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Jeez. I'm starting to wonder if they're gonna release a tweet of me being in this 24 hour long film. EDIT: Yucky snipe. To add onto villain team discourse I think part of why people would like it to be at this leg of the MCU is because we can skip a lot of clunky establishment. It can be done. I'm not saying it couldn't. I'm just saying we can get more quickly to how neat it might be to see Falcon fight The Vulture when those two characters and what they're about is already taken care of for us. I have to admit I'm vaguely aware of who the Thunderbolts are, but I don't actually know what separates them from Suicide Squad. Are other heroes aware of them? I have to imagine comics Cap would be wildly not ok with a government approved villain team. I recognize this was a point of discussion in Civil War, but it's been 100 years since that story and I feel like they existed before that. SonicRulez fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Oct 23, 2020 |
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Oct 23, 2020 22:13
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SonicRulez posted:Jeez. I'm starting to wonder if they're gonna release a tweet of me being in this 24 hour long film. Seriously worried I’ll get too drunk and accidentally end up in Justice League without realizing it.
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Oct 23, 2020 22:14
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SonicRulez posted:Jeez. I'm starting to wonder if they're gonna release a tweet of me being in this 24 hour long film. Thunderbolts comic spoilers: When the Thunderbolts first showed up, they were introduced as a new superhero team, and at the end of the first issue it’s revealed that they’re really the Masters of Evil, being led by Baron Zemo, trying to hoodwink the public.
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Oct 23, 2020 22:32
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Seriously worried I’ll get too drunk and accidentally end up in Justice League without realizing it. Zack Snyder enters the wrong acronym into google and instead of a BvS flashback he includes a BSS flashback.
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Oct 23, 2020 22:43
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It gets a lot of crap, but I really like the setup in Andy Diggle's run on Thunderbolts. It's right around the time of Dark Reign, and while he has his team of Dark Avengers, Norman Osborn also has his team of awful bastards for more black ops stuff. The flexibility is one of my favourite things about Thunderbolts, especially from about Civil War onwards. Civil War Ellis run had them as the shady government-controlled team of villains. Dark Reign had them as awful bastards in service of a supervillain, and then after Siege it was a more standard Dirty Dozen scenario with Luke Cage leading a bunch of them to redemption. If they do make a D+ series of it then it could run and run pretty comfortably, especially if they can find ways to introduce unseen characters like Songbird without it being too jarring.
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Oct 23, 2020 23:06
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SonicRulez posted:I have to admit I'm vaguely aware of who the Thunderbolts are, but I don't actually know what separates them from Suicide Squad. Are other heroes aware of them? I have to imagine comics Cap would be wildly not ok with a government approved villain team. I recognize this was a point of discussion in Civil War, but it's been 100 years since that story and I feel like they existed before that. When they were initially introduced it was in the aftermath of a big event where a lot of the classic hero teams had disappeared. So it was Baron Zemo trying to take advantage of that to get a fake hero team and get a bunch of secret assets, money, prestige, etc. Since then they'd done a bunch of different setups though where they're like chipped "heroes" or actual repentant supervillains trying to do good.
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Oct 23, 2020 23:07
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From Dark Reign on the T-Bolts book was a lot of fun and I miss it. As far as Super Villains on tv we're getting the HBO Max Peacemaker show and supposedly several other film spinoffs.
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Oct 23, 2020 23:12
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thebardyspoon posted:When they were initially introduced it was in the aftermath of a big event where a lot of the classic hero teams had disappeared. So it was Baron Zemo trying to take advantage of that to get a fake hero team and get a bunch of secret assets, money, prestige, etc. Since then they'd done a bunch of different setups though where they're like chipped "heroes" or actual repentant supervillains trying to do good. It was a genuine surprise too. This was pre Bleeding Cool so you had to work to find out the twist. Worked really well.
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Oct 23, 2020 23:28
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Dawgstar posted:It was a genuine surprise too. This was pre Bleeding Cool so you had to work to find out the twist. Worked really well. or read wizard. god, i cant believe i bought those
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Oct 24, 2020 00:06
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Fangz posted:I guess I just think back to all the superhero movies ruined by trying to jam in too many villains (i.e. Spiderman 3) and wondering how that would work if you are doing that and also trying to jam in character development for a full superhero team at the same time. If a 41 page comic and 24 minute tv show managed to make the Sinister Six work I don't see why a movie couldn't.
