The spirit of turbo folk is alive in Armenia

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > The spirit of turbo folk is alive in Armenia

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Malkina_: May 13, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

Sheng-Ji Yang posted:

next world war is just going to be swarms of drones colliding into each other until the nukes fall

I want to at least see remote infantry t-800 drones walking around first

# ? Oct 18, 2020 18:35

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 16:36

22 Eargesplitten: Oct 10, 2010

Raskolnikov38 posted:

yeah you need radar tracking to hit them. the isreali drones have service ceilings of commercial airliners (suicide drones seem to cap out at 10k-20k feet) and they all move at 150+ mph.

e: though i wonder if putting up a flak wall would work

Also I'm not sure how solidly modern drones are constructed but hypothetically they could pull maneuvers humans can't because the electronics won't black out when it hits a certain number of Gs. Even ignoring that, on top of what Rask said they're loving tiny compared to any other aircraft since they don't have to fit humans and seats and instrument panels and poo poo like that.

# ? Oct 18, 2020 19:42

Shaocaholica: Oct 29, 2002; Fig. 5E

Which side has the drones again? Azeri?

# ? Oct 18, 2020 19:48

Stairmaster: Jun 8, 2012

Raskolnikov38 posted:

yeah you need radar tracking to hit them. the isreali drones have service ceilings of commercial airliners (suicide drones seem to cap out at 10k-20k feet) and they all move at 150+ mph.

e: though i wonder if putting up a flak wall would work

I mean we have world war ii to see how well that worked.

# ? Oct 18, 2020 19:54

Zedhe Khoja: Nov 10, 2017; sürgünden selamlar
yıkıcılar ulusuna

Shaocaholica posted:

Which side has the drones again? Azeri?

Yeah the Azeri have the Israeli and Turkish arms industries in their corner and both are major drone producers.

# ? Oct 18, 2020 20:19

Shaocaholica: Oct 29, 2002; Fig. 5E

Seems like an opportunity for Russia to test its anti drone tech.

# ? Oct 18, 2020 20:49

wisconsingreg: Jan 13, 2019

https://twitter.com/Hezbolsonaro/status/1317706256589541378

# ? Oct 18, 2020 21:00

Zedhe Khoja: Nov 10, 2017; sürgünden selamlar
yıkıcılar ulusuna

Who did Kazakhstan genocide? The scythians?

# ? Oct 18, 2020 21:08

sum: Nov 15, 2010

Arven posted:

Traditional AA hasn't worked on anything but helicopters since Vietnam.

There are a couple clips from this conflict of AA futilely firing at drones and not being able to hit. I think they're much faster, further, and higher than they appear.

That's because it's nearly impossible to hit a jet at 50000 feet going Mach 1 with an AA burst. A drone going 100 knots at 10000 feet is a lot easier. (You might say, "well why not make the drone faster and more maneuverable?," which would work but also make it much more expensive. Which solves the problem of cheap drone swarms)

# ? Oct 18, 2020 22:47

BattleMaster: Aug 14, 2000

People don't fly low anymore because of radar-guided autocannon AA systems. After the introduction of SAMs it became common practice to fly low to render them useless, which prompted the introduction of vehicles like the ZSU-23-4 Shilka. Israel suffered heavy losses to Shilkas during the Yom Kippur war while flying low to avoid missiles. Some more recent systems like the 2K22 Tunguska combine both missiles and autocannons.

However, more recently than that people have just gone all-in on SAMs, probably because no one flies low anymore. But given the lower speed and lower altitude of drones, I think it's possible that radar-tracked autocannons would be useful to counter them and may see more of a revival in the future.

What prompted this thought also, was those EM jamming weapons which are directional and have to be aimed at a target. I just figured that if you were able to detect and track the drone before it killed you, that you'd probably have more success firing actual weapons at it than trying to jam it with less certainty of success. You hit it with a burst from a jammer, you don't know if it will be stopped. You hit it with a burst from an autocannnon, it's probably going to be stopped.

# ? Oct 18, 2020 23:25

Seatbelts: Mar 29, 2010

BattleMaster posted:

People don't fly low anymore because of radar-guided autocannon AA systems. After the introduction of SAMs it became common practice to fly low to render them useless, which prompted the introduction of vehicles like the ZSU-23-4 Shilka. Israel suffered heavy losses to Shilkas during the Yom Kippur war while flying low to avoid missiles. Some more recent systems like the 2K22 Tunguska combine both missiles and autocannons.

