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KPC_Mammon posted:It looks like multiple man automatically puts into play all three copies unless this game has LotR's weird enters play / puts into play distinction. He's probably the ideal ally for tanking non-overkill hits. In fact on Multiple Man if you were Spider-Woman you could play Make the Call on another player's Multiple Man. Then you could pull 3 more Multiple Man out (assuming you have triskelion in play). Too complicated of a play to be reliable, but it is possible.
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Sep 24, 2020 23:29
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Fritzler posted:I believe Multiple Man will unless one copy is in the discard pile. You don't search there, so you can only play what you can find. Marge, are you keeping other men in this game? Multiple Men?!
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Sep 25, 2020 14:28
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Quicksilver was already a must buy for me because I love the character but Madrox as an ally... very hyped now.
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Sep 25, 2020 15:14
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Especially fun with people who shuffle cards from the discard back into their deck. But it means you’re not playing other allies If Madrox is around. If you defend successfully, stun the enemy… That’s amazing. It means that protection can be more than body blocking.
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Sep 25, 2020 16:11
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A Leadership/Protection Spider-Woman plan is forming in my head.
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Sep 25, 2020 16:12
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I got the core set and a few decks for Marvel Champions since it seemed really great from the vids I watched, but I cannot win a single motherfucking game against even Rhino and I do not understand. We've done several 2player games for Panther/Thor, Spidey/Hulk, Hulk/Thor, Panther/Hulk, have eventually lost when scheme poo poo catches up and Rhino will be around 15 to single digit health in his 2nd form. Latest game was going pretty well with Hulk/Spidey keeping poo poo low on schemes, Rhino down to 4 health on stage 1, and suddenly loving Bomb Scare, Hulk nemesis, and Breakin and Takin all loving come out. Two rounds later the scheme just couldn't be slowed down and it was a loss. I keep feeling like I'm missing something but we're not--everything we're doing is to the letter and yet in a 2 player game we cannot get a single win against the beginner encounter. It's just feeling like we spent money on a game that is hugely bullshit, I don't get it. Are Thor/Hulk just bad for Rhino? Are they largely meant for 3/4 player games??
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Oct 21, 2020 19:12
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DLC Inc posted:I got the core set and a few decks for Marvel Champions since it seemed really great from the vids I watched, but I cannot win a single motherfucking game against even Rhino and I do not understand. We've done several 2player games for Panther/Thor, Spidey/Hulk, Hulk/Thor, Panther/Hulk, have eventually lost when scheme poo poo catches up and Rhino will be around 15 to single digit health in his 2nd form. Hmm, are you putting the Nemesis cards into the deck when you start? That would make it harder, they're normally set aside unless you draw shadows of the past.
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Oct 21, 2020 19:30
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OurIntrepidHero posted:Hmm, are you putting the Nemesis cards into the deck when you start? That would make it harder, they're normally set aside unless you draw shadows of the past. not at all, Nemesis stuff I put aside. Obligation cards in the encounter deck, doing everything the Phase Reminder card tells us to do. Maybe we have the worst goddamn luck on the planet but the losses are just slow slogs wherein the beginning is promising and then suddenly one or two bad cards get drawn, alter ego turns to heal allow schemes to add up, and everything avalanches.
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Oct 21, 2020 20:02
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What sets are you running? Rhino is pure damage, so Spidey protection is a very good match. If the scheme overflows too much, you might want to run Black Panther justice as a compliment. You can also put in more allies to give you thwart in alter ego.
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Oct 21, 2020 20:16
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Golden Bee posted:What sets are you running? Just using the Spidey out of the deck, which is Justice and doesn't have too many allies come up. Hulk and Thor too, are Aggression out-of-the-box sets, have used Panther/Protection aspect. I figure since Rhino has a very low scheme number maybe Aggression heroes with low-to-no Thwart options could be why I'm getting beaten down so hard. The core deck gives you Marvel and She-Hulk stuff too but haven't tried those. I've read Thor/Hulk, as characters, potentially have issues in terms of Thwarting so maybe that's a factor, too.
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Oct 21, 2020 20:38
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Are you readying your characters at the end of the hero phase? I missed that rule the first few games and that had bumped up the difficulty a few notches.
