|
Cleretic posted:I beat Persona 3 maybe twelve years ago, and I like to think I recovered emotionally, but you pull out those piano notes from Memories of You and I start tearing up so I don't think I have. For all of its faults, P3 is still my favorite at least in terms of the emotional impact edit: fffffuck the shirt sold out 
AlphaKeny1 fucked around with this message at 08:41 on Oct 16, 2020 |
#
?
Oct 16, 2020 08:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 13:59 |
|
|
Got a gift card for the Eshop as a gift so I bought SMT IV since it was only 20 bucks. Really want a physical copy but I couldn’t find one anywhere... this will end up being my first SMT mainline game. Anything to expect or recommendations before going in besides congrats on dying multiple times over?
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2020 22:43
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2020 22:58
|
|
|
If you are lost on the world map, there's no shame in looking up a map online. It's not very well designed.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2020 23:40
|
|
|
It's been a few years, but from what I recall- 1) There's no defensive stat so every fight is a game of rocket tag 2) Go for Dexterity over Strength if you're using physical 3) Talking to bosses can be beneficial, and when it's not beneficial it's probably hilarious. Just go up to an Archangel and try to shake them down for money, it's great. 4) Just look up a map online, navigating suuuucks. 5) Use status effects 6) Aways Be Fusing 7) When you're negotiating with demons, don't be afraid to 'refuse' or 'cheat' them, those fuckers were about to eat you anyway YggiDee fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Oct 19, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2020 23:48
|
|
|
Yeah SMT4 was my first mainline game too, I played through it a month or two ago. The advice given so far is pretty good. One thing that took me a while to understand is the battle system. I won't be using official in-game terms because I didn't bother to learn them, but you get a turn in combat for each fighter you have. So one for Flynn, three for your demons, a total of 4. They are signified as the icons of a stick person in the upper right corner. A collection of 4 turn icons between your 4 guys (NPCs that are with you do not contribute to this turn pool) Each of these turn icons has an opportunity to be "energized" or whatever, in that it can be used twice. This is done by using an enemy's weakness against it (so use an ice attack vs a fire monster) or by getting a critical. So you start with 4 turns, with the potential of "energizing" each of them for a bonus turn for each. Meaning a max of 8 turns per round. The game expects you to exploit this as much as possible. Personally I recommend speccing hard into magic and carrying a wide variety of spells so you can cover as many monster weaknesses as possible
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2020 00:08
|
|
|
So we're three-ish days out from Nocturne HD dropping in Japan, do we still not know if manual skill inheritance is in this new version?
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2020 20:08
|
|
|
ChaosArgate posted:So we're three-ish days out from Nocturne HD dropping in Japan, do we still not know if manual skill inheritance is in this new version? Then again, I probably need to get out of some of those lovely discords.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2020 20:18
|
|
|
I've been playing P5 Royal and I'm just past the bank. It dawns on me that I care a hell of a lot about the characters in this game than I do in just about any other RPG. Like, most of this game is social interaction with some combat and dungeon stapled on and I'm absolutely here for it. Which is super weird because most of the time it's the opposite. Which I think just speaks well of how good the game is. I dunno, random thoughts but yeah.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2020 20:25
|
|
|
Pretty sure manual skill inheritance would obliterate the difficulty of any SMT game you added it to that didn't already have it. As well as some of the games that do already have it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2020 01:49
|
|
|
Saxophone posted:I've been playing P5 Royal and I'm just past the bank. It dawns on me that I care a hell of a lot about the characters in this game than I do in just about any other RPG. Like, most of this game is social interaction with some combat and dungeon stapled on and I'm absolutely here for it. That is a big part of what makes persona games work.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2020 01:52
|
|
|
Cleretic posted:Pretty sure manual skill inheritance would obliterate the difficulty of any SMT game you added it to that didn't already have it. As well as some of the games that do already have it. Resetting fusions until they got the skills anyway is tedious, not difficult except for the times when in my groove i accidentally cancel the perfect combination
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2020 02:24
|
|
|
Artelier posted:Resetting fusions until they got the skills anyway is tedious, not difficult except for the times when in my groove i accidentally cancel the perfect combination The point is that you never get to pass on the exact "perfect" set of skills, you always have to make some compromises even when rerolling. E: Like, I can 100% honestly say that I've made some busted poo poo in golden/P5/SMT4 that I could never have dreamed to make in Nocturne. The line that you can actually get everything you want all the time by rerolling is just kind of insane. Saagonsa fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Oct 21, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2020 02:39
|
|
|
Saagonsa posted:The point is that you never get to pass on the exact "perfect" set of skills, you always have to make some compromises even when rerolling. I think they also never really intended the 'reroll for perfect skills' thing in older games anyway, they just threw in the 'random skills because you always have to compromise', and it wasn't until social media and stuff like Youtube got really widespread around Persona 4/Strange Journey that they learned 'oh, people will very happily spend hours resetting a skill screen to get the perfect skills instead of face marginally more difficulty for an imperfect build, and many people in fact think we intended them to do that'.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2020 03:13
|
|
|
I like manual skill inheritance and the demon whisper system, and I kind of wish the Nocturne remake had it, but it's probably better that it doesn't
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2020 03:13
|
|
|