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Oct 24, 2020 00:48
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SonicRulez posted:Jeez. I'm starting to wonder if they're gonna release a tweet of me being in this 24 hour long film. Just wait for the Extended Edition!
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Oct 24, 2020 01:05
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Lurdiak posted:If a 41 page comic and 24 minute tv show managed to make the Sinister Six work I don't see why a movie couldn't. How many episodes setting up the Sinister Six in that 24 minute TV show were there, and did the episode in question feature an actual arc for the protagonist like a good movie needs to? Same question, but for the comics.
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Oct 24, 2020 02:07
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I mean...either way, just because it hasn't been done before isn't a reason not to try, particularly if the concept is cool and interesting enough.
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Oct 24, 2020 03:13
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Guardians of the Galaxy happened, guys.
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Oct 24, 2020 05:16
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When the Fatal Five showed up in Bunheads to ruin the big recital I feel like most fans just rolled with it.
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Oct 24, 2020 05:19
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Aphrodite posted:Guardians of the Galaxy happened, guys. Also like... hundreds and hundreds of ensemble films since the beginning of the medium. I don’t understand why comic movies have such a problem with it. Watch one Robert Altman movie. There isn’t a Nashville Cinematic Universe.
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Oct 24, 2020 05:47
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Unmature posted:Also like... hundreds and hundreds of ensemble films since the beginning of the medium. I don’t understand why comic movies have such a problem with it. Watch one Robert Altman movie. There isn’t a Nashville Cinematic Universe. "A bunch of dudes get together and do a heist" and such are much simpler, familiar set ups than most comic book stuff has. So you have to not only establish characters like Altman stuff, but powers, origins, and then whatever weird comic book bullshit they're doing. Guardians is the exception not the rule for this stuff because it realizes that most of that poo poo I listed doesn't matter or can be gotten across from context. The problem is I don't think most people look at this poo poo the way Gunn does, and even when they try to rip him off we get original Suicide Squad and it sucks and still falls into all those traps.
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Oct 24, 2020 07:56
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Literally the only problem with superhero movies that have too many villains is the pile of origin stories and conflicting story threads that jumble together, if they are all on the same team and do not get stupid origin stories there is no problem. The lack of imagination in this thread is embarrassing.
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Oct 24, 2020 09:25
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Sure but I already asked about the likes of the Black Order and people wanted something different to that. I guess people want all of these villains to be villains in their own right? Which sort of implies that there needs to be added context and so maybe origin stories. Otherwise there's lots of films that already count.
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Oct 24, 2020 09:43
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Vince MechMahon posted:"A bunch of dudes get together and do a heist" and such are much simpler, familiar set ups than most comic book stuff has. So you have to not only establish characters like Altman stuff, but powers, origins, and then whatever weird comic book bullshit they're doing. But why? In Lord of the Rings there was not a lengthy part of the movie dedicated to explain Gandalf's or the Balrog's powers or origins. All the explanation you got was "this is some bad poo poo but maybe I can slow him down for a while".
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Oct 24, 2020 10:29
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Well if that's the case Age of Ultron is a supervillain team up movie.
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Oct 24, 2020 10:34
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Fangz posted:Sure but I already asked about the likes of the Black Order and people wanted something different to that. I guess people want all of these villains to be villains in their own right? Which sort of implies that there needs to be added context and so maybe origin stories. Otherwise there's lots of films that already count. I think the difference is, the Black Order just appear with no explanation as to who they are apart from "Thanos regards them as a big deal." Of all of them, only Maw is given any sort of personality or motive. And that's fine (even if the source material has lots of great stuff to work with.) But in the movie, Glaive and Cul were just glorified CGI threats with little to make them stand out. If you want a film to be "this team of heroes versus this team of villains" you need the bad guys to have a personality. You don't need to spend a film fleshing out each and every one (though it is a bit of a shortcut) but even if you do that scene from every hiest film where the boss has all the crooks sit around a table and introduces them, that would work. It's the difference between "the Flash fights a CGI fire monster" and "the Flash fights Heatwave. Armed bank robber with an unstable temper but a ruthless cunning."