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Oct 21, 2020 20:53
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Spiggy posted:Are you readying your characters at the end of the hero phase? I missed that rule the first few games and that had bumped up the difficulty a few notches. yeah, anytime I use any of the card values I exhaust and then ready before villain phase. Maybe I'm just somehow poo poo at this game, maybe we have the worst luck in the universe, but it's really disheartening we can't win a single dang game and my brother and I spent a lot of time/money getting all the cards lol.
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Oct 21, 2020 22:51
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Hulk and Thor is the WORST combination you could use, especially if you’re using them with their built in aggression aspect. They can push damage but require setup and don’t have great thwarting options. Thor is downright garbage IMO. He takes way too long to get going and his benefits don’t make up for drawbacks. Hulk is better but you might want to hold off until you have a slightly better grasp of what to play and when. Hulk shines when you know how to push your luck. He’s tricky to play, but has high rewards for being played well. If you’re dead set on using the one of them, I would pair them with a hero that is excellent at thwarting. My friend has an Iron Man Justice deck that absolutely slays because Iron Man can ready twice. Paired with Hulk or Thor dealing with the minions you should be able to manage everything fairly well. When playing with a less than powerful hero, don’t be afraid to take a hit so you stay upright, and don’t be afraid to flip to use the alter ego abilities and build your hand size if need be. Gotta work out so you’re both never in alter ego together. Spider-Man is okay as Justice but he has low thwarting so it’s not ideal for him. Again, try Iron Man, I also liked Captain Marvel as Justice as well. Also, keep an eye out on cards that have been played. Sometimes if you know that Shadows of the Past hasn’t come out yet and the encounter deck is limited, giving the villain a stun actually is a bad idea. If you see that both cards that let the villain scheme has been played, it will be very safe to flip to alter ego if need be.
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Oct 21, 2020 23:41
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The Black Stones posted:Hulk and Thor is the WORST combination you could use, especially if you’re using them with their built in aggression aspect. They can push damage but require setup and don’t have great thwarting options. Thanks for the insight! I figured I def should not mix Hulk /Thor on a deck like Rhino's wherein there aren't enough minions to justify Thor and between the two of them, there's no way to stop a 14-scheme situation that can VERY quickly reach the endpoint. So, we only tried that once and figured no way it'd work---at least, not with only 2 heroes. Thor being so lame breaks my heart--I love Thor but his shallow hand size and need to get upgrades just doesn't work very well. At least with Hulk, the hand size is somewhat justified when you can suddenly throw out a 13+ attack in one turn. Though again, Hulk with Spidey/Panther wasn't the most inspired pairing out of the box, but it was the closest we came to a win (Rhino stage 2 at 9 HP). I haven't used Iron Man or Cap Marvel yet---since the core set only has enough cards for 4, Iron Man didn't have a deck I constructed yet. But, I think I'll def try and put some cards onto him next. Hopefully next playthrough will go better and I'll avoid pairing Spidey with Hulk, while cutting off Thor from 2-Player games with Rhino for now.
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Oct 22, 2020 01:06
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Thor would best shine in a 3 or 4 player game, which unfortunately you don’t play. The other players tackle a lot of the threat and Thor could go apeshit. I think that was the intention. However, 2 player he just drags you down. You need Asgard to get a decent hand size, but Asgard costs a bunch so if you get it first turn your sacrificing a turn just to not have lovely draw. Defenders of the Nine Realms is a “hope I don’t screw us over card” especially with Rhino. You can accidentally discard 9-10 cards and then you pushed threat acceleration way faster than you ever meant to. So you only really should play it when you’re fairly confident you will get a minion soon. Stuff like hammer throw sending the hammer back to your hand also just means you’re slowing down a bit to deal damage because you now have to play the hammer again to not have poop main damage. He just wasn’t thought out very well. They stated in play testing he was really good that they had to build in some drawbacks and they waaaaay over corrected. I think they’re gonna air on the side of caution and just let heroes be slightly more OP than sucking cause it’s no fun when your hero sucks. It’s better just to make some modules that raise difficulty instead IMO. A lot of the game is really about hero pairings as well IMO. If I know my friend is gonna play a spider-man defence deck for example. I know he’s not gonna do much thwarting, but I know he’s gonna be able to pump out some okay damage and not have to flip. So now I’ll wanna compliment that with a hero that can thwart really well, but may have to flip more often because they’re more a glass cannon. I usually start my games by asking my friend who he feels like playing and busting out a deck based off who he plays. Sometimes I’ll ask to play a specific hero and he plays in relation to that. Once you get a good number of games in, you’ll be able to get a good idea of what heroes and aspects compliment each other. Don’t be afraid to buy packs from heroes that maybe might not be as cool. I’m not a huge Black Widow fan, but I love her for this game because she’s got a crazy good ability and card set.
