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twistedmentat posted:Where the aliens at the space bar the same ones that dumped toxic waste in Voyager, Mailons I think they were called? I think those dudes had bigger nostrils and something on their forehead. I kept thinking the guys in the bar looked like a race of alien Jason Clarkes.
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Oct 23, 2020 22:00
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twistedmentat posted:Where the aliens at the space bar the same ones that dumped toxic waste in Voyager, Mailons I think they were called? No, they're Coridanites. Somebody said it once during the scenes.
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Oct 23, 2020 22:05
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https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/CoridaniteHD DAD posted:It’s interesting in the preview clip for next week’s episode, where the burn is explained by not all the dilithium exploding, but by it all suddenly going inert for some reason. This negates its regulatory properties, which naturally then makes warp cores go boom. Slightly more coherent than “dilithium just exploded”. If they went inert, they must have regained their properties again because that's the entire basis for why warp travel still works and why they're valuable. It's very scary that a cosmic blip just happens where matter certain matter stops behaving for a few minutes.
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Oct 23, 2020 22:06
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I’m just picturing an entire galaxy full of Starfleet ships that still haven’t nailed down that whole eject the warp core sequence.
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Oct 23, 2020 22:39
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lol look at this Jason X looking design 
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Oct 23, 2020 22:48
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xerxus posted:https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Coridanite Dilithium doesn't make warp travel possible. It makes warp travel using anti-matter as an energy source safe and easy.
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Oct 23, 2020 23:00
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Retrowave Joe posted:I’m just picturing an entire galaxy full of Starfleet ships that still haven’t nailed down that whole eject the warp core sequence. Obviously this is just blind speculation since Star Trek has usually played fast and loose with the specifics of warp, but the ability to dump the core usually implies that you still have some kind of containment and the breach is imminent. Whereas if the dilithium just goes inert you suddenly have an unregulated matter/antimatter reaction and poo poo blows up pretty much instantly. So it kinda works as presented in that preview if you just handwave it a bit and take for granted that it happened mostly because the plot needed it to happen.
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Oct 23, 2020 23:00
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Retrowave Joe posted:I’m just picturing an entire galaxy full of Starfleet ships that still haven’t nailed down that whole eject the warp core sequence. i mean, depending on when how exactly it went down you may not have had any time at all to eject - like, it would sound plausible if the failures were so rapid and catastrophic the ship's computer had no way of knowing and responding before the reaction is consuming bulkhead and crew edit: yeah what BMJ said
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Oct 23, 2020 23:01
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Even if they did eject, you'd have crews trapped in ships light years away from any help, stranded in ships with little power, possibly even damaged if they couldn't get away from the ejected cores in time. So basically a million distress calls and no working ships to reach them unless Ben Sisko came back to build more sail ships
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Oct 23, 2020 23:13
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blastron posted:Very much enjoyed the second episode, though I kind of wish they'd have flipped the order of the first two. Totally agree with this. Them getting out by themselves and finding Michael's dead suit would have been a good ending to this one.
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Oct 23, 2020 23:19
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HD DAD posted:I really don’t think Detmer got AI-possessed. I’m pretty sure that was just debris on the floor that was scattering, too. Detmer seemed super concerned about the guy that died in sickbay in a “oh god did I cause that” kinda way. Pretty sure this season is gonna have her learning to get her groove back after falling into space depression.
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Oct 23, 2020 23:21
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UnquietDream posted:Found it (spoilers for what I assume are the first moments of the next episode): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0yhyo-fds8
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Oct 23, 2020 23:38
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Oct 23, 2020 23:42
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Detmer's got ptsd, she's not AI possessed. She was flying the Shenzhou (with two good eyes) when Michael started a war and got most of the crew killed or disabled. Her head injury was in a similar spot to the one that caused her to need an implant. And the person who helped her through her feelings about cybernetics last time (Airiam) is dead. Hopefully it's leading into the ship acquiring a counsellor. While I buy that Lorca wouldn't allow a counsellor on board, and Pike was too temporary to make that sort of decision, the crew is full of people with lots of issues. Grand Fromage posted:If they removed Mirror Georgiou entirely and had Michael recede into the ensemble I think the crew would work. They could even take some time to like, develop the half of the bridge crew that we still know nothing about in season 3. The Black dude, the Asian dude, the big head insect alien, uh... not sure who else is on the bridge. At least Detmer and Owo have had a bit of time. If they stopped trying to push Michael as a main character and having her involved in everything the show would be much, much stronger.