Saagonsa posted:The point is that you never get to pass on the exact "perfect" set of skills, you always have to make some compromises even when rerolling. I hate that logic. If you want people to think about what they give demons then use the systems in Apocalypse or Royal that makes demons interesting and ensure that there isn't one cookie cutter skillset you aim to make that all your demons end up with.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2020 03:15
|
|
|
Hunt11 posted:I hate that logic. If you want people to think about what they give demons then use the systems in Apocalypse or Royal that makes demons interesting and ensure that there isn't one cookie cutter skillset you aim to make that all your demons end up with. I mean sure, there's ways to go about it that would be good. Just slapping on manual skill inheritance would not be the way to do it. I was mostly arguing against the line of "it doesn't make it harder just more tedious" which I see a lot and is kind of annoying
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2020 03:42
|
|
|
Adding direct choice skill inheritance and stuff like demon traits or whatever to balance it out would likely heavily rebalance the game. I really wish we didn't have to wait 6-ish months for a game that already has a complete English localization on the PS2, I guess it's due to the addition of voice acting. Item Getter fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Oct 21, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2020 03:46
|
|
|
Heres hoping SMT 5 has something similar in spirit to 4A with its demons.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2020 04:06
|
|
|
BrightWing posted:Heres hoping SMT 5 has something similar in spirit to 4A with its demons. It'd be surprising if it didn't, honestly. Atlus are abundantly aware that just going pure random in demon fusion doesn't work out, because all it encourages is mindless refreshing on a menu screen. But then SMTIV showed that going full manual and changing nothing else doesn't work either, so they need an actual system in place.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2020 04:34
|
|
|
Random skill inheritance wouldn't be so bad if skill weighting didn't exist.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2020 04:51
|
|
|
There have been some fairly successful compromise options used in the past. Devil Survivor had manual inheritance but with a shorter than normal skill list that was also divided into categories (3 actives and 3 passives per demon, including the ones they had by default). Persona Q2 had manual inheritance but with limitations on what can be inherited by whom (you can't give Agi to your Jack Frost).
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2020 07:59
|
|
|
Saagonsa posted:The point is that you never get to pass on the exact "perfect" set of skills, you always have to make some compromises even when rerolling. There are much better ways to design JRPG systems than make them down to chance though. If you want the player to compromise let them choose some slots and make others random, give skills a value that you can't exceed when fusing, let players pass down certain skills more easily than others. I mean thinking back to like, 1999 Final Fantasy 9 gave you a list of points you were allowed to spend on equipping abilities, and it went up as you leveled. Also introduces a cool wrinkle to where players have to think well do I want to be able to hit every weakness, or do I want to be able to hit 3 elements for more damage. This is somewhat achieved by having element boosts and all those passives The older random system usually meant you were just going in and out of menus over and over though, manual selection was just skipping like 15 minutes of dumb bullshit
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2020 11:43
|
|
|
THE AWESOME GHOST posted:There are much better ways to design JRPG systems than make them down to chance though. If you want the player to compromise let them choose some slots and make others random, give skills a value that you can't exceed when fusing, let players pass down certain skills more easily than others. All of this is right, nobody's refuting it, and it's why Persona 4 was more or less the last Megaten game to rely on purely random skill selection (or at least the last 'big one', I don't know exactly what the last one was). The idea of it was compromise, and it looked like it worked until the internet got big enough for them to realize that the thing people kept choosing to compromise on was 'their own time and enjoyment'.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2020 12:32
|
|
|
I'll have you know I gladly enjoyed my Nocturne Beelzebub that was immune to, drained, or reflected everything except Almighty. I basically had Masakados on a minion. But yeah, a big part of the fun for me is building my teams. Or being forced to work with what I have. The old systems do neither, since you can reroll forever. If it worked like in say, Fire Emblem where once rng is locked in for a decision, then I will just have to live with it. Or do manual inheritance like they do now, where there are rules to who can inherit what or what can be passed along
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2020 15:14
|
|
|
THE AWESOME GHOST posted:There are much better ways to design JRPG systems than make them down to chance though. If you want the player to compromise let them choose some slots and make others random, give skills a value that you can't exceed when fusing, let players pass down certain skills more easily than others. Yeah like I said there are better ways to do it, but the suggested fix of just slapping on manual skill inheritance and calling it a day is not it
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2020 21:08
|
|
|
Saagonsa posted:Yeah like I said there are better ways to do it, but the suggested fix of just slapping on manual skill inheritance and calling it a day is not it Points to SMT4A's 'every demon is good with certain skill categories and bad with others' system
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2020 04:39
|
|
|
Digital Devil Saga basically ran on giving you purely manual skill selection for your (relatively small) group of standard JRPG characters and the games weren't really any easier for it, just less tedious.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2020 04:41
|
|
|
Go back to demons having set skills and no inheritance
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2020 04:41
|
|
|
Cardiovorax posted:Digital Devil Saga basically ran on giving you purely manual skill selection for your (relatively small) group of standard JRPG characters and the games weren't really any easier for it, just less tedious. Dds and 2 were sleepwalks. Like a majority of smt games are but those ones are real bad for it
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2020 04:42
|
|
|
Is this one of those "lol, Dark Souls is a super easy game, you are all just babies" things?