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Oct 24, 2020 10:41
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Okay I was being a little glib earlier, but the concept really is not hard to understand and y'all are completely overthinking this in really weird ways. A story where a lot of big-name, prominent, recognizable, high-tier villains come together to form a far more dangerous threat than any that the heroes have faced before is simply going to have a different, bigger impact than a team of D-list minions doing D-list minion things. Especially if these characters usually come from different series or franchises that don't usually get the chance to interact. Dr. Doom joining forces with Magneto and Kang the Conqueror is going to be a bigger deal and a cooler story than...hold on yo I have to look up their names...Corvus Glaive and Ebony Maw doing whatever they do. It just is. It's literally just, take the concept of the Avengers or Justice League but with bad guys. Where did we lose y'all?
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Oct 24, 2020 11:14
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I guess I'm just not super convinced it would necessarily work in a moving picture medium. Doing it in comics is different in how you can organise things and how time compression works and how probably readers won't get confused even if you are cutting between different people fighting. I'm not even sure it escalates the threat because while before you had people like Thanos able to hold off all the heroes at the same time, if you have a big team up battle essentially you have to have the heroes able to beat the villain they paired up against on their own. On paper it might sound cooler to you but I think it kinda actually deflates the gravitas of some of these villains to me.
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Oct 24, 2020 11:22
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Fangz posted:I guess I'm just not super convinced it would necessarily work in a moving picture medium. Doing it in comics is different in how you can organise things and how time compression works and how probably readers won't get confused even if you are cutting between different people fighting. I'm not even sure it escalates the threat because while before you had people like Thanos able to hold off all the heroes at the same time, if you have a big team up battle essentially you have to have the heroes able to beat the villain they paired up against on their own. But villains like Loki or Ultron or Thanos only work in the films because they have a massive horde of mooks. There are there to act as an ablative shield. While Thor is hitting Loki in the face, what is Hulk doing? Smashing a sky snake or something. It means the story can easily have a one on one scene between a hero and the villain without straining credibility. It also means you can do a brief moment of Thanos fighting a bunch of heroes at once before they are thrown away and have to fight mooks again. If you don't you end up with that scene on Titan where the heroes all just littarly dog pile on Thanos to try and defeat him. But if there is an equal number of Masters of Evil to Avengers, you can just do one on one fights. And as long as each villain is distinct and recognisable (which was the big mistake in Shazam. All the seven sins looked near identical. They didn't even make them bright primary colours.) The audience will be able to follow each fight.
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Oct 24, 2020 12:06
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The Question IRL posted:But villains like Loki or Ultron or Thanos only work in the films because they have a massive horde of mooks. The thing about mooks is that they are an amorphous mass so if Black Widow is smashing a mook in the face it's exciting but not really important, vs if the heroes are fighting a Boss Enemy and you actually have to keep track of the progress of the battle, who is losing and winning, and so on. If you have multiple boss type enemies and you are cutting between these different fights all happening, you wind up mookifying what would in a one-on-one fight be much more of a clear and interesting battle.