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Oct 22, 2020 02:52
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I've had huge success with a heavily modified Thor deck courtesy of Team Covenant: https://marvelcdb.com/decklist/view/2250/thor-we-were-swingin-1.0 There's a more verbose description of the deck in the link but the short of it is using cheap cards and ready actions to swing and throw the hammer forever, and using Down Time to restore a ton of HP at once. Edit: Threat management is very low; pair with a justice or leadership hero to cover that. SettingSun fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Oct 22, 2020 |
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Oct 22, 2020 06:04
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update: we won first game! Used the out of the box Spidey/Captain Marvel decks. Marvel had a lot of threat mitigation and the myriad of snoop/resource generating cards helped a shitload, as did some well placed allies. Managed to beat Rhino with 7 HP each, scheme was on 12 so it was kind of do-or-die (all 3 decks were on their 2nd shuffle so there was an accelerator token in play). I think we lucked out a bit because Spiderman got Swinging Web Kick and Marvel had the Photon blast, which was more than enough to beat him on that turn. I think I'll just save Hulk/Thor for 3-person games, or at the very least games where the encounter deck is centered more on minion mitigation as opposed to the "rush" aspect of the Rhino one. I assumed all encounter decks had the same kind of thing i.e. small-value schemes but it seems like the other villains afford you more time in terms of the scheme length? I suppose that's why the core set recommended to use Marvel/Spidey's threat-mitigation-heavy decks against the quickpaced Rhino one. I have not used a Leadership hero yet so no experience on how that one works. Idk how Ultron/Klaw go but I'm just assuming all 3 are pretty different in terms of what decks you'd want to use? edit: also good tip on that Thor deck. I've been watching a shitload of Team Covenant and don't really see Thor there so to see that they had a win versus Goblin Heroic with that Thor deck in 2-player is pretty cool. Maybe our mistake was playing Hulk/Thor aggression decks out of box that were NOT suited for an encounter with such a tiny scheme threshold. DLC Inc fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Oct 22, 2020 |
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Oct 22, 2020 06:49
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Rhino is a little bit tough because he just has the one scheme. It’s not small but not big either, and when it’s done it’s done Klaw and Ultron actually have smaller initial main schemes, but now they have multi-tiered schemes. So if the first one fails, you have a second one so there’s still a chance you can win and now the villain has to push threat on the new one. Klaw, If you’re using the recommended encounter sets, is a lot different than Rhino. He has more minions; and his boosts are more swingy, and have a lot more effects. (They can force kneel you for example). So in this scenario a damaged dealer like Thor or Hulk does become better for even 2 player game because they can deal with the high HP minions a little easier. However, if you use one of them, you’ll definitely want a hero who can compliment on good thwarting. So pairing with Justice is a good idea, or a strong leadership deck. Iron Man is also good with leadership, a lot of heroes are actually pretty compatible with leadership because leadership is more about throwing tons of allies to the table so your hero can focus on doing what they do best and letting the allies soak up hits.
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Oct 22, 2020 14:20
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Yeah, honestly I think Rhino is bad for three or more players. I tried to teach my group with him and he just steamrolls too quickly while I sat there thinking I could take him down fine with just Spider-Man or Captain Marvel and wondering what went wrong.
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Oct 22, 2020 14:33
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pretty interesting how the deck considered the beginner deck for 2-players gets easier with 1 player but somewhat tougher with 3 or 4. I came into the game assuming things would be the same no matter the situation/deck/etc but now obviously I see the hero/aspect choice along with the encounter deck does really make a big difference in strategy. I guess that's why the game was designed with being modular in mind, so you can adjust aspects you use. Gonna try Klaw with 2 or maybe 3 players tonight, figure we'll use Spidey/CapMarvel/the suggested Thor deck for that one.