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Oct 23, 2020 23:43
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Grand Fromage posted:If they removed Mirror Georgiou entirely and had Michael recede into the ensemble I think the crew would work. They could even take some time to like, develop the half of the bridge crew that we still know nothing about in season 3. The Black dude, the Asian dude, the big head insect alien, uh... not sure who else is on the bridge. At least Detmer and Owo have had a bit of time. Nope sorry, you tried to give Discovery some credit there. Describe Detmer and/or Owo's character. e: I'm not sure it's quite a Star Trek specific problem that Discovery and Picard and to a slightly lesser extent Lower Decks are all single-character focussed stories. The reality of today's television is one of 10-episode season arcs following an overarching narrative, with tends towards focusing on one or two protagonists rather than cycling through an ensemble cast. It does lead to something that struggles to feel like Star Trek, and I think that one of the reasons Lower Decks captures that feeling (despite all the other issues I have with it) is that even in 22 minutes it plays with the ensemble better than Discovery does. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Oct 24, 2020 |
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Oct 24, 2020 00:06
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In the interest of not completely crapping on Mirror Georgiou/Space Hitler 's existence, I will say: her empress outfit was one of Discovery's best designs IMO
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Oct 24, 2020 00:10
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Alchenar posted:Nope sorry, you tried to give Discovery some credit there. Describe Detmer and/or Owo's character. Their names have been mentioned several times. Owo has a past with primitive technology. Detmer has a lot of guilt from the Shenzhou. I'm not giving Disco credit, I'm saying they have failed to characterize anyone on the bridge beyond Michael, Saru, and Tilly. Now that they're in season three they could at least like, give the Black and Asian dude names and jobs. I think they're comms and tactical after seeing the latest episode? You don't have to do that with the whole bridge crew, but if you're going to decide "well, these two aren't important" then IMO you make those rotating characters. If we're seeing the same person on tactical every episode, we're going to assume that is a real character who should be discussed, like in every other Star Trek show. There have always been background bridge extras but they were always clearly unimportant since you only saw them once. Neurolimal posted:In the interest of not completely crapping on Mirror Georgiou/Space Hitler 's existence, I will say: her empress outfit was one of Discovery's best designs IMO She was perfectly fine and fun in the mirror universe, she just didn't need to be on the Disco crew.
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Oct 24, 2020 00:41
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I too love boob armor.
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Oct 24, 2020 00:43
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Grand Fromage posted:Their names have been mentioned several times. Owo has a past with primitive technology. Detmer has a lot of guilt from the Shenzhou. They characterized Airiam then immediately killed her
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Oct 24, 2020 00:44
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 oh no
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Oct 24, 2020 00:47
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:I too love boob armor. I dont think ceremonial armor for a space queen needs to be battle-efficient. I imagine the robes dont afford her a tactical advantage, either.
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Oct 24, 2020 00:52
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Grand Fromage posted:Now that they're in season three they could at least like, give the Black and Asian dude names and jobs. I think they're comms and tactical after seeing the latest episode?  
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Oct 24, 2020 00:53
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Strong Convections posted:Hey now, don't you remember the touching words Captain Pike had about each individual on the bridge as he was leaving the Discovery last season? i skipped most of season 2 so this is new to me, LMAO
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Oct 24, 2020 00:55
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Grand Fromage posted:You don't have to do that with the whole bridge crew, but if you're going to decide "well, these two aren't important" then IMO you make those rotating characters. If we're seeing the same person on tactical every episode, we're going to assume that is a real character who should be discussed, like in every other Star Trek show. There have always been background bridge extras but they were always clearly unimportant since you only saw them once. That's certainly not always true. To pick a couple examples off the top of my head that actually got to say a line now and then, Ensign Gates appeared in forty-six TNG episodes, and Mr. Leslie appeared in fifty-seven TOS episodes, more than Nurse Chapel. e: Here we go, found Memory Alpha's page on recurring characters. Turns out there are a whole bunch of them that racked up a staggering number of appearances: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Recurring_characters Powered Descent fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Oct 24, 2020 |
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Oct 24, 2020 01:16
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There's also Ayala, who seems to appear in the background of every Voyager episode.