However, more recently than that people have just gone all-in on SAMs, probably because no one flies low anymore. But given the lower speed and lower altitude of drones, I think it's possible that radar-tracked autocannons would be useful to counter them and may see more of a revival in the future.

What prompted this thought also, was those EM jamming weapons which are directional and have to be aimed at a target. I just figured that if you were able to detect and track the drone before it killed you, that you'd probably have more success firing actual weapons at it than trying to jam it with less certainty of success. You hit it with a burst from a jammer, you don't know if it will be stopped. You hit it with a burst from an autocannnon, it's probably going to be stopped.

Worse than that; most drones don't need constant uplink to function and the countermeasures won't stop the drone from actually working, It might not need to phone home at all for permission launch an attack.

# ? Oct 19, 2020 00:41

Zeno-25: Dec 5, 2009; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Something like the Centurion C-RAM seems like it would be the best existing system to adapt to anti-drone warfare, at least for the US military

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_CIWS#Centurion_C-RAM

Zeno-25 has issued a correction as of 01:47 on Oct 19, 2020

# ? Oct 19, 2020 01:45

BattleMaster: Aug 14, 2000

Zeno-25 posted:

Something like the Centurion C-RAM seems like it would be the best existing system to adapt to anti-drone warfare, at least for the US military

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_CIWS#Centurion_C-RAM

Holy poo poo, I didn't know they just up and bolted a Phalanx to a truck. Yeah that's the sort of weapon system I'm thinking of

# ? Oct 19, 2020 01:49

Zeno-25: Dec 5, 2009; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

If you look up "Centurion mortar attack Iraq" there are a bunch of really cool old videos on YouTube of the system in action

Zeno-25 has issued a correction as of 01:58 on Oct 19, 2020

# ? Oct 19, 2020 01:51

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

apropos of this conversation although not directly related, i thought this video (from lockheed) about how the U.S. navy's LRASM works was pretty scary... with visualizations of how the uplink system works before the missiles basically go into "drone" mode and do the rest of the mission themselves

i also have to give lockheed credit for leaning into the fact that "we're a dystopian nightmare corporation"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h449oIjg2kY

BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 01:58 on Oct 19, 2020

# ? Oct 19, 2020 01:53

wisconsingreg: Jan 13, 2019

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

apropos of this conversation although not directly related, i thought this video (from lockheed) about how the U.S. navy's LRASM works was pretty scary... with visualizations of how the uplink system works before the missiles basically go into "drone" mode and do the rest of the mission themselves

i also have to give lockheed credit for leaning into the fact that "we're a dystopian nightmare corporation"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h449oIjg2kY

lmao, love the totally not a russian cruiser ship

# ? Oct 19, 2020 02:10

BattleMaster: Aug 14, 2000

Zeno-25 posted:

If you look up "Centurion mortar attack Iraq" there are a bunch of really cool old videos on YouTube of the system in action

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lgHKhvuIYU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83UNbs8SMIc

Yeah wow. I've seen daytime firings of the Phalanx on ships firing but it looks even cooler at night. The shells detonating when the tracers burn out :eyepop:

So when are we going to see the Centurion CRAMmeD upgrade (Counter-Rocket, Artillery, Mortar, Drone)???

Actually probably never because the US is not interested in fighting people who can fight back

# ? Oct 19, 2020 02:13

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

apropos of this conversation although not directly related, i thought this video (from lockheed) about how the U.S. navy's LRASM works was pretty scary... with visualizations of how the uplink system works before the missiles basically go into "drone" mode and do the rest of the mission themselves

i also have to give lockheed credit for leaning into the fact that "we're a dystopian nightmare corporation"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h449oIjg2kY

Actually when the datalink gets lost the missiles home in on the nearest wedding or hospital.

# ? Oct 19, 2020 02:45

UnknownTarget: Sep 5, 2019

Anti-drone weaponry is probably going to be the same as used against aircraft. Military drones are about the size of regular jets and fly at similar altitudes. CRAMs would be good against suicide drones, which are basically missiles, which is what CRAMs are designed for anyway.