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Oct 22, 2020 17:17
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I teach new players with one handed captain America protection against Rhino. They always win and it takes 25 to 30 minutes. The rulebook suggest you try Capn Marvel/Spidey versus rhino. I think they’re pretty solid combo and marvel gets better the more and more expansions you get. Especially the red skull box, it drops like three or four new allies for her.
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Oct 22, 2020 17:23
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I find Rhino to be a joke at 3+ players. With 3 players, you have one player dedicated to Thwart, one dedicated to rear end-kicking, and one who bounces to wherever you're hurting. Rhino's scary reputation stems entirely from a massive Scheme swing, which can happen, but it's only scary if it happens N times in a row, where N is the number of players. It has decent chance of happening in a 1 player game. The likelihood of Rhino Scheming enough to scare three players is slim.
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Oct 22, 2020 17:41
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Golden Bee posted:I teach new players with one handed captain America protection against Rhino. They always win and it takes 25 to 30 minutes. I was stubborn and thought "Thor and Hulk, cool, I like them, they probably will smash through poo poo" and made that mistake without understanding there was a good reason to start with Carol/Spidey. You can smash poo poo, sure, but the scheme will beat you. Which makes sense when Hulk and Thor aren't exactly rocket scientists. I just really wish Thor had a 5-hand for Hero form; I never have drawn Asgard to mitigate his biggest weakness.
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Oct 22, 2020 18:10
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Thor's hand size of 4 completely cripples him. I've houseruled him to 5 and reduced the minion trigger thing to 1 card instead and he feels much better. Minions just aren't common enough to justify a permanent penalty to hand size unless you're playing vs. something like Ultron or the Mutant Gang version of Green Goblin. On another note, finally cracked open Rise of the Red Skull. Spiderwoman seems really strong. All her built in cards are bonkers, and then you also get to cherry pick the best cards out of two aspects. Granted I'm mostly soloing when I play right now (what with the pandemic and all) but at least for that she seems easily the strongest hero. She does everything and she does it well.
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Oct 22, 2020 22:29
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We just got through every villain with an Aggression Hulk and Protection Spiderman duo that pretty much never swapped back to our alter ego form after switching. It was a ton of fun just smashing poo poo knowing that Spiderman could block forever while drawing a massive hand. We had a few losses when we foolishly defeated the first phase of the villain turn one before spending some time setting up but with good play and deck building you can make teams that don't thwart often and just race the clock. I wouldn't suggest it for a new player.
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Oct 22, 2020 22:51
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had a 3 player game with Thor, Strange, and Spidey and maybe we were taking too long but Thor had like EVERY upgrade possible, had a tac van upgrading scheme threshold, and were doing pretty well all game---but around the time Rhino got to Level 2, a side scheme plus Vulture's scheme both came up + deck recycled + Sandman with Tough came out, pretty much ending the game when it was just not possible to stop the main scheme from finishing. Bad draw happened which was I guess more disappointing since Thor just got a shitload of major cards and Strange did too, ah well. I do like how Spidey Justice has a lot of stuff like the tac van and beat cop to just block off a lot of scheme stuff. Though it is a little lame going thru such a longass game and then we got bursted to death in 2 rounds of bad sidescheme pulls lol.
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Oct 23, 2020 00:56
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At a certain point, going fast is an advantage, because the encounter deck is random. And random things can swing in either direction. I think there should be a better scaling factor than villain gets XHP for each hero, I’ve never played a three or four player game and felt like it was the right length. It gets super draggy. Rise of red skull was fun with Kate bishop Hawkeye and spider woman, and loads of fun with punisher and Jessica Jones. They are available online in tts or print and play...And they really redefine minion busting and scheme development. They both feel “street level“, because they’re more effective when they handle their own issues (killing mooks for massive benefits and handling a ton of schemes at once.) Looking forward to Ant-man and the Wasp and their combo potential.