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Oct 24, 2020 01:19
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They're stuck in a situation where they love the actress but the character sucks. Solution: have the warp phase  zap her in the head to get Starfleet Georgiou. But she cuts the welcome back party short by locking herself in the brig. See, she's wrong, she knows she's wrong because Space Hitler is still there in her head. When Saru attempts to defer to her she forbids it for that reason, she can't ever be in command. Still it's the loving future so all hands on deck so she's Ms. Georgiou and she takes up whatever bridge job she's been doing.And boom, the character is now mostly in line with the values of the crew but it makes sense to send her on away missions and there's a justification for her to go be the kung fu cowboy they want. There's avenues for personal growth and internal conflict (like how do you cope with knowing you had the capacity to be space Hitler and what if some of the things she's saying in your head make sense?) Saru gets the pressure of having his mentor looking over his shoulder and everyone has to be constantly questioning her motives.
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Oct 24, 2020 01:22
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answer is simple. transporter acident that revises the character so she plays the character from episode 1 from now on.
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Oct 24, 2020 01:24
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Both of the above are fine fixes, but the problem is that no one working on the show apparently sees any issue having the character around.
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Oct 24, 2020 01:25
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after realizing that mike mcmahan had written it, i just went back and watched the escape artist short trek - mudd really has been a highlight of discovery somehow; anyway, it was funny
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Oct 24, 2020 01:26
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Alchenar posted:Nope sorry, you tried to give Discovery some credit there. Describe Detmer and/or Owo's character. Owo ... also had screen time.
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Oct 24, 2020 01:26
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shades of eternity posted:answer is simple. I think you need to have a reason why she can't be the captain or it fucks with Saru's growth. He would absolutely turn Discovery over to Vanilla Georgiou.
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Oct 24, 2020 01:26
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Oct 24, 2020 01:33
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Bringing back Vanilla Georgiou through Empress Georgiou would be a bit too convoluted, I'd rather they just found a way to throw her back in time for the Section 31 show that nobody's going to watch. I dont mind the role they want her to play (she's basically just Garak with less Spy and more Murder), it's just that her character's background is.....extremely morally repulsive in a way that nobody on the ship should be tolerating.
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Oct 24, 2020 01:35
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I'm genuinely interested to see how the inevitable scene of Burnham looking up Spock in any historical archives and learning of his accomplishments plays out.
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Oct 24, 2020 01:45
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Arquinsiel posted:The character suffers because it's the Michael Burnham Show This is so true of every character. I've said it before in the thread but Airiam should have been the one to go to the mycelial network last season, not Michael - it'd make sense story-wise as she'd be less at risk to be eaten, and it would have been a good opportunity to learn more about her and connect with her before they killed her off a couple of episodes later. Michael is the third wheel in the Stamets-Tilly friendship. The time loop/Harry Mudd episode should have been focused around Stamets. The Terralysium episode should have been a jointly focused Owo-Pike episode, he's new to the crew so asking about her backstory makes sense. Why is Michael there? Her character is the least human-acting human on board by design. Send Bryce down, presumably communications officer means they have some communications skills, not just that they know how to press buttons. Saru fares a little better, but his two focal episodes (the communications crystal episode and his home planet episode) spend way too much time on Michael, and not enough on him.