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Oct 24, 2020 13:21
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Fangz posted:I guess I'm just not super convinced it would necessarily work in a moving picture medium. Doing it in comics is different in how you can organise things and how time compression works and how probably readers won't get confused even if you are cutting between different people fighting. I'm not even sure it escalates the threat because while before you had people like Thanos able to hold off all the heroes at the same time, if you have a big team up battle essentially you have to have the heroes able to beat the villain they paired up against on their own. I think in a movie it could be quite simple. Open it up with a crime scene featuring Boomerang or Kite Man or whoever your audience-insert protagonist is, the crime goes wrong, they get arrested, maybe we get some expository background info here (the one phonecall to a loved one, the hard-boiled detective reading off the charges and background info of the character, etc.) and then, once in [insert comic book high security super-prison] they meet the other characters. We don’t need to spend a lot of time here, think of Guardians of the Galaxy. We don’t need a whole sequence explaining who these people are, we get that they are birds of a feather with the protag. From there the plot unfolds. (A scathing satire of the school-to-prison pipeline and carceral industrial complex)
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Oct 24, 2020 14:05
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All that these tidbits really boil down to is "make a good film." I know for a fact that there were people who were saying at the time that an idea like Guardians of the Galaxy, starring the worst Chris, would never work. Hell, I'm sure there were people who were certain, once upon a time, that the Avengers as a concept would never work. I mean, the alternative is that we just keep on doing...the exact same sorts of villain beats that we've always been doing, give or take some variations on a theme. Where's the value in that? Why not utilize the tools at your disposal to try interesting things? And besides, there's no guarantee that a film is good just because it stuck with the same old one-on-one solo villain dynamic, which is why I mentioned that it's weird to overthink something like this. "But what if it's bad?" Well, the general hope is that any film we want to see made would be handled with skill and care, no matter how challenging the premise might be. BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Oct 24, 2020 |
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Oct 24, 2020 14:06
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Guardians 1 and 2 are still basically Star Lord movies. For both heroes or villains movies can have a ton of characters but they will follow one or two. Sinister Six will be about Dr. Octopus or Osborn or Vulture and the rest will be along for the ride. Brotherhood of Evil Mutants is Magneto's team. Comic book fans are the ones least able to imagine comic book movies because they are attached to the characters before they ever appear on the screen and feel the characters need equal weight and attention and respect when they do appear but it rarely if ever works that way.
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Oct 24, 2020 17:18
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Apologies if this brings things close to Snyder chat but does WB think the Snyder cut will actually course correct and lead to more sequels? The money they are throwing at it is absurd and it sounds like it will be a completely different movie. Do the execs think the only reason JL underperformed was because there was not enough Snyder? Like, what are the plans going post Snyder cut.
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Oct 24, 2020 20:02
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I think they’re basically helpless at this point. I think they agreed to it thinking, like Disney with New Mutants, they’d just slap some finishing touches on it and release it for a quick cash/attention grab. Then Snyder’s fans and the Internet Hyperbole Machine ground ponderously back into action, and Snyder saw an opportunity to capitalize on it all and basically kitchen sink the re-shoots, and now WB and HBO are along for the ride whether they like it or not.
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Oct 24, 2020 20:09
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Assuming viewers paid for just the one month to watch jl, how many new hbo subscriptions does wb need to break even on a $70mil project
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Oct 24, 2020 20:15
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site posted:Assuming viewers paid for just the one month to watch jl, how many new hbo subscriptions does wb need to break even on a $70mil project At 15 bucks a sub, 4.6 (repeating) million. Assuming they directly register with HBO and aren’t like me with it attached to a Hulu account costing them a cut.
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Oct 24, 2020 20:18
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It would be kind of funny if Snyder just kept making it longer and more expensive and finally they had no choice but to fire him and hire someone to finish the job. But yeah, I think they thought this would just be an easy bonus thing to throw on the streaming service and draw eyes and good will. And now they're financing some mega mini series somehow.
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Oct 24, 2020 20:22
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STAC Goat posted:It would be kind of funny if Snyder just kept making it longer and more expensive and finally they had no choice but to fire him and hire someone to finish the job. Then in a few years they’ll talk about doing the Snyder Snyder Cut
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Oct 24, 2020 20:27
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Justice League: The Snyderer Cut
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Oct 24, 2020 20:32
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STAC Goat posted:It would be kind of funny if Snyder just kept making it longer and more expensive and finally they had no choice but to fire him and hire someone to finish the job. justice league: the snyder cut - the max landis re-edit
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Oct 24, 2020 20:36
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I feel bad for the "There's a Suicide Squad Director's Cut too" guy.
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Oct 24, 2020 20:37
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site posted:justice league: the snyder cut - the max landis re-edit snyder cut - the max landis re-edit -The Girl Talk remix
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Oct 24, 2020 20:48
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WB hires Greg Berlanti who immediately casts Melissa Benoist, Grant Gustin, and Stephen Amell for a power of love resolution.
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Oct 24, 2020 20:54
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