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Oct 23, 2020 07:56
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KPC_Mammon posted:We just got through every villain with an Aggression Hulk and Protection Spiderman duo that pretty much never swapped back to our alter ego form after switching. It was a ton of fun just smashing poo poo knowing that Spiderman could block forever while drawing a massive hand. Do you have your decks listed anywhere? Curious what your Hulk looks like versus mine and what you're using on your Spidey
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Oct 23, 2020 14:33
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DLC Inc posted:Do you have your decks listed anywhere? Curious what your Hulk looks like versus mine and what you're using on your Spidey I'm pretty sure Spider Man ended up looking like this: https://marvelcdb.com/deck/view/49285 The goal was to block twice each round, using energy barriers to trigger unflappable and desperate defense. Don't use energy barrier if it won't trigger unflappable, save your life, or kill an annoying minion. It's often worth hanging onto a desperate defense or backflip instead of using it as a resource since they give Spidey another block next turn which means another card as well. Iron Fist was almost never played and could be dropped against most Villains. Not all of them though, a few even gave Spiderman pause in expert mode. It can be tricky figuring out when you should stun and when to block. Stunning ends up being really expensive since it prevents you from drawing cards. Spiderman would usually end scenarios with only a few points of health, which is ideal, since health is just another resource to spend. Hulk started as a nearly pure fist resource all cost 1 and 3 deck and evolved into also having Power of Aggression x2, Skilled Strikes x3, Combat Training, Martial Prowess, Jarnborn, and Enhanced Physique x3 to make his obligation less terrible and smooth out his turns. edit: These were some of our most exciting games of Marvel Champions and I'm kinda sad retiring the duo. I can't wait for more villains to be released! KPC_Mammon fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Oct 23, 2020 |
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Oct 23, 2020 17:31
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The later protection cards really brought that aspect up from Core. Multiple cards that ready and give card draw after defending is just what they needed. My go to protection hero is Captain America, who can stack a consistent 2 retaliate and sometimes 3 with Energy Shield. He'll do more damage defending than straight up attacking.
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Oct 23, 2020 20:26
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Captain is the quintessential defense hero. Who needs extra cards when you can generate fists with your super soldier serum? But without electrostatic armor, he can be a bit grindy. It seems that protection cards just lower damage or give you an additional bennie for a perfect defense. I wonder how they can expand the genre.
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Oct 24, 2020 09:21
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Protection has the best healing, which lets you get a lot more out of allies which are already some of the best cards. It also has the ability to counter game losing treacheries with Get Behind Me and Black Widow. If you never need to switch to alter-ego you can often ignore the main scheme. You need to capitalize on the extra durability, though, I think both Protection and Justice can cause the game to stall and go on too long if you misplay them. KPC_Mammon fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Oct 25, 2020 |
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Oct 25, 2020 00:26
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Scarlet Witch article is up. Chaos magic seems like the best hero card we have ever seen. By far.
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Oct 29, 2020 17:59
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There’s a custom Emma Frost that put a card back on top of the encounter deck. Feels like a good duo.
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Oct 29, 2020 18:15
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that Scarlet Witch obligation card is so funny to me. gee do I want to exhaust my hero, or potentially put like up to 6 threats on a scheme in one go, which sounds insane especially when this is a character whose gimmick is eating up both your deck and the villain's. I guess they did balance it out by saying she gets TWO of those in a deck. I really like the overall gimmick though of disintegrating decks to power down the enemy attacks or being able to play the stuff you want from Wanda's arsenal. As far as new cards go, Crisis Averted seems incredible. Is it the highest cost-to-Thwart card to date?
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Oct 29, 2020 19:23
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In solo you would never want to do it, in multiplayer it’s not that big a deal
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Oct 29, 2020 19:26
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Golden Bee posted:In solo you would never want to do it, in multiplayer it’s not that big a deal I feel like it's equally balanced. In Solo, your don't want that Threat, but in 4P, you're actually going to go through the encounter deck a few times, so that acceleration is equally bad
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Oct 29, 2020 21:15
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DLC Inc posted:As far as new cards go, Crisis Averted seems incredible. Is it the highest cost-to-Thwart card to date?
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Oct 29, 2020 21:54
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I've always felt that the obligation card design is super boring and never really felt thematic with how it was implemented. The decision doesn't even feel interesting because my group never really encountered a time when choosing to exhaust and remove the card wasn't the obviously better option. Maybe we just didn't get deep enough into it.
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Oct 30, 2020 20:25
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| # ? May 13, 2024 02:02 |
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Exhausting is ALWAYS the better option. The card exists so if you can’t exhaust it will screw you. Sometimes on situation and hero you will want to maybe do the other option so you don’t flip but since you can just flip back anyway doesn’t matter. I hope they do more with it like they did The Hulk. You can’t remove his obligation from the game. No matter what it will do something bad to you. They need to do more of that.
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Oct 31, 2020 00:49
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