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Oct 24, 2020 01:50
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I think those dudes had bigger nostrils and something on their forehead. I kept thinking the guys in the bar looked like a race of alien Jason Clarkes. Yea, the Malons are more pig aliens. Neurolimal posted:In the interest of not completely crapping on Mirror Georgiou/Space Hitler 's existence, I will say: her empress outfit was one of Discovery's best designs IMO It's the most Warhammer 40k looking thing I'd ever seen IRL. I like Michael as a character, but yea she should not be the focus of everything and be the most special person in the universe at every moment. It's like the last Capaldi season of Doctor Who, everything started to be about Clara. Star Trek is an esamble show, even if TOS was mostly focused on Kirk, Spock and Bones, it at least didn't ignore the rest of the crew. TNG worked the best, you had episodes about Riker, Picard, Crusher, Data, Worf, Geordi and Troi. DS9 did this too, even Voyager did it. I think Enterprise was fairly even, though I remember it being more TOS with most stuff being about Archer, T'pau and Tucker, i don't remember Reed, Merryweather or Hoshi getting a lot of focus, but at least they were there and you knew who they were outside of their jobs. Discovery is real bad for this. Everything is about Michael. Saru, Pike, Stamets and Tilly are there, but they are very clearly second banana, and they exist almost exclusively to help Michael do whatever special thing she needs to do. The rest of the crew barely have names and nothing outside of their jobs. Once and a while you get something but there isn't an episode exploring Detmers daily adjustments due to her robot parts. This might be because there are only 10 episodes and because they want to tell a certain story that they can't spend time on the secondary characters internal lives. But that doesn't mean they have to only focus on Michael. I always get this sense in recent TV that someone in the writers room created a character and they are convinced they have created a great, classic character. The next Captain Kirk, Lenny Brisco, Dale Cooper or Don Draper; a character that will become a cultural icon and last beyond the show. But, they haven't, though they are in a position to ignore the facts and just force their character to be everywhere, unbeatable and the bestest person ever. A good example of this is Diaz in Arrow. A bad villain who was meant to be a regular criminal but somehow was utterly unbeatable and literally controlled everything and no one could go against him. I feel like both Michael AND Evil Georgiou are this. The show needs to be about them, they must be at the center of everything and the solution to all the problems! I can understand wanting to keep Michael Yeoh around but at least give her something more interesting to do than try to take over every situation with dark edgelord solutions.
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Oct 24, 2020 02:39
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Georgiou isn’t omnipresent to an annoying extent. And unlike most of the rest of the cast there’s actually a relationship between her character and Michael (which the show has done a bad job exploring, but it has actually tried to). The problem with her is just that they had Michelle Yeoh signed up and they couldn’t do nothing with her, and they couldn’t get rid of both her and Isaacs because they’re the most famous cast members. So they kept her on and we gotta be treated to evil Georgiou every year now. They should have more Georgious imo. Dimension hopping Georgious of various temperaments band together to defeat evil Georgiou
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Oct 24, 2020 02:52
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twistedmentat posted:I always get this sense in recent TV that someone in the writers room created a character and they are convinced they have created a great, classic character. The next Captain Kirk, Lenny Brisco, Dale Cooper or Don Draper; a character that will become a cultural icon and last beyond the show. But, they haven't, though they are in a position to ignore the facts and just force their character to be everywhere, unbeatable and the bestest person ever. I get a sneaking suspicion that this can all be blamed on contracts. SMG is probably a pay grade higher than the rest of the cast, so they’re obligated to make the show revolve around her to some extent, since it was probably negotiated when she was the entire focus of the show. Yeoh probably signed onto a multi-year deal too, so they have to keep her around until they can move her to the Section 31 show.
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Oct 24, 2020 03:06
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HD DAD posted:SMG is probably a pay grade higher than the rest of the cast, Even knowing full well who this is my mind is saying Sarah Michelle Gellar? SARAH MICHELLE GELLAR!?
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Oct 24, 2020 03:15
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"Evil murderous tyrant and cannibal Georgiou" is already an idea they completely dumped after the first season, the second season pivoted to treating her as "chaotic Captain Georgiou" who was often deliberately exaggerating her attitude. The difference so far is while in season 2 she was moderated by Pike, Cornwell and even Burnham's mother and at times openly shown as having at least some of Georgiou's positive qualities, in this episode she's just purely butting heads with Saru and only barely backing down to him She doesn't even do anything evil, she's just impatient, in opposition to a character everyone is going to side with against her and doing the "Starfleets ideals are naive" thing. She wasn't even wrong, it would have been a good idea to shoot that guy.
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Oct 24, 2020 03:19
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