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2020 04:46
|
|
|
Cardiovorax posted:Is this one of those "lol, Dark Souls is a super easy game, you are all just babies" things? MAKES U THINK. Junpei posted:Points to SMT4A's 'every demon is good with certain skill categories and bad with others' system 
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2020 04:54
|
|
|
Wark Say posted:In reality, aren't we all just big babies? I prefer grotesque manchild, thank you
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2020 04:59
|
|
|
Cardiovorax posted:Is this one of those "lol, Dark Souls is a super easy game, you are all just babies" things? No like you can autobattle through ninety percent of the games until the PS2 era.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2020 05:02
|
|
|
i think digital devil saga's habit of taking characters in and out of your party was bad, especially in 1 because it happened more frequently and also the way the mantra grid was laid out made it more difficult to get a good spread of skills for characters quickly.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2020 05:05
|
|
|
TurnipFritter posted:i think digital devil saga's habit of taking characters in and out of your party was bad, especially in 1 because it happened more frequently and also the way the mantra grid was laid out made it more difficult to get a good spread of skills for characters quickly. my party in two was the first three people to get killed it was hilarious. I had such lovely luck. honestly though it still wasn't too bad. the main bosses in dds weren't exactly threatening. the post game bosses were the only thing I really had to plan around
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2020 05:08
|
|
|
Cardiovorax posted:Is this one of those "lol, Dark Souls is a super easy game, you are all just babies" things? It absolutely, 100% is. SMT games are hard, but they're hard in a way that's really easy to understand and therefore to declare as easy. SMT, after all, is basically merciless rock-paper-scissors. Like Pokemon, if a single type disadvantage meant that you got brutally murdered, and also none of the enemy's types are telegraphed at all. That makes SMT an absolute ball-buster to do blind, but MUCH easier with foreknowledge, either through replays or just external knowledge. Which leads to people saying 'no, those games are easy' because they've either replayed them umptrillion times, or their first step when facing difficulty is to look at a guide. It's the same reason that you see a bunch of Final Fantasy fans around here claim that FFV is easy. No it's not, it has a million ways to punch you in the dick, it's just that everyone here who likes FFV has done the Four Job Fiesta seventeen times and so A: knows where all the dick-punches happen, and B: has all the cool combos memorized.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2020 05:11
|
|
|
Thought so. I remember how my first time fighting Meghanada in DDS2 was just a giant kick in the dick and I can only laugh that someone would call that game a 'total sleep-walk.' Actually beating a boss on the first try in those games felt like a real achievement.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2020 05:15
|
|
|
DDS is a cake walk compared to most SMT games because you literally never lose access to old abilites and can instantly swap out your whole build at the drop of a hat and easily get access to everything you need to cover you weaknesses AND the enemy's strengths. That plus just generally being less assholish with it's encounter design that Nocturne makes it kind of easy if you go in expecting SMT Classic Difficulty :TM:. It's a much much much more user friendly experience and since most of the difficulty in SMT games comes from just how little it gives you until you really get a grip on its pacing and rules it's kind a much easier experience than what came before or after it. All that is also true of FF5. Yeah a boss might kick your dick in but it's literally no cost to just swap jobs over and steam roll it now that you know it's tricks. Compared to say...FF4 where your bag of tricks is heavily restricted and limited at any given time so if you hit a wall you're just going to have to live and learn and try and squeak by with what you're given. And that wall is usually a demon wall. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Oct 23, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2020 05:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 13:59 |
|
|
"Compared" to most SMT games seems like it should be the operative term here.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2020 05:21
|
|