Personally I find the most interesting thing to be the visualization of a battlespace going forward. When you have multiple interlocking weapons systems, I think being able to boil it all down to the control of one or two people, instead of the dozens it might take now, is going to be a real gamechanger.

# ? Oct 19, 2020 05:13

Shaocaholica: Oct 29, 2002; Fig. 5E

Is war just esports now with all this kill cam footage making it to the public sphere?

# ? Oct 19, 2020 07:54

Sheng-Ji Yang: Mar 5, 2014

https://twitter.com/AllezLesBoulez/status/1318036061117947904

# ? Oct 19, 2020 18:19

Azathoth: Apr 3, 2001

Shaocaholica posted:

Is war just esports now with all this kill cam footage making it to the public sphere?

Been going that way since...the Crimean War? I keep hearing about that being the first one to have journalists on scene reporting immediately. This is just the inevitable conclusion.

# ? Oct 19, 2020 19:26

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

I had a long summary of my '15 thread written up for the ME Conflict thread, but since two of the newest D&D mods + several admins are pissant little bitches with an axe to grind and I can't post there anymore:

My friend was killed in action in Hadrut on the 4th, likely in a drone strike. I had suspected the worst, due to complete radio silence on social media after the 28th, but I held out hope it was merely due to fighting a hot war. Sadly, my worst fears were confirmed and I'm still grappling with a lot of guilt re: western privilege and survival.

In 2015 I visited Artsakh from Canada to walk the Janapar, when I was 25. I had a GBS thread on the topic here as I went into it fairly suicidal and planning on being a neo-caro and heading into Syria at the end. I am in no way Armenian, not a drop of it in my veins, I was just fascinated with the history and culture from a young age.

While passing through the village of Shekher on my third day in Artsakh, I heard someone call out behind me excitedly. It was a young man very curious about what I was doing there, and he practically dragged me inside for lunch with his older brother Garik.

With my extremely rudimentary Armenian, Hayks not much better English, and a very old English-Armenian dictionary he found inside, we had a pretty great conversation and cultural exchange for a few hours. Before I left, he got my Facebook. At only fourteen, long before he chose it as his university major, he was already practicing International Relations with gusto.

Hayk and I corresponded over the years following, very infrequently this past year as he became busy with university and the military, and I with work (he learned English very fast!), but when we talked he always boldly asked the same question: "When are you coming back to Artsakh, my friend." I always deferred to a later date, but soon, and his disappointment was always palpable.

For almost two weeks, I hoped and prayed that he would somehow come out the other side of this and I could finally say that I would be visiting soon.

Sadly, that day will never come. He was killed in action on the 4th, while deployed in Hadrut which has seen the worst of the fighting. I got a read receipt for the message I sent him on the 28th which means he at least knew, at the end, that the world was watching and cared enough to send thoughts and prayers while he walked into a meat grinder to protect his family.

Hayk was 19.

I know that this conflict has slain hundreds on both sides, conservatively, and this is just one casualty among many. I had such high hopes for this young man, for his future and what he might do to change his country, to see him again as an adult and compliment him for his achievements, and I know many families and friends are currently feeling the same for their own losses. All of that potential, gone, wiped out in carnage.

It is just senseless, the bright minds and potential of a new generation being fed into a meat grinder by the feuds and machinations of old men who will likely never conceptualize loss or grief in human terms, only power.

From half a world away I now powerlessly grieve for one life I know is extinguished, and the lives of everyone else in the region who showed me unbelievable hospitality with no expectation of compensation - the fates of whom I may never discover.

# ? Oct 20, 2020 02:33

wisconsingreg: Jan 13, 2019

Rime posted:

I had a long summary of my '15 thread written up for the ME Conflict thread, but since two of the newest D&D mods + several admins are pissant little bitches with an axe to grind and I can't post there anymore:

My friend was killed in action in Hadrut on the 4th, likely in a drone strike. I had suspected the worst, due to complete radio silence on social media after the 28th, but I held out hope it was merely due to fighting a hot war. Sadly, my worst fears were confirmed and I'm still grappling with a lot of guilt re: western privilege and survival.

In 2015 I visited Artsakh from Canada to walk the Janapar, when I was 25. I had a GBS thread on the topic here as I went into it fairly suicidal and planning on being a neo-caro and heading into Syria at the end. I am in no way Armenian, not a drop of it in my veins, I was just fascinated with the history and culture from a young age.

