also I find it hard to reconcile that it seems *something* is bugging the D&D mods about how the forum is going, considering the feedback posts and the implementations of slow mode and stuff... but that the derail thing is allowed and tacitly encouraged. Like, slow mode was implemented in US Pol because there were too many posts happening regarding the death of a Supreme Court justice, but pages of PYF concert is fine? It just doesn't make sense to me. I'm fully certain the end result here will be a mod will say "hey it only lasted x amount of time and now it's over" because that's what I always hear back about lengthy derails. I'm just asking that you think about it. I'll stop here. beejay fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Oct 18, 2020 |
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Oct 18, 2020 20:24
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Start by replacing all the mods/IKs who were doing unpaid labor for lowtax during the period when we knew he was an abuser but he still owned the forums.
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Oct 18, 2020 23:35
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Vorik posted:I have a question. How does someone accrue 3 pages worth of probations along with 5 bans and on top of that is one of the most ignored posters on this website yet still hasn't been shown the door? Wouldn't someone like this be the perfect candidate to permaban? If not a permaban then at least chain bans/1 month probations every single time they shitpost at this stage of their account's life? Because people shouldn't be permabanned for anything short of like, actual crimes? Moderation by ignore list is a deeply stupid and infantile way to do things, and it's easy to stack up pages of probations by just loving about without any real malice. Probate people if they're being lovely, ban them if they go too far with it Also what the gently caress is this "I know we're not supposed to single out posters, but I really want to, so I'm not going to actually say their name, just list their crimes and suggest perma-ing them!" poo poo? It's the worst kind of weaselly rules lawyering, idiotic I'm-not-touching-you childishness some plague rats fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Oct 19, 2020 |
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Oct 19, 2020 00:43
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NaanViolence posted:Start by replacing all the mods/IKs who were doing unpaid labor for lowtax during the period when we knew he was an abuser but he still owned the forums. Make everyone an IK until they issue their first probe.
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Oct 19, 2020 02:27
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Crane Fist posted:Because people shouldn't be permabanned for anything short of like, actual crimes?[/b] What's the logic behind this?
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Oct 19, 2020 07:33
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Ither posted:What's the logic behind this? They approve of the harassment because it is being done by a pal. The poster in question's old schtick was accusing anyone that didn't like Bernie Sanders of being an antisemite before their current schtick. Sinister_Beekeeper fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Oct 19, 2020 |
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Oct 19, 2020 12:50
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e- nvm
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Oct 19, 2020 13:05
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Crane Fist posted:Five posts from OP to "improve D&D by banning my posting enemies" Crane Fist posted:Stop mealy-mouthing it and name some people who you think should be given ramping probes so we can know what you're actually advocating here Crane Fist posted:Also what the gently caress is this "I know we're not supposed to single out posters, but I really want to, so I'm not going to actually say their name, just list their crimes and suggest perma-ing them!" poo poo? It's the worst kind of weaselly rules lawyering, idiotic I'm-not-touching-you childishness Somebody is very concerned that other people might not like their posting friends!
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Oct 19, 2020 20:19
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There is a specific forums-wide rule about abusing the letter of the law to avoid following the spirit of it, and I feel like that should be enforced hard in discussions when we get to the point of people explicitly listing identifiable rap sheets so as to avoid speaking someone's name
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Oct 19, 2020 20:35
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I'm all for not naming and calling out in this thread, but please, have some dignity. If you really want to tear into your posting enemies, do it. Don't hide behind describing rapsheets. That's some real teacher's pet poo poo.
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Oct 19, 2020 21:16
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Somfin posted:There is a specific forums-wide rule about abusing the letter of the law to avoid following the spirit of it, and I feel like that should be enforced hard in discussions when we get to the point of people explicitly listing identifiable rap sheets so as to avoid speaking someone's name But that's precisely why those rap sheets are so identifiable: because they are egregious examples of people who keep breaking the rules, to the point where most people recognize those posters and do their best to avoid them. Your suggestion that it is in fact the people who point at those examples who should be punished comes across as concern trolling, to me.
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Oct 19, 2020 21:40
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Someone that has spend the better part of the last year probed multiple times a week might not be someone that's beneficial to the community, regardless of who or what they support. Literally we used to permaban posters for the same poo poo before but it didn't take them being probed for the same thing again and again and again constantly for the better part of 4 years and being on probation for the majority of a calendar year. Surprisingly, toxic people that do nothing but cause problems tend to not fix their issues
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Oct 19, 2020 21:47
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enraged_camel posted:But that's precisely why those rap sheets are so identifiable: because they are egregious examples of people who keep breaking the rules, to the point where most people recognize those posters and do their best to avoid them. Your suggestion that it is in fact the people who point at those examples who should be punished comes across as concern trolling, to me. It's about naming names. If you describe a rapsheet precisely, or someone has a unique combo of entries, it's jusy saying the name with extra steps.
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Oct 19, 2020 21:48
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Sinister_Beekeeper posted:They approve of the harassment because it is being done by a pal. Cut this out. Seriously, we know some posters have extensive rap sheets and should be getting ramped. This isn't the place to put them on trial. If you want to ask us 'why haven't you banned this fucker yet??' shoot one of us a PM. Alternatively if you think it needs some oversight, PM an admin and they'll talk to us about it.
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Oct 19, 2020 22:04
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Doctor Butts posted:Somebody is very concerned that other people might not like their posting friends! This is the most pathetic, baby-brained takeaway from my posts you could possibly have arrived at
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Oct 19, 2020 22:17
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enraged_camel posted:But that's precisely why those rap sheets are so identifiable: because they are egregious examples of people who keep breaking the rules, to the point where most people recognize those posters and do their best to avoid them. Your suggestion that it is in fact the people who point at those examples who should be punished comes across as concern trolling, to me. If there is a punishment for naming names, and someone is using specific identifying information in order to, deliberately and technically, not name names, then they are obeying only the letter of the law while deliberately defying its spirit. There is a forums-wide rule against that. You know this, because you agreed to it when you signed up. I'm not concern trolling, I'm saying that folks who want to use this thread to call out specific people should just do that, rather than being allowed to continue breaking a site-wide rule against gaming the rules.
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Oct 19, 2020 22:48
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Dixon Chisholm posted:It's about naming names. If you describe a rapsheet precisely, or someone has a unique combo of entries, it's jusy saying the name with extra steps. Thanks for the response. I understand where you're coming from. Specifically, I can see how, from a certain perspective, this looks like walking along the boundaries of established rules without quite breaking them, which is of course not desirable behavior. However, the purpose of this thread is to discuss ramping policy. It is simply not possible to discuss such a topic effectively in abstract and theoretical terms — indeed, when some people attempted to do so earlier in the thread, others strongly demanded that they give specific examples! Case in point, from page 2: quote:Stop mealy-mouthing it and name some people who you think should be given ramping probes so we can know what you're actually advocating here Of course, naming posters like that is against the rules to. Therefore, the only remaining option is to describe rap sheets. That way, you can give specific, non-theoretical examples while hopefully avoiding the flame war and derailment that would undoubtedly result from putting terrible posters on trial. The fact that those example rap sheets are so egregious that they are easily recognized only furthers the argument that those posters should perhaps have their probations ramped up significantly. I don't think it should be used to probate the posters giving those examples, because they are in fact contributing to the discussion and advancing their arguments in the only means available to them, and I very much doubt their intent is to play Rules Lawyer.
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Oct 19, 2020 22:52
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