While passing through the village of Shekher on my third day in Artsakh, I heard someone call out behind me excitedly. It was a young man very curious about what I was doing there, and he practically dragged me inside for lunch with his older brother Garik.

With my extremely rudimentary Armenian, Hayks not much better English, and a very old English-Armenian dictionary he found inside, we had a pretty great conversation and cultural exchange for a few hours. Before I left, he got my Facebook. At only fourteen, long before he chose it as his university major, he was already practicing International Relations with gusto.

Hayk and I corresponded over the years following, very infrequently this past year as he became busy with university and the military, and I with work (he learned English very fast!), but when we talked he always boldly asked the same question: "When are you coming back to Artsakh, my friend." I always deferred to a later date, but soon, and his disappointment was always palpable.

For almost two weeks, I hoped and prayed that he would somehow come out the other side of this and I could finally say that I would be visiting soon.

Sadly, that day will never come. He was killed in action on the 4th, while deployed in Hadrut which has seen the worst of the fighting. I got a read receipt for the message I sent him on the 28th which means he at least knew, at the end, that the world was watching and cared enough to send thoughts and prayers while he walked into a meat grinder to protect his family.

Hayk was 19.

I know that this conflict has slain hundreds on both sides, conservatively, and this is just one casualty among many. I had such high hopes for this young man, for his future and what he might do to change his country, to see him again as an adult and compliment him for his achievements, and I know many families and friends are currently feeling the same for their own losses. All of that potential, gone, wiped out in carnage.

It is just senseless, the bright minds and potential of a new generation being fed into a meat grinder by the feuds and machinations of old men who will likely never conceptualize loss or grief in human terms, only power.

From half a world away I now powerlessly grieve for one life I know is extinguished, and the lives of everyone else in the region who showed me unbelievable hospitality with no expectation of compensation - the fates of whom I may never discover.

can I share this?

# ? Oct 20, 2020 13:58

wisconsingreg: Jan 13, 2019

Just taking the lowlands still, but if they go north to Lachin the war might end.

# ? Oct 20, 2020 14:47

mila kunis: Jun 10, 2011

lol

https://twitter.com/cavidaga/status/1318481702600265731

# ? Oct 20, 2020 22:56

spankmeister: Jun 15, 2008

I'm sure their Israeli friends can help them with building a lot of settlements quickly in occupied territory.

# ? Oct 20, 2020 23:00

Zedhe Khoja: Nov 10, 2017; sürgünden selamlar
yıkıcılar ulusuna

Supposedly Zangelan is taken.
e: It's the first town taken that actually has people in it. Not many but a few.

# ? Oct 20, 2020 23:37

aphid_licker: Jan 7, 2009

Azeris can't be much more keen on settling in those territories than Armenians were. I know that a bunch of people were displaced but after 20+ years surely you managed to build a life in Baku or somewhere.

# ? Oct 20, 2020 23:44

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

aphid_licker posted:

Azeris can't be much more keen on settling in those territories than Armenians were. I know that a bunch of people were displaced but after 20+ years surely you managed to build a life in Baku or somewhere.

Yeah if there's still even a quarter million IDP's after thirty years that really needs to be viewed as the utter failure of the Aliyev regime in Baku, given they've been rolling in oil cash the entire time, and it's infuriating journalists aren't raising that obvious point.

Vasukhani posted:

can I share this?

Be my guest.

# ? Oct 21, 2020 00:25

Zedhe Khoja: Nov 10, 2017; sürgünden selamlar
yıkıcılar ulusuna

Azerbaijans gdp per capita is half of Turkeys, and 1/16 the USA's, and Azerbaijan is one of biggest sweatshop centers on the continent. The UAE it is not. I'm sure the Aliyev regime has intentionally dragged its feet on the issue for utterly cynical reasons, but you're kind underestimating the actual situation. The former occupants from the occupied region are about 5% of the population.

aphid_licker posted:

Azeris can't be much more keen on settling in those territories than Armenians were. I know that a bunch of people were displaced but after 20+ years surely you managed to build a life in Baku or somewhere.

Alot of em literally live in abandoned rail cars. Probably only 20k or so, but most of the others aren't much better.

# ? Oct 21, 2